Qantas to get 737 MAX and '797'?

[MelbourneFlyer]

Latest from the QF junket Seattle, AusBT reports QF is looking to the Boeing 737 MAX (no sub-type specified) and the middle-of-market 'Boeing 797' for domestic flights with the 797 also geared towards Asian routes,. In other words, 797 would replace the A330s.

Joyce also says he's no longer planning to run Boeing 789s on domestic routes, this was the plan from a few years back, which has to call into question if Qantas will ever make good on its 45 'orders and deliveries' for the 787 (almost certainly not!).

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-eyes-boeing-737-max-boeing-797-for-domestic-fleet

[maggot]

To replace 330 Asian routes? If only Qantas had an aeroplane on order that was the same dimensions as an a330-300 like a 787-9 eh

[maggot]

Re the 73 max; is it still like the old 737s systems/mechanically? Or just shiney screens and calling it good :rolleyes:

[CurtainTwitcher]

Is that really correct? From a little further down the article:
Qantas CEO Alan Joyce says the airline "we will do a competition between the Airbus A320neo and Boeing 737 MAX to replace our Boeing 737 fleet probably within the next few years", although the airline's long-standing investment in the Boeing 737 makes Airbus a rank outsider in the pageant.

The bold is a direct quote saying that no decision has been made, the italics is speculation from the journalist.

[neville_nobody]

What happened to the massive A320 order made for Qantas/Jetstar Asia?

Not sure why you would be considering the 737 Max over the 320 NEO. The Neo is a far superior aircraft in many respects let alone cabin comfort and size.

[AerialPerspective]

What happened to the massive A320 order made for Qantas/Jetstar Asia?

Not sure why you would be considering the 737 Max over the 320 NEO. The Neo is a far superior aircraft in many respects let alone cabin comfort and size.
I'm not so sure about that, I've traveled extensively on both and frankly I find the A320 whiny and uncomfortable. For me however, one of the advantages of the A320 is the ability to carry ULDs... it would mean there would be no need to retrofit magic carpet in the holds and make for quicker turnarounds (as long as if they choose the A320neo they don't do the monumentally stupid thing Ansett did and pay more to have the IHS taken out...!!!) and provided the A330 work is absorbed by a newer widebody and to some extent, the 320, then there shoudn't be a massive need for additional GSE at key airports.

[GA Driver]

What's the IHS??

[puff]

Apparently the containers are not as awesome as they appear at first glance, as the weight and bulk of the containers take a lot of room up and reduce the amount of freight both weight and volume wise that can be carried. For carriers that don't carry much freight, not such a big issue, but apparently you can squeeze in a heap more bags/freight into a non container bus.

[SandyPalms]

I understand that a full compliment of containers is around 800kg just in the containers.

[Keg]

Qantas in Seattle to take delivery of shiny new jet. Asked about future 737 replacement, of course the CEO is going to talk up the many Boeing options. Across the Atlantic Airbus will have heard that loud and clear. Someone buried deep in 'the campus' is no doubt is working the numbers on the various options and updating the spreadsheet on a month by month basis but Joyce's comments are gamesmanship and the report by Ausbt is simply filling space. I suspect a decision is not even close to being made et alone announced.

[GA Driver]

I understand that a full compliment of containers is around 800kg just in the containers.
There's a fair bit to the container loading system, adds around a tonne to the aircraft EW.
The containers themselves are nowhere near 800kg for a full fit. The 'generic' weight of an AKH container is 80kg but in reality, some are canvas, some are Aluminium so when they're weighed they're usually less than half that amount.

[wondrousbitofrough]

What's the IHS??

Thats a perfect example of a TLA...

[AerialPerspective]

What's the IHS??
In Hold System (IHS)

[AerialPerspective]

Apparently the containers are not as awesome as they appear at first glance, as the weight and bulk of the containers take a lot of room up and reduce the amount of freight both weight and volume wise that can be carried. For carriers that don't carry much freight, not such a big issue, but apparently you can squeeze in a heap more bags/freight into a non container bus.
True but you don't have the potential for so many physical injuries (backs, etc.) - although magic carpet does reduce that significantly.

[Ken Borough]

Thats a perfect example of a TLA...

What's a TLA. Has it (or they) anything to do with aviation?

[Capn Bloggs]

GHTA....... :ok: (BTW that's a FLA).

[Nepotisim]

What's a TLA. Has it (or they) anything to do with aviation?
Yes it has. Its a Three Letter Acronym.:)

[SeldomFixit]

Would be interesting to compare the turn around times, with and without IHS. Time is money. IHS possibly requires less bodies during a turn.

[Eaglet]

What's a TLA. Has it (or they) anything to do with aviation?

Thrust lever angle :8

[patty50]

Would be interesting to compare the turn around times, with and without IHS. Time is money. IHS possibly requires less bodies during a turn.

Qantas have the magic carpet in both the front and back. Virgin have them only in the back. Virgin have 30 min turns and Qantas have 35 min.

On manpower I think QF have 1 or 2 additional ground staff than Virgin for a 737. I think jetstar can get away with only 3 staff on a turn and no pushback driver.

Bag chuckers aren’t really the bottleneck in a turn unless there’s a lot of cargo. Usually getting the passengers off and on is.

Containers drastically reduce the number of hands a bag goes through per movement from 3 down to 1.

No idea about weight but probably significant. JQ I think put 5 (capacity 7) on every flight to ensure there are enough around the network. Each weighing 60-80kg.

[Maxmotor]

The drive belts and components on the so called magic carpet fail on a regular basis where most of the assembly requires removal to gain access for repair so not so magic in the end after all.

[LeFrenchKiwi]

No idea about weight but probably significant. JQ I think put 5 (capacity 7) on every flight to ensure there are enough around the network. Each weighing 60-80kg.

JQ carries a full fit or nearly full fit on nearly all bus flights, including empties. That can't be good. JQ also still has and uses Aluminium AKHs, which are a lot heavier than the canvas ones everyone else seems to use. Can't recall the exact weight of the aluminium ones, (it's somewhere in th vicinity of 80kg) but the canvas ones are 67kg

[Airbus A320321]

Wrong. Jetstar doesn't carry full fit AKHs. On Sydney flights it is not unusual to only have 2 AKHs.

[LeFrenchKiwi]

Wrong. Jetstar doesn't carry full fit AKHs. On Sydney flights it is not unusual to only have 2 AKHs.

They do in NZ...or at least they used to. May have changed, been a while since I dealt with JQ

[Airbus A320321]

Wrong again. They don't in NZ either. They were carrying full fit for a little while while an issue with the uplocks was being resolved but that was a couple of years ago... You are fake news.

[LeFrenchKiwi]

Wrong again. They don't in NZ either. They were carrying full fit for a little while while an issue with the uplocks was being resolved but that was a couple of years ago... You are fake news.

Like I said, it's been a while since I dealt with JQ. You confirmed what I said though, a couple of years ago they were carrying a full fit. So while I accept they don't NOW, they have in the past.
How exactly am I fake news?

[rammel]

My experience on both the B738 and A320's was a few years ago, but it seems still valid.

The magic carpet in the B738 is a great assistance, but it's only the best solution available for a B738. If the magic carpet goes U/S there is often a loading restriction put on that hold, so the full capacity can't be used. If the magic carpet is serviceable then the whole capacity of the hold is still not used, as you can't totally fill the hold to the contour of the aircraft and there is unused space.

The A320 with an IHS does lose some space because of the containers being used, but if the IHS is U/S the full capacity of the hold can still be utilised. Also, if for some reason you're going to a port which does not have the equipment to unload containers, then the A320 can also be loaded manually. At least that was the case when I worked on them.

For the A320 there is an additional cost to have the ground handling equipment in each port, but this is offset by only needing 3 people to do the ramp turn around. For a B738 turnaround 5 people are required if both the forward and aft holds are full.

The main injuries on the ramp are backs, shoulders, necks and knees and while the magic carpet and other ground services improvements have been introduced, these are still the main injuries. While working in a confined space and lifting etc. then these injuries will continue. While injuries will still continue with the A320 from pushing and pulling a stuck AKH for example I can see that the A320 is better for managing these costs.

While I like both the B738 and the A320, I don't know about the actual aircraft running, maintenance costs and performance figures. It seems that the A320 has evolved over the years, even though it started after the B737. Now it seems that the B737 may have reached the peak of it's evolution and perhaps a new design is required. If I was running an airline and all of the running and maintenance costs and performance figures for an A320 or B737 were equal, I'd be going for the A320 as then I could perhaps lessen the manpower costs at airports around the network (staff and cost cutting are another topic entirely).

[Stuart Midgley]

Try bulk-loading the B757 to capacity. Now that's an 'experience'.:hmm:

[Guptar]

A measly 757 is childs play.

Try unloading 26 tons of freight with 2 (two) people. 12 deck pallets, a JCPL, tug + dollies and both belly holds full of loose freight.......... and just to make it that little bit more fun......2 horse boxes with 6 horses total....at 1am.

Fun days.

[Ex Cargo Clown]

A measly 757 is childs play.

Try unloading 26 tons of freight with 2 (two) people. 12 deck pallets, a JCPL, tug + dollies and both belly holds full of loose freight.......... and just to make it that little bit more fun......2 horse boxes with 6 horses total....at 1am.

Fun days.

Childs play. Try offloading 30 odd pallets plus bulk. then onloading the same in two hours. Containers are useful, speeds up turn around time plus you don't get silly stuations where you are offloading hundreds of bulk loaded little boxes. QF would be mad to go the 737 route.

[Willie Nelson]

Only 30 pallets......Luxury, back when I was a lad we would have dreamed of that.......

[Buster Hyman]

What's the IHS??
Thats a perfect example of a TLA...
What's a TLA. Has it (or they) anything to do with aviation?
You see, this is why I joined the PAA. (People Against Acronyms!)

[Ken Borough]

You see, this is why I joined the PAA.

I thought you meant PanAm for a micro-second! :}