Stop now FAA, it all too much!

[Lying Dutchman]

Before i start. I like America and Americans, but the FAA whats going on. With the removal of jumpseats and every other restriction, being imposed is it not time that JAR or the CAA or whoever runs Europe stood up and said enoughs enough, rather than following suit like a lost puppy.
jump seat passengers are invited by the flight deck. Most of the time, after approval from managment anyway. So why stop it, i dont move lunatic circles, but if i did, could i not buy the nut a ticket, and then open the flight deck door and let him/her in? Do they really need to be there for take off?I guess we will have no control of the locks soon if Mr bush and the FAA have there way! As for pilots and guns, well maybe JAA will say no to this and American carriers wouldn't be allowed into Europe unless they met our rules....No silly me it only works one way doesn't it?

[erjdriver]

1st. Jumpseating is allowed by most airlines - you just can't seat in the cockpit unless your ID can be verified (i.e. you are a pilot/FA working for the airline or subsidiary you want to jumpseat on). Remember that the purpose of jumpseating is to commute to/from work. Also, the jumpseat is reserved to pilots, FAA inpectors/examiners, company dispatchers...an I think that's about it (a pax cannot occupy the jumpseat)

2nd. US carriers which fly to the EU meet ICAO requirements.

Better know what you're talking about before posting.


PEACE

[mutt]

erjdriver,

Be careful in what you say, the FAA still has a direct effect on Jumpseats and non-operation crews to the USA. We are presently banned from sending non-operational crew on flights to the USA, that includes jumpseaters in both both cockpit and cabin seats.

Can you show me any requirement that FAA airlines must have a type rated FO in the right seat for flights to Europe.... ICAO dictates that they must, FAA doesnt.........

Have a good day now...................... :)

Mutt.

[A-V-8R]

I'm really getting tired of posting and having flames licking at my feet, but...in the US FAA ops...

I think the F/O has to be typed on the aircraft when the flight is augmented. Over eight hours 2 engines, over 12 4 engines. He might have to make some decisions while the Captain is waking up.

I know that my airline types all pilots in International operations....except carribean and mexico flying.

[Cathar]

I know that the FAA has reminded its industry of the ICAO requirement and that it must be complied with on international flights. I understand that co-pilots flying to the UK are all type rated. If anyone knows different I suspect that the CAA would be very intersted to receive the details.

[TowerDog]

F/Os on the 747-100/200 does not have to be type rated. On twins they do. (Over 8 hour legs anyway)

Keep in mind that in the UK/Europe, everything is a "Type Rating", even a F/O check out on a heavy, or left seat on a Twin-Otter.
In the US, a "Type Rating" is a captains rating if added to an ATP and a "Type Rating" is required on any civilian jet and/or on any craft over 12,500 lbs/5,700 kgs.

Have heard that the Brits need a type rating to fly an Aztec, that true??

(I think the above sums it up, but my info could be a few years old, have tickets from 4 nations and sometimes I get confused..:D :

As for jumpseats, the system in the USA is unique, don't think any other nation has a similar setup where a commuting pilot can get a free ride.
(Old Pan-Am was great to me many a times: Capt would say: Have a seat in First Class young man and have dinner and drinks on me!)

It helps to have the proper union card and usually scabs need not apply.

[erjdriver]

Mutt,

you're right, I should have specified that the jumpseat policy I mentioned is validin the USA (I thought that was the issue discussed). I don't know how it work in the EU.

If you read FAR 121.437 and 121.721 you'll see that the SIC must be typed. So that answer your question.

By the way, I've had jumpseaters from ElAl, BA, and SwissAir, but when I asked to jump on a BA flight from LGW to VCE, the crew gave me a dry "no" answer. Same for Alitalia.

I guess we US pilots are too nice sometimes...certainly MUCH nicer than our European collegues.

PEACE

[FoxHunter]

I flew as both a DC8 and B747 F/O for Seaboard World, Capitol International, Flying Tigers, and Evergreen. No the FAA does not require the F/O to be typed but the training required, and the F/O check ride really is no different from a type. You just don't have the piece of paper.

[CD]

Actions such as this may also be one of the reasons for the start of this thread:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
APA 25-02
June 17, 2002
Contact: Alison Duquette
Phone: 202-267-3462

United States Sets Deadline for Foreign Airlines to Meet Flight Deck Door Standards


WASHINGTON – U.S. Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta today announced that foreign airlines must install new flight deck doors on aircraft serving the United States by April 9, 2003. Foreign airlines must also install temporary locking devices within 60 days of publication of the rule in the Federal Register.

On Jan. 15, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) published new standards for flight decks doors to protect airline and cargo crews from intrusion and small arms fire or fragmentation devices, such as grenades. More than 6,000 U.S. airplanes will have new doors installed by April 9, 2003. The major U.S. airlines voluntarily installed near-term modifications to reinforce doors soon after Sept. 11, 2001.

“President Bush and I remain committed to a safe and secure aviation system that will encourage Americans to travel,” said Secretary Mineta. “Assuring the security of the flight crew is critical not only for the safety of American passengers but for international travelers as well.”

The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) recently said that its 187 member- countries would install doors that meet security standards similar to those adopted by the FAA but not until November 2003, seven months after the FAA deadline. There is no ICAO requirement for near-term fixes to flight deck doors.

“Many foreign airlines have already reinforced their doors,” said FAA Administrator Jane F. Garvey “The FAA will continue working with foreign aviation authorities around the world to keep passengers and crew as safe as possible.”

Beginning on Oct. 9, the FAA issued a series of regulations that allowed near-term door reinforcement to be carried out as soon as possible by providing airlines and cargo operators with temporary regulatory relief. The FAA understands that many foreign governments are prepared to grant similar temporary relief from their corresponding standards.

The FAA estimates that 1,921 foreign airplanes will need to be retrofitted. There are a number of doors that meet or exceed the requirements of this rule. Depending on which door is chosen, the cost of this rule will range from a low of approximately $40.9 million to a high of $80.2 million.

The FAA’s final rule is available at www.faa.gov/avr/arm/nprm.cfm and will be published in the Federal Register.

[erjdriver]

FAR 121.437
No pilot may act as pilot in command of an aircraft (OR A SECOND IN COMMAND OF AN AIRCRAFT IN A FLAG OR SUPPLEMENTAL OPERATION THAT REQUIRES 3 OR MORE PILOTS) unless he holds an airline transport pilot certificate and AN APPROPRIATE TYPE RATING for that aircraft.

Also, in order to certify a carrier to fly certain routes, the FAA requires crewmember to undergo certain training, and in some routes the SIC must be typed.

I've jumped to Europe a couple of times on US airlines, and in both of them the FOs were typed. Most carriers have 2 FOs and 1 CA, so how can the CA take a brake if the FO is not rated (I don't know if that can be done)?

PEACE