EK - Don't do it!

[CaptainOldSchool]

Been holding my tongue here for too long but feel like I am going to explode. So I wanted to warn young new players away from looking at EK as a career choice.

What I wanted to warn people of is the complete miss alignment between the headline sales pitch that is put to you and the reality of the job in terms of what to expect for coverage of Education, Medical and Accomodation.

There are definitions and exclusion, there are the fine details etc and sure you can be reasonably expected to read and expect them to be complied with.

What is not on the sales brochure is the fact that things can change at a moments notice away from the terms you signed up for under your contract, and there is nothing you can do about it.

In the last 12 months, there have been several signification changes for example.

1. Commands are now limited by age. So if you joined young looking for a command after the generally discussed experience levels. Forget it... they just moved the goal posts and you are screwed.

2. They capped the medical claim per consultation. So a general consultation is capped with complete disregard to the time and expertise involved in the consultation. So for example a 5 minute GP consultation has the same cap as a 60 minute session with specialest. Never mind that one session takes 5 minuets and one takes 60 and is specialised. If they are not applying medical services on top of the procedure, then the service is capped at a rate that covers nothing. Crazy... but means that you can be out of pocket for huge $ if you are unlucky enough to require consultations about the low cap.

3. The ability to opt out of the accomodation scheme now means that if you have any commitment to the region you will also not have the ability to define the living conditions you experience. Not living in company accommodation or at least having the flexibility to chose is no longer an option. This is very significant if you have plans to live outside the hive.

4. Cost of living in DXB. Super hard to anticipate before you arrive, but without putting too finer point on it... EVERYTHING costs WAY more than you could expect. From processing fees for government services, groceries, access to services of any professional nature, not to mention the things that are not covered by Education, Medical, and Allowance that you expected would be covered. EVERYTHING cost more and is going up at amazing rates... super hard to anticipate just how out of pocket you will be.

5. Professionally. Not going to say a lot here, but lets just say that the culture of fear that infests the place is taking a serious toll on all those involved. There is a tremendous amount of potential for this place to be a great place to work. Currently it is far from this...

[Skylark737]

Airdancer =Management troll or extremely high on coolaide :ugh:

[parabellum]

Surely the salary is sufficient for you to have private medical insurance for you and your family? Spent nearly ten years in the Gulf, carried my own insurance throughout, having looked at and discounted the insurance offered by the company, (Not EK).

[highfive]

At one of their roadshows I attended, they did say that the accommodation allowance (for your own housing ) was available. However , you had to decide pretty much on the first day of joining , wether you wished to take Co. provided acc or opt out.

Has this changed?

Like most traditional expat jobs, the EK terms n conditions are in unassailable decline . Or more accurately simply have not risen to counter the massive cost rises in Dubai.

I was scared off by the admission by the recruiters that 90 hours was a normal roster . And the pay scale reflected this. Take off monthly allowances and its not a great salry to be an expat and all the heartache this can lead too.

[fatbus]

Coolaide!!

[tripleslavin]

Definately on something anyway!! Just done a couple of years here and honestly although life isn't as bad as some make out, I wouldn't make the choice to come here again, no chance.

For someone to say that point No 2 about the medical is a "who cares" point says a lot about the posters grasp of reality.

Medical in EK is not like any other company I've worked for, like a lot of stuff here its self regulated. Its the worst I've seen. Theres practically no cover outside of Dubai, so get your leg cut off in the nations capital, Abu Dhabi you have to hop to Dubai to get it back on!! Most major companies here have proper medical insurance that you can take anywhere, even if its just proper cover in the UAE, not at EK. Direct billing is becoming less and less as the hospitals are fed up dealing with these people.

Why is it if you have a pulled muscle the first thing they want to do is an alcohol test........

The days of making money in property in Dubai are long gone, you'd need your head tested to invest here right now, but then again the medical cover wouldn't cover it......

[5star]

Troll alert or better: it would seem that, consistent with his last email, AAR has truly found his way to the ME forum! Welcome...
After the latest acid test email, thankfully leaked out over here, one has to carefully assess if one wants to risk his/her career by joining EK.
Never mind the state or future of Dubai and the company, do you really want to join an airline where everything (yes everything!) you do in the sim or on the line is graded and will be used against you and where there is nill room to make mistakes? (and yes, we all know that regulatory checks are part of this business)...

Today, I would never ever join EK, even if I would be desperate!
And that is the message I give to my mates...

And maybe the 'acid environment' is starting to slowly bite EK back...

[Capn Rex Havoc]

5Star - I think you may be right about air prancer.

He/She writes - Just a straight guy on RHS done with the BS being sold on PPRuNe. .

Yet here he/she says Hmm is that why I have 40h this month with leave? 777 LHS

A total of all of 11 posts - all koolaid laced. hmmmmm

[SilverSeated]

5Star - I think you may be right about air prancer.

He/She writes -

Yet here he/she says

A total of all of 11 posts - all koolaid laced. hmmmmm

Oh that is brilliant.....well done Capn :ok:

2. Who sincerely cares. This will affect a very small part

Prancer, lets hope you don't fall foul to a serious medical issue that requires specialist intervention. That "very small part" consists of colleagues that may well be suffering both financially and emotionally....but hey, who cares! :ugh:

[ruserious]

Only business in the world colleagues get destroyed openly on social media and we would rather see the guy fail at a job interview so you can get that job, even if it's a close mate/colleague. We're all selfish.

And that tells you all you need to know about Airdancer

[ruserious]

quod erat demonstrandum

[sealear]

Seriously some of you need to get a life. If someone is happy here then good on them. Why make it your personal mission to abuse them on pprune. Maybe instead of sitting here complaining all day, go and shag your wife or study for your surprise line check that could be tomorrow :rolleyes:

[Jet II]

There is no doubt there are many issues at EK (there always have been) but if someone is happy working there (and it does suit some) then why do they need to be abused for that.

After all, if you dont like it then leave - slagging off other people for being happy isnt very healthy.

[Contact Approach]

Airdancer i love you.

[Murrenfan]

You're a whole new level of stupid.

Mods, offenses like this are now allowed? Maybe is time for Airdancer to take a break?

[Emma Royds]

I agree. Such comments are not welcome nor do I expect to find them on a forum for Professional Pilots.

[Jet II]

Well to be fair to airdancer, he didn't start it.

[White Knight]

Maybe Murrenfan and Emma, being accused of trolling or being EK management should also be 'unacceptable'; or perhaps being a 'koolaid drinker'? It's a two way street and Airdancer is entitled to his opinion without the usual BS reactions!

[Commuting Pilot]

Why make it your personal mission to abuse them on PPRuNe.

Slagging off other people for being happy isnt very healthy.

Because it's the done thing on PPRuNe, ever since day 1.

Never have I read a post extolling the virtues of an employer. Neither have I read how "Airline X is the best one to work for!" nor that "The best thing I ever did was to leave airline Y to join X!" Not once did I read a post telling the rest of the pilot community to "Come on in! Join Airline Z, the water's lovely!"

What a sad state of affairs for a professional group of men and women.

Airdancer, if you are truly happy and your statements above are not the ramblings of some troll or management stooge, then I applaud you! Well done! You are raising your head above the parapet to say so, but you are entitled to let people know how chuffed you are with your employment choice, just as much as those who are unhappy with their choices to say the same.

What is not acceptable is for group B (unhappy) to attack group A (happy.)

Group B, FFS, some people are happy! Get over it....

[LHR Rain]

BTW what is Koolaid? Seems to be American. Are you guys all American?

Haven't all the Americans left by now? I know a couple of old guys are just waiting for their kids to graduate and then they are out of here.
Who really wants to stick around this dump? Contrary to posted trolls there are plenty of good airlines out there that are hiring now. Why come to EK?

[Skindogg]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid

[sealear]

Exactly, enough with the insults. It's pathetic and as a group of professionals we should be ashamed. The public reads this forum too.

[Emma Royds]

Maybe Murrenfan and Emma, being accused of trolling or being EK management should also be 'unacceptable'; or perhaps being a 'koolaid drinker'? It's a two way street and Airdancer is entitled to his opinion without the usual BS reactions!

With the utmost respect WK, this is not an example of a two way street and the examples you provided bear little comparison as far as I am concerned, to the comment made earlier. The word 'stupid' is a clear insult to the person it is being directed to whereas a 'troll' or 'koolaid drinker' is far less abrasive in nature and is more like banter in my eyes.

Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion and it should be welcome! Whilst discussions can get a little tense from time to time, there is no excuse for such a direct insult. Maybe I am an old fart but as far as I am concerned, the comment earlier does go past the line of what is acceptable and for a number of reasons too, hence my previous post.

[nolimitholdem]

Exactly, enough with the insults. It's pathetic and as a group of professionals we should be ashamed. The public reads this forum too.

It's not like there's much reputation to protect anymore. The public sees a B777 crash, an A380 attempting to land in a crosswind...might as well get the whole dysfunctional mess out in the open. I used to take a small pride in saying I came from EK, now I don't mention it.

The "prancers" have always been there. Don't get trolled.

[Capt. Flamingo]

ASRs: FO screws up, they call him/her CM2; Capt screws up, they call him/her PF.

[SOPS]

How about the latest gem of ASR's?: A 380 in London, CM2 got a nasty 6 kt crosswind and instantly became uncontrollable. Whaaaat?
Go around after touchdown, then forgetting some pre-landing checklist or another before the CM1 boldly overcame the terrors and landed successfully.
Makes you proud.
Not.
Yeah - get the whole dysfunctional mess out in the open.

Are things really getting that bad?

[RK Blue sky]

It has gotten infinitely worse since you left SOPS. Be glad you got out when you did. You have no idea.
Enjoy Down Under.

[ruserious]

Well I have been called worse things than stupid and to be honest not even slightly offended, people demonstrate their personalities in what they write, regardless of anonymity and pretense. Nothing to see here, move along

[allatp]

Tasteless thread!!!!

[GillEx737]

This is honestly a bit embarrassing. I get the issues but to be filled with such bitterness that you'd want to verbally beat the happiness out of others...it's not proportional or reasonable at all.

[Calmcavok]

Same old, old circle of witches that always gather around the PPRuNe campfire cauldron. "Kool Aid" they cackle, as if it's a spell to dismiss those with a different opinion. "Management Troll!!" is shrieked with pointed finger and foaming mouth when an argument is put forth to back up their opinion.

It's embarrassing.

Embrace your inner professional and have a constructive discussion perhaps?

[WakeTurb_69]

Same old, old circle of witches that always gather around the PPRuNe campfire cauldron. "Kool Aid" they cackle, as if it's a spell to dismiss those with a different opinion. "Management Troll!!" is shrieked with pointed finger and foaming mouth when an argument is put forth to back up their opinion.

It's embarrassing.

Embrace your inner professional and have a constructive discussion perhaps?

Well said and couldn't agree more!