ICUS during PVT OPS

[MikeHatter732]

G'day all,

I have a quick question to ask on here before I have to send through an email to CASA and wait for a reply :}

Scenario:

Pilot A hires a C310 through a flight school/aero club for private hire.

Pilot B, who has flown a C310 before, sits in the left seat with a valid MECIR etc etc.

Both Pilot A & Pilot B have instructor ratings (i.e. they meet the requirement as per Part 61 for ICUS in which the PIC must hold either a instructor/examiner rating if operating outside a check and training environment).

Is Pilot A able to log PIC, and Pilot B log ICUS if Pilot B is infact, operating in command under supervision? (and not just sitting there twiddling his thumbs).

I have not been able to find anything in the regs which would indicate a definite yes/no answer.

Thanks in advance!

[drpixie]

See 61.095 - that's the definition.

[Checkboard]

(a) the person is supervised by a flight instructor or flight examiner; and
Can a flight instructor exercise the privileges of their rating outside of the supervision of a flying school?

[MikeHatter732]

Can a flight instructor exercise the privileges of their rating outside of the supervision of a flying school?

They can do Flight Reviews and DF training outside of a 141/142 organisation so I would say that’s a yes.

[Lat3ralus]

Both of you trying to get some twin time up?

[Ixixly]

Not trying to cast insinuations here, but if you are both just doing this as an exercise to increase your Twin Hours then I'd think very deeply about it. A lot of the Minimums that are set by Operators are more than just a box ticking exercise, it's about the experience that should come from those hours in the air in command and certain expectations that come with it.

I'd implore you, if you're doing this as merely a way to get cheap twin hours think very hard about what you're actually getting out of those hours, if you're both Instructors and one has suitable experience in the C310 then make sure there is some transfer of experience and knowledge happening there, make sure the person with the lesser experience is being suitably challenged and gains something more than just a legal ability/right to put it down in their logbook.

[Checkboard]

Looks like you are good to go -

Does training for the general competency rule have to be done under a Part 141 or 142 operator?

No, training to satisfy the general competency rule for pilots can be undertaken outside of a Part 141 or 142 operator, provided the flight instructor who delivers the training holds the appropriate training endorsement allowing them to conduct flight training in the aircraft being used.
The flight instructor must meet the competency rule to operate the aircraft, have a current flight instructor proficiency check and meet any other rating recent experience requirements.
Example
Peter has just purchased a Beech Baron aircraft and needs to undergo some training to attain competency in operating it. Peter already has a class rating for multi-engine aeroplanes and a multi-engine aeroplane instrument rating with a current proficiency check. He has asked Rachel, a flight instructor, to familiarise him with the aircraft operation and fly with him for some general handling competency and an instrument approach.
To undertake this training flight Rachel must hold a class rating training endorsement (multi-engine aeroplane), a current flight instructor proficiency check, a multi-engine aeroplane instrument rating and an instrument rating training endorsement. Rachel also needs to meet the general competency rule for operating the Baron.

https://www.casa.gov.au/regulations-and-policy/standard-page/flight-instructor-ratings

Rachel knows what she is doing. Be like Rachel.

Because general competency flight training does not require regulatory approval, it can be conducted by any appropriately authorised flight instructor and does not need to be completed through a Part 141 or Part 142 flight training organisation.https://www.casa.gov.au/regulations-and-policy/standard-page/general-competency-pilots


... You may have a problem with the aircraft hire, though. If the competent instructor is hiring the aircraft, but the ICUS guy is the one who will be flying it ICUS - the operation hiring the aircraft will probably need to be told that.

[LeadSled]

Folks,
Australia's complex, convoluted and NON-ICAO compliant ICUS rules, once again!!
Buuut --- we know better than the rest of the world, I guess that's why GA is such a booming, healthy and vibrant sector of the Australian aviation scene.
Tootle pip!!