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Terry McCassey
2nd Oct 2017, 08:43
Any idea where they found the VC10 for the opening scene of last night's drama - The Last Post ? Strange that it was wearing an inflight refuelling probe and a sad hue of the beautiful BOAC dark blue. Not to mention the photoshopped Lightnings in the background . . . .

chevvron
2nd Oct 2017, 11:32
From what you describe, I'm guessing Bruntingthorpe.

JW411
2nd Oct 2017, 12:05
I don't think I ever saw a Lightning at Khormaksar?

Terry McCassey
2nd Oct 2017, 14:14
Good point, neither do I. I believe they sent 2 from the UK for trials, one with a UHF set and one with a VHF set so they couldn't even talk to each other. Bags packed and off home.

teeteringhead
2nd Oct 2017, 15:07
But there was a clip of a Wessex flying away in ther distance (archive?) and some (definitely contemporary) footage of a Belvedere.

I gather it was all filmed in South Africa, near Capetown (not the VC10 obvs) - terrain looked about right - although my reference is Oman, which I guess was not too different from Aden......

Noah Zark.
2nd Oct 2017, 15:41
it was a South African registered helo briefly in one of the shots, taken from underneath (a Huey, I think) ZU-ELP.

Herod
2nd Oct 2017, 15:43
They seem to have done their research on the scenery. It's certainly not Shamsan (the volcanic remnant that surrounds Crater), but I don't think anyone would want to be shooting on location out there. Even without the present war, actors driving down M'allah in redcap uniform would be trouble.

Noah Zark. I think you're confusing it with the trailer for another programme.

WHBM
2nd Oct 2017, 17:03
Here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq4NkrHD_GE

Looks like they've superimposed the Duxford VC-10 in BOAC livery with everyone getting off it (and they have all the BOAC ground equipment) on the background.

The aircraft steps have the BOAC logo from an earlier era's font than the aircraft livery :) . I know this sort of comment dismays the producers, who want all attention on the actors...

Jhieminga
2nd Oct 2017, 18:28
I cannot be 100% certain but the consensus seems to point towards WHBM's answer: it is G-ASGC at Duxford with the background and a refuelling probe added in post-production. They did some filming at Duxford in July, that could have been for this series.

Bergerie1
2nd Oct 2017, 18:59
Please don't do that G-ASGC - she is special.

WHBM
2nd Oct 2017, 19:59
I came up the M11 motorway past Duxford two days ago, the only museum aircraft out on the ramp, which you get a fleeting glimpse of northbound, was the Monarch Britannia. A bit prophetic :( . But the rest of the aircraft must be inside, or pushed off to the left; the BOAC VC10 has been visible outside there for 20 years or more. I always look out for what is there on the odd occasions when I drive past.

Jhieminga
2nd Oct 2017, 20:15
The VC10 and the other airliners are further left on the platform (when seen from the motorway heading North). They moved several years ago, I think around the time that the superhangar was extended.

teeteringhead
2nd Oct 2017, 20:26
Noah Zark. I think you're confusing it with the trailer for another programme. Indeed so - I too was confused (actually in Gogglebox shouting at the screen mode!) when I saw the Huey from below, and yet another heli-in-the-background shot for another prog set in Afghan.

Must have bought up a load of surplus MTP combats ......

DaveReidUK
2nd Oct 2017, 20:44
Indeed so - I too was confused (actually in Gogglebox shouting at the screen mode!) when I saw the Huey from below, and yet another heli-in-the-background shot for another prog set in Afghan.

This one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaOYN0Svd_U

The Huey is a 50-year-old ex-US Army UH-1H (originally a UH-1D).

For historical accuracy, it's about on a par with that BOAC VC-10 with the refuelling probe. :O

parabellum
3rd Oct 2017, 01:58
Did BOAC ever land VC10s in Aden, I don't recall seeing them, only the BUA VC10, for trooping flights?

WHBM
3rd Oct 2017, 05:04
Did BOAC ever land VC10s in Aden, I don't recall seeing them, only the BUA VC10, for trooping flights?
Sure. There was a short period between the end of Comets and the withdrawl of services there. It was the sort of lesser operation the Standard VC10 was designed for.

Here's a 1966 timetable showing a service terminating there, operating via Tripoli and Khartoum.

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/ba2/ba66/ba66-15.jpg


Now for whether a Super VC10 made it there, as in the film sequence, that's a different matter.

KelvinD
3rd Oct 2017, 06:56
I seem to remember BOAC had alternating VC10 and 707 flights. In the latter half of 1967, everyone was getting excited about the prospect of a VC10, most of us having arrived there in the first place on Britannias. In my case, that was a British Eagle Brit, G-ANCF (Ironically, post British Eagle, this aircraft went to Monarch!) When my turn to go home in October 1967 came, 6 of us were allocated seats on .... Yep! A Britannia! This time it was the ill fated XL638, fitted out primarily as a cas evac plane with arrangements for lots of stretchers and a wide door which allowed the ambulances to reverse up a ramp to the aircraft. (Hence the only 6 "regular" passengers). And, while the lucky sods going home on one of these new-fangled jets were there within a few hours, we had to endure 20 hours from Aden to Lyneham!

spekesoftly
3rd Oct 2017, 09:14
But there was a clip of a Wessex flying away in ther distance (archive?) and some (definitely contemporary) footage of a Belvedere.......

And another clip of a Vulcan flying overhead with serial number XH558.

Wander00
3rd Oct 2017, 10:43
No Routemasters though.........

ian16th
3rd Oct 2017, 12:55
And, while the lucky sods going home on one of these new-fangled jets were there within a few hours, we had to endure 20 hours from Aden to Lyneham!

I didn't count the hours.

I did by Hasting, and counted the days! :(

Noah Zark.
3rd Oct 2017, 20:34
Herod,
I have come to realise the error of my post, and duly stand corrected. I realised that when I saw the trailer again last night.
Thank you.
N.Z.

Herod
3rd Oct 2017, 21:54
No problem, Noah. These fleeting images of similar scenes are easily confused.

Warmtoast
3rd Oct 2017, 23:17
KelvinD
we had to endure 20 hours from Aden to Lyneham!

When I was on 99 Sqn Britannias we did Khormaksar - El Adem in around 6hrs 30mins and El Adem - Lyneham in around 5hrs 30mins, so not sure which route you flew if it took 20hrs.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Lyneham/BritanniaRAF253CMk1Cabin-MedEvacLay.jpg
Britannia in CASEVAC role

crewmeal
4th Oct 2017, 05:51
I guess when they filmed 'The Crown' How did the BOAC Argonaut and the Viscount fly? It's all computer generated.

crewmeal
4th Oct 2017, 05:52
KelvinD


When I was on 99 Sqn Britannias we did Khormaksar - El Adem in around 6hrs 30mins and El Adem - Lyneham in around 5hrs 30mins, so not sure which route you flew if it took 20hrs.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Lyneham/BritanniaRAF253CMk1Cabin-MedEvacLay.jpg
Britannia in CASEVAC role

Looks more comfortable than some of today's aircraft.

KelvinD
4th Oct 2017, 07:00
Warmtoast: Now that would have been a nice route! When I travelled (October 1967), we had upset the Arab states, with allegations the RAF had bombed Cairo during the 6 day war a couple of months earlier. This resulted in the RAF being banned from overflying Arab states so our track went:
Aden sort of easterly toward Oman, left turn up the Gulf to Bahrain
When we arrived in Bahrain, I remember thinking "how are they going to deal with this now we have Arab countries all around us?" We left Bahrain and crossed the Gulf, headed toward Iran in a generally northerly direction.
From Iran, we avoided Turkey and flew over Armenia and Georgia. Bearing in mind this was the height of the Cold War, that surprised me. The Captain very helpfully sent a chart for us to see. The chart was covered in a heavy polythene and the route was marked with a good old chinagraph and he had highlighted the 2 Soviet territories.
We skirted Turkey until we hit the Black Sea and swung around in a big curve, flying over (I think) Bulgaria and Greece and headed for Cyprus.
From Cyprus, we flew to Malta and finally to Lyneham.
The in flight catering consisted of thin cheese sandwiches and lemon squash on every sector. Departing Aden, the crew apologised for the catering and said we would get a hot meal in Bahrain. We got coffee" Departing Bahrain, more cheese sandwiches and another apology with a promise of a hot meal at Akrotiri. At Akrotiri, we got coffee and Keo brandy which we bought ourselves.
Departing Akrotiri, guess what; more apologies and a promise of a hot meal at Luqa. We picked up a few forces families in Malta (a couple of wives and kids) and set off for Lyneham.
As we were about to cross the Channel, the crew came round with a hot English breakfast along with customs and immigration forms. Lovely breakfast but a bugger to eat while filling in the forms and watching the UK coast getting ever closer!
The flight made it into the news the day after we arrived. When the aircraft parked, the ground people placed a big wooden ramp alongside the aircraft and an ambulance began backing up toward the ramp. Along came HM Customs and shooed the ambulance away. According to some of the casualties the Customs people boarded and went through the CASEVAC section like a dose of salts. One told me later that they used thin dowels to poke into bandages and casts to check if anything was hidden there! We walking passengers were given a real 3rd degree in the terminal and everybody paid customs duty on every bloody item. My return was 4 days short of a year since departure and I had bought a new watch while away and despite it being very close to a year (that was the threshold for duty payable), I was hit with the full import duty. Someone (whether passenger or crew, I don't know) told the newspapers. I heard later that HM Customs didn't attend inbound CASEVAC flights over the following days.
So, quite a trip! One abiding memory I have was during the flight over Iran, I noticed a large ring bolt in the bulkhead/deckhead and during this part of the journey I watched the amount of frost and ice that grew on this bolt. I presumed this bolt must have been through the fuselage and it was extremely cold outside!
Thanks for the photo. In all those 20 hours, I never did get to see that part of the aircraft.
Aah! Looking closely at your photo, I can see the ring bolts, holding the vertical supports for the stretchers. We were curtained off in the front. The first time I ever sat in seat 1A!

Brian 48nav
4th Oct 2017, 08:41
There was a particularly nasty customs man at Lyneham at that time, can't remember his name, who was even worse after his beloved Swindon Town had lost - so most of the time!

Herod
4th Oct 2017, 10:47
Yep, remember him well, but not his name. There was one case where a crewmember has a demijohn of wine from Cyprus, and was going to be charged some ridiculous amount. He proceeded to pour it onto the floor, at which point said personage stated that since the floor was UK territory, duty was still payable.

Tankertrashnav
4th Oct 2017, 10:59
Lots of chat about this on the RAF Khormaksar thread on Military Aircrew. The first VC10 I ever saw was a BUA one at Khormaksar in 1966, when they had the trooping contract and I was so impressed. Like KelvinD I flew out and back on Britannias, but RAF, not British Eagle. I did fly out to Singapore on a British Eagle Brit the following year. Heathrow - Kuwait- Colombo - Paya Lebar - 24 hours which was long enough for me, so I sympathise with Ian16th who had to endure the Hastings!

MReyn24050
4th Oct 2017, 11:34
Lots of chat about this on the RAF Khormaksar thread on Military Aircrew. The first VC10 I ever saw was a BUA one at Khormaksar in 1966, when they had the trooping contract and I was so impressed. Like KelvinD I flew out and back on Britannias, but RAF, not British Eagle. I did fly out to Singapore on a British Eagle Brit the following year. Heathrow - Kuwait- Colombo - Paya Lebar - 24 hours which was long enough for me, so I sympathise with Ian16th who had to endure the Hastings!

Apparantly BOAC did use the VC10 on the Aden run in 1967 as this photograph shows. Perhaps this where the Last Post Director's Military adviser got the idea to use a BOAC VC10 in the programme.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/VC10%20ADEN_zps3lkc7l7y.jpg
See the following link.
Vickers VC10 Srs1101 - BOAC | Aviation Photo #1244563 | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/BOAC/Vickers-VC10-Srs1101/1244563/L?qsp=eJwtjDEKwkAQRa8SprZIECzSRQ%2BghdgPOx8NxuwyOxCXkLs7Wewe 73/eSiHOhq/dSwL1lMEaXnSgxMqfTP1Kb5QlqjjT49K1TTMIZn/kqHYuboUNQwhIBvn7qwp0n5BDjT093jlAb5XpeHIvY04T1waMx4m27Qe/si9N)

MReyn24050
4th Oct 2017, 12:50
Another BOAC VC10 at Aden with Hunters in the background.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/VC10%20Aden_zps2pvu0g86.jpg

Groundloop
4th Oct 2017, 13:17
But that second image was taken before the VC-10 actually entered service with BOAC. As the caption says it was on certification testing at the time.

MReyn24050
4th Oct 2017, 13:39
But that second image was taken before the VC-10 actually entered service with BOAC. As the caption says it was on certification testing at the time.
I am aware of that, the image was posted for interest and to highlight that Hunters were stationed at Khormaksar.

ICM
4th Oct 2017, 14:08
KelvinD: That route over Iran and Turkey to/from Cyprus was known to those of us in the trade as the CENTO route. And it was in regular use from at least February 1967, before the 6-Day War - with a falling out with Egypt over issues in South Yemen the more probable cause for its adoption.

Democritus
4th Oct 2017, 15:13
But there was a clip of a Wessex flying away in ther distance (archive?) and some (definitely contemporary) footage of a Belvedere.

Re the archive clip of a Wessex - look at 10.52 in on the BBC iPlayer. The Wessex has a yellow top to the fuselage. This indicates a Fleet Air Arm anti-submarine role Wessex HAS Mk1 and could well be my old Squadron - 815 - which was detached from HMS Centaur to Aden in January and again in May 1964. Just before my time with the Squadron as I joined them the following year.

All the sonar anti-submarine gear was stripped out from the Wessex and they operated in the troop transport role flying from Thurmier Airstrip in the Radfan Mountains. The Wessex shown in the accompanying photo whilst operating in the Radfan - XM873 - crashed at Wadi Misrah in June 1964 during a landing at 5000ft elevation in the mountains, rolled over 5 times and fell 150ft into a gully, sadly with the death of one of the troops.

Note the harp on the side of the helicopter - at that time we were 'sponsored' by Guinness!

KelvinD
4th Oct 2017, 15:15
ICM: Thanks for that. It was the Captain who told us it was due to the 6 day war that we were persona non-grata. If it had been Egypt only, we could have made it over Saudi Arabia, Jordan etc. It was interesting to see that route was already in use. I am still amazed we had the USSR being so friendly, while we had to make a huge circle to avoid Turkey, supposedly our CENTO mates.

Bergerie1
4th Oct 2017, 15:29
BOAC Standard VC10 G-ARVL a shuttle from Khartoum - Aden - Khartoum on 28 April 1967.

The whole trip had been London - Tripoli - Khartoum on the night of 24/25 April. Then the shuttle to Aden and back on the 28th, followed by the return flight to London via Tripoli on 2 May.

ICM
4th Oct 2017, 18:42
KelvinD: This is getting rather off the VC 10 topic but my apologies for not reading your original post thoroughly. If you were in a RAF Britannia, then I have difficulty in believing that you flew over Armenia and Georgia, and I suspect that a very thick chinagraph had been used on that Pax Map. Flying from Bahrain or Sharjah, the CENTO route that I mentioned passed over Iran, up into eastern Turkey, and due west over the mountains until it was time to turn southwards for Cyprus. Overflight of Bulgaria would have been out of the question and there was no need for overflight of Greece. The same routing was used in reverse.

The 6-Day War did not help things in the area as rumours started and spread that RAF aircraft had flown from Cyprus in support of Israel. I was with an Argosy crew positioned at Masirah as standby support for a Lightning Trail to the Far East (Op Hydraulic) over those days, and I've often wondered whether the mix of Victor tankers and Lightnings operating through Akrotiri at the time might have helped spark those rumours.

WHBM
4th Oct 2017, 19:48
I guess when they filmed 'The Crown' How did the BOAC ... the Viscount fly? It's all computer generated.
If they had a BOAC Viscount, that was correct. BOAC never ran Viscounts, but their overseas-ownership arm, BOAC Associated Services, did, and leased Viscount 700s to Aden Airways, among a number of others, in BOAC livery with small Aden titles.

before the VC-10 actually entered service with BOAC
First VC10 deliveries, April 1964 to BOAC, September 1964 to British United. The BOAC ones replaced Comet 4s on these routes. The BUA ones did initially do military charters (always a mainstream use for BUA Britannias) before replacing Britannias on East Africa schedules, and later supplanting BOAC on South America.

I am still amazed we had the USSR being so friendlyAlas the media image. Russians in private life are actually some of the most pleasant, honourable and hospitable people you may find :) . And they have always despised their leaders (Czars, Socialists, New Russians, in equal quantities).

There was a particularly nasty customs man at Lyneham at that timeSo I will tell this one. The very first time I ever arrived in Russia, at St Petersburg, I anticipated a KGB-style reception. But in the customs hall it was the opposite. Elegant Russian 40-something woman has her suitcase opened on the inspection counter. Russian customs officer, young-20-something, young enough to be her son, full old-socialist style uniform with oversized hat, on the other side. Woman is giving the officer what for in full volume. Officer is slightly cowering backwards, not knowing what to do, under the torrent of invective (I presume). Not the image at all ! I think she won.

we avoided Turkey and flew over Armenia and GeorgiaJust a short while ago, Singapore to LHR nonstop on a 777, we took this exact same route, direct overhead Baku.

Did you look down on The Caspian coast to see the Ekranoplan - alias Caspian Sea Monster ? :) The prototype must have been trialling about then.

DaveReidUK
4th Oct 2017, 20:10
If they had a BOAC Viscount, that was correct. BOAC never ran Viscounts, but their overseas-ownership arm, BOAC Associated Services, did, and leased Viscount 700s to Aden Airways, among a number of others, in BOAC livery with small Aden titles.

Not forgetting the two rather handsome Cambrian Viscounts that flew in BOAC's livery between Edinburgh/Belfast and Prestwick in the early 70s to feed their transatlantic services:

http://www.airport-data.com/images/aircraft/small/000/566/566466.jpg

WHBM
4th Oct 2017, 20:17
Not forgetting the two rather handsome Cambrian Viscounts that flew in BOAC's livery
Ah, at Prestwick. I believe that Shanwick control was long in that half-timbered old house behind. And how can I ever forget those ex-BEA Cambrian Viscount 700s - my first ever flight, which got me started in all this, was on one. But t'was nothing to do with Aden.

chevvron
4th Oct 2017, 21:47
Ah, at Prestwick. I believe that Shanwick control was long in that half-timbered old house behind. And how can I ever forget those ex-BEA Cambrian Viscount 700s - my first ever flight, which got me started in all this, was on one. But t'was nothing to do with Aden.

Redbrae House contained the Scottish Control Centre as well as Shanwick Oceanic.

Warmtoast
4th Oct 2017, 22:51
Brian 48nav and Herod
Posts#27 and #28
There was a particularly nasty customs man at Lyneham at that time, can't remember his name, who was even worse after his beloved Swindon Town had lost - so most of the time!Mr Pearson was his name, leading member of the Swindon Town Supporters Club. When arriving back from Far East with 'goodies' dreaded arriving on a Sunday or Monday if Swindon Town had lost on the previous Saturday as he was then particularly punctilious.

Warmtoast
4th Oct 2017, 23:03
KelvinD
Your post #26
Thanks for the photo. In all those 20 hours, I never did get to see that part of the aircraft.
Here's two other interior views to stir your memories.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Lyneham/BritanniaRAF253CMk1Cabin2Medium.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Lyneham/BritanniaRAF253CMk1Cabin3Medium.jpg




WT - 99 Sqn Britannia's 1959 -1963

parabellum
5th Oct 2017, 05:20
Very lucky, brief window of BUA VC10 October 1964 before BUA started the South American route and took the VC10s away and put the Brits. back on the Aden route!

WHBM
5th Oct 2017, 06:41
Very lucky, brief window of BUA VC10 October 1964 before BUA started the South American route and took the VC10s away and put the Brits. back on the Aden route!
I think BUA then lost the military contract, it going to British Eagle for a few years (as can be seen in one of the photos above). The BUA Britannias were then disposed.

Herod
5th Oct 2017, 08:28
Warmtoast. Yep, that was the name.

Another story, which is as related to me. (I can't verify its accuracy) A Wessex crew did a favour for a local bigwig out in Sharjah, and were each given a Rolex Oysterdate for their pains. All three eventually went to UK on leave. The captain, somehow went via Prestwick and, being a Scot, wasn't charged any duty (Scot free?). The second pilot went through Gatwick, where Customs "valued" the watch at a very nominal rate. The poor crewman went through Lyneham. The watch was impounded, pending valuation. Later, back in Sharjah, he got a letter from Customs stating a high valuation, and inviting him to cough up the money in return for the watch. I'm not sure whether he did.

KelvinD
5th Oct 2017, 08:59
Bloody horrible people! A colleague escorted his wife and infant child back to the UK, following the death of his older child in Aden. He watched the customs at London (don't remember which airport he used) and when very close to his turn at the head of the queue, he pinched the poor little sod, causing it to howl a lot. He spent a minimal amount of time with the Customs as they didn't want the noise!
ICM: Trust me, we flew over Armenia and Georgia. This came from the crew member who brought out the chart. The chinagraph line was not thick and went nowhere Turkey.
Warmtoast: Thanks for the additional photos. As my flight from London was on a Britannia, and was my first flight on a powered aircraft, I became rather fond of that aircraft. Having said that, I once flew on an Argosy from Aden to Botswana and it still brings back memories when I see examples such as the one at Cosford.
As for the VC10, my first flight on one of these was not until I joined BA/IAL in 1977 and travelled to Jeddah on one. Using staff travel in addition to my regular home leave, I flew many trips on VC10s LHR to JFK, Tokyo to Hong Kong, Colombo and Seychelles, Mombasa (diverted from Nairobi), Kahrtoum etc.
Wile enduring some training at Rockwell Collins in Dallas in 1978, I was surprised to find that many of their international staff would often turn up at JFK on the outward leg of a foreign trip and look for people with tickets on a VC10 and swap them for the 707 tickets. They loved it!

Jhieminga
5th Oct 2017, 11:00
Another BOAC VC10 at Aden with Hunters in the background.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/VC10%20Aden_zps2pvu0g86.jpg
May I ask where this image was found? It has clearly been copied from my website but the text below is not part of my site. The full sequence of images is here: C/n 804 - G-ARVA - 5N-ABD (http://www.vc10.net/Airframes/cn_804__garva.html)

NutLoose
5th Oct 2017, 11:08
You're missing a few clues, Is it the Duxford one?, however it has a freight door as you can see by the window configuration and an inflight probe fitted, also one clue you all have missed is you can see on the image where they have covered up the RAF front of the wing pax door and presumabley added the rear pax door on the port side as shown in the film.
Ex VC10 :)

MReyn24050
5th Oct 2017, 11:24
May I ask where this image was found? It has clearly been copied from my website but the text below is not part of my site. The full sequence of images is here: C/n 804 - G-ARVA - 5N-ABD (http://www.vc10.net/Airframes/cn_804__garva.html)

Please refer to a PM sent to you.

The information under the photograph was added by myself from information on the web.

Jhieminga
5th Oct 2017, 13:09
Please refer to a PM sent to you.
Sorted via PM. Apologies for the interruption!

Jhieminga
5th Oct 2017, 13:12
You're missing a few clues, Is it the Duxford one?, however it has a freight door as you can see by the window configuration and an inflight probe fitted, also one clue you all have missed is you can see on the image where they have covered up the RAF front of the wing pax door and presumabley added the rear pax door on the port side as shown in the film.
Ex VC10 :)

See post #9.

There can't have been a second pax door in front of the wing as the only VC10s available for filming are three Super VC10s, all with second doors behind the wing. Unless they used XR808 at Cosford which is very unlikely as that meant that they would also have to lengthen the fuselage using the computer.

G-ASGC is the most likely answer as that is the only one that has the nose gear doors drooping open, something clearly visible in the screen shots from the series.

chevvron
5th Oct 2017, 13:15
What happened to the ex BUA VC10 which, due to an incident, (a Bedford controller told me they found the fuselage was 'bent') was grounded and parked at Bedford for many years?

Jhieminga
5th Oct 2017, 13:39
You're mixing up two VC10s. The one that was bent was G-ARTA, but this happened at Gatwick. See here for photos: C/n 803 - G-ARTA (http://www.vc10.net/History/Individual/GARTA.html) (there is also a link there to a page on British-Caledonian.com with a very complete account of that final flight).

The one at Bedford was not bent in any way, but this was also an ex-BUA one: C/n 825 - G-ATDJ - XX914 (http://www.vc10.net/Airframes/cn_825__gatdj_xx914.html)

ICM
5th Oct 2017, 15:41
KelvinD: I continue to be surprised at the thought of that routing you describe, and can only add that as many times as I flew the CENTO route in various aircraft, a prime concern was to ensure that we'd avoid any Soviet territory. The reason for that comes out quite well in the "Radar coverage in Turkey in 1966" thread that sits a few lines under this one, and I'll leave it at that.

Terry McCassey
5th Oct 2017, 20:37
NutLoose - Maybe my ageing eyesight I'm not sure but the tyres on the left gear don't seem to sit too well on the concrete underneath. Also, Lightnings on the dirt, Union Jacks on the lower rudder, oh and the Firestreaks under the leading edge. Oh sorry, that's another post . . .

Jhieminga
5th Oct 2017, 21:04
To keep things interesting, I just heard from someone in the know at Duxford that it wasn't 'GC in The Last Post. This airframe was used for filming again today but this appears to be a repeat of the July session and may be for a British Airways commercial (photos here: https://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?141202-Duxford-Diary-(2017)&p=2413092#post2413092)

On a somewhat related note, for those of you who have been waiting for Scott Henderson's new VC10 book: it is now available! I won't post the link here as that may be seen as advertising but it is on my site on the News page.

DaveReidUK
5th Oct 2017, 22:59
You're missing a few clues, Is it the Duxford one?, however it has a freight door as you can see by the window configuration and an inflight probe fitted, also one clue you all have missed is you can see on the image where they have covered up the RAF front of the wing pax door and presumably added the rear pax door on the port side as shown in the film.

A simpler explanation would be that it's a K.3, which would therefore have both the freight door and rear pax door.

Which would make it either ZA147 at Bruntingthorpe or ZA148 at Newquay.

chevvron
6th Oct 2017, 01:15
A simpler explanation would be that it's a K.3, which would therefore have both the freight door and rear pax door.

Which would make it either ZA147 at Bruntingthorpe or ZA148 at Newquay.

I said at #2 it sounded like Bruntingthorpe!

Bergerie1
6th Oct 2017, 06:21
ICM,

I tend to agree with you about the route over Turkey, I have been reading up a lot about this area and feel it most unlikely a western aircraft would have routed over Soviet territory.

Jhieminga,

Good to see GC being looked after, she is special!!

Jhieminga
6th Oct 2017, 06:43
Which would make it either ZA147 at Bruntingthorpe or ZA148 at Newquay.
.... or ZA150 at Dunsfold, or it could be K4 ZD241 at Bruntingthorpe but then the cargo door is a red herring.

DaveReidUK
6th Oct 2017, 07:19
I said at #2 it sounded like Bruntingthorpe!

True, you did. :O

But you said your guess was based on post #1, which merely said

Strange that it was wearing an inflight refuelling probe and a sad hue of the beautiful BOAC dark blue.

So either of those K.3s could equally be a candidate (with a bit of help from Photoshop, obviously).

Yes, I forgot about that third possibility - ZA150 at Dunsfold.

Brian 48nav
6th Oct 2017, 08:46
I recall as a Herc' nav passing the little route map for the pax to the loadie to take to the back.

There used to be a load of jokers in those days and my guess is that the nav in question drew the route across Soviet territory as a wind-up, perhaps fully expecting some 'senior' passenger to dash forward demanding, ' WTF is going on?'

We were fully aware that if we strayed off-route into Russian territory we would almost certainly be shot down.

Jhieminga
6th Oct 2017, 10:02
While it sounds simpler, a K3 is actually not that well suited for this job. The front door on the left side is permanently closed as these doors were converted into escape chutes, and the rear door was bolted shut as well during the Tanker conversion. I know that the team on ZA150 have opened up one of the rear doors but I cannot remember if that means that it can be opened normally. The hinges may have been removed during the conversion, going by my photos.

chevvron
6th Oct 2017, 10:51
True, you did. :O

But you said your guess was based on post #1, which merely said



So either of those K.3s could equally be a candidate (with a bit of help from Photoshop, obviously).


It was the mention of Lightnings in the background as well as the refuelling probe which suggested Brunty to me.

RedhillPhil
6th Oct 2017, 11:52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks-ymRuo_Z8&t=67s

DaveReidUK
6th Oct 2017, 12:30
It was the mention of Lightnings in the background as well as the refuelling probe which suggested Brunty to me.

Ah, right.

Sadly the Lightnings (five of them in the background, with distinctly odd tail markings) were also thanks to Photoshop, as the OP mentioned.

Getting that number of English Electric's finest in one place for real would be a pretty challenging project nowadays.

WHBM
6th Oct 2017, 14:11
Sadly the Lightnings (five of them in the background, with distinctly odd tail markings) were also thanks to Photoshop, as the OP mentioned.

Getting that number of English Electric's finest in one place for real would be a pretty challenging project nowadays.
In the film "The Aviator", 2004, about Howard Hughes, there is a scene where Leonardo di Caprio, as Hughes, is standing in front of a whole line of five or more Lockheed Connies, in full TWA livery.

Self, plus another adjacent chap, likewise not of younger years, both suddenly sat upright in our cinema seats in London trying to pick out just how it had been done and which Connie model they had based it on.

Wasn't one of you lot, was it ? :) Film CGI technology has doubtless moved even further on in the intervening 13 years.

Seloco
6th Oct 2017, 18:01
Having finally grabbed a decent HD screenshot from the first episode of the Last Post I am led to suspect that most of the "VC10" is a CGI model rather than 2D photoshopping over an existing airframe. To me neither the nacelles nor the tailplane bullet look quite right, and the system air intake on the leading edge near the wing root looks both too narrow and too low. The lower fuselage panelling appears overemphasised and the window layout is strange - what is that gap just ahead of the wing? And the BOAC blue is not right, unless the producers were going for the Instagram look...

And with all the trouble they must have taken to model it, adding or failing to remove the FR probe is very strange!

But the programme, to be fair, seems pretty good so far!

Herod
6th Oct 2017, 19:42
My late father-in-law always advised that, when reading any factual publication, to always go to the source. With that in mind, I have contacted the BBC to ask them about it. Awaiting results.

brakedwell
7th Oct 2017, 11:01
I didn't count the hours.

I did by Hasting, and counted the days! :(


It took two days in an Argosy via Jeddah El Adem Luqa. :ok:

NutLoose
7th Oct 2017, 16:11
Ahhh then it's easy to identify if it's ZA150, as ZA149 and ZA150 being both ex East African Airways have an extra 68psi switch in the Air conditioning ducting..... Strange things you remember of the Vc 10 courses ;)

DaveReidUK
7th Oct 2017, 17:11
Ahhh then it's easy to identify if it's ZA150, as ZA149 and ZA150 being both ex East African Airways have an extra 68psi switch in the Air conditioning ducting..... Strange things you remember of the Vc 10 courses ;)

Fair enough, though I'm confused as to why ZA150 (also an ex-EAA 1154) would be different ?

Jhieminga
9th Oct 2017, 13:14
Having finally grabbed a decent HD screenshot from the first episode of the Last Post I am led to suspect that most of the "VC10" is a CGI model rather than 2D photoshopping over an existing airframe.
That would certainly explain why this is still a mystery. I would have expected someone in the know to have responded and confirmed our suspicions by now.

Please let us know if you hear back from the BBC Herod!

Herod
10th Oct 2017, 10:33
Just an update. I've had a reply from the BBC. They have given me an address for the makers of the series, and I've sent a query off to them.

Herod
10th Oct 2017, 11:36
I've had a reply from the filmmakers. It's completely CGI. here is a link to how it was done.

https://www.facebook.com/blackgingertv/?hc_ref=ARSK3HNFz4MLThpZzBNsRlWlRqJ5SMkFGg8ydRV0KgMX9YMwCHsr sX0JLjSfVpu-xNg&fref=nf

Cunning.

22/04
10th Oct 2017, 12:50
Why did they give that awful dusty colourwash I wonder

smallfry
10th Oct 2017, 13:15
great link to the CGI work... very interesting and realistic!

canberra97
10th Oct 2017, 13:53
The blue could have been a more appropriate BOAC dark blue and a lot neater as well and why did they add the refuelling probe in the CGI.

Herod
10th Oct 2017, 15:50
I don't think they added the probe. It seems it was on the model they used, and nobody thought to take it off. Let's face it, how many on the production team would have been around in that era?

canberra97
10th Oct 2017, 19:04
You are correct the probe was on the model which they used for the VC10 but after CGI it was obviously omitted.

Jhieminga
11th Oct 2017, 08:01
Thanks for letting us know Herod! It was done well, considering that we were all puzzling over possible airframes. Interesting to see that there was a registration on the bullet when they first coloured the model, I guess it faded away when they colourwashed the scene.

DaveReidUK
11th Oct 2017, 09:25
Interesting to see that there was a registration on the bullet when they first coloured the model, I guess it faded away when they colourwashed the scene.

G-ASGC, in fact - the Duxford example. Could be that it was the basis for the digital model that was then used for the CGI.

That would also explain the open NLG doors (though not the FR probe).

Jhieminga
11th Oct 2017, 11:04
Same goes for the main deck cargo door. The wireframe model looks like a K3 to me, but I've e-mailed the company to ask them. At a guess they combined a wireframe model from one source with textures based on the Duxford Super VC10.

Herod
11th Oct 2017, 11:23
Jhieminga. You'll find the production company very helpful. I sent a link to this site, which you might like to do also. They would probably be most interested to follow it. The person responded did say they were most gratified that they were able to make it real enough to spark interest here.

WHBM
11th Oct 2017, 16:06
I wonder where they got the BOAC steps from, with the earlier font than on the aircraft. I presume for the aircraft they coloured it up from a photograph, the CGI has got the perspective of the BOAC letters on the fuselage just right.

I'll bet someone at the production company is looking at all this discussion about the RAF refuelling probe and saying "Blast". :)

The story about the ultra-expensive British Airways television advertisement a few years ago is similar, with the BA 747-400 in full livery sat in front of Terminal 5, which made it right through to public release only for BA Engineering (but obviously not the BA PR department) to all say "that's not one of ours, it's got General Electric engines, look at the different exhaust cowl". The producers had, for some unfathomable reason, not just used a shot of a BA aircraft, with Rolls-Royce engines, which are constantly there, but had taken a Virgin Atlantic 747 image with GE engines and recoloured it into BA livery.

* Just in case the producers do indeed read this, the "inflight refuelling probe" is the long stick which protrudes forward from below the flight deck windows. Airliners don't have this, but when it was sold to the RAF it was adapted to refuel air force fighters in flight, using this equipment. The initial wireframe image must have been based on an RAF aircraft.

Seloco
11th Oct 2017, 22:20
Thanks for following up Herod. I'm relieved that it confirmed a wireframe as the basis for the Super VC10 - that explained a lot! If they'd just left off the FR probe and not done that final "Instagram wash"...

Incidentally there is a slightly later scene in the same opening sequence that features the two new arrivals at the top of the aircraft steps by the front door. I wonder if it's a real aircraft door (but presumably not a VC10 if they shot it all in South Africa) or some more CGI?

Herod
16th Oct 2017, 20:15
I see in the episode screened last night, (15th Oct), there is Whistling Wheelbarrow. Again probably CGI, but I'll leave asking that to someone else.

RedhillPhil
19th Oct 2017, 13:01
There's a man in a published letter in the Times to-day that claims that it's a well known fact that the VC-10 was often referred to by it's pilots as the "Iron Duck".
Eh?

Jhieminga
19th Oct 2017, 13:16
That is indeed one of the nicknames that were used for the VC10. Stemmed from the fact that some of the parts were milled from solid, coupled with the higher weight when compared to the 707.

Bergerie1
19th Oct 2017, 21:54
It was not the VC10 pilots who called it the Iron Duck, it was the rival 707 fleet. We were rather proud of our aircraft. Though, when I moved to the 707 fleet, I found it a delight to fly.....but don't tell VC10 pilots that!!

Terry McCassey
20th Oct 2017, 03:52
Herod - The Argosy likely done the same way. Think I can see the Darts winding down with the props feathered which of course they wouldn't do and no fin flashes.

DaveReidUK
20th Oct 2017, 06:34
Think I can see the Darts winding down with the props feathered which of course they wouldn't do and no fin flashes.

Worse still, adjacent props rotating in opposite directions ŕ la A400M.

Jhieminga
20th Oct 2017, 13:30
From 'The Grub Street Dictionary of International Aircraft Nicknames, Variants and Colloquial Terms (http://amzn.to/2imI45B)' by John Horton:
Vicky Ten - RAF Speak for the beautiful BAC (Vickers) VC10, along with the Big White Bird, and in more recent years Skoda as the original C1 transports have begun to show their age.The 'Iron Duck' nickname wasn't in there, but, as mentioned before, I suspect (know) that this was from the earlier BOAC 707/VC10 rivalry days. I know at least one VC10 pilot also referred to it as such: The aircraft I didn’t want to fly (http://www.vc10.net/Memories/Didntwanttofly.html). He also explains in this story why he had mixed feelings about his time on the VC10.

Herod
20th Oct 2017, 15:13
For those of us who spent time in hot, sandy places: "Freedom Bird"

mcdhu
20th Oct 2017, 16:15
......or those of us who spent time on a desert island - the “VC When” because you never knew when it was coming.
Actually, the 10 didn’t stop there much so it was more a question of watching it’s nav lights pass overhead while watching a movie outside!!
mcdhu

ICM
20th Oct 2017, 18:04
That Argosy fin should have looked like this.

chevvron
21st Oct 2017, 09:18
From 'The Grub Street Dictionary of International Aircraft Nicknames, Variants and Colloquial Terms (http://amzn.to/2imI45B)' by John Horton:
The 'Iron Duck' nickname wasn't in there, but, as mentioned before, I suspect (know) that this was from the earlier BOAC 707/VC10 rivalry days. I know at least one VC10 pilot also referred to it as such: The aircraft I didn’t want to fly (http://www.vc10.net/Memories/Didntwanttofly.html). He also explains in this story why he had mixed feelings about his time on the VC10.

I always thought the RAF referrred to it as the 'Vickers Funbus'.

mcdhu
22nd Oct 2017, 09:11
Actually, Jenks, I recall a certain Mk 1 captain (CH) who, frustrated that there were no flights in the offing back to dear old Blighty, took a flight eastbound to Gan where he blagged his way onto the Funbus and got home significantly quicker than had he sat it out on Masirah waiting for something to appear westbound.
Happy days?
mcdhu

jindabyne
22nd Oct 2017, 11:30
I always thought the RAF referrred to it as the 'Vickers Funbus'.


And at Muharraq it was the 'Moon Rocket'.

Trinity 09L
22nd Oct 2017, 16:23
I remember a comical interlude posted in ATC humour re an US flight to follow a VC10 (unknown type) ahead :D unable to find it:ugh:

Mr Oleo Strut
22nd Oct 2017, 20:49
That is indeed one of the nicknames that were used for the VC10. Stemmed from the fact that some of the parts were milled from solid, coupled with the higher weight when compared to the 707.

You're quite right. Milled from solid they were - but ally, not iron or steel. They took us down to Weybridge to see VC10 production and I well remember the massive German computer-controlled milling machines carving out huge fuselage panels including doors and windows. It was most impressive as were the mountains of shiny and curly swarf. I remember the billets of ally were several inches thick. It was quite a sight and quite a shock for us Handley Page lads used to more conventional construction methods.

chevvron
23rd Oct 2017, 07:14
You're quite right. Milled from solid they were - but ally, not iron or steel. They took us down to Weybridge to see VC10 production and I well remember the massive German computer-controlled milling machines carving out huge fuselage panels including doors and windows. It was most impressive as were the mountains of shiny and curly swarf. I remember the billets of ally were several inches thick. It was quite a sight and quite a shock for us Handley Page lads used to more conventional construction methods.

Did a school visit to Weybridge in about '65 and saw the milling machines. The wing panels were also produced from ally sheet about 3 inches thick and were then shot blasted to curve them into the correct aerofoil section. A small offcut about 10 inches square 'happened' to find itself into the briefcase of one of my mates and it was a school trophy for many years.

Wander00
23rd Oct 2017, 09:00
Quite a bit of "Over and Out" on the radios in last night's programme