View Full Version : Daylight flight, shades down 100% request

Skipness One Echo
15th Oct 2017, 11:27
Flying long haul WESTBOUND in daylight, shade ettiquete was, if direct light annoying someone, dazzling, then good manners, shade down.

However had a terrible UNITED LHR-SFO departing at noon and landing at half past one where the PA was for all shades down. I was trying to read my book abd I got a lot of pressure from certain quarters, noticeably a woman across the cabin (777), two rows ahead who kicked off I was letting daylight in. It was 2pm UK time. The PA to close the shades meant eventually the whole cabin was in utter darkness, though business had a couple up, enough for low level ambient daylight but more then acceptable to sleep IMHO

So, for WESTBOUND daylight, what airlines do this?
Flown BA, VS, AA and DL and not seen this before. Is it just UNITED or is it becoming a thing? I know Asian westbounds to Europe are all shades down, perhaps that’s an Asian thing?

15th Oct 2017, 11:35
I've seen this on United previously ex-LHR to western USA and the FA's got very aggressive with a person who was trying to keep the window shade open about 1" to read by.

I know everyone's body clock is all over the place but if the airline wanted to help you sleep it wouldn't install such crap seats so close together (in economy). Basically what's the point in having windows, lets save a few kilos of structure and just do without.

Skipness One Echo
15th Oct 2017, 11:46
Was that UA919 Tue 29-Aug? If so, that was me. A single inch of daylight caused a lot of kerfuffle.

Piltdown Man
15th Oct 2017, 12:54
Someone had had a sudden rush of something brown and smelly to the brain to come up with such a ridiculous, pointless requirement. This is one of the many reasons I choose not to fly in my time off.

15th Oct 2017, 12:55
I've only had two sectors on the 789 thus far and the auto shades could not be over ruled. Ghastly. I am trying to fnd out if VS are making a habit of this. The trip was my usua; LHR/JNB run earlier this year and it was HIGHLY annoying to have the real world outside filtered into blue and other colours beyond my control. If VS persist in this, then their 787 is off my list.

Squawk 6042
15th Oct 2017, 13:25
This year have flown Qatar, Oman Air, the one from Abu Dhabi and KLM long haul UK to Far East and Africa, mix of types including 787, and not a problem on any of them.

Yes, polite to block out streaming sunlight of course.

My biggest concern as someone who prefers the outside world to Hollywood is the need these days to pay or use air miles to guarantee bagging a window seat.

15th Oct 2017, 20:13
If you've paid for the privilege for a window seat, politely advise the CC that you will be seeking reimbursement for the additional cost of the seat if you a denied the use of the window.
If a punter can't sleep, surely they could be provided with an eye mask ??

15th Oct 2017, 20:14
Takeoff & landing: XAA rules state blinds open. That's all, nothing else about the flight. Courtesy, perhaps, during hours of sleep, i.e. night hours on takeoff clock, then closed as well. Morning sun at 03.00 is not very welcome. But a daylight flight westbound??? So then what. Is this a 'reasonable command for a/c safety by the crew'? If you refuse are you 'endangering the flight?' Were these conditions stated in your ticket purchase? is it at the whim of the purser? Are you liable to arrest if you refuse? One person's comfort is another's discomfort. Who is to decide? Was it a request from a pax that the blinds be down? Was there a democratic vote? Am I rebel? Damn right, when it comes to being surrounded by fools.
Flying over some of the earth's beautiful places and hidden from view. Daft and un-reasonable. If someone wants to sleep, in an upright position you'll be lucky, you have eyeshades. If you want to watch the unreal world on a video then the airlines should have designed a screen unaffected by sunlight, like my e-reader.

15th Oct 2017, 20:23
Pet peeve is people who will not close their shades. I'm trying to watch a movie and it only takes one passenger on the sunward side to cause a glare off the screen. Have resorted to fastening a blanket between my seat and the seat in front so a person can enjoy watching hundreds of square miles of open ocean. When the 787 came out with dimming windows I thought "about time".

Skipness One Echo
15th Oct 2017, 20:49
This is exactly the problem. I want to look out of the window and see some of the world. You wanna watch a movie. Unless my shade is causing a direct line of sunlight onto your screen you need to be more tolerant. It’s not a movie theatre. I want to read, take photos and enjoy the view in the daylight. The notion that the screen is unwatchable due glare in these circumstances is not fair.

Flew AC 788 and shades were force closed to level 5. When I asked, they came back up to 3, the mid setting. Again, daylight westbound.

Anyone had a problem with Norwegian or Virgin?

15th Oct 2017, 22:07
When the shades are down the pax tend to snooze, watch a film etc. and are less likely to trouble the cabin crew who are trying to scoff their meal and get their own heads down! ;)

16th Oct 2017, 07:03
With all shades down, on a sunny day, I've seen a pax with claustrophobia become agitated. Then what?

16th Oct 2017, 07:41
It’s one of my pet hates.

If it’s an overnight flight and passengers are trying to sleep, then fair enough.

But for a flight that operates entirely through daylight hours it’s completely unreasonable. It’s nannying. It’s a bit like being at nursery school and made to take a nap, whether you wish to or not.

As parabellum noted, it probably has more to do with CC trying to subdue passenger activity than anything else.

16th Oct 2017, 08:40
With all shades down, on a sunny day, I've seen a pax with claustrophobia become agitated. Then what?

That's a good one, I shall remember that next time I get asked to close the blind!

16th Oct 2017, 08:50
And then the pax next to says they have vertigo. You can't win, but then I say to them, "don't look. And why did you choose a window seat anyway? Let's swap."

Skipness One Echo
16th Oct 2017, 11:32
That's a good one, I shall remember that next time I get asked to close the blind!
That was exactly what I did say :)

20th Oct 2017, 18:49
Sounds reasonable to me, depending on time...

Bad memories of a flight from LHR to Las Vegas. Left at 4PM, so later in the flight it got pretty late. Would have been nice for the old dear diagonally in front of me who was the only one with a shade open to close it.

Nothing to see outside but cloud. I did have a nice shaft of light directly in line with my eyes...

Still with everything else going on in that flight I suppose it was a small problem...

I did have a small laugh. She and her husband were sat in H & K, presumably with the aim of keeping J empty. That failed - and the bloke who was in it was a royally drunk pain in the posterior.

21st Oct 2017, 06:42
In my experience window shades down on daylight flight usually means that the cabin crew don't want to serve and hoping pax will sleep throughout the flight.

21st Oct 2017, 10:31
On the late LAS-LHR route we where suggested to by the cabin crew that as we would be flying into daylight not that long into the flight that we all drop our shade, they feed us and let us sleep it off. No one complained as I suspect most of the flight where knackered anyways.
In those situations it seems reasonable it was made as a suggestion not an instruction and i wonder now if anyone had behaved otherwise what would have happened.

Hotel Tango
22nd Oct 2017, 10:32
This subject comes up on this forum periodically. I can relate to both sides of the argument and as such can't come up with a suitable solution which would please all parties. It's just one of those unsolvable problems.

22nd Oct 2017, 14:47
Indeed there is not an answer. Each carrier will state: Our aircraft, our rules. Which is correct. Readers might find this helpful from our FAQ, compiled by my illustrious predecessor, Tight Slot, who was Cabin Crew for many years.

WHY ARE WINDOW SHADE BLINDS OPENED FOR TAKE-OFF/LANDING? - See HERE (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=292584&highlight=window+shades+nightime) & HERE (http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/546797-window-blinds-up-takeoff-landing.html)

5th Nov 2017, 18:13
Full HD interactive exterior cameras and a decent screen would go some way to alleviating the problem. (I prefer seat 0A anyway)

Load Toad
6th Nov 2017, 02:40
The procedure on some carriers now is; serve the meal, blinds down, cabin temp up - hope the passengers fall asleep.

6th Nov 2017, 04:00
If you've paid for the privilege for a window seat, politely advise the CC that you will be seeking reimbursement for the additional cost of the seat if you a denied the use of the window.
If a punter can't sleep, surely they could be provided with an eye mask ??

Itís PUBLIC transportation So letís try and not be a DOUCHE and forgo the entitlement for the duration.

6th Nov 2017, 08:16
I don't understand where forgoing entitlement stops. Is my entitlement rated higher than yours or is it the other way round? Is one person more important than others and should their needs be met whilst inconveniencing others or should an attempt be made to meet the needs of the majority and make everyone else fit in?

I think that there is a case for letting people know what is expected and asking them to be considerate. It shouldn't be necessary to ask people to be considerate but unfortunately today's world seems to be increasingly egocentric in nature.

It used to be the case that airline schedules explained what meals were to be served and roughly the timing and there is no reason why that could not be reintroduced. Dark times could be set out to match that and everyone could know beforehand what was going to happen. If I know what to expect, I can decide whether I want to take that flight or not. in the case of window blinds, I know for instance that dreamliner will impose a set plan on me. Easyjet in Europe impose non reclining seats to avoid disputes (actually to save money). I can choose to take these flights but know what I am getting. If I don't want them, I can use alternative means of getting to my destination.

There's a whole discussion to be had about the 'rights' of people who are not able to fit in to expected norms but perhaps I should start a thread on that?

6th Nov 2017, 13:45
Very much a first world problem for both sides of the argument. It could be a hell of a lot worse.