85250HKD to live in Honkers?

[Tricia Takanawa]

Hi,

HKA are offering the above figure for FO's, inclusive of housing. On paper it looks pretty good, but I also know that Hong Kong is one of the most expensive places on the planet. How far will this figure go? Family with 2 kids.
Also, does anyone know how much education allowance HKA offers?

[kiwicx]

Here we go again.... standby for incominggggggggg

[3Greens]

Mate, that amount doesn't go far in Cheshire (uk), let alone Hong Kong.

[TSIO540]

It's very lean.. take off:
15k in tax
35k rent
6-10k per kid in school if you can afford the 6 figure debentures and hold out on the waiting lists
15k in food
And then you can invest what's left..

You can cheap out on rent but it won't be fun. Vis was so bad today that you could barely see the other side of the airport.

[Tricia Takanawa]

Thanks. As I thought but always worth asking.
Re not much to live in Cheshire. You should try living in the South East, flying for the flag carrier! Almost double my net pay!

[Trafalgar]

$85K / mo. Other than being single and with a roommate, you will be barely surviving. The best way to figure out the 'value' of a pay package in HK is to basically compare it to half as much in your home country. So, $85K equates to about 3200 gbp / mo. Best to join Easyjet,BA or Virgin. Even Ryanair will see you putting more money in the bank. Don't be fooled by the 'number' quoted in HK (like many of CX's more junior pilots have been). The cost of living here is exorbitant (the highest cost city on earth!), and there is NO airline in HK paying enough to live comfortably on. If you have a wife or children, run, don't walk away from any offer they make you. It will probably lead to the destruction of your family.

[bringbackthe80s]

I think for those of us knowing central London well enough (I mean South Kensington London), I' d say Hong Kong would be like living there + around 20%.
Having said that, it' s still a good adventure so if you're interested go for it. Some of us take life waaay too serously, the experience will be priceless for your kids too.

[azhkman]

I'll give you my numbers:
Rent: 28k (Tung Chung, new building ~1000 real sq ft)
Schooling: 18.6k (6.2k x 3 kids in one of the local private schools)
Live-in Help: 12.4k (5k x 2 for 2 live-in, 2.4k for one part-time)
Groceries: 10k (spend on average 2.5k week)
Utilities: 4.6k (3k electric, .5k gas, .4k water, .7k internet / TV)

Taxes comes to about 15% of your gross, but you can deduct 132k for your wife (assuming not working), and 100k for each child off your gross income. My wife works so the costs do not impact us as much. But honestly, it is the air that is doing me in. My littlest was at the doctors office 10x last year with 'colds'.

You could probably save some by living in Caribbean Coast, and being judicious with your A/C in the hot months. If your wife does not work, you could save on your helper costs, but you get the idea.

It's a decent place to live, but harder since the girls came along and our days our numbered I can feel it. I've been here over 10 years and lived in all different neighborhoods, but with kids Tung Chung is pretty good. I like that I can come and go as I please unlike when I lived in Discovery Bay.

If you're confident you can land a role back home in 3-5 years, I would recommend it--as long your are certain of your expenses going in. It's a decent base to travel around to the region, and your kids will have friends from all over the world and they can take some time to learn Chinese to put them ahead of the kids back at home when they return.

[Air Profit]

And waste that many more years off of a proper seniority list, AND cause harm to your childrens health (but they'll be 'ahead') :ugh:

[Threethirty]

He works for BA, he's already said that above.

[Apple Tree Yard]

Yes, we hire only the best. :ooh:

[ANTIPHOLUS]

And he’s a she. Unless Tricia is a boys’ name ?
Ahead of the kids back home ? Thankfully not to much use for Mandarin ( unless you plan on joining the Swire Group ) back in Blighty...yet !

[Tankengine]

I'll give you my numbers:
Rent: 28k (Tung Chung, new building ~1000 real sq ft)
Schooling: 18.6k (6.2k x 3 kids in one of the local private schools)
Live-in Help: 12.4k (5k x 2 for 2 live-in, 2.4k for one part-time)
Groceries: 10k (spend on average 2.5k week)
Utilities: 4.6k (3k electric, .5k gas, .4k water, .7k internet / TV)

Taxes comes to about 15% of your gross, but you can deduct 132k for your wife (assuming not working), and 100k for each child off your gross income. My wife works so the costs do not impact us as much. But honestly, it is the air that is doing me in. My littlest was at the doctors office 10x last year with 'colds'.

You could probably save some by living in Caribbean Coast, and being judicious with your A/C in the hot months. If your wife does not work, you could save on your helper costs, but you get the .

I don't doubt HK is expensive, BUT: when you add on "helper" costs of 2 live in servants and 1 part time as a normal thing you are comparing apples and potatoes.
In many parts of the world this would be impossible. In HK you have CHEAP servants!
How many BA or Qantas pilots have live in servants at home?

[OK4Wire]

Tank,

It's not about wanting servants, its about making your life manageable.

I'm not going to go into the why's and wherefores. Can't be assed.

[TSIO540]

I don't doubt HK is expensive, BUT: when you add on "helper" costs of 2 live in servants and 1 part time as a normal thing you are comparing apples and potatoes.
In many parts of the world this would be impossible. In HK you have CHEAP servants!
How many BA or Qantas pilots have live in servants at home?

You're right, they don't generally have servants like in hk... BUT it also doesn't take 5 hours to do an errand in town, they can jump in the car and park next to where they're going. Helpers in hk are a necessity if you want any leisure time or play time with your kids as even the most basic tasks like putting the recycling out can take 20 mins once you wait for two elevator trips with other residents who will look you in the eye at 4 paces and press the close door button on you!

[raven11]

Helpers hired by a married couple with children in Hong Kong, are what daycare is to a couple with children back home...there are no daycare facilities in Hong Kong.

[Captain Dart]

...or wholesome, English speaking 'girls next door' who can pop in for the occasional baby sitting.

[azhkman]

Exactly, if we had day care, we wouldn't have helpers. Another reason added in the leave column. The part-time helper is because the school they attend is assisted, since we are at work, we needed a third person to take them to school. Once they reach the right age, we can let the part-time helper go--she wants to marry her internet boyfriend in Pennsylvania anyways.

The errands is also true--imagine driving and parking where you need to go and easily bringing your kids with you?

And by getting ahead, if you think Swire is the only company that does business with China, I think you're very shortsighted. They could go into finance, agriculture sales, etc.... I met an Irishman here who learned Chinese to help him import Whiskey to the mainland from his HK base. Unless the dream is your child working in the NHS or cashier at Tesco, it will create an undoubted advantage for them.

Now, I didn't realise the opening poster worked at BA. That makes a difference. If you view the airline as a career, or being a pilot as a career (and accept what comes with that mindset), there is a distinction.

[Oval3Holer]

You colonialists and your servants... now you call them "helpers" to feel better about yourselves. Disgusting.

[Air Profit]

What would you like us to 'call' them. Don't want snowflakes such as yourself being hurt and fretful. :rolleyes:

[Oval3Holer]

No snowflake here. I was raised to not live in such a way that I couldn't do what's necessary for myself and my family without having a helper or servant.

[Captain Dart]

...and my 'servant' was treated damn well and paid extra than what the locals would have paid. She was treated as one of the family. My wife worked as well and we arrived in HKG with two small children. Don't gob off about 'colonialism'. Most domestic helpers are employed by Hong Kong Chinese. The salary we paid her bought her a house in the Philippines and supported a large number of indolent relatives.

You are just as much a 'servant' flying, I presume, Swire's aircraft for a salary.

[fishball]

canada's a much better place for the servant - for one you get pr

[Oval3Holer]

You are just as much a 'servant' flying, I presume, Swire's aircraft for a salary.

Absolutely. That's why I fully understand the experience of oppressive colonialist treatment and I don't like it.

As for the Hong Kong Chinese being the employers of most domestic helpers, might that be due to the fact that 92% of the population of Hong Kong is Hong Kong Chinese? Or, maybe it's because they take after their former colonial masters?

[cabbages]

[QUOTE=Captain Dart;9934662]...Don't gob off about 'colonialism'.

Perhaps Oval comes from a place where they are far more comfortable taking about wicked colonialists than they are about, i dunno, say..........imperialism.

[sewerpiper]

So I was an HKA FO for 3 years living on that salary (its actually about 90-95K) and it wasn't that bad. Its not something you want to do for a long period of time, but were we (two kids and a wife) suffering? No. We bought a car and moved to a small village in south lantau. Tung Chung is not a place you want to live, unless you like living in a tiny concrete box in the sky. We had two stories of a home plus a rooftop for 20K. I have no regrets and would still be there if it weren't for a few things like the horrible upgrade process and the bad environment for my family. Met a lot of great people and the experience there got me a fantastic job back home, something I will always be grateful of HKA for.

[Oval3Holer]

:) You flew the Metroliner?

[Trafalgar]

Curtain. THAT is a funny comment. :ok:

[Killaroo]

So I was an HKA FO for 3 years living on that salary (its actually about 90-95K) and it wasn't that bad. Its not something you want to do for a long period of time, but were we (two kids and a wife) suffering? No. We bought a car and moved to a small village in south lantau. Tung Chung is not a place you want to live, unless you like living in a tiny concrete box in the sky. We had two stories of a home plus a rooftop for 20K. I have no regrets and would still be there if it weren't for a few things like the horrible upgrade process and the bad environment for my family. Met a lot of great people and the experience there got me a fantastic job back home, something I will always be grateful of HKA for.
Talk about back handed compliments! That post takes the biscuit.

[Gnadenburg]

So I was an HKA FO for 3 years living on that salary (its actually about 90-95K) and it wasn't that bad. Its not something you want to do for a long period of time, but were we (two kids and a wife) suffering? No. We bought a car and moved to a small village in south lantau. Tung Chung is not a place you want to live, unless you like living in a tiny concrete box in the sky. We had two stories of a home plus a rooftop for 20K. I have no regrets and would still be there if it weren't for a few things like the horrible upgrade process and the bad environment for my family. Met a lot of great people and the experience there got me a fantastic job back home, something I will always be grateful of HKA for.


Can I ask did you insure yourself and your family ?

The DPA strongly advises members to insure themselves due a long, sad litany of tragic events affecting pilots and their families. Health care is inadequate and may bankrupt you. As could loss of licence.

The cost is about $10,000 USD a year unless the HKA or the pilots union has strong insurance policies for pilots? The subject rarely gets a mention, though every year I've been here, there's more than one event where pilots are crippled financially due poor insurance cover.

Of course, it can't happen to me.......or my wife, or my kids.......

[OMAAbound]

Slightly off topic

But it Seems that HKA are attempting to recruit the ex-MON guys.

A few of my friends (single) have interviews with them on the roadshow at the end of Nov. Handfuls have never visited HK and don’t really know what they’re letting themselves in for.

The lure of heavy metal, and the possibility of playing with a new A350 is just too much of a sweetener

[Killaroo]

Yeah - and let them know that HKA have just made their second default on pilots pay in six months.

[Metro man]

The trick is to leave with the same woman you arrived with. Avoid catching “yellow fever” or having the wife and maid swop roles if you want to leave with any money at all.

Once you go Asian........

[Trafalgar]

...."having wife and maid swap roles..." :D

[Foxdeux]

I see that a lot in HK, they're always the pale white guys from Australia or Britain. Was at Repulse Bay for vacation and saw one of them making out like no one was watching smack dab in the middle of the beach. If I didn't know any better I would've thought they were making a porno. I wonder what Uncle Xi thinks of HK.

[azhkman]

I wonder what Uncle Xi thinks of HK.

Not much, he's made that abundantly clear.