ID requirements coming for domestic flights

[kaz3g]

Government moves to bolster domestic airport security with photo identification requirements - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-05/government-moves-to-boost-airport-security-with-photo-id/9020504)

I think we can forget any relaxation of the dreaded ASIC rules.

Kaz

[YPJT]

A lot of people will be saying not before time. AFP and state police have been screaming out for this for ages. In the US, you don't enter the sterile area without a boarding pass and positive ID by the friendly TSA staff.

I think we can forget any relaxation of the dreaded ASIC rules
Not a snowballs chance in hell. Never was really.

[gerry111]

I think we can forget any relaxation of the dreaded ASIC rules. Kaz

I suspect that as the international security industry becomes further vertically integrated, that will be one outcome.

[Duck Pilot]

How long has this taken to get through? Common sense and easily managed check in my opinion.

Only problem might be for young children if they haven't got a passport.

[Checklist Charlie]

Only problem might be for young children if they haven't got a passport.

Or a drivers licence

CC

[StickWithTheTruth]

Seems strange how most of the airlines demanded photo ID for years but then they dropped the requirement.

Perhaps they can modify the self-service kiosks to scan licenses... will cost a bit and take a while though. If an ATM can scan a hand written cheque these days, I'm sure it can be done easily enough. If you have kids, perhaps the kiosk supervisor can authorize them in the system, like when you have an unexpected item in the bagging area at Coles.

Shouldn't pose too many issues if approached sensibly.

[Checklist Charlie]

Shouldn't pose too many issues if approached sensibly.

Therein lies the problem.

I wonder if this is not another attempt to introduce the "Australia Card".

CC

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Seems strange how most of the airlines demanded photo ID for years but then they dropped the requirement.

Perhaps because it was realised that there wasn't really a problem to solve. Now our police see a chance to use a convenient situation to further their own agenda. This in all truth will have nothing to do with combating "terrorism". If a fugitive can get in a car, train or bus and travel anywhere in this country they want to anonymously, what difference does it make if they fly the same way. It isn't about any threat to domestic aviation we are talking about, it is just attempts to limit methods of travel for a very, very, very small minority of people, and further the empire building by unaccountable bureaucracies. Tacking it on the back of the Etihad incident where it was an International flight where you are required to show photo ID and real names were used anyway is just opportunistic b/s at it's best.

Between 2013 and 2016, 60 people were charged with flying under false names.
That they caught out of a conservative 240 million domestic travellers in those 4 years. And given that they missed all the rest of the people that did fly under a false name (for whatever reason they might have), what was the negative impact on domestic aviation? Zero!

Flying in this country has become so cheap that it is a pretty basic commodity now. Airlines just want a bum on a seat. As far as they are concerned, if they could get away with people using a tap'n'go card they would. What makes air travel any different to other forms of travel?

[StickWithTheTruth]

There is a problem.

Right now, nothing stops someone from booking a flight in the name of Han Solo.

[no_one]

There is a problem.

Right now, nothing stops someone from booking a flight in the name of Han Solo.

Or Terry Wrist....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wK_yQ6p8hU

[YPJT]

Early days yet so not a lot of detail.
I wonder what ID will be acceptable? WIll it have to have a photo so therefore passport, DL, ASIC, proof of age or other govt issued card?

What about people who have none of those?

Anyone in airline ground ops been briefed yet. I was told the only training some have done is in the passport verification for the purpose of checking in intl transfer pax at domestic ports.

[neville_nobody]

I wonder what ID will be acceptable? WIll it have to have a photo so therefore passport, DL, ASIC, proof of age or other govt issued card?

An ASIC is not a valid for of ID. It would have to be driver's license, ID card, Passport or some forms of Government ID (ie Military).

The real issue is going to be online or Kiosk check-in. If this gets up then it's going to be an absolute nightmare, as I can't see how they can check your ID without a physical person doing it. That will mean more staff and more cost to the airline.

I don't quite see the argument for checking ID, because if you are a serious criminal or terrorist you will probably have some form of fake ID anyway. The argument has always been that screening of bags and pax negates the reason to check everyone's ID. It all sounds like more of clampdown by the government to basically bring a Police State to Australia.

[kaz3g]

It's all about biometrics and they can archive your details from your drivers licence and/or passport.

Both of these documents are contingent on production of a birth certificate so I'm dashed if I can understand why we now have to again produce a BC in order to renew an ASIC. Fair enough the first time, perhaps, but why thereafter?

Kaz

[gerry111]

I sat for my driver's licence learner's permit written exam, at a police station in metropolitan S.A. during 1974. I gave the police my name and said that I was 16. (No other proof was sought.)

(Actually the Holden Hill police station then didn't have seating, so I stood.)

Years later, I converted my S.A. paper licence to a NSW paper licence also. Some years afterwards, I was able to have a photo licence for both states. Then computers struck and licences were linked between states. (That was an inconvenience as my "still driveable" potential demerit points were reduced from 23 to 11.)

So my NSW Driver's licence remains a primary form of identification along with bank accounts etc. But I've never really been tested as to my real identity.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Right now, nothing stops someone from booking a flight in the name of Han Solo.

So who cares if they do? Do the FA's walk down the aisle addressing each passenger by name? What actual difference does it make?

[Flying Binghi]

Considering them terrorist chaps have been happy enough to plant a device in the luggage of an unsuspecting dupe you've gotta wonder what is the point of the ID check? All luggage and persons still need to be checked no matter what their name is.

Italy has a different experience:

"...The fight against Italy’s formidably organised criminals has given its police a wealth of experience in monitoring tightly knit target groups..."

?Mafia Effect? Keeps Islamic Terrorism at Bay in Italy: Report - Breitbart (http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/10/06/report-mafia-effect-keeps-islamic-terrorism-bay-italy/)





.

[YPJT]

An ASIC is not a valid for of ID
Maybe not for a 100 point check at the bank or post office but given its use in the past at check in, I'd comfortably make a pretty substantial bet that it will be accepted.

It will most likely be an airline or ground agent at the boarding gate doing the checks. To do it prior to screening would preclude all but travelling pax into sterile areas. Although that's how it's done in the US

I don't believe the Department pushed this agenda. They are on record as saying they are concerned with what goes onto an aircraft not who. This has long been a concern of AFP and state police.

[TULSAMI]

Good luck identifying me in my fully clad burqa you bigot

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

This has long been a concern of AFP and state police.
So let the cops make the case for ID checks at any and all State Border crossings and at checkpoints on roads and railways between major intra state cities, so that there is consistancy with seeing which fugitives are moving around the country. Let's see how far that gets them. It may well have been a concern, but they have done nothing to address it, but now there is a soft target because everyone is brainwashed into blindly accepting security restrictions when aviation is mentioned. And bonus! the cops can get others to do the work for them, and double bonus! the mug punters pay for it themselves!

[neville_nobody]

Yeah exactly. Why can you jump on a train or bus with no security and no ID, but suddenly aeroplanes need to know the identity of everybody.

Smells very much like an agenda rather than a sensible policy. If everybody is screened what does it matter if people are not who they say they are? It's an illogical argument. Since when is it a crime to step onto an aeroplane?

The other problem for the government in this argument is that in the incident that started the review they actually had the identity of the passengers as it was an international flight and they still managed not to detect them.

[Sunfish]

you now have number plate recognition on all major highways and in many police cars. After Domestic air travel ID comes Interstate bus and train ID. The orwellian objective is total information awareness.

[gerry111]

Yeah exactly. Why can you jump on a train or bus with no security and no ID, but suddenly aeroplanes need to know the identity of everybody.

That's easy to answer! Politicians and senior public servants don't use public transport.

[Derfred]

Apparently the guy who pie-faced AJ and was banned from flying QF has been suspected of flying QF under a false name.

Fair enough.

[Flying Binghi]

...The orwellian objective is total information awareness.



Yep!... corruption runs deep...

A recent ministerial press release claimed 5,600 illegal guns seized:

"...Justice Minister Michael Keenan’s dramatic announcement in March 2017 that the ‘National Anti-Gang Squad’ (NAGS) had seized ‘more than 5,600 illegal firearms since 2013’.

This is not actually NAGS main job by the way, it’s incidental, mostly they focus on criminal gangs like the ones the government imports wholesale in the refugee and immigration inflow. Somali Apex gangs, Islamic terrorist and drug gangs, those sort of multiculti New Australians the luvvies rhapsodise over.

The gullible (if not cretinous) MSM swallowed this without a blink, of course. But not SSAA’s Kate Fantinel. She wondered about it, and dug into it. Should be a name for that sort of thing – ‘basic journalism’ springs to mind as a contender. And she seems to have met a stone wall from the Minister’s office. So she dug deeper. After a lot of effort she found that the much-hyped ‘National Anti-Gang Squad’ seizures ‘more than 5,600 illegal firearms since 2013’ was a load of bollocks.

The AFP, who the Minister’s staff left holding THEIR press-release-baby, at least responded as best they could. Must have been entertaining for them, given the blatant lies of the press release. They had records of 4,785 firearms parts allegedly bound for Australia being seized in the USA (not in Australia and there was no incontrovertible proof that they were Australia-bound), of these 4,547 were unmarked 1911 pistol frames, 96 were semi-automatic pistol frames, 136 were AR-15 receivers and just six, six, were “automatic assault rifles” (read semi-automatics, probably AR-15 or similar).

Only 303 items were found in Australia: and all were merely parts including an upper and lower frame for a semi-auto rifle, 19 semi-auto 1911 pistol frames with identical serial numbers, six parts for 1911 pistols and 10kg of ammo.

In other words, the Minister’s staff wrote a press release which he or his chief of staff authorised for release, and that press release was entirely a fiction. The cruel would say it was a tissue of lies. The Minister bayed that he was in credit because “5,600 illegal guns had been seized” but it was just six all seized in the USA, the rest were parts, and only 303 of those parts were seized in Australia!..."

Marcus Classis: Lies, Damned Lies, Statistics and Ministerial Press Releases | Catallaxy Files (http://catallaxyfiles.com/2017/10/09/marcus-classis-lies-damned-lies-statistics-and-ministerial-press-releases/)





.

[YPJT]

This is really nothing to do with a terrorist threat. As I said before, AFP have been against the self check-in for a long time as it gave crims the ability to fly without being detected.