Leeds-6

[LBIA]

Thomas Cook are to base an Airbus A320 next summer at Leeds/Bradford to fill in some of the voids left behind after Monarch's sad collapse earlier this week.

The based aircraft will operate 12x weekly services to 7x destinations which includes flights to Palma, Mahon, Tenerife, Larnaca, Dalaman, Antalya and Enfidha

Mondays
TCX1196/119 = Palma 06:00/12:25
TCX160/161 = Dalaman 14:25-00:25
Tuesdays
TCX192/193 = Enfidha 05:00-13:15
TCX1188/1189 = Tenerife 14:25-00:35
Wednesdays
TCX1140/1141 = Larnaca 07:00-17:55
TCX160/161 = Dalaman 19:10-04:55
Thursdays
TCX1116/1117 = Palma 06:10-12:35
TCX162/163 = Antalya 13:50-23:55
Fridays
TCX1096/1097 = Mahon 04:45-11:05
TCX196/197 = Enfidha 13:00-21:15
Saturdays
TCX164/165 = Dalaman 07:00-03:40 W-leg
Sundays
TCX168/169 = Antalya 06:00–03:30 W-leg

[N707ZS]

Wonder if they are paying Thomas Cook to bring in the aircraft like Monarch.

[LBIA]

I've no idea if LBA are giving Thomas Cook free landing & parking fees like they did with Monarch for first year of operation. Its a good incentive to do deals like that if it brings in money for the airport. LBA are not alone as other airports are known to do it.

Saw the new CEO David Laws appear on BBC Local News the other day saying they will be further announcements over next few weeks from Ryanair, Jet2 and TUi, regards replacing capacity lost after Monarch's sad collapse.

[N707ZS]

Not knocking the airport. Interesting to see the management can get a full based aircraft in a week. Wonder why my local cannot do that. Presume two rotations a day doesn't make massive employment.

[LBIA]

TUi have added 2 new routes from Leeds to Malaga and Dalaman for next summer 2018 using the based aircraft.

Mondays
TOM3172/3173 = Ibiza 09:40-19:55 (W-legs to Liverpool)
TOM3157/3158 = Corfu 21:40-04:35
Tuesdays
TOM3250/3251 = Palma 08:05-14:30
TOM3370/3371 = Dalaman 16:00-01:50
Wednesdays
TOM3316/3317 = Palma 06:00-12:25
TOM3338/3339 = Paphos 13:55-00:50
Thursdays
TOM3432/3433 = Palma 06:25-13:05
TOM3404/3405 = Bourgas 14:35-22:35
Fridays
TOM3550/3551 = Corfu 08:25-16:30
TOM3506/3507 = Mahon 17:50-23:50
Saturdays
TOM3618/3619 = Palma 07:50-14:15
TOM3646/3647 = Rhodes 15:50-01:10
Sundays
TOM3744/3745 = Malaga 06:05-13:15
TOM3748/3749 = Tenerife 15:05-01:30
TOM3710/3711 = Palma 18:40-01:05

Looks like a 2nd based aircraft is required on Sunday evening unless they do a bit of rescheduling

[easyflyer83]

The Sunday PMI will likely be a W pattern from another base.

[oldart]

It is nice to see that LBA is doing so well with international flights, however an advert flashed up on this site to premote Virgin train times from Leeds to London as being 2 hours 13 minutes. I wonder in the long term if this will gain customers from BA or other routes, especially so when the high speed link is finished.

[Plane.Silly]

It may do. From a time perspective, you could argue the time taken to fly LBA-LHR (1hr?) but then all the waiting in queue, then transferring into London makes it look pointless.

However from a connectivity perspective, people would still use the flights to connect onto onward destinations, much less hassle than lugging all your luggage onto a train, where you may/may not have space for it, onlt to then transfer further toawrds LHR/LGW.

End of the day, the demand will still be there

[tigertanaka]

Apparently LBA-LHR provides a higher % of connecting passengers than any other domestic flight on the BA network.

[Fairdealfrank]

It may do. From a time perspective, you could argue the time taken to fly LBA-LHR (1hr?) but then all the waiting in queue, then transferring into London makes it look pointless.

Not everyone taking the flight is heading up to London, those that are may prefer the train, but for those heading for the Thames valley and other points south or west of London, flying may well be much more convenient.

As for those with onward connections, it's a no-brainer!

[tigertanaka]

I also suspect there is a fair amount of LHR originating traffic on this route as anyone living west of zone 3 can probably get to central Leeds quicker on the plane than on the train. The lack of a nightstopper at LBA also means that the schedules work out better for those commuting up to Leeds for the day than those coming south.

[EastMids]

Australian investment fund AMP Capital acquires Leeds Bradford:

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/transport/leeds-bradford-airport-sold-to-australian-investment-fund-1-8811675

[Plane.Silly]

Interesting development there. In the article, it mentions they also own Newcastle Airport.
Assuming this refers to NCL-UK and not NTL-Aus, could the recent arrival of the new CEO (from NCL) have anything to do with this?

[southside bobby]

Interesting statement from the new owners...also includes investment fund jargon speak..
"clear opportunity for performance enhancement"......= sweating the assets...Good luck perhaps in order.

[EastMids]

AMP Capital holds 49% of Newcastle (UK)... Yes, a very intriguing move given the fairly recently appointment of the former NCL CEO at LBA. I'm at LBA next week and should be talking to the boss - an interesting question I think!

[SWBKCB]

Laws also worked for AMP between NCL and LBA

Newcastle Airport's part owner buys Leeds Bradford Airport - Chronicle Live (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/business/business-news/newcastle-airports-part-owner-buys-13780965)

[JollyTraveller]

This is an interesting deal.

Both Newcastle airport and Leeds Bradford airport have seen huge increases in passenger numbers since these private investment companies got involved with the ownership of them.

But both airports have also seen debts building at an alarming rate over many years while both battled for passengers.

It has been reported Leeds Bradford airport (group of companies) debt are over £200 million.

It has been reported Newcastle airport (group of companies) debt are over £400 million.

I'm sure all will end better now one company has control of both airports.

[LEEDS APPROACH]

Bridgepoint have realised what everyone who is not a blinkered Yeadon spotter knows. Wrong location and cannot function. Diversions in the morning because of low cloud and diversions in the same evening because of 90 degree crosswinds! - par for the Yeadon course. Literally a third of the passengers that could and should and will be being moved from the main airport for Yorkshire [if situated and connected properly].

What we can say is that the owner entrance 'plans' strangely enough never materialise. Of course they don't.

If this site is not a housing estate between 10 and 20 years I'll eat my underpants! Just keep watching in this region.

[chaps1954]

Better make sure they are washed then

[canberra97]

He comes and goes with what seems like weeks away from the forum but sure enough whenever he returns it's the same old rhetoric reiterating his long term agenda!

Now the term 'underpants' sounds a bit old fashioned but I hope you eventually enjoy eating them washed or unwashed.

[LBIA]

The new owners AMP Capital have issued a press release on its own website regards its acquisition of Leeds/Bradford Airport from Bridgepoint Capital. It looks to be the same one as issued on the airports own website.
No official figures have been released, but sources say they have paid somewhere between £200-220 million

https://www.ampcapital.com/site-assets/articles/media-releases/2017/2017-10/amp-capital-to-acquire-leeds-bradford-airport

[Plane.Silly]

Literally a third of the passengers that could and should and will be being moved from the main airport for Yorkshire [if situated and connected properly].

If this site is not a housing estate between 10 and 20 years I'll eat my underpants! Just keep watching in this region.

Does that mean the other 2/3 of the 4m pax that use LBA would still use it. Still a lot of people IMO. As you elegently point out in previous posts, the leakage to other airports is real, just not to this scale. People will just use the cheapest and closest airport to them, thats why bucket 'n' spade works at LBA and other destinations work well from MAN.

As for being a housing estate, even if LBA did shut down, i doubt this would be the case. If it does, begsy the 4 bed detatched over the A658 bridge:E

[paully]

Well undercrackers or not, looks like his Church Fenton can has just been kicked even further down a very long road ;)

[LBIA]

Well you better tell the new owners AMP Capital that the doing something right up at LBA. As it's broke 4 million pax (12 month rolling) figure for the first time ever...

August 2017 = 524,707 +15.11%
September 2017 = 464,222 +14.62%.

Meaning that 4,038,772 passengers have used LBA over the past 12 months rolling upto September 2017.

It I'll be interesting to see the 12 month rolling year to end figures for 2017, as we should see what effect the collapse of Monarch has had.

[N707ZS]

No official figures have been released, but sources say they have paid somewhere between £200-220 million. Wonder if that has paid the debt off or does the debt come with the purchase and the previous owners have the money in the bank.

[BAladdy]

Notice Leeds Bradford has re appeared as a destination on EasyJet’s website, however no routes available to book yet.. Anyone know if they are planning a route launch in the near future.

[yeo valley]

Is it not the GVA winter route

[BAladdy]

No destinations are available to select, don’t recall seeing LBA on the drop down list last week.

[LBIA]

I'm sure it was confirmed earlier this summer that Easyjet would not be returning to operate the LBA-GVA route for the winter 2017/18 season.

[anothertyke]

As for being a housing estate, even if LBA did shut down, i doubt this would be the case. If it does, begsy the 4 bed detatched over the A658 bridge:E


Actually, if the land ever became worth more for housing than as an airport, that's the one situation where I could see change happening. Could you get 2000 houses on there at 100k a plot?

[LEEDS APPROACH]

It is not really about how many houses or what the land is worth. Not at all.

It IS about the Billions of £££s that have been squandered [or rather given away to MAN, EMA etc etc}. Economic suicide!

Directly because the airport is in the exact wrong location to tap its potential catchment allied to the fact that it simply cannot function as a modern 21st century airport. A conurbation this size not having regular (or otherwise) wide bodied flights would not happen anywhere else in continental Europe.

I love the place but as an airport it is a toytown joke.

What will be the next [of a long long line] of route failures due to the above? Leave your answers here.

[Mooncrest]

Here's an answer, Leeds Approach. Change the record or kindly go away. Please.

[LEEDS APPROACH]

Well over 6 years since the first commercial flight of a B787 Dreamliner - not 1 movement at Leeds Bradford!

22 years + since the first commercial flight of B777 - not 1 movement at toytown LBA!

Don't worry though 6 million people in Yorkshire - use your hard earned and heavily taxed savings to get yourself to Manchester.

The Government certainly do love Yorkshire and Humberside folk! Guess why they flock up here when there is an election!!?

[Jerry123]

Even if Yorkshire had the perfect airport like you want it's close proximity to MAN would still make it extremely hard for it to attract wide bodied flights even from an airline like TUI.

[LEEDS APPROACH]

Quite simply the extrapolation of known and accepted statistics/facts show that your statement is incorrect. Totally incorrect.

We don't require a 'perfect' airport. Just an sensibly located airport (for its potential catchment) that can work properly.

[chaps1954]

If I remember correctly Leeds has had widebody jets, but times change many of the major airlines prefer to operate from just a few main airports and send a token operation
to others. TUI choose DSA as their Yorkshire operation so won`t be sending B788 to Leeds not that they do from DSA either

[pug]

Leeds Approach hasn’t extrapolated any statistics, as has been posted by this person in the past, the argument made is based on spurious data and false assumptions of grandeur.

Please go away.

[paully]

Leeds Approach, thankfully on his rare visits, waxes lyrically indeed but has never yet advanced anything approaching, even an outline, financial plan to achieve same :ugh: and more to the point never will

[snowman 1]

hi all
DONT BITE LADS DONT BITE

[canberra97]

Here's an answer, Leeds Approach. Change the record or kindly go away. Please.

Absolutely HERE HERE.

Where does this guy go to and then after a short break from Pprune reappears with the same agenda, every single time with the same boring rhetoric, can't the mods deal with him because it's got well past a joke now and I think that many on here feel the same as every time he posts he hijacks the thread with the same old argument that he continually puts across.

I personally think he has issues other than aviation related ones.

[jamesgrainge]

Look at the positives, without him this thread would only get bumped twice a year :}

[rpmac]

Not true, this is one of the best threads and only spoilt by one contributor every now and then. Maybe one day he will get the message.

[EGPO]

Not to feed the troll- far from it. but this debt , now that one company now has the total very large debt from two airports .
( Monarch went down and that was a real loss ).
To then have an airport which has well publicised WX issues .
Access issues which local authorities - central government own that fault.

Plus for future expansion the master plan is impressive .

But the WX will always be a thorn. LBA needs to grow.
But has the above issues .

Sadly where exactly does that poster think they'd move to ?
Not an Ex RAF Field close to the end of THE Proposed HS line. ( nimbys will have a field day ).

Plus DSA - is down the road. suffers WX occasionally but is well connected , huge site .

Finally LBA/DSA could easily one day ( never say never ) .
Norweigian offer these flights to ' Providence ' for example .
No need for big wide bodies .

As for Leeds being a housing Estate in 20 years -NO..
Even if every Airline left tommorow it's too long established with other business.

I won't name the other poster but to suggest closing such a long lasting site and move it close to a site where nobody has heard of.
Plus the legal challenge from locals to more than double that site - and HS2 .
Never going to happen imho.

[paully]

Its never going to happen in the rest of us`s opinion, but it doesn`t stop the `Other Poster` pretending it will.

[LBIA]

LBA is not going to close as much as the Troll would like it too.

I'm sure I've read that AMP Capital have paid off some, if not all of the reported £89.5 million worth of debt as part of the deal to buy the airport from Bridgepoint.

It is well known that LBA has its downfalls operationally and Infrastructure wise. The airports new CEO seems to have his head screwed on and openly admits it's problems, But he wants to know how things can be improved, so is willing to listen other people opinion's. It also helps that at long last Leeds City Council are singing from the same hymn sheet.
The planned New Parkway/Park & Ride rail station on the Leeds-Harrogate-York line has to be built otherwise LCC stand to lose a load of government cash. Meanwhile money has been secured for the building of the A65-A658 link road, but both projects are a long way off as the still in the early development stages.

The airport had already secured an extra Jet2 based aircraft for next summer 2018 even before Monarch Airlines recent collapse.

So far 73% of Monarch's capacity for next summer 2018 has been replaced. Thomas Cook opening new base, Extra flights added by TUi and even further growth by Jet2. Rumour has it that Ryanair are possibly looking to increase capacity next summer as well.

[Fairdealfrank]

I won't name the other poster but to suggest closing such a long lasting site and move it close to a site where nobody has heard of.Not the only one to come up with such a daft and risible plan, Boris was pushing for the establishment of an airport in the Thames estuary ("Boris Island") and the closure of Heathrow.

That scheme never took off and is now never mentioned. Boris is now the MP for Uxbridge, a town near Heathrow. Could it be because he now has many constituents who work on the airport? Or is that too cynical?

Both "Boris Island" and Church Fenton have one important thing in common, they are both notoriously bad business propositions. Consequently, in a country where civil airports are privately owned, neither is going to fly.

[EGPO]

Ok maybe a silly question . Is there land to the west of LBA suitable for a replacement Runway of decent length and orientation ?
I know years back the current runway was a totally different alignment .
The original is now a taxiway is it not?.
Would such a project be possible and what would the current be retained if this was possible ?.
After all if Heathrow can look at new runways why not Leeds.
And this isn't meant to be a daft question .
I'm not up on this subject but with modern engineering and enough cash ? .
A runway more suitably aligned should eliminate the often heart stopping landings .
But moving the whole field who is to say airlines would follow.
Plus is Church Fenton not rather close to the military corridor in the East there , near to York .
Doesn't that pose conflicts for airliners on a long ILS approach ?.
Sorry if these seem silly questions . I'm curious and just can't get my head around shutting such a well established site.
Not to mention time and planning...

[N707ZS]

After all if Heathrow can look at new runways why not Leeds.
Cash is the simple answer. Tin hats on everyone!

How often does Leeds East get flooded from the Ouse?

[Harry Wayfarers]

Plus is Church Fenton not rather close to the military corridor in the East there , near to York .
Doesn't that pose conflicts for airliners on a long ILS approach ?.

What have Church Fenton and an ILS got in common?

[Plane.Silly]

@EGPO

At absolute best, you could get an extra 500m or so from the start of R32, R14 has too much of a dip at the end to be useful. But it's probably going to be a step too far from a cash/engineering perspective, so it's best to leave R14/32 as it is.

There used to be R9/27, but you're correct it's now a taxiway. Also looking to re-align to a different heading, you wouldn't get the space without knocking houses down and p###ing a lot of people off.

We're stuck with LBA as it is, but hopefully the new owners have good plans for it

[anothertyke]

I agree. Beyond about 500m the land starts falling away to the valley between Guiseley and Menston. Nothing to be done.

'Often heart stopping landings'. Slight exaggeration. I must have landed at LBA over 100 times in the last 40 years. I can recall one go around, one where the guy plonked it down as if to say==you stay there== and one diversion to Teesside.

It will be interesting to see what the new owners plans are because inside the fence I'd say the greatest operating restriction is the lack of a full length taxiway. Of course there are thousands of hours per year where there is no capacity problem at all, but at 0730 on a Sat morning in July, it is constrained.

[EGPO]

Thanks guys I guess I had madeira airport in mind . Runway extended on stilts .
I take it the old runway 27 is now too close to the terminal and again I take it there is sony not enough room.
I'm slightly surprised with for example London's cross rail and hs1 submerged. That with such civil engineering technology. With a combination of clever civil and compulsory purchase it couldn't be done.
Didn't they do similar at vagar. a runway on stilts .
Not to go off topic.
I agree the lack of a parralel taxiway isn't good but is an easy fix.
Playing devils advocate is there a theoretical limit to expansion ?.
Looking at Google Earth it seems they need to grab that land to the north west is it.
The end with the D2 A road in the tunnel.?
.would an extension of the existing runway ( in the masterplan) be any use if apron. Space is at a premium?.
I recall an exes grandad ( ex pilot ) before he died saying that side I mentioned and a better runway was the only real fix

[Harry Wayfarers]

Looking at Google Earth it seems they need to grab that land to the north west is it.



It's a very long time since I worked for Air UK but the problem coming in on rwy 14 is that there is high ground on the approach so much so that the GPWS would sound "too low, pull up" or whatever.

Apparently that is the mistake the British Airtours L-1011 made all those years ago, that the flight crew were unfamiliar with LBA, that they believed the GPWS and touched down way too late to stop in time before the end of the runway.

[Teevee]

Harry that's probably Otley Chevin. There's a nice pub about a mile off the end of 14 I guess and if you watch from there the runway is below you. I'm not a pilot but I believe the charts show a 3.5 glideslope to 14 and warn of nuisance GPWS at about 2 miles. Extending 14 closer to the hills wouldn't help much.

[RAFAT]

Harry - now that we're in the era of Enhanced GPWS those nuisance warnings don't occur going over the Chevin, but yes they were present when we had the previous version but have always been noted on the approach plate.

[Harry Wayfarers]

It wasn't a criticism, it was a statement of fact, a previous poster suggested an extension of 14/32 to the north west, extend it much more and the aircraft may be flying in to the Royalty pub rather than over it!

Perhaps a video of approaches to rwy 10 at St. Barthelemy might get the message across:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBxpxK3MO5w

[Andy_S]

Thanks guys I guess I had madeira airport in mind . Runway extended on stilts .

I stand to be corrected, but I believe Funchal ATC don't routinely allow landings on Runway 23 (approaching the 'elevated' end). I assume this is risk based, but could be due to prevailing winds. If true, and Leeds did something similar, it would surely place operational constraints on the airport.

I'm slightly surprised with for example London's cross rail and hs1 submerged. That with such civil engineering technology. With a combination of clever civil and compulsory purchase it couldn't be done.

I don't think anyone denies it could be done. But it would be very expensive and very difficult if not impossible to justify in terms of ROI.

[Flying Wild]

It's not something that Funchal ATC have any control over, it is simply a matter of the prevailing wind. The wind either favours 05 or 23. I've certainly made approaches to both ends.

[Andy_S]

Fair enough, I stand corrected!

The more fundamental point, though, is that the civil works would be prohibitively expensive. They could be justified at Funchal, but not at Leeds.

[Bishop01]

Hi guys..

Personally I don't know what your all moaning about... I'm from DTV, "so you should think yourselves lucky!" I always tend to fly through LBA now, and although its over crowed, I tend to find it very organised.. "unlike the shambles up here"

If you want to shift the Airport then head up here with your management... as I for one would be over the moon...:D

[EK77WNCL]

Teevee.. Sorry, not to hijack the thread. What might that pub be called?

I really don't think there's much need for runway extensions anymore. Airports like Leeds, Newcastle, Bristol, Liverpool etc. have managed for decades with these runways, and in the past with far inferior aircraft technology.

The future is Dreamliners, A350's, 737 MAX's, A320neo's, A330neo's, 777X's and the elusive MOM aircraft.

Anything that the A300/A310, 767, 737 classics, 1st gen A320/A321, A330ceo and 757 did out of these airports on a daily basis from the 80's onwards. These aircraft can do better.

We are now in a situation where 10+ hour long haul flights are perfectly possible, non stop from the likes of Bristol's 6500ft runway, thanks to the 787. The 737 MAX means that Cork's 7000ft is perfectly ample for a non stop flight to New England.

It's never been more pertinent to say "it's not how long it is, it's what you do with it"

[Airbanda]

Ok maybe a silly question . Is there land to the west of LBA suitable for a replacement Runway of decent length and orientation ?

IIRC the land slopes away pretty sharply on that side before rising again towards Bramhope. Topography might allow a runway on broadly current orientation but not anything on a conventional broadly E/W alignment. Any such work would be a complete rebuild on larger scale than that carried out in mid sixties (R/W 15/33 and 'new' terminal), far too costly.

A short extension towards Horsforth (ie 32 end) looks possible but would involve some heroic landfilling or a Funchal type viaduct.

There was some talk ten or more years ago of some minor work at that end that would improve matters for autolands which, at least on some types, tend to float down the slope and land after the TDZ requiring heavy braking etc.

Don't know what became of that 'plan'.

NB: Checking an OS map for this I note it still shows Springfield School in the junction of Scotland Lane and Whtehouse Lanes. It's nearly 30 years since the site closed as a School. Much of it's surrounding land is now under the airport but I believe the building is still extant and in commercial use.

[Tagron]

The accident to G-BBAI was not caused in any way by GPWS activity. A hard GPWS "Pull Up" command would have required a mandatory go-around, then as now. "Terrain" warnings on final approach in hilly terrain were treated as nuisance warnings and would not of themselves be the cause of deviation from the final stages of a stabilised approach. Modern day EGPWS takes care of the problem ,as already noted above.

The approach was an SRA onto RW14, there being no RW14 ILS in those days. The slope was 3.5 degrees and the threshold was displaced, both for obstacle clearance reasons.

The AAIB accident report concentrated on issues such as the braking capabilities and certification of the L1011, wet runway friction and the effect of the dished profile of the touchdown zone. The landing weight was close to the performance limited Regulated Landing Weight.

[Teevee]

EK, sorry I can't remember! I found it by accident and have since moved so only been there once! Had been on the top of the Chevin enjoying the peace and quiet and watching a few approaches then on the way back across the top to the main road I saw it, pulled into the car park and was really surprised to find it practically on the runway heading with the runway below. It really was a splendid view! I'll see if I can find it! From what I can find I suspect it was the Royalty

[Mooncrest]

It is The Royalty.

[anothertyke]

A short extension towards Horsforth (ie 32 end) looks possible but would involve some heroic landfilling or a Funchal type viaduct.





That's where the main option for the airport access road is going. Can't see it at that end. Anyway the issues are wind, fog and occasionally snow. A longer runway doesn't help with any of them does it?

[Suzeman]

It is The Royalty.

Everything you need to know here ;)

https://whatpub.com/pubs/LEE/442/royalty-otley

[Airbanda]

That's where the main option for the airport access road is going. Can't see it at that end. Anyway the issues are wind, fog and occasionally snow. A longer runway doesn't help with any of them does it?

If they're putting the access road there (where the A1/M1 link would once have gone!) it might make the groundwork for a short extension easier, or at least share cost between two projects. One of the issues is that with LDA significantly less than 2000m the runway is too short for some operators. Won't help with wind but problem in fog can be inability to take a slight tailwind on 32. A bit more runway might help there?

[A300BOY]

More landing distance would help in fog,crosswind or contaminated runway situations.

Its a no brainer but as has been said before, little or no business case to do so. Yorkshire folk are happy to cross the hills to Manchester and it get easier all the time.

[GdLSF]

That's alright for people around Leeds/Bradford, what about us on the East Coast?

[A300BOY]

I assume the train journey to Manchester Airport is pretty straight forward from the east coast and should get better in the next few years.
Its not what I want to happen but it seems to be the way it is going with bucket and spade flights from Lba and business and Long haul plus many more bucket and spade destinations from Manchester.

[paully]

Don`t forget Liverpool with another choice for the bucket and spade runs. In the end its down to price, mostly cheaper (often by a lot) from there.But more flights giving more choice.Trains run straight into Manchester airport,from Leeds/Dewsbury/Huddersfield, doing away with car journeys and parking costs. LBA prices can too often be uncompetitive as well as having to use a car to get there, and Yorkshire folk won`t waste money.....ever:ok:

[zed3]

When I lived in The Netherlands, MAN was my regular trip from DUS with BA. No problems, easy trip with train to the East Coast every hour. Now retired and living on the East Coast and seemingly MAN being evermore difficult we use LBA. KLM is a regular choice and LBA is a 75+ drive... better than 3 hours on the train. LBA prices with KLM are good... parking is good, better than HUY or MME which are equidistant. If only LBA could improve the access, that would be great.

[EGPO]

Have you ever thought of trying Flybe at DSA they operate AMS granted timings could be better , but they do have agreements with a fair few airlines .
I thought actually KLM was one of them.

[SWBKCB]

I assume the train journey to Manchester Airport is pretty straight forward from the east coast and should get better in the next few years.

Straightforward, but not a great experience - we're not talking cutting edge here! More Thomas the Tank Engine than Bullet Train!

[paully]

Trans Pennine who do those routes are refurbing already and taking delivery of new trains in the next year or so. I use them quite a bit and they are a long way from the `Thomas` type and certainly cutting edge over a lengthy queue on the M62 or even Leeds Ring Road, both of which are daily happenings :ok:

[chaps1954]

Yes I agree Pauly went on one last night and very nice indeed

[tigertanaka]

When I lived in The Netherlands, MAN was my regular trip from DUS with BA. No problems, easy trip with train to the East Coast every hour. Now retired and living on the East Coast and seemingly MAN being evermore difficult we use LBA. KLM is a regular choice and LBA is a 75+ drive... better than 3 hours on the train. LBA prices with KLM are good... parking is good, better than HUY or MME which are equidistant. If only LBA could improve the access, that would be great.

If you ever use MME, park at the St George Hotel which is 2 minutes walk to the terminal. Their prices are about 1/3 of the airport pre-pay rate.

In my experience, LBA is expensive if you are only going away for a few days.

[EK77WNCL]

Just used Leeds Bradford this weekend for the first time in about 5 years, not much has changed. I'd use the word "functional" I think. But the road/transport situation leaves a lot to be desired I must admit.

Originally we had planned to get the train from Newcastle, and the bus to the airport, but our train was cancelled, and the next one wouldn't have gotten us to the airport in time for our flight. So I had to rush home for the car and drive down instead.

I don't know if it was just Apple Maps taking the mickey, but, following her instructions on the fastest route, we took the A1, A19 and A168 to the A59/A658... Which seemed like a bit of a trek and I was dubious as to whether I was actually on the main roads... That was until the journey back today where something went seriously wrong and we didn't join the A1M until Boroughbridge!

I wouldn't say any of this would stop me using LBA again in the future, but it does fall short in some areas compared to some other UK airports

[N707ZS]

EK77WNCL why didn't you use Newcastle? Route A1 A59 A658 no idea why you went onto the A19.

[LBIA]

Oh dear! The might be some tears before bed time, because it looks like all the naysayers who said the Leeds/Bradford - London Heathrow was just slot sitting exercise for British Airways might be about to be proven right after 4 years of service.

The route has been up until now operated up to 20x wekly (3x daily Sun-Fri and 2x Sat) using A319 equipment.
The planned filing for summer 2018 schedule shows it operating at just 10x weekly (2x Mon, Thu, Fri & 1x daily Sat, Sun, Tue & Wed) still using Airbus A319.

Its such a shame if true, as the been getting some really good passenger loads recently...

[Lee J]

Just out of interest, how often do you take this route?

At the end of the day, if the route was in demand and profitable it would be continuing at the current frequency, it obviously isn't so there really isn't any shame?

[EK77WNCL]

N707ZS, had there been NCL-RIX flights, 100% I would have used NCL, and paid any extra to do so.

I went on the A19 because my sat nav told me I could save 15 minutes

[Harry Wayfarers]

Not necessarily so, those A319's, perhaps the smallest type that BA operate at LHR, are utilising slots that could be utilised by anything up to A380 size, that thousands of more passengers per week thru LHR for BA.

Both Brymon and Manx had successful and profitable routes thru LHR but guess who nabbed their LHR slots in favour of larger equipments?

[Navpi]

I would be intensely annoyed if I was a supporter of LBA.

I believe the load factors here were very healthy and yet seemingly BA have tossed away a swathe of loyalty customers who will now travel to Manchester or Amsterdam.

Business is business but that effectively is another UK domestic route dropped. One a day is of no use, 2 isn't much better!

Poor show!

[Plane.Silly]

Don't think they've have taken it 'lightly' they're only focused on the end goal (money). and they probably see better value on their LHR slots than services to LBA

most think they're being Greedy, but their a private company so it's up to them at the end of the day

[160to4DME]

If only it was located at Church Fenton.. :O

[Skipness One Echo]

Navpi it’s a slot sitter. Unlike Inverness which has grown and has some pretty strong p2p and hefty prices in summer, LBA doesn’t fit. Without a nightstopper it’s not a serious contender for getting to London on business and the times are just poor for too many connections.
It’s well intentioned but you can bet there those in BA demanding the slots be used elsewhere. Just look at how low some of the fares are which gives a clue on uptake. BA are only half trying here.

[Harry Wayfarers]

For connections LBA has been very well served for decades to/from AMS and is perhaps located a little too close to MAN.

[anothertyke]

It will all come right in 2030 when runway 3 opens. We have been promised R3 will deliver big improvements in regional connectivity. That's three years before HS2 revolutionises our economy.

[canberra97]

Was that intended as a humorous comment, do you honestly believe that?

[anothertyke]

Sorry I really can't be doing with these emojis. But O/T the Parliament TV show of the DfT evidence to the Transport Committee 4pm 4/12/17 makes interesting viewing for anyone interested in R3 and the National Policy Statement. The regional connectivity dimension figures quite strongly in the DfT thinking.

Of course I appreciate that Leeds/Bradford is not Inverness or Newquay but even so this is a message that the pattern of air connectivity to the hub will probably never go back to what it looked like forty years ago and the Viscounts.

[LBIA]

3x BA Heathrow diverts 1x A319 & 2x A320's night stopped Leeds. So it can be done...

[Helen49]

There was a Sunday afternoon back in the 80's when with an almost identical weather situation LBA took a significant number of BA 111s divertied from Manchester. On that occasion the warm air advanced a little further north east and LBA itself became inches deep in snow! The diverted aircraft were there until late next day.

The days when the tables are turned and LBA becomes the recipient of diversions are rare but good to see!

[anothertyke]

3x BA Heathrow diverts 1x A319 & 2x A320's night stopped Leeds. So it can be done...


Where were they originating from and what happened to the passengers? Did they go by rail or stay the night in Leeds and fly back?

[Harry Wayfarers]

British Airways: 50,000 passengers stranded after de-icing meltdown at Heathrow | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/british-airways-50000-passengers-stranded-de-icing-meltdown-heathrow-delays-diversions-a8102761.html)

Passengers from Newcastle got no further than Leeds-Bradford, where they were joined by confused travellers from Kiev and Warsaw. Back on Tyneside, Newcastle airport welcomed divertees from Paris, Reykjavik, Helsinki, Frankfurt and Athens; Frank Durrell tweeted once more: “You suck. Diverted us to Newcastle. Why didn’t you just let us stay in Athens and fly us back tomorrow?”


Passengers from Zurich, Zagreb, Vienna, Gibraltar, Nice and Madrid are mingling in Cardiff. Milan, Prague and Berlin passengers had an unexpected visit to Bournemouth, while along the road BA travellers from Geneva and Krakow congregated in Southampton.



The late-night passengers from Istanbul flew around in circles over the Home Counties for a while, hopeful of landing, before diverting to Liverpool.

[LEEDS APPROACH]

Was the (BA) LHR - LBA a slot a sitter? 100% NO. The slots at Heathrow were just as valuable 5 years ago when the Yeadon service first operated. Has the route failed to attract enough patrons - 100% YES. It was as predictable as day follows night! Simple!- it goes the same way as Cork, Copenhagen, Brussels, Glasgow, Madrid, Toulouse, Exeter, Milan, Islamabad, Belfast Aldergrove etc etc etc. It is the same reason why Paris has reduced from double daily to less than a flight a day. The same reason why AMS continues to reduce. Route after route after route not being able to attract enough passengers/yield.

Stop blaming BA, EasyJet, Vueling, SAS, PIA, Loganair etc etc etc who apparently, according to local spotters, don't know what they are doing. "When will they realise the potential?" - they say! They know the potential - that's why they leave (like Bridgepoint)

LBA is in completely the WRONG LOCATION to tap the potential gigantic Yorkshire population catchment. It's got zero to do with Brexit! Do not be misled. If 1.5 million South Yorkshire people would much much rather travel further to EMA or MAN rather than a much shorter distance of Yorkshire's main airport on a hill in a housing estate then that airport is catastrophically failing in serving Yorkshire! Those 1.5 million people are CRITICALLY needed if a shuttle to Heathrow is to work. Hence it does not work! Reduction.

Bridgepoint should be congratulated for doing everything they possibly could to induce growth. I do not expect the new management to do the same [as it costs an awful lot of money]. Nobody pours money down the drain. LBA is a drain.

I am Yeadon Yeadon Yeadon through and through - but as a civil airport it is a shambolic, scandalous squandering disgrace that has cost Yorkshire and the North East of England Billions of Pounds and exported that wealth, jobs, investment, tourism directly West of the Pennines where the airport is correctly located and connected.

[chaps1954]

Hasn`t Leeds just posted record passenger levels, and obviously BHX is is in the wrong place as they have just lost 5 airlines, I remember MAN lost a hatfull of airlines one year it just pulled it`s self together and got on with it. Jet2 has put a fantastic operation in place at LBA and are creaming the market. I know you want Church Fenton but how much money needs spending on the place and all infrastructure because it basically is a bog standard RAF training aerodrome with little or no facilities, I am sure the runway would need rebuilding for a start as it is old and not built for heavy airliners as are the taxiways so all in all might as well start with a brand new field which aint going to happen.

[EGPO]

For connections LBA has been very well served for decades to/from AMS and is perhaps located a little too close to MAN.

Too close to MAN? Wonder if DSA asked nicely if BA would go there. :) - said in jest!
Though I guess LCY is not 100% impossible .
Though think I read both in an aviation publication. And a Google story HUY were supposed to be in the running for a BA- London service ( City).

[Harry Wayfarers]

Can Church Fenton handle containerised baggage, BA are asking?

[N707ZS]

They could probably get a tractor with forks from the strawberry farm!

[Bearpit]

Looks like Leeds also lost the planned based A320 for next summer. Now showing inbound only aircraft and like Luton, just Turkey and Palma on sale. Bit strange as only sale for a few weeks.

[inOban]

TCX gave what amounts to a profits warning on Dec 1st. Clearly they are not only closing more of their shops, they are cutting back the holidays on offer to meet likely demand. The combination of Jet2 and a flatlining economy....

[Jerry123]

Or maybe they just can't get the leased aircraft for those bases at a price that isn't extorniate. Both like CWL were going to be A320 bases and TCX damp leases them usually through Avion Express or Smartwings and neither may have the aircraft available or may want to charge too much to make the bases profitable.

[LiamNCL]

Thomas Cook have acquired 4x Monarch A321 and take 6 Condor A321 in the new year which looks like they will be operating all their flights on their own A/C without the need of leasing anything for LBA and LTN maybe that was a factor in the decison.

[Jerry123]

They have CWL down for for an A320. Though a Thomas Cook A321 or an A320 would be great it'll probably be an Avion Express again so there should be 1 leased aircraft i believe.

[LAX_LHR]

Thomas Cook have acquired 2 A320 from Belgium and Germany so all flights could well be in house next summer.

[LiamNCL]

They still have NCL down as 2X A321 1x A320 aswell but i doubt those seat maps are fully up to date right now when they will literally have enough A321 to cover all their short/med haul routes next summer on their own.

LAX-LHR - I believe the A320's are based in PMI from next summer.

[Jerry123]

So maybe there is hope for an actual Thomas Cook A321 next year!

[LBIA]

6x Manchester diverts into Leeds this morning due to fog on other side of hill.

3x Loganair = DO328 from Norwich, ERJ145 from Inverness & Saab 340 from Glasgow
2x Flybe = Dash 8-Q400 from Exeter & ATR72 from Isle of Man
1x Aer Lingus Regional = ATR72 from Cork

[Plane.Silly]

Makes a change, normally it's the other way around :p

[LBIA]

Thomas Cook now have both Antalya and Dalaman operating 2x weekly on W-legs using A321. They also have Air Europa B738 operating the 1x weekly Palma.

[LBIA]

3x more diverts handled at Leeds tonight due to fog at Liverpool.

1x Flybe = ATR72 from Isle of Man
2x Ryanair = B737-800's from Oporto and Sofia

[LBIA]

Jet2 have 3x Xmas Market weekend breaks on sale for next year.

Cologne, Copenhagen and Vienna.

Jet2 are also relaunching Leeds - Krakrow route operating 2x weekly (Mon & Fri) Boeing 737-300 from November 2018.
This will be in direct competition against Ryanairs 4x weekly (Tue, Thu, Sat & Sun) service.

[LBIA]

Spanish charter airline Albastar will be a new operator into Leeds next summer 2018 operating the Sunday service to Palma for TUi.

PMI LBA = 08:00 - 09:50
LBA-PMI = 10:40 - 14:25

[LBIA]

Flybe look to replacing one of two based Eastern Jetstream 41s with a Saab 2000 next summer.

It's looks to be operating the morning and evening LBA-SOU-LBA rotation along with the mid-moring northbound and afternoon southbound LBA-ABZ-LBA rotation.

I really hope it improves the reliability of the service, as the has been a lot of cancellations recently.

[LEEDS APPROACH]

So a local paper have at last learned that BA are reducing the LHR service. I very much doubt anyone actually contacted that newspaper. The journalism matches the airport - both are third rate. The problem with local enthusiasts is their complete inability to A, smell airport operator fake/fair weather news and B, to realise why the airport is a catastrophic failure.

As for BA they join a long, long list of airlines and former airport operators who eventually learn that if your airport is in the wrong location you will not be able to fill the planes! (especially if your near neighbours have put their airports in the correct location). For Yorkshire and the whole North East of England to benefit the airport that serves the most populous part of Yorkshire must be slightly geographically moved. You Yeadon spotters need to stop moaning about BA, Loganair, Vueling, EasyJet etc etc you are swimming against a tide of overwhelming evidence. 1 well located and connected fully functioning airport for Yorkshire [and 9 million people in the North East] will turn the reported losses into profits.

[GrahamK]

Leeds Approach, you must mean Newcastle as the North East Airport surely? There is a role for Durham Tees Valley too. Leeds/Doncaster etc are not what I would call North East

[LBIA]

Leeds Approach it's took you so long to catch up, where have you been for past 5 weeks?.

Ah well at least now you can go back to sleep and dream about Church Fenton International again.

[LBAflyer22]

And where are you locating this 'new' airport?

[Jerry123]

And who will pay for it?

[Flightrider]

When does pantomime season finish?

[pug]

Oh, Church Fenton, with the new terminal in Hangar 3 (*ahem* film studio).

[Harry Wayfarers]

With due respect guys ... Stop feeding the troll :)

[canberra97]

There seems to be some fairly new posters to Pprune of late who don't appreciate what others feel regarding the continuous and ridiculous rants by the number 1 troll as in Leeds Approach so for the sake of humanity please don't feed this Troll because he has a one man agenda and just won't let it go and by new members who are not aware of these rants your feeding this Troll as your a new audience for him as we have read the same continuous rants for far too long now and personally I just wish that he could get a one way ticket far away from Pprune.

[Plane.Silly]

arguing about it all isn't going to help anyone

New topic

More than 100 jobs up for grabs at LBA. Wouldn't happen if the airport was struggling now, would it?

Want to work at Leeds Bradford Airport? More than 100 jobs on offer - Leeds Live (http://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/want-work-leeds-bradford-airport-14132021)

[LEEDS APPROACH]

More diversions today at 700ft ish AMSL after a little wet snow. People asking why a motorway has not been build to LBA need help. You do not spend millions of pounds connecting up to something that is clearly in the wrong location and cannot properly function as a modern 21st century passenger airport. Wow! It is not even a debate.

[LEEDS APPROACH]

Yes the ring road in Leeds is ridiculous but it pales into insignificance compared to LBA. Let's build a motorway to one of the shortest, most elevated crosswind runways in Britain.

I am sure there is a disease called LBAitis that stops grown men and women having rational thought!

[LEEDS APPROACH]

I completely agree with you. We must place airports in the safest locations. 700ft hill tops are prone to freezing rain and freezing fog (which we have currently).

[Mooncrest]

Just that. It's gone !

[A300BOY]

So where has it gone and why ?

[tigertanaka]

A thread that is spoiled by the antics of a single agenda poster.

[brian_dromey]

Its been renamed Church Fenton International Aerodrome...

[LBAflyer22]

The spineless moderators cannot cope with people putting the narrow minded bigot in his place so seem to have deleted it.

[Harry Wayfarers]

It was actually a member from Southampton that went off in a rant bitching to the mods that his posts had been deleted whilst other posts remained.

[LBAflyer22]

The majority of other posts were deleted. Anyway the point remains ... they could of blocked his account and stopped all this weeks ago but as i've already said they don't really have a spine to stand up to someone like him.

[Harry Wayfarers]

Keep talking about the mods like that and you are likely to become deleted!

[paully]

It was actually a member from Southampton that went off in a rant bitching to the mods that his posts had been deleted whilst other posts remained.


Not for the first time talking nonsense Harry..You don`t know the fact, I do and you are very wrong.(and not for the first time) End of..

However its puzzling as to why but then things just get more bizarre on here almost daily

[canberra97]

It was actually a member from Southampton that went off in a rant bitching to the mods that his posts had been deleted whilst other posts remained.

Yeah and with your usual arrogant attitude you could have done the same so don't put this down to me and single me out for the closure of the Leeds thread. We we are all aware of the situation concerning the individual poster under the name of LA and at least I wasn't spineless to make my point!

Double standards on your part Harry but that doesn't surprise me at all with you.

Has it crossed anyone else's mind that Leeds Approach may very well be a Mod on this site, if that is the case its laughable and totally demeans Pprune and makes a mockery of us all.

Harry my old codger if you have any grievances with me I would appreciate a personal message so I can have a 'rant' with you!

[paully]

I think most of us have arrived at the same suspicion all at the same time.Worrying:hmm:

[Planespeaking]

Oh dear, how sad. Some of us are old enough to remember when we were thrilled to read of new airlines possibly operating from our local airport, or disappointed if not.

This stripping of flesh from social media bones because of different opinions is not only pathetic, but dangerous.

Grow up get broad shoulders and get over it, other wise these forums will cease to exist.

[canberra97]

Planespeaking

I agree with your comments regarding social media but unless you have been living under a rock I take it that your totally aware that we're discussing ONE individual here.

To sum up that individual up I will use two words from your above post,

'is only pathetic but dangerous'!

[PPRuNe Towers]

Right you paranoid muttering ne'er do wells - especially LBAflyer22.

Quit your pathetic whinging because not one of you used the warning road sign below each user to complain about any trolls or one topic monomaniacs.

None of you. Ever.

We have 26 years of reported post records to show it and that's why a load of moaning posts were deleted.

The lads on the other end of the M62 discovered using that warning roadsign gave them instantaneous relief with 6 posturing posers heaved off the site altogether.

Stop bleating and contact us because if it builds up again LBA goes off the site completely.

Rob

[LBIA]

Okay glad action has been taken. Just sad all my worthwhile posts have been deleted..

Come on guys let's make this a new start. Love it or hate it LBA is here to stay and is growing with over 4 million pax passing through the terminal in the last 12 months.
The new Aussies owners seem like the want to invest and the CEO who has his head screwed on, the future is bright!

[canberra97]

So we do have a Moderator after all and I thought they were mythical creatures but my question is what has taken you so long to comment as surely you and other moderators have been monitoring the situation on these threads regardless of any lack of use regarding the 'warning road sign'!

It's all to very easy to delete posts and even the entire Leeds thread but we're not being paranoid far from it we're annoyed the two words may rhythm but have two totally different meanings and the individual user were all posting about gets away with it every time, where we're the moderators then!

Considering that your a moderator your tone isn't really appropriate and definitely not worded in a professional manner.

Am glad your not a sport referee :-)

[PPRuNe Towers]

Have you finished bleating or do I just close the thread as many of you seem to prefer handbagging each other over discussing LBA?

Report posts or start your own website.

Rob

[inOban]

I agree. Several of the posters are as bad as each other. If you can't be constructive, keep quiet.

[Jetdriver]

Moderation on this forum takes a disproportionate amount of time in comparison with many of the others. For the most part it amounts to removing the sort of “look at me” stuff that manifests itself in such things as: ridiculous colours/fonts/sizing, quoting the entire post that precedes the submitted 3 word reply; profanity; the competitive use of multiple forms of question marks/exclamation marks/ emoticons etc; the random insertion of some unrelated picture or youtube clip. Then there is the removal of the daily spam merchants. Then there is the approvals for new posters, the removal of multiple postings. All of this is wrapped up by keeping the threads properly pruned and tidy and volume bound so that threads don’t become too voluminous or unwealdy. After 20 years of practice that takes about 40 minutes twice a day on this one forum alone. Then there are the other forums.

Moderation within this forum doesn’t usually extend to the views or nuances of each individual poster provided they aren’t persistent offenders of the above generalities. As PPRuNe Towers has said above, if you have a complaint.....then report it! If we consider it valid it will be actioned, however, in all instances it will be looked at.

I spend about 2 or 3 Hours a day (on average) with a cyber mop & bucket keeping many of the forums in some semblance of tidiness and order, for the benefit of the site and for benefit of its users. I don’t expect every action to be universally popular, but the idea that each action (around 150 a day) is going to generate a written explanation is both risible and wishful thinking! There are a couple of dozen equally active moderators so that global coverage is around the clock.

Leeds-6 had become beyond tiresome, however....

This thread is going to be absorbed into the original thread 6 (tomorrow). It is going to be pruned, visible but closed, and the last “meaningful” posts will be the starter pack for Leeds-7.

[LEEDS APPROACH]

..............