For the naysayers.

[fujii]

https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Manned-Flights-For-Passenger-Drone-229705-1.html

[Flying Binghi]

"...They plan to add a ballistic parachute,..."

That shows confidence in their product..:)

I'm looking forward to that Jetsons future though after somebody else works out all the bugs..:cool:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jetsons





.

[aroa]

Fantastic...the way of the future.
Flying a Robbo costs megabucks for a licence and is mechanically complex. Electric 4/6/8'copter is simple and easy to fly.

Altho my design isnt as shapely in the fuse, and has only 6 rotors...I have incorporated a central tube for a ballistic parachute.
Nothing wrong with that...having a safety feature to CYA is not a bad thing. It doesnt reflect on the quality of the idea or machine....its to save the operator and passengers lives in the event of some catastrophic failure of ??
Even a broken Robbie becomes a rock...and all the way to the ground...fatally.
Why not give yourself a chance of not becoming a rock.
There a vid about of another one in China, so...change is coming. Whoopeee !

[fujii]

[QUOTE=Flying Binghi;9914622]"...They plan to add a ballistic parachute,..."

That shows confidence in their product..:)

I'm looking forward to that Jetsons future though after somebody else works out all the bugs..:cool:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jetsons




I think Cirrus is confident in its product.

[Ascend Charlie]

CA$A is talking about Geo-Fencing to prevent drones and non-piloted machines from operating anywhere near anything.

These drone heli-taxis, apart from the technical aspects of making them fly, haven't got a chance of operating in a built-up area.

[rutan around]

These drone heli-taxis, apart from the technical aspects of making them fly, haven't got a chance of operating in a built-up area. Was it one of your ancestors that said this new thingy called an automobile will never beat horses because the law says a man waving a red flag must walk in front of it wherever it goes. (For safety of course):ugh:

[Flying Binghi]

Was it one of your ancestors that said this new thingy called an automobile will never beat horses because the law says a man waving a red flag must walk in front of it wherever it goes. (For safety of course)

I think it were only the Poms that had a red flag requirement. If you look at the actual way all the traffic interacted (Horses, trams, push carts, bicycles, etc) when cars first came out you'd probably see why the 'regulators' were a little confused about just what to do about it all.

Here's a film shot in a large Yank city before WW1 (note the lady's wearing Queen Vic era clothes) when there were likely only a dozen cars in the entire city. Note, the same cars are doing laps around the camera rig. Also note the pedestrians running helta skelta to avoid being run over by trams, cars and horse rigs. And most of the cars are right hand drive:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NINOxRxze9k

I suspect we are at a similar 'confused' stage with the new fanged drone traffic..:)








.

[Ascend Charlie]

Well, Rutan, where do you expect your UUUUber-heli-taxi to land to pick you up at your house, and to drop you at the Pitt St Mall? Your own front yard? The nearest park, full of kids?

[fujii]

Well, Rutan, where do you expect your UUUUber-heli-taxi to land to pick you up at your house, and to drop you at the Pitt St Mall? Your own front yard? The nearest park, full of kids?

I expect that initially they will operate to/from rooftops as do helicopters now only much cheaper, probably replacing helicopters. As acceptance grows, they will use dedicated terminals, perhaps built over train stations and multi storey car parks in the inner city. Use will be limited by lack of inagination.

[Ascend Charlie]

Fujii, there has never been a rooftop helipad in Oz, and probably never will, other than those for hospitals, and they are generally on top of the carpark.

The public has rejected piloted helicopters in populated areas, and has never allowed a CBD heliport in Sydney, except for a brief period on a wharf in Darling Harbour. Many a council now has a specific policy prohibiting helicopter landings in their areas.

Look at a rooftop, it is covered with mobile phone antennas, aircon units, flagpoles. The greatest rooftop helipad was Pan Am, and after the disaster when a chopper rolled over and killed people on the rooftop and a piece fell into the street and killed a pedestrian, it was shut down.

Who is going to supervise an arrival/departure? No building owner will permit Joe Blow to wait on the rooftop for his Uuuuber chopper without somebody to cover their backsides for liability. In fact, nobody is allowed on ANY rooftop without massive OHS precautions, coveralls, tie-downs, fences around the edges etc.

This jetson-like dream of zipping through the city streets like in 5th Element, landing on rooftops and over train stations has no chance of working in our NIMBY society.

[fujii]

Fujii, there has never been a rooftop helipad in Oz, and probably never will, other than those for hospitals, and they are generally on top of the carpark.

The public has rejected piloted helicopters in populated areas, and has never allowed a CBD heliport in Sydney, except for a brief period on a wharf in Darling Harbour. Many a council now has a specific policy prohibiting helicopter landings in their areas.

Look at a rooftop, it is covered with mobile phone antennas, aircon units, flagpoles. The greatest rooftop helipad was Pan Am, and after the disaster when a chopper rolled over and killed people on the rooftop and a piece fell into the street and killed a pedestrian, it was shut down.

Who is going to supervise an arrival/departure? No building owner will permit Joe Blow to wait on the rooftop for his Uuuuber chopper without somebody to cover their backsides for liability. In fact, nobody is allowed on ANY rooftop without massive OHS precautions, coveralls, tie-downs, fences around the edges etc.

This jetson-like dream of zipping through the city streets like in 5th Element, landing on rooftops and over train stations has no chance of working in our NIMBY society.

Those all sounds like last century arguments. The Royal Melbourne and Royal Children’s hospitals both have a HLS on the roof. The RCH actually has two. There are no obstructions because the designers planned ahead. The single Darling Harbour argument doesn’t stand up as the ones on the Yarra River in Melbourne have been successfully operated for years.

Basing your response on helicopters doesn’t stand either. Drones aren’t helicopters. The lift system is completely different. Instead of a large main and smaller tail rotor with associated failure problems, drones have multiple lift engines and rotors with designed in redundancy.

Another plus for drones is that they don’t carry hundreds of litres of flamable fuel.

Your rooftop OHS argument is also flawed. Many rooftops allow persons on then without the massive OHS (now WHS) precautions. They are often referred to as observation decks and used by the public. Melbourne has a rooftop cinema. There are rooftop bars. I was on a rooftop in Starbucks in Harajuku yesterday morning.

The change is coming.

[Ascend Charlie]

The Royal Melbourne and Royal Children’s hospitals both have a HLS on the roof.

Duh!! I said APART from hospitals. As a non-hospital, the Burj-al-Arab is the exception, but I understand there are very few PUBLIC-ACCESS helipads on rooftops, or attached to buildings.

The single Darling Harbour argument doesn’t stand up

Stand up against what? The likelihood of any heli landings anywhere in Sydney is microscopic. there is only one public-access heliport in Sydney, which is the one I helped set up in Parramatta in 1997. Landing anywhere else without written dispensations from councils is a legal minefield.

Drones aren’t helicopters. The lift system is completely different

What is different about a rotating aerofoil generating lift? Your drone doesn't need anti-torque, but neither do the Kamov, Kaman, Hughes 600 series etc. But your drone is different in having fixed pitch rotors, which have their own problems.

Many rooftops allow persons on then without the massive OHS (now WHS) precautions.

Duh! But they aren't sharing that rooftop with a pilotless drone, are they?

But dream on, the world needs dreamers, but get a realistic dream, not some CGI.

[fujii]

https://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/101/3816-full.html?ET=avweb:e3816:243235a:&st=email#229754

[Flying Binghi]

https://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/101/3816-full.html?ET=avweb:e3816:243235a:&st=email#229754

65 Knt cruise! Compared to today's relative ground vehicle speeds in a big city traffic gridlock that's probably faster then a car. The problem for drones will be the soon to arrive computer drive cars will speed up car traffic flow dramatically. A 65Knt airspeed may end up being slower then ground based computer controlled transport.

The big issue with airborne city commuters will be noise. With the increasing residential accomodation being built in the city's the last thing people will want is a swam of screaming drone traffic overhead as they sit outside sipping latte.





.

[fujii]

65kts is a tad over 120km/h and that’s in a straight line. That will take some beating in an urban environment.

[Ascend Charlie]

That will take some beating in an urban environment.

..."That sounds like a last-century argument..."

[Flying Binghi]

65kts is a tad over 120km/h and that’s in a straight line. That will take some beating in an urban environment.

If traffic fines wern't a concern the average motorbike rider would find 120km/h a comfortable speed around town..:)

As to the speed of computer controlled cars them computers 'think' a lot faster then we do. I'd imagine with an all car to car computer 'talk' link a comp-car could safely operate at the vehicles limits. Here's an amusing look at some comp-car intersection possibilities: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4SmJP8TdWTU

This is the more likely scenario: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r7_lwq3BfkY






.

[Ascend Charlie]

Binghi, that last computer sim looks like the opening scenes of the Dick Tracy cartoons from the 60s!

[aroa]

In huge cities like in Brazil...where they are into practicality over anal WHS...taxi choppers are routinely used to get across town...direct building to building top, saving great swags of time,by not battling the traffic on a circuitous route to get there.

Quieter drones will eventually be the replacement vehicle.
They can have a little red flag out the front too...but to indicate slip or skid as they go.

Probably have a ex Mars Robot, back on Earth after a re-fit as a "driver"

[rutan around]

Q What do you call blokes who think and act like this?

If traffic fines wern't a concern the average motorbike rider would find 120km/h a comfortable speed around town..:)A Temporary Australians.:}

[StickWithTheTruth]

gridlock that's probably faster then a car. The problem for drones will be the soon to arrive computer drive cars will speed up car traffic flow dramatically

Clearly you don't live in Melbourne or Sydney, let alone near their CBD's!

[patty50]

The problem for drones will be the soon to arrive computer drive cars will speed up car traffic flow dramatically.

.


Self-driving cars have so many challenges it isn't funny. The first ones were driving nearly 10 years ago, so far they've progressed from testing to...more testing. Compare the drones of 10 years ago to today.

Autonomous drones will be around well before autonomous cars are speeding up traffic flow. The benefits of autonomous drones don't require everyone else to have one as well.

[Flying Binghi]

Q What do you call blokes who think and act like this?
A Temporary Australians.

Yep. For the average motorbike rider 120km/hr around city streets would be safe enough as long as there were no other traffic/pedestrians/dogs on the road.

When you look at the extensive research done re motorbike accidents around town (rural is different) it is mainly the 'unexpected' car turning across the bikes line of travel that brings the bike down. If all the cars were computer controlled cars, i.e. drone cars, with vehicle to vehicle/bike 'awareness' then a drone car would have the ability to sense a bike coming along at 120km/hr and avoid an accident.

I suspect motorbikes will ultimately be banned from drone car roads though the way motor bikes have demonstrated the ease of driving around town at high speeds (we've all seen that daily commuter super bike go by us at warp speed and wondered how he does it year on year) gives a fair idea the speeds drone car traffic will attain. Considering there will be no more stopping for traffic lights the apparent speed benefit flying drones have at present will be negated.





.

[Flying Binghi]

Self-driving cars have so many challenges it isn't funny. The first ones were driving nearly 10 years ago, so far they've progressed from testing to...more testing. Compare the drones of 10 years ago to today.

Autonomous drones will be around well before autonomous cars are speeding up traffic flow. The benefits of autonomous drones don't require everyone else to have one as well.

I think the first computer drive car were being developed in the early 1980's. It were a van that were full of computer hardware.

No argument that flying drones are ahead of drone vehicles. Though the future may not be as far away as you think. Here's a short film of Melbourne traffic in 1910. Note the 1 car: https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=730_1507755653
A mere 20 years later and it were wall to wall cars and traffic jams...





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[Ascend Charlie]

Now, a Melbourne council wants to ban all remote-control items, be they toy cars, planes, drones etc from their areas.

And you still think these drongos will allow a full-sized helicopter to land in their parks or streets, without a pilot?

Will. Not. Ever. Happen.

[rutan around]

Charlie I'm marginally more optimistic than you. I know it takes far too long sometimes, but Drongos ,crooks and halfwits eventually are recognized for what they are.

A year or so ago at our local council elections we turfed out a puffed up hopeless mayor plus a number of useless councilors. Soon after the CEOs of the airport and council left to pursue other interests along with the useless airport 2IC and the arrogant hopeless ex politician who was chairman of the aerodrome board.

It's depressing that our town will never recoup the hundreds of millions of dollars these pretenders lost us but at least the bastards are gone.

It's a pity the incoming council didn't have the required guts to drag the lot of them through court. If nothing else it may have discouraged future trash from playing wide and loose with other peoples money.

[fujii]

I started this thread to show it will happen. Those against the idea use parochial arguments. There is a whole world outside some small Australian council.

[rutan around]

Those against the idea use parochial arguments.Fujii I'm sorry if you interpreted my council spray as being against innovation. Indeed the opposite is true. The reason for my post was to inspire others to rid themselves of the all too common handbrakes on our society.

Once the Naysayers are made powerless then the innovators can get on doing what they do even if they come from a small town. This is an aviation forum and I seem to recall a couple of lads from a small town called Dayton did rather well for themselves.

Maybe they had an enlightened council but more likely they were sensible like most of us and told their council nothing.:E

[fujii]

rutan, not at all. I thought it was a good example of power hungry minor bureaucrats.

[Flying Binghi]

Fujii I'm sorry if you interpreted my council spray as being against innovation. Indeed the opposite is true. The reason for my post was to inspire others to rid themselves of the all too common handbrakes on our society.

Once the Naysayers are made powerless then the innovators can get on doing what they do even if they come from a small town. This is an aviation forum and I seem to recall a couple of lads from a small town called Dayton did rather well for themselves.

Maybe they had an enlightened council but more likely they were sensible like most of us and told their council nothing.:E

I think you'll find there were no greeny muppets around there to say "nay"..:hmm:





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[Obidiah]

Once the Naysayers are made powerless then the innovators can get on doing what they do even if they come from a small town. This is an aviation forum and I seem to recall a couple of lads from a small town called Dayton did rather well for themselves.

Yes but they seemed to have grasped the basic principles quite well. The current iterations of supposed human carrying drones are hell bent on ignoring them.

There is a reason why helo's have mostly single rotors with low RPM high aspect ratio blades. Aside from the energy efficiencies and mass inertia capability and large disc area which makes autorotation capable it also has vastly less failure points.

Unless the current crop of multi multi engine drones have found the secret fountain of light weight energy they're screwed from the outset. I suspect they're all just one discarded wafting woolies shopping bag away from disaster.

[fujii]

https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Uber-Signs-With-NASA-to-Develop-Air-Taxi-Routes-229888-1.html

[Ascend Charlie]

First thing they should do is apply this software to the current air traffic control system, see if it helps with congestion.

[parabellum]

Well, as long as there are no bad guys out there who would be more than happy to create massive carnage by bringing about multiple mid-airs, either by introducing rogue drones on 'suicide' missions or interfering with the radio control, then I'm sure it will go swimmingly. Having overcome that obstacle there is the small matter of liability insurance, particularly third party. I have a pretty good idea what the insurance market will have to say about pilotless drones or aircraft.

[Ascend Charlie]

A segment on tonight's "news" showed a four-seater, with remarkable room inside, graced with the leggy models who advertise leather lounges from Franco Cozzo, getting ready to depart from a spacious rooftop heliport, along with 2 or 3 others.

It "lifted off", powered by 2 piddly little 2-metre rotors, and zoomed away. I could barely hear the commentary, I was laughing so hard. But it sure as heck didn't attempt to have any sound effects from the screaming rotors, just graceful violin music.

Yes, it did say that NASA people were involved with the ATC software, but didn't say if they had anything to do with the aircraft.

[Bend alot]

A segment on tonight's "news" showed a four-seater, with remarkable room inside, graced with the leggy models who advertise leather lounges from Franco Cozzo, getting ready to depart from a spacious rooftop heliport, along with 2 or 3 others.

It "lifted off", powered by 2 piddly little 2-metre rotors, and zoomed away. I could barely hear the commentary, I was laughing so hard. But it sure as heck didn't attempt to have any sound effects from the screaming rotors, just graceful violin music.

Yes, it did say that NASA people were involved with the ATC software, but didn't say if they had anything to do with the aircraft.



In 1906 skeptics in the European aviation community had converted the press to an anti-Wright brothers stance. European newspapers, especially those in France, were openly derisive, calling them bluffeurs (bluffers).

[Bend alot]

The Paris edition of the New York Herald (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Herald) summed up Europe's opinion of the Wright brothers in an editorial on February 10, 1906: "The Wrights have flown or they have not flown. They possess a machine or they do not possess one. They are in fact either fliers or liars. It is difficult to fly. It's easy to say, 'We have flown.'"[97] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers#cite_note-EuroDoubt-98)
In 1908, after the Wrights' first flights in France, Archdeacon publicly admitted that he had done them an injustice.[ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers#cite_note-US_Cent-99)

[StickWithTheTruth]

Yes, it did say that NASA people were involved with the ATC software, but didn't say if they had anything to do with the aircraft.

I understood it that NASA are just doing the anti-collision and routes software and not designing the aircraft in any way.

I'd been wondering for a while who was going to develop the route software for these machines. When there's literally hundreds of them buzzing through our skies it's going to need to work well! I assume NASA is more than capable however if there some smart cookies out there in Aus I'd be forming some kind of company and or start on an offering in this area. Those StarWars high ways in the sky are looking more like reality every day.

[Tankengine]

30 years ago I was told I would soon be flying out of Badgerys creek, 20 years before that Qantas cadets were told they would be Concorde captains in 6 years.
I wont hold my breath.

[Flying Binghi]

I understood it that NASA are just doing the anti-collision and routes software and not designing the aircraft in any way.

I'd been wondering for a while who was going to develop the route software for these machines. When there's literally hundreds of them buzzing through our skies it's going to need to work well! I assume NASA is more than capable however if there some smart cookies out there in Aus I'd be forming some kind of company and or start on an offering in this area. Those StarWars high ways in the sky are looking more like reality every day.

Just what them inner city residents want. A plague of screaming drones flying past their veranda's..:ooh:





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[fujii]

Posters frequently complain about the noise but there are none yet in service. Helicopters have noise from the engine, man and tail rotors. Electric vehicles won’t have any engine or tail rotor noise. They are composite construction, the engines are nor as heavy and have one moving part and there is no fuel load to lift. In this noise sensitive world, don’t you reckon the engineers have thought about this a bit?

[Icarus2001]

Fujii, there has never been a rooftop helipad in Oz, and probably never will, other than those for hospitals, and they are generally on top of the carpark.

Except all those pesky oil and gas platforms, not rooftop enough for you?

Or this...https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5519/9378321111_472472f7e2_b.jpg

[Bend alot]

Just one day I hope that some thing will reduce the noise as I fly all day.

Wait a minute what are these new noise cancelling headsets?

Do they work?


*


Now I am no expert but I think in the not too distant future we will or can have noise cancelling as standard within our house or even below a flight level - maybe even personally by a smart phone app!

My question would be do we have vertical and horizontal separation at 10 feet or 10 meters! And who tells CASA they have no control over this flight class or airspace!

[Ascend Charlie]

Icarus, a gas platform is on an oil rig out at sea, not in the middle of a city. It has a special purpose, same as a rooftop helipad for a hospital.

Where was that rooftop pad in your shot - a hospital?

[Ascend Charlie]

Fujii, does an electric fan make a noise? By your standards it should be totally silent, but turn a fan up full blast and there is electric motor noise and noise from the air being stirred like crazy by that piddly little rotor. Multiply that by 12 and see how silent it is.

there is no fuel load to lift.
But there is a battery of considerable weight. And all those electrons that get turned into noise....

[fujii]

I did not say a fan makes no noise. What I was saying is that you won’t have main and tail rotor and engine noise. Why multiply the noise by twelve? The ones in the link have two rotors.

As for landing sites, there are plenty of places around. Think of the number of sporting grounds that get no use during the week. If the demand is there, the infrastructure will become available.

Don’t look at the future through the prism of a Sydney centric, CASA biased nation. Remember, one hundred and twenty years ago freeways weren’t needed and horseless carriages were for the wealthy.

[Bend alot]

A few years ago I brought a personal power pack and jump starter.

I removed the battery completly from a 1.6L car and connected this unit and started the car with no hesitation.

It is around the size of 3 to 4 smart phones and includes several lights switches and buttons. It weighs 600 grams and charges fast and holds charge for more than 6 months.

So a few years later I guess we would have better batteries again - I also see a charging system of both solar covered surfaces of the entire craft and descending via auto type rotation to feed power back to the batteries.

[Ascend Charlie]

The world would be a static place if there were no dreamers. That is what fires up inventions. But you gotta temper your dreams with a little reality.

Landing anything on a sporting field is subject to a council, and needs to be covered by their public liability insurance. I have wasted too much time trying to get councils to approve helicopter landings. In some cases, they said yes, but changed their mind before we got to do the landing. In all other cases, it wasn't just "No" but "F**K NO!!!" Even telling them that we would have an area fenced off and have ground staff to keep lookers away.

Won't matter if Lord Vader was at the controls or if it was an Uuuber Spaceship with Big G himself as a passenger, some goose in council would still say no. Things were different in the 70s and 80s before the litigation society took hold, and we made plenty of landings on sports fields, even in the middle of a park in the Domain, and Sydney University, Cock-or-two Island, and Wentworth Park. But not any more.

Even a landing on a beach, below the high tide mark, in an area which is owned by nobody, can be banned by these stupid councils - first example that springs to mind is the Central Coast council. The Nepean council in Melbourne has declared itself a helicopter-free zone after some operators stood on the toes of some well-connected people.

And don't kid yourself that "these are not helicopters, they will be allowed to land anywhere."

I actually wish that the jetsons-style flying cars were a reality, I truly do, but 45 years in aviation has shown me otherwise. Sore head from the number of brick walls I have bumped into, and CA$A hasn't shown itself willing to knock some walls down, rather they want to build new ones.

[Bend alot]

This will not start in Australia because of CASA and an aft thinking government, but in another country possibly over the ditch or even an African nation as the test bed by a big Multi or a few combined.

Once the bugs (a few crashes) are sorted, the CASA's of the World will need to be put in their place for governance of manned craft - then their days are numbered as the power they are now. Seems every country has a bit of CASA in its system.

Uber/ Microsoft/ Amazon may join force to bribe enough governments that CASA and the like only need a small airspace sector to govern - Governments need $,s and that aint from petrol/diesel in the future nor from home mounted solar.

Air tax will be that revenue.

[parabellum]

the CASA's of the World will need to be put in their place for governance of manned craft


Dream on, the CASA's of this world are largely made of the same material and you will almost certainly be talking about a common airspace. Not to mention no one is addressing the problems of security and third party insurance and these two simply won't go away. (My post earlier, #34).

[rutan around]

and you will almost certainly be talking about a common airspace.Surely not. If that was the case we'd only need one set of aviation rules for the whole world. It would mean that CASA wasted $400,000,000 (or where ever it's at now) writing special rules for our special conditions. We're lucky they're being written by special people.:ugh:

[Flying Binghi]

Dream on, the CASA's of this world are largely made of the same material and you will almost certainly be talking about a common airspace. Not to mention no one is addressing the problems of security and third party insurance and these two simply won't go away. (My post earlier, #34).

"Security"

Example: So yer don't like poster XYZ123. Go to the computer hacker web site 'makeitcrash.com.ng' and pay $500 in bitcoin and next time poster XYZ123 goes for a trip in a pilotless drone it will suffer compleat control and propulsion systems shutdown at 2000' over Melbourne city..:E

There are some amazing human carrying drones being developed and flown right now though "the problems of security" is what will stop them being used as anything more then test rigs over Australian city's and towns until the flight computers become hacker proof.





.

[Bend alot]

"Security"

Example: So yer don't like poster XYZ123. Go to the computer hacker web site 'makeitcrash.com.ng' and pay $500 in bitcoin and next time poster XYZ123 goes for a trip in a pilotless drone it will suffer compleat control and propulsion systems shutdown at 2000' over Melbourne city..:E

There are some amazing human carrying drones being developed and flown right now though "the problems of security" is what will stop them being used as anything more then test rigs over Australian city's and towns until the flight computers become hacker proof.





.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkCQ_-Id8zI


Or a quote in this one "anybody want to crash a few airliners"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlKDkTbUFhU

I don't think security is a real issue that can not easily be dealt with, similar or more damage can/could be done hacking into cars and trucks computers.


2 or more independent flying and navigating systems could be used and any conflicting data lead to a safe mode landing.

Also a drone will be of a fairly light mass and not carry lots of combustible fuel, so its targets would need to be very strategic and defenceless. Yes we could load it up with explosives and send it off empty to a target to detonate on arrival - but we can fit a sensor to detect that and instantly report it and disable flight.

[parabellum]

I don't think security is a real issue that can not easily be dealt with, similar or more damage can/could be done hacking into cars and trucks computers.


Good Bend a lot, it would appear you have solved all the Middle Eastern problems then? Not to mention the terrorist's avowed aim to wipe all non believers off the face of the earth if they don't convert to Islam.


Relative has been involved in the testing of drones of all sizes for military purposes, without any terrorist input the crash rate is high, sometimes due loss of control brought about by nothing more than a disturbance of radio signals in the atmosphere.

[Bend alot]

Good Bend a lot, it would appear you have solved all the Middle Eastern problems then? Not to mention the terrorist's avowed aim to wipe all non believers off the face of the earth if they don't convert to Islam.


Relative has been involved in the testing of drones of all sizes for military purposes, without any terrorist input the crash rate is high, sometimes due loss of control brought about by nothing more than a disturbance of radio signals in the atmosphere.

Not sure what airports you use, the ones I use seem to have a high % of security guards that have a Middle Eastern appearance.

Why use "radio" waves?

I think forever it has been private sector that makes things work - military are institutional and the fellow 4 promotions bellow probably knows why they crash but his boss above made the call on something that they wont change just to keep face.

[Flying Binghi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkCQ_-Id8zI


Or a quote in this one "anybody want to crash a few airliners"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlKDkTbUFhU

I don't think security is a real issue that can not easily be dealt with, similar or more damage can/could be done hacking into cars and trucks computers.


2 or more independent flying and navigating systems could be used and any conflicting data lead to a safe mode landing.

Also a drone will be of a fairly light mass and not carry lots of combustible fuel, so its targets would need to be very strategic and defenceless. Yes we could load it up with explosives and send it off empty to a target to detonate on arrival - but we can fit a sensor to detect that and instantly report it and disable flight.

As I've posted before, i love the idea of these flying drones though I'll let others 'prove' them first. If a drone vehicles operating computer gets hacked I'd rather be in one that has four wheels and on the ground then one that is several thousand feet in the air..:ooh:





.

[parabellum]

Not sure what airports you use, the ones I use seem to have a high % of security guards that have a Middle Eastern appearance.Don't see the relevance of your statement, a heavily armed suicide attack on an enroute control centre would be all that is required to create carnage.

Why use "radio" waves? "random interruption of the communications medium in use" - there, does that sound better?

[rutan around]

Nemo Me Impune Lacessit Parabellum I'm sorry to be the one to rain on your parade but I'm afraid 'Binghi' does just that. He is completely immune to your attacks on his cloak of ignorance.

No matter what well researched and reasoned argument you put before him Binghi will reply with a baseless fact free load of discredited nonsense or he will completely change the subject and thus avoid answering you at all.

You're wasting your time with him but it may make you feel better when you reflect on the fact that even today there a few people out there that don't believe man has walked on the moon and there are the odd few that believe the earth is flat. It took thousands of years before almost the whole population accepted that the earth is a sphere.

[Bend alot]

I see several ways that can be used to stop these from being hacked.


One is to have no external control of flight to destination, but have a emergency stop that can be activated by proximity sensors or sensitive areas and or police. But this is just a auto land. The navigation system will be by 2 means and they must match exactly for the flight to commence. This will have pre programed flights on its hard drive, the passenger then buys the destination flight ticket some form of app to your phone or a USB stick. This will have your GPS track and alt info. So lets say it is a USB - this destination you brought gets matched to the flight on the hard drive of the drone. The flight will then take place on that exact route with no external flight changes unless the emergency is activated - but this will just pause the flight and land.


The second would be the opposite and be more like how Bitcoin works - many computers used to verify the safe flight of all drones all the time, so many that they can not all be hacked fast enough. This would give more freedom of flight paths but be more complicated.


I don't expect there will be private people transport drones - but you may own your own capsule that the drone attaches to.

A smart government would jump on this - renewable energy on the rise!

* Sell the flights to the public as monthly subscriptions (Netflix, Microsoft, NBN - fast or slow).
* Sell capsules to the public. (A new model each year - iPhone).
* Collect data from the public.
* Reduced cost of road maintenance and upgrades.
* Less staff to employ on current public transport.

[troppo]

https://m.ebay.com/itm/AT-Flying-Truck-Black-Knight-Transformer/172980331656?hash=item28466e6488:g:o7cAAOSwbtNaCxX6

[Flying Binghi]

Parabellum I'm sorry to be the one to rain on your parade but I'm afraid 'Binghi' does just that. He is completely immune to your attacks on his cloak of ignorance.

No matter what well researched and reasoned argument you put before him Binghi will reply with a baseless fact free load of discredited nonsense or he will completely change the subject and thus avoid answering you at all.

You're wasting your time with him but it may make you feel better when you reflect on the fact that even today there a few people out there that don't believe man has walked on the moon and there are the odd few that believe the earth is flat. It took thousands of years before almost the whole population accepted that the earth is a sphere.

:confused:

I bet yer one of those who avoids landing charges by using the wrong call sign..;)





.

[rutan around]

I bet yer one of those who avoids landing charges by using the wrong call sign..;)Actually Binghi that's one of the few aviation sins I can put my hand on my heart and say 'Not guilty your Honour'

I have caught myself giving the call sign of the aircraft I fly most frequently when I'm flying the one I fly infrequently. Unfortunately that would work against me as the frequent flyer's landing fees are somewhat higher.:{:{

[Flying Binghi]

I see several ways that can be used to stop these from being hacked.


One is to have no external control of flight to destination, but have a emergency stop that can be activated by proximity sensors or sensitive areas and or police. But this is just a auto land. The navigation system will be by 2 means and they must match exactly for the flight to commence. This will have pre programed flights on its hard drive, the passenger then buys the destination flight ticket some form of app to your phone or a USB stick. This will have your GPS track and alt info. So lets say it is a USB - this destination you brought gets matched to the flight on the hard drive of the drone. The flight will then take place on that exact route with no external flight changes unless the emergency is activated - but this will just pause the flight and land.


The second would be the opposite and be more like how Bitcoin works - many computers used to verify the safe flight of all drones all the time, so many that they can not all be hacked fast enough. This would give more freedom of flight paths but be more complicated.


I don't expect there will be private people transport drones - but you may own your own capsule that the drone attaches to.

A smart government would jump on this - renewable energy on the rise!

* Sell the flights to the public as monthly subscriptions (Netflix, Microsoft, NBN - fast or slow).
* Sell capsules to the public. (A new model each year - iPhone).
* Collect data from the public.
* Reduced cost of road maintenance and upgrades.
* Less staff to employ on current public transport.

Considering all the other flying drones that will be operating over a city, from mini surveillance drones up to heavy lift maintenance drones, I'd say there would definatly be a need for a drone to drone to central command communication link.





.

[StickWithTheTruth]

GPS based geo-fenced highways in the sky.

There's no other way.

There must be some resemblance of order. Watch a star-wars movie or similar sci-fi such as Back to the Future 2 to see the concept in action.

You can't just go from point A to point B, it's just not going to work well..... how a road works on the ground it will work in the air. You'll still have intersections and you'll be computer controlled, but moreso for proximity.


PS. Which is morally worse - using a fake rego to avoid landing fees, or not making radio calls at all to avoid them?