Arrius engine 15yr life limit rescinded

[as350nut]

Has anyone heard the rumor that Bell has convinced Turbomeca to abandon the 15 yr time life for the Arrius engine install for the 505;if so does that mean that the same will happen for the EC120 version?

[widgeon]

So is a 2002 ec120 virtually worthless ? There seem to be quite a few on controller

[krypton_john]

The Arrius will go back to 0.0 TSO and 15 years on rebuild....

[CRAN]

...but of course, it is rather expensive. :eek:

[as350nut]

Sorry I think I haven't explained the idea correctly. The word is that Bell has negotiated with Turbomeca to remove the necessity to carry out the 15 yr and rely on hours in service and condition for overhaul times. This would be a huge game change for the 505 as this was a major drawback in the change from the Jetranger /Allison no time limit setup to the 505. So if that is true does it follow for the 505/ Arrius engine to the EC120 Arrius engine, logically I would have thought it would. If that is the case maybe the 120 will have a new appreciation.

[Loki696]

If I stand correct, TM dropped the 15 yrs inspection for Module 1 and upped the one for Module 2 to 16 yrs for the Arrius 2F on the EC10

[as350nut]

So have had engineer tell me again that no calendar on Arrius 2F, have sent email to Safran Sydney so will report outcome

[as350nut]

Ok So here is the info from Safran,

For the Arrius 2 series of engines, the 15yr calendar limitation on the module 1 has been removed. The module 2 has a Level 3 calendar inspection to be carried out, where the module 2 is dis-assembled and the bearings replaced. This can only be carried out in an approved Safran Maintenance Centre.

A fixed price for this inspection on the module 2 of 72,100.00 Euro. This covers the reset of the 15yrs, labour, SRP, tech report and quote.

A step in the wright direction :) if you have a high calendar engine but done low hours, which many ec120 are

[John R81]

I understand from engineers that the Module 2 inspection (15 yr) is subject to max 10% extension, so could actually by 16.5 yr.

[claudia]

guys/gals. A Fixed price quote from Turbomeca!!!! Send your engine in,
say your prayers and wait a very long time. Then they will double, maybe
triple your quote or more!!! For sure when they have your engine and by now your 72000euro they will find many issues, bill you and want payment immediately, long before the work is done.-- nice.







,

[as350nut]

John R81
Yes SL 2996/17/ARS2 confirm 10 % extension



Claudia
My experience on repairs and overhauls leads me to agree with you, whilst the fixed price bearing replacement may well be fixed, -- for the bearings -- what happens if a wheel is worn? It seems to me that a turbine wheel that may say have a thousand hours remaining and is serviceable often gets replaced. Then you are offered an overhauled wheel with a few more hours, but at a huge cost.
But give credit where it is due at least this is a start in a better direction, I suspect Bell is driving a better outcome for the engine in the 505.

[John R81]

And in the UK, you no longer need to send the engine back to France - it can be serviced in the UK, reducing transport costs and time.

as350nut - yes, the fixed price is for defined work. If they find something else wrong then it is extra.

[Salusa]

And TM will find something. Guaranteed.

Great engines when in operation, but when it breaks or you send to factory then $$

[toptobottom]

And TM will find something. Guaranteed.


Not quite fair actually. My 120 engine, having previously had its 15 year calendar inspection extended by 2 years, recently went down to Fareham. I asked Safran if I could visit and view my engine while it was in bits and I was quickly extended an invitation.
I was warmly greeted on arrival and first given a tour of the facility, which included being introduced to the technician who was working on my engine. He showed me each serviceable and non-serviceable component; I was expecting to be told that anything in less than perfect condition would need to be replaced. The reality however, was very different. The team at Safran was very pragmatic and apart from a T4 harness and manifold nozzles (due imminently anyway), no other parts were necessary. My total bill was around 80k euro. A fellow 120 owner had been through the same process a few weeks previously and had nothing more to pay (the fixed price for him was 70k euro; it went up to 72.5k euro for me, which will be the price for all 2F 15 yr inspections).
I was very impressed with everyone I met at Safran, who were both helpful and friendly - nothing was too much trouble and a potential engine issue post re-installation was immediately jumped on by the guys who worked on my engine, incase it was something to do with them (it wasn't).
At 72.5k for a few bearings and seals, it's still a very expensive, but don't presume that it's an opportunity for the owner/operator to be ripped off, as nothing is further from the truth.

[heliturbo]

I bought a 2003 EC120 last january 2017, went tru the 12 years maintenance
and the TM - USA 3000 hours or 15 yr Turbine overhaul, they were very Professional and transparent, they finally lived by their estimate, altough they had changed some parts, the beauty of my machine is that it has a calendar reset zero time engine, on which I put about 100 hour without the slightest snags....

I heard the the change were upcoming but I think if you reaches 3000 hours you still have to go with the full overhaul????

the delay were a bit longer then expected.....they took 21 days to find a suitable box for shipping from Montréal.......

I would redo the excercice in a hearthbeat, I truly enjoy the EC120, after 1000 hoir in a R44 II, a nice machine, but different world

[toptobottom]

The 2F still needs an overhaul at 3k hours; this was just the 15 year calendar inspection. Safran has a box and the turn around for me was about 10 days in total. Said fellow 120 owner experienced a similar turnaround.
Agreed re the 120 experience - I think it's a great machine! :ok:

[fokkerpilot]

So the Bell 505 still require module 2 overhaul after 15 years of operation regardless of hours in operation (if less than 3000)?

[homonculus]

Correct, although a 10% extension seems fairly common on the 120 so look for 16.5 years. That puts a bit of a dent in the economy claims....

[juszs]

Does anyone have an idea of what the overhaul costs are likely to be near-term on a 2003 EC120, with engine M01 time at 2600 hours but with M02 time at 1150 hours (M02 module was previously replaced due to an incident)..? I gather this would mean M01 TBO would be up at 3000 hours, but with lots of hours left on M02, it would only be done at 15 - 16.5 years..?

[kiwi_andy]

What is the service life of an Arrius 2F?
I believe its 15 years, but wahat about the hour limit, and the number of Ng/Np cycles

[homonculus]

At 72.5k for a few bearings and seals, it's still a very expensive, but don't presume that it's an opportunity for the owner/operator to be ripped off, as nothing is further from the truth.

I think this depends on your definition of value for money. It is a simple continuum from cheap to fair to expensive to rip off. Many may have a different opinion no matter how nicely they take your money.