RAF Officer beret

[heights good]

Where would one purchase an Officers' beret with the badge sewn on that does not have a ridiculously small amount of beret material? I have tried 2 separate places and they seem to be the small crown variant which looks ridiculous on my (,it would appear, oversized) head!

I have tried Snaith's and the Stn Tailor with no luck.

[Chris Kebab]

Are you looking for the completely covered right ear look?

[Wander00]

As worn in all best TV programmes with a military theme

[The B Word]

Never liked berets - too much of a Frank Spencer or French Onion Seller vibe!

Why not cut a dash in a field service cap like this chap? I’ve seen plenty of RAF vets wearing them.

https://modmedia.blog.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/142/2015/09/image11.jpg

http://www.aircadetonline.com/flash_site/assets/images/news09/121_aircrew_association_3.jpg

[MPN11]

Tend to agree. Berets are so 'airman' :)

I had to acquire a beret, as they became mandatory for Service shooting competitions, thus forcing the retirement of my much-loved and disgraceful SD cap [which kept the sun off my eyes and the rain off my glasses].

[Pontius Navigator]

I had a 50+ OTRE beret with proper gold wire badge. Only recently sold it on flee bay.

As the RAF has only the three badges RAFA decided on a forage cap with a uni-rank badge.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-1960s-RAF-Royal-Air-Force-Association-R-A-F-A-Side-Cap-With-Badge-/292243999626

The gent above is wearing a modern forage cap with hi dome stay bright buttons.

Here is the real deal:

RAF WW 2 Officers Side Cap/Hat | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAF-WW-2-Officers-Side-Cap-Hat-/162693308514)

[Herod]

I have to agree. I was very glad when I was commissioned, and the beret was no more. The "chip bag" though is much more practicable and easier to wear with style (?)

[heights good]

Not interested in a chip hat and just to be cler my head is not actually the size of the moon. A normal beret from stores fits fine but it doesn’t have a sewn on badge and looks terrible.

[WilliumMate]

These chaps will throw a bespoke one together for a consideration I would imagine. I have an ear warmer beret but it is the correct shade of blue. :E

Berets - CW Headdress LtdCW Headdress Ltd (http://www.cwheaddress.com/product-range/berets/)

[oldbeefer]

Are you not capable of sewing a badge on yourself?????

[MPN11]

My wife has a lovely officers' beret, gold wire badge, and beautifully weathered by 2 years as an IOT Flt Ldr. Otterburn, Salisbury Plain and Stanford PTA create a shape and patina that no amount of steaming and shaping will ever achieve :)

[heights good]

Are you not capable of sewing a badge on yourself?????

But why would you?

[Pontius Navigator]

Iirc the modern badge is metal and has the same pin fastening as the RAF badge. It is a woven badge you need, not a beret.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAF-ROYAL-AIR-FORCE-OFFICER-CAP-BERET-BADGES/311312629275?var=610419618418&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D201 60908110712%26meid%3D74488480ed5849368eab61b634594366%26pid% 3D100677%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D30%26mehot%3Dlo%26sd%3D31131262927 5&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598

[heights good]

Iirc the modern badge is metal and has the same pin fastening as the RAF badge. It is a woven badge you need, not a beret.

RAF ROYAL AIR FORCE OFFICER CAP & BERET BADGES (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAF-ROYAL-AIR-FORCE-OFFICER-CAP-BERET-BADGES/311312629275?var=610419618418&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D201 60908110712%26meid%3D74488480ed5849368eab61b634594366%26pid% 3D100677%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D30%26mehot%3Dlo%26sd%3D31131262927 5&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598)

This is what I am after, but with enough beret material that it at least hang lower than the leather band!

[Pontius Navigator]

Why would you want it lower than the leather band?

[heights good]

Why would you want it lower than the leather band?

Does it really matter? I just want to buy a beret to my spec? So judgemental, have you been talking to my wife?

[Bill Macgillivray]

I seem to remember (a very long time ago !) that, once commissioned, most of us ex-officer cadets who were commissioned from the "ranks" spent a little while "sorting out" our berets ! This was before the (re-)introduction of the forage cap !! I also remember being asked how to do it by other new officers !! Time flies !!!!

Bill

[BEagle]

The last time I saw my beret was when it was going up in flames after I left RAFC!

Awful things - the only officers who should wear one would be those of the RAF Regiment. Aircrew - never! Apart from those who fly those awful clattering devices known as helicopters, that is...:\

[Tankertrashnav]

When I was a Rockape I had a proper officer's beret from Gieves, of the type that I suspect you dislike, heightsgood. If you purchase an airman's beret and sew on an officer's wire badge then you are going to end up with a hybrid, but then as you are a civilian I suppose nobody can stop you.

Lost my beret somewhere along the line, and obviously never wore one as aircrew. Never wore a chipbag either, just a very nice Bates SD cap for best and an old tatty one to take with me when flying.

Incidentally why did the RAF call the sidecap a forage cap? Traditionally in the army a forage cap is what we in the RAF call the SD cap - what we called a forage cap is known as a field service cap in the army. I suppose as they got there first they are right and we are wrong! Strange.

[Dan Winterland]

RAF Officers Beret Royal Air Force Officers Beret RAF + RAF Officers Badge | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAF-Officers-Beret-Royal-Air-Force-Officers-Beret-RAF-RAF-Officers-Badge/141266979427?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D 2%26asc%3D46150%26meid%3D75bd19e153c740d3a008fe786a599aa0%26 pid%3D100623%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D3%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D29224399 9626&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1)

[Dan Winterland]

Chipbag was so practical for shoving in a flying suit bottom pocket or Nav bag.

[heights good]

When I was a Rockape I had a proper officer's beret from Gieves, of the type that I suspect you dislike, heightsgood. If you purchase an airman's beret and sew on an officer's wire badge then you are going to end up with a hybrid, but then as you are a civilian I suppose nobody can stop you.

I am still very much serving.... Unless you and Manning know something I don’t?!?

I just want a nice silk lined beret that doesn’t look ridiculous and can fit in a flying suit pocket and be worn with greens.

As a bonus it lets me avoid looking like a FJ w*nker with a chip hat. Oh, I could also buy myself one of those rather fetching £500 leather jackets to complete the look; all the cool kids are wearing them...

[heights good]

Chipbag was so practical for shoving in a flying suit bottom pocket or Nav bag.

Much like a beret...

[heights good]

The last time I saw my beret was when it was going up in flames after I left RAFC!

Awful things - the only officers who should wear one would be those of the RAF Regiment. Aircrew - never! Apart from those who fly those awful clattering devices known as helicopters, that is...:\

Is that what it was like ‘during the war’. To be fair, I am sure when your batman was turning your bed over and polishing your shoes it was easier to find an SD hat to put with your freshly pressed uniform...

[Pontius Navigator]

hg, very true. He would also remind me to wear my No 1 the next day and ensure my suit was brushed and pressed Mondays, Tuesdays and Thursdays.

[Sideshow Bob]

Does it really matter? I just want to buy a beret to my spec? So judgemental, have you been talking to my wife?

Got to be a contender for funniest reply of the year!! p.s. I always went for the Chip Bag as it fitted better in a knee pocket (stopped me losing it / forgetting to take it with me!!).

[Mahogany_Bomber]

I can't make a personal recommendation other than to suggest you avoid anything described as "small crown", you'll likely end up with barely any material to try and drag in the direction of your right ear (I speak from unfortunate experience).

SD hats and chip bags have their place, but unless one is an AVM or above; in a position to avoid wearing No3 Service Dress; or simply choose to ignore AP1358, then all currently service RAF personnel should possess a beret as it is the only currently authorised headdress (other than a helmet) when wearing Operational Clothing. Public service announcement over. :)

[teeteringhead]

Apart from those who fly those awful clattering devices known as helicopters, that is... You are a cheeky person BEags.

Just remember the dit of a couple of years ago:

Q: What do you call a collection of RAF helicopter Pilots.

















A: The Air Force Board!!

[Wander00]

I still have all 3, SD cap, forage cap and beret (with gold wire badge). Forage cap I wear for veteran events here (the French all wear their former service headgear) the SD cap is for my coffin when I finally shuffle off and the beret is to annoy SWMBO, who keeps wanting to throw it away and I won't let her

[racingrigger]

Whether you know it as a field service cap or forage cap, I believe the correct and original (pre WWII) name was a Glengarry adopted from the hat worn by Scottish regiments

[Danny42C]

Five years ago I wrote:
..." kitted out with white shirts and a Thirty Shilling Tailors chalk-striped suit. This natty ensemble was capped by a beret. Now there are heads which suit berets (spherical ones), and plenty more which don't. I looked like Holbein's Henry VIII. I never wore the thing and disposed of it as soon as possible."...
Never had a Service beret: we thought them appropriate only for the Regt.

In Burma, the accepted alternative to the Cap SD was the Aussie "Bush Hat", which can be screwed up and pushed into any nook or cranny in the cockpit.

[Willard Whyte]

a nice silk lined beret that doesn’t look ridiculous

I'd like an everlasting bottle of wine. That ain't going to happen either.

[iRaven]

Never understood why mechanical palm-tree drivers insisted on wearing berets with their flying suits. Berets should be for Rock Apes if we want to be historically accurate - otherwise they are an abomination. Also, don’t understand why 2-stars and above can wear a chip bag with PCS - surely a uniform should be uniform?

The Field Service Cap was authorized by Air Ministry Order A93/36. From December 1939 this form of headdress replaced the earlier peaked service cap for all non-commissioned ranks apart from the following: RAF Police, MT Drivers, and Apprentices. The cap badge was that worn earlier on the previous cap, but officers and warrant officers wore a gilt eagle and crown two-piece badge.The FS cap remained the standard form of headdress for the RAF as working dress and walking out, with berets being issued the RAF Regiment from 1943.

[Compass Call]

MPN11

There is nothing wrong with being an 'Airman'.:E

[Tashengurt]

Something very unsettling about a Rodney in a beret.
Not least that they might be mistaken for someone who actually works!

[MPN11]

MPN11

There is nothing wrong with being an 'Airman'.:ECertainly not, and the system would not funtion without them.

It was a whimsical comment, which I had hoped was clearly such. I aoplogise for any offence caused.

[Pontius Navigator]

Anyway, I thought the correct head dress for a Rock Ape was a Topi.

[Danny42C]

roving (#11339),
..."It is very interesting that when the Royal Air Force inspects Station accounts the task is performed by Royal Air Force personnel"...
Long ago, I was Adj of an Auxiliary F.C.U. Although there were two other Auxiliary units (the Squadron and a Regt Sqdn) on the Station (Thornaby). and they all had "Tea Swindles", for some reason mine attracted all the traffic (could my 70-odd girls possibly have had something to do with it ?) Be that as it may, we prospered mightily.

The Station Accountant Officer had enough on his plate, looking after the Non-Public Funds, and averted his eyes from us. But when I first arrived, I found that our Swindle had been enriching itself with schemes of doubtful legality. Knowing that Nemesis might come one day when I was still "holding the baby", I put a stop to these and enlisted the help of one of my Auxiliary Secretarial Officers (Tom Oliver), who was Asst. Manager of a Darlington Bank. He set up a full set of books for us, opened an account for us in his Bank, and ensured that our Swindle was run in an impeccable way. We were "copper-bottomed".

Some years passed, and then one afternoon, unannouced, there appeared in my office a civilian with a bulky briefcase, who informed me that he had come to audit our Swindle. My first instinct was to "tell him where to go", but my kindly nature came to the fore, and I sat him down with a cup of tea and a bikky, and laid all before him - yea, even to the cash box in my safe, and the little bag of surplus "profit" we could not account for.

Mollified, he went his way satisfied: seems that the little bag of "bunce" convined him of my honesty, when everything is too perfect, they smell a rat ! We parted with assurances of mutual esteem.

Danny.
(Then I got out the "Black Book"....no, just a joke !)

[roving]

MPN!!

Not sure Mike Jackson would share the joke ;)

[MPN11]

@ Danny42C ... totally OT, but as you mentioned Non-Public Funds ... I had a flt lt posted in, ex-CATCS after a late career Branch transfer from Admin (Sec). I sagaciously appointed her i/c Coffee Swindle ;)

A couple of weeks later I received an interview without Tea or Coffee from her, explaining quite specifically what had been done incorrectly since time immemorial. We resolved the situation promptly with SHQ.

Interestingly, she endorsed as Supervisor as a first-tourist, which shows what a jolly good chap she was!

[Pontius Navigator]

We hada swindle in Ascension (oh how the thread twists - but no one wore berets, or any caps come to that).

We used to pay in to it and get coffee, milk etc. Then I noticed aircrew often wanted a can of fizz. NAAFI at Travellers stocked Coke. I then discovered that NAAFI in Georgetown sold a dozen varieties of fizz at lower prices. Game on.

I charged Traveller's prices but offered a wider range of drinks, most not available up the hill. We made a hansom profit, sufficient to sub Sqn Ldr Ops when he 'lunched-out' a departing member of Ops at the Club in George Town. Everyone happy.

I also had to audit the Wives Club at Waddo. I pointed out to OC PMS that the annual turnover in the Wives Club was marginally less than my day's pay and I had to audit them 4 times per year. We stopped the audit.

Had to audit the ATC account at Lossie, nightmare, they were plus or minus a number of kegs of beer every month.

[YellowTom]

Height's Good, one of our officers phoned someone at Honington when they all needed a "replacement" for a deployment. I think it's only the FJ world now who don't wear one while on deployed flying ops??

[heights good]

Height's Good, one of our officers phoned someone at Honington when they all needed a "replacement" for a deployment. I think it's only the FJ world now who don't wear one while on deployed flying ops??

How else would everyone know who is normal and who take the the p*ss out of :E

[Q-SKI]

The last time I saw my beret was when it was going up in flames after I left RAFC!

Awful things - the only officers who should wear one would be those of the RAF Regiment. Aircrew - never! Apart from those who fly those awful clattering devices known as helicopters, that is...:\
As one who flew in those clattering noisy egg whisks I was rather fond of my beret! Easily stowed in growbag.

[BEagle]

Didn't the penchant for aircrew wearing berets stem from the SH world's experiences in NornIrn? General 'tone down / blend in' between aircrew and troops meant no gaudy badges, black rather than white kneepads, cabbage kit jackets and berets? So that it would be far more difficult for a terrorist sniper to identify the aircrew in a group on the ground?

Seems sensible where there's a reason. But generally?

Before the reintroduction of the tw@t hat, there was an article in Air Clues showing the possible alternative - a baseball cap :eek:. I was never sure whether it wasn't just a spoof, as the wearer was also puffing on a huge cigar.

A chap who was holding at Adastral between courses told me that he'd been observing the meeting where various firms offered their chip bag solutions. The first entrant produced something as simple as the USAF style, which could easily be folded over and stuffed into a pocket. Excellent, he thought.

But then came that awful thing with buttons and flaps - and the special version for air officers with a gold wire badge and blue piping. So What The Aircrew Wanted was binned and the cumbersome device was chosen.

Beret wearers would have been amused to witness the apoplexy of some aged shiny VC10 captain when a new Air Eng SNCO turned up one day in flying suit and beret!

[Pontius Navigator]

Before the reintroduction of the tw@t hat, there was an article in Air Clues showing the possible alternative - a baseball cap :eek:. I was never sure whether it wasn't just a spoof, as the wearer was also puffing on a huge cigar.

Well around 2005, when PR was flush with cash, I got an annual box load of gititz. Gitiz like pens, mouse mats, key fobs and one year 10 RAF Baseball Caps. Someone had found them in store somewhere?

Also an RAF Golfing umbrella the year before it became the ROYAL AIR FORCE. Useful for meeting our Air Cdre after alighting from his hecopleter. The following year, with the new script I got two black collapsible umbrellas with BLACK inscription. Very tone down.

[Avionker]

Never did like seeing an officer in a beret, rockapes excepted. At least they could shape them correctly.

Of course as aircraft techies we never trusted junior ranks who wore chip bags or stable belts either.

Chip bags on SNCO's were acceptable as, for reasons unknown, so many of them seemed to lose the ability to wear a beret correctly after getting their third.

[MPN11]

Anything like this one, PN?

I was sent a box of them by the RAF Sports Board, for use by Inter-Service shooting teams.

[JAVELINBOY]

Nothing wrong with the beret, its all down to the user molding and styling it to suit ones bonce.
Shape Your Beret


Dunk your beret in warm water—do not use hot or boiling water, as this can cause the wool to shrink.
Once your beret is damp and pliable (if it is dripping wet, gently wring out excess water), place the damp beret on your head. Adjust it to proper fit.
Pull the cardboard stiffener so it is centered over your left eye and smooth the material over your head. Fold the extra material over to the right forward side of your head, pulling it down towards your right ear. It should just touch your ear or go just below that. Bend the cardboard badge backer over at the top to achieve a smooth fold to the material forming the slope down to the right ear.
Once you've got it all set, wear the beret for a while until it has begun to dry.
Carefully take off the beret and set it aside to finish drying. You may need to shape it a few times to get it right.

[MPN11]

But surely 1. above suggests hot water is desirable to reduce the massive volume of the initial product?

[Lima Juliet]

I did hear that of all the pieces of RAF Uniform that the field service cap was the one that the general public recognised as RAF the most.

[goudie]

Only old Chiefies knew how to wear a beret. Pulled over the back of the head with the badge in the middle of the forehead

[Danny42C]

MPN11 (#49),

I like that ! Very snazzy ! Ought to be service Issue (bin all berets).

[Trumpet_trousers]

...if all else fails, the OP could try approaching the problem from a different angle and boil his head to fit the beret?

[The Oberon]

But surely 1. above suggests hot water is desirable to reduce the massive volume of the initial product?

Nope, I would agree with warm water but would dry the shaped item on a warm radiator to get the desired shrinkage. I would also remove the ribbon and lining before I started.

[Pontius Navigator]

MPN, slightly different shape and in colour too IIRC with the sexy new typeface.

[MPN11]

MPN, slightly different shape and in colour too IIRC with the sexy new typeface.
We may have to differ on that aspect ;)

[Pontius Navigator]

MPN, I didn't mean I thought it was sexy, just some PR bod thought the new A was. They must have paid buckets for someone to design a new font, and not even 26 letters. I got the same effect with italic :)

[Compass Call]

JAVELINBOY

Same instructions the drill corporal gave us at Swinderby after we got our kit:ok:

[MPN11]

MPN, I didn't mean I thought it was sexy, just some PR bod thought the new A was. They must have paid buckets for someone to design a new font, and not even 26 letters. I got the same effect with italic :)
I was quite impressed by your italic A ;)

I really don't know why it was deemed necessary, or how much it cost the RAF to get some long-haired hippy agency to do it. But it strikes me as classic MoD money-squandering, possibly initiated by a VSO trying to make his/her mark.

[Tankertrashnav]

Whether you know it as a field service cap or forage cap, I believe the correct and original (pre WWII) name was a Glengarry adopted from the hat worn by Scottish regiments

From my militaria dealing days I still have a copy of Army Dress Regulations, 1900, which shows both the Glengarry and the field service cap. The FSC differs from the Glengarry as its sides are designed to fold down and button at the chin to provide protection from the weather etc. Incidentally the FSC (NOT the forage cap) was not authorised for wear in the RAF until December 1939, and the beret did not come in till 1943, initially for the RAF Regiment only, which ties in with what Danny said in post # 32.

Incidentally, re t**t hat (cf c**t cap) I was never quite sure if this name was meant to describe the appearance of the headdress itself, or the wearer ;)

Anyway, I thought the correct head dress for a Rock Ape was a
Topi.

Tut P-N :=

[Lima Juliet]

TTN

An addition to your potted hsitory is that the beret in 1943 was RAF Regt only as you said but was only introduced for the rest in 1953. That was when the FSC was ceased until re-introduced in 1977 with the wooley-pulley in 1973[edit].

[k3k3]

I was issued my woolly-pully in 1974.

[Lima Juliet]

K3k3

My apologies you are correct. It was 1973 for the jumper and not 1977 - post edited.

[Fareastdriver]

The woolly-pully and cash over the bar were some of the reasons I left the Air Force.

I wore my No 2 until it wore out.

[Tankertrashnav]

The woolly-pully and cash over the bar were some of the reasons I left the Air Force.

I am pleased that I saw the last years of RAF mess life which would still have been recognisable to someone from pre war years, (suits in the evening, batmen, waiter service at all meals including breakfast etc), and certainly no cash over the bar.

I recall a mess meeting at Catterick when the main item on the agenda was whether the mess should buy a washing machine so that living in officers could do their own dhobi instead of sending it to the laundry. One crusty old wing commander (not RAF Regiment as it happens) spoke out against the idea, which he claimed would be "detrimental to the status of an officer".

Autres temps, autre moeurs

[Wander00]

TTN - I am with you on that

[Army Mover]

I must admit that I found RAF Mess life much better than the Army version. After spending 3 years at RAF Gutersloh, I happened to go back when the Army had taken it over; just wasn't the same.

[MPN11]

I do recall a Mess Meeting at HQ 11 Gp (Bentley Priory) in the early 80s, where there was a vociferous protest from living-in Fighter Control junior officers about having to dress for dinner. They wanted shirt & sweater to be SOP dress in the evening. I don't recall the result, but have a feeling they won their battle to drive down standards.

I was taught that one should dress in the expectation of the Mess receiving visitors, and visitors at BP were likely to be people of some significance. [/BOF]

[Pontius Navigator]

MPN, I had the requirement to spend a night at the Drayton mess. Very impressed, swiush doors, smart decor, modern reception and wow a lift straight to the Soviet Sector of Berlin.

I still remember a male person wearing just underparts and vest flying a model aircraft in the corridor.

Also an unforgettable visit to Saxa where Suzie was the CO. She was Suzie to everyone.

[Fareastdriver]

flying a model aircraft in the corridor

In my day it would have been one pedalling a bike at full speed with another one on the crossbar holding a broom and a dustbin lid: Coming the other way would be another pair, similarly equipped.

[Bill Macgillivray]

PN

Could I ask when you were at Drayton and saw this apparition? Many years ago I resided there (MOD) and made many model aircraft!!
As a "singley" it was probably the best OM going (for a non-flying station!)

Bill

[Haraka]

When the woolly-pulley came out, I was at Coningsby. What was very amusing was the alacrity with which the first of our aircrew stitched his wings on ( it was not officially sanctioned initially IIRC) .
One of our more mature (ex-Valiant and Canberra Recce) winged brethren quietly inquired of the said individual if he had remembered to also stitch them on his pyjamas.

[Chris Kebab]

Wooley-pulley had been in some while before the edict came along to sew your wings on, as I recall there was quite a bit of push-back in the early days.

[BEagle]

The original suggestion concerning the wearing of Wings on the woolly pully was actually a spoof proposal penned by a Scampton Vulcan captain.

Officialdom took him seriously and soon we had to comply.

Unfortunately the barathea No2 uniform as worn by V-bomber and Lightning aircrew had been withdrawn and the hideous replacement version found little favour.

The woolly pully went through several iterations, but the worst was the V-neck version worn with a shirt and tie. The last time I'd had to wear such a uniform was at prep school...:hmm:

[Fareastdriver]

Unfortunately the barathea No2 uniform as worn by V-bomber and Lightning aircrew

Since when was the No2 a prerogative of the V Force and Lightening aircrew? I was initially issued with blue serge No 2 which was chronic to wear and like every other officer I had the tailors make me a barathea version of the same. There was an issue version with zips instead of normal breast pockets but there was no shortage of those in the SH Force.

I believe every Supply officer had one too.

[Pontius Navigator]

BM, now that is stretching the brain cells. I know I visited LATCC and remember lunch but no memory of why. Best guess was 1988 and it just seemed so spartan compared with the splendour of the ground floor. The wardrobes on stilts to avoid the rooms being sub standard. The sloping top of the windows with no curtain or blinds. But overall the contrast.

I am sure that was well after your time.

[Pontius Navigator]

Since when was the No2 a prerogative of the V Force and Lightening aircrew? I was initially issued with blue serge No 2 which was chronic to wear and like every other officer I had the tailors make me a barathea version of the same. There was an issue version with zips instead of normal breast pockets but there was no shortage of those in the SH Force.

I believe every Supply officer had one too.

FED, I suspect the zipped pocket version you refer to was well after No 2.

The sequence was a No 1 for parades and a serge No 2 replaced as you say with your own barathea*. Then the No 2 was withdrawn around 1967 but you were allowed to wear it out. Instead we were given the cash to buy a second No 1 thus having working dress and parade dress. Not popular.

At the same time the Mk 2 V-Force crews and Lightning crews were issued with a zuite suit flying suit. A two piece and the trousers had a hole near the right pocket to accommodate the AVS and G suit hoses. We would have been very smart in a Gulag.

As Beagle said, supplies dried up in 1970 however there was a secret stash in Stores at Akrotiri and if you were quick you could persuade the Supplier to part with a set. I acquired one for someone several inches tasller and considerably bulkier. The station tailor did his magic and I had one that fitted perfectly. Apart from tailoring alterations the zuite suit was free issue.

Then came the new No 2, a c**p copy of the zuite suit at increased cost. They were optional, you could continue to wear the No 1 Working Dress. Then came the WP.

Don't start on the shirt saga.

[The Oberon]

The woolly pully went through several iterations, but the worst was the V-neck version worn with a shirt and tie. The last time I'd had to wear such a uniform was at prep school...:hmm:

Depends on who you were Beags, initially the round neck was worst for airmen. Every SWO and their respective staffs had different ideas, some wanted a tie with collar points tucked in, others said no ties with collars outside the neckband and every combination between. A bit like the current differences of opinion on MTP, tucked in/out, sleeves up/down.

[Tankertrashnav]

At Catterick around 1965 a chap who had been chopped from pilot training turned up to start his Junior Regiment Officers' Course in one of those zip-up Bomber Command thingies, complete with regiment flashes. He was sent back to the mess to change and told to get rid of it ASAP. Another time a chap appeared in his no 2 complete with boots and anklets, web. Once again somebody had a not so quiet word with him, and he never appeared in that rig again.

[MPN11]

As an impoverished plt off, my "work No 1" was getting very tired. A kind aircrew neighbour in the Mess donated me one of those zoot-suit jackets, from which I removed his brevet and flt lt rank and substituted my thin bit of braid. Sadly, within a month or so I was told not to wear it as it was for 'speshul' aircrew.

I think I then managed to source a cheap No 2 BD in barathea from somewhere. The long-term solution came with my posting to Tengah :)

[Lima Juliet]

Back into the 21st Century then the 25 year old RAF General Purpose Jacket is about to be replaced sometime next year as detailed in news first broken in RAF News on 7 Apr 17:

https://issuu.com/rafnews/docs/raf_news_07_apr_2017/18

Here is a picture of the article on the new jacket which will have reflective piping but effectively be the GPJ in new fabric but without that gopping ROYAL AIR FORCE logo on the front that makes it look even worse. :yuk:

http://i66.tinypic.com/sxgcir.jpg

I can’t help thinking that we could do better. Either something a bit more traditional - like a battle-dress jacket worn by the Indian Air Force but not made from itchy wool. :ok:

http://indianairforce.nic.in/images/Dress%20No%207.gif

[BEagle]

A RAF clothing spokesman said: "The jacket was designed by the Defence Clothing Team...."

Clearly - it looks like an utter piece of $hit!

Why have RAF jackets ever since the awful 1972-pattern Thunderbirds smock always had such halfway-down-the-arse long backs?

[Corporal Clott]

BEagle

I agree. I quite liked the old GPJ with its bomber jacket styling. But with no flyng badges, insignia, medal ribbons or any-such-like other than rank it always looked a bit bland.

https://image.sportsmansguide.com/adimgs/l/3/302381_ts.jpg

I would have thought a re-run of the same would be better but maybe with a subtle name badge like the ones on the leather jacket?

Also, it could do with zips on the pockets and somewhere to put those pesky pens that migrate into cockpits and flying control runs...

CPL Clott

[Tankertrashnav]

I recently mentioned seeing College Warrant Officer Gibbons at RAFC in 1965. There was no such appointment as CASWO at the time, so the College WO was de facto the senior warrant officer in the RAF.

Cant help feeling that Mr Gibbons, resplendent in immaculate No 1 with sword, which he wore when out and about in the College, cut a more impressive figure than poor Mr Crossley, CASWO will do if forced to wear that shapeless bit of kit.

I always rather liked the army "British Warm" which with its leather buttons and lack of any rank insignia could also be worn in civvies. Some time in the 70s word came out that officers who wished to could have their greatcoats converted to British Warm style, but they had to retain the rank braid on the epaulettes which rather defeated the purpose. I foolishly had mine done, and the result was bloody awful - waste of a good greatcoat!

[Lima Juliet]

TTN - yes, I feel Mr C’s pain in having to model the one with the delivery driver badge on it!

http://i66.tinypic.com/5n3e2p.jpg

We were trialling blue PCS but the shade of blue looked really scruffy and I understand has been shelved. I really think that as the world’s first dedicated Air Force reaches its 100th birthday we should be considering some of the heritage over the past century. Field Service Caps and War Service Dress (aka Battle Dress) conjures up that image in most people’s minds. Can we not have something with traditional heritage but made from modern materials?

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attachments/uniforms/314476d1330633039-king-george-vi-odd-raf-uniform-gvir001.jpg

[MPN11]

Modern materials? You mean something that doesn't crease when you look at it? That will be the day!

I really have no idea why the RAF is so utterly AWFUL at designing and then issuing garbage-looking uniforms. I can only assume they're all civvies in that part of the system, with no sense of the dignity a uniform item should present (in addition to practicality, of course)

[/rant]

[Pontius Navigator]

I only had one of the 90s jacket, wore it for perhaps 15 years and still looked good, good enough for a second life via eBay.

I have seen civvies wearing it and without and labels it still looks military and that knitted welt covered a mulitude of sins.

[Wander00]

Ted Gibbons - now there is a name, and a man, to conjure with.

[Pontius Navigator]

http://i66.tinypic.com/5n3e2p.jpg

Remember when SWOs used to insist the jackjet was zipped to the neck like WW2 army blouses. Most didn't do that out of sight of Swoman.

[JAVELINBOY]

Agree the zip should be fully up then perhaps the collar would fit better, looks altogether one of the worse bits of clothing I ever did see, cross between a fleece and a bomber jacket that just fails to look right.

[teeteringhead]

I thought there was a "regulation" length of zip to be left undone.

ISTR a SWO who had the length - whatever it was - marked on his stick so he could check potential "offenders"........

Ah, those were the days............

[The Oberon]

Dreadful looking thing, they might as well give everyone an LPO and tell them to go and buy a blue fleece.

[Roadster280]

I really have no idea why the RAF is so utterly AWFUL at designing and then issuing garbage-looking uniforms.


Sorry, can't agree with that.

It appears that the RAF is really quite good at designing and then issuing garbage-looking uniforms :E

[Dundiggin']

I remember in my dim and distant past, a time when the 'discerning' among us had our No 1 uniform jacket modified by having a 'bespoke' tailor shorten the jacket to the waist, replace the front buttons with a zip, add rank, brevet and medal ribbons and a luridly coloured silk lining et voila!!
This produced the best, probably the smartest and certainly most comfortable working, everyday jacket ever!! :cool:
I don't know or care how legal it was but quite a few of us had one. Much better than the 'bomber' jacket.
Unfortunately, after many years' of loyal service the silk lining wore through and I couldn't afford a new No 1 uniform to replace it.:(

[Danny42C]

We fought a war with a No.1 SD and the 1941 issue scratchy "Battledress". That's all you need.

Postwar the barathea battledress came in as an option. In 1949 some idiot designed a new pattern No.1: it lasted about 18 months, then even the Air House had to admit that it looked ridiculous, scrapped it and went back to the wartime No.1 (except that they chopped the lowest (4th) button off (so as not to lose too much face).

We were all happy with that until I retired in 1972.