Aurigny Air Services-2 [Archive]

Gurnard

14th Sep 2017, 07:30

New Fare Structure Announced Today
Indeed, as predicted. The following has been sent out today in emails:-

New fare structure announced today
More choice, more lower priced flights and hand baggage only fares.

We are pleased to announce important changes to our fare structure, in a move that will give customers the ability to buy tickets which better fit their needs. There will be the chance to save with a new lower, hand baggage only fare, and two other fares which include extras to give passengers more flexibility and peace of mind.

It is the latest change to be announced by the Board of Aurigny, following the publication of the States of Guernsey’s Strategic Review, as we look to improve both customer experience, whilst improving overall financial performance, and contribution to the economy.

The new fares will come into effect in October 2017 and the public will be notified one week prior to the changes coming in. The new fare structure is designed to make Aurigny more competitive and comparable with other airlines, and allow all customers to better tailor their journey to meet their individual needs.

There will be three simple choices to give customers more control and encourage more travel:

LIGHT

Hand baggage-only fare for the traveller who wants the lowest price.

SMART

For the traveller who wants more flexibility. Customers can travel with one hold luggage bag up to 23kg, pick their own seats (excluding extra legroom), and avoid the £40 charge for changing flights (any difference in the fare will still apply).

FLEXI

For maximum flexibility in your travel plans. Customers have double the baggage allowance (up to 46kg), full flexibility to change flights without paying any extra, and the ability to choose any of the seats on the aircraft, including extra leg room. The FLEXI fare is fully refundable up to two hours before departure.

The new system also allows passengers to add a range of extras to their booking, right up until check-in. Such as adding baggage, choosing their seat, or adding other travel essentials like car hire and hotel bookings. The changes are not being introduced on the direct flights to and from Alderney, Southampton, Dinard or Grenoble.

On 20 September we say goodbye to our old website and welcome the new and improved site. Thank you to everyone who has provided feedback on the site during the testing phase, this has helped us to better improve the site ready for launch.

virginblue

14th Sep 2017, 07:53

We are pleased to announc

Well, passengers will undoubtedly be equally pleased. Not.

dcp2608

14th Sep 2017, 08:32

Surely some will !

Malthouse

14th Sep 2017, 11:56

Seems to me they are under they are under the impression their fares are on a par with budget low frills airlines, companies who are able to justify charging for extras on top of their minimum basic pricing.

virginblue

14th Sep 2017, 13:38

Next time you hear an airline CEO or spokesperso bragging about customer-friendly improvements of its fares, make sure you walk around him/her and check his/her back:

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/LyingFingersCross_I_swear_4721.png

Harry Wayfarers

14th Sep 2017, 13:56

In fairness I'd hate to be Aurigny, it's as if they're being stalked by some of the members of this forurm, airport arrival/departure boards, Guernsey Airport CCTV etc.

They're not suggesting that they're trying to compete with the LoCo's but just offering their bread & butter punters options to save money but, just out of curiosity, how would a full load of passengers all with 46kg of hold baggage figure on a Do228?

dcp2608

14th Sep 2017, 14:48

The new fares structure does not apply to routes operated by the 228 ie GCIACI ACISOU and GCIDNR it says so the problem won't arise

virginblue

14th Sep 2017, 15:08

So you seriously believe that Aurigny are simply introducing a lower priced fare without frills whereas the frills inclusive fare remain unchanged? If they do so, it would really be a first...

rog747

14th Sep 2017, 18:06

Baggage charges will kick in in the next month or so, followed by a 3 tier seat charge - Standard Seat, Extra Legroom Seat & Seats near to exits for a swift disembarkation on arrival.

all that choice on a GCI flight??!! OH please do you really need extra legroom or a seat near the door to leg it quick? Aurigny must be really desperate and insulting to their core pax base to think their lot will be swayed by this nonsense - the only way is down

Feet on ground

15th Sep 2017, 07:33

The Aurigny offering is pretty much the same as flybe, BA and easyjet offer on their services to the Channel Islands. If, as you imply, people won't want to pay for bags and seats allocations they won't have to, that's the whole point. Today they all pay whether they want them or not.

virginblue

15th Sep 2017, 09:37

So the new fare without bags/seats then is cheaper than the currently cheapest fare including bags/seats and available for the same amount of seats?

Malthouse

15th Sep 2017, 10:31

At the moment the cheapest fare from Guernsey to East Midlands is around £80, they are suggesting that when the new structure comes in that will be £20 less.

I don't think £60 is a super-duper low price as you would expect to see touted by a budget no frills operator. And the naturally suspicious among us might wonder how long it will take for the new lower price to creep back up to £80.....

kcockayne

15th Sep 2017, 21:34

Fair comments, but the essential point is that AUR does not have to compete with any "budget , no frills , operator".

SWBKCB

16th Sep 2017, 07:31

I don't think £60 is a super-duper low price as you would expect to see touted by a budget no frills operator.

You seriously don't think £60 is as cheap as chips to fly from East Midlands to Guernsey?!?

kcockayne

16th Sep 2017, 07:59

I agree with you, £60 IS an attractive fare to anywhere from Guernsey (especially Jersey!). But, it is nowhere near some of the fares which are available on a low fare carrier e.g. EZY. You can do Jersey to Gatwick for less than £10 on occasion. You can't get anywhere near that with AUR out of Guernsey.

SWBKCB

16th Sep 2017, 08:05

Have the laws of supply and demand changed when I wasn't looking? :ok:

Feet on ground

16th Sep 2017, 08:37

Have you ever actually looked for the cheapest fares, or do you just make it up?

Use the low fare finder on the new Aurigny web site and you'll find that there are no flights to East Midlands in November priced at more than £49.99 and the vast majority are £39.99 and that's before the new fares come in to play. Its pretty much like that for the whole of the winter season. They are higher in the other direction where there is APD and higher airport charges, but the majority are £49.99 with the highest in November being £59.99.

Nowhere near £80 being the cheapest.

https://www.aurignybeta.com/lowest-fare-finder/GCI/EMA#2017-11

Malthouse

16th Sep 2017, 10:48

I stand corrected, thank you.

£40 is a good price, especially if the new fare structure really does knock half of that off!

£20 is much more like the level of pricing where I am happy to pay for seating, bags, etc.

kcockayne

16th Sep 2017, 11:44

I thought that we were referring to return fares between Guernsey & East Midlands. So, my comments referred to that. In that regard, £60 is way less than AUR's return fares, from what I can see from your figures.My point is that a LCC would offer fares much lower than AUR's - at least some of the time. But, AUR does not have to compete against any LCCs. Not that any LCC would find EMA-GCI so attractive that it would want to operate the route !

SWBKCB

16th Sep 2017, 11:59

But, AUR does not have to compete against any LCCs. Not that any LCC would find EMA-GCI so attractive that it would want to operate the route !

Not sure what point you are trying to make? AUR are serving a small market - comparing them to EZY is like comparing a village shop to Tesco's

kcockayne

16th Sep 2017, 13:17

I am merely trying to point out that, despite the new policy, AUR's fares are nowhere near the lower level (which are available elsewhere) that they might be if they had to face competition. AUR serve a small market, & that market wants three things; reliable services, a wider range of destinations & lower fares . It will never get everything that it wants - unless there is competition it will not get appreciably lower fares. But, if it gets competition it will lose reliability & security of routes; & probably lose its state owned airline. It will probably never get a much wider range of destinations unless the States keeps subsidizing AUR. And, if it were to face LCC competition, the need for increased subsidies would be re-emphasized. I can live with that realization, but I am not sure that the Guernsey resident fully appreciates the fact that their national airline cannot provide the low fares that he wants together with meeting what is, essentially, a public service obligation.

Hermite

17th Sep 2017, 13:11

I do sometimes feel sorry for Aurigny. The handlers at Manchester pushed back G-COBO into a catering truck. This has resulted in inevitable knock-on delays, which are no doubt very annoying for those affected. Aurigny posted the event on facebook with estimated times for the affected flights and someone waiting at EMA moans that they haven't been told what is happening and only get 1 hour free wifi. As far as I can see, the new ETD is on the EMA departure board. How much detail do people expect?

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21462733_10155499319815211_931490917811100403_n.jpg?oh=7805b 244be91c8924fa15d0bd2bd125d&oe=5A4FC3B3

Gurnard

17th Sep 2017, 15:47

Fair points. I share your sentiments.
Many who comment here are not "knocking" Aurigny but simply stating facts. In this case surely the airline cannot be blamed in the slightest. Where was the person behind the a/c checking that pushback was safe, as at GCI?

kcockayne

17th Sep 2017, 15:49

Yes, they have recently had more than their fair share of bad luck. And, they are on a hiding to nothing with their obligations & their fares & the expectations of some of the Guernsey public. But, still they are loss making & subsidized - & likely to remain so ad infinitum. The fares referred to earlier are a genuine attempt to provide lower fares but cannot be equated to the ones available on a LCC. In that respect, they are lucky that a LCC is unlikely to offer them any competition. I wish them well, but cannot fail to notice the realities of their operation.

Hermite

17th Sep 2017, 16:59

I don't suppose that the public perception of Aurigny is helped by the headline in the Manchester Evening News that reads "Plane crashes into catering truck at Manchester Airport leaving wing 'embedded' in vehicle". Still, it probably attracts more readers than "Tug driver pushes aircraft into improperly parked catering truck" or something similar (I don't know the details of the event).

At least no major damage seems to have been done. G-COBO is on its way back to GCI now.

Jerbourg

28th Sep 2017, 17:25

Aurigny to work with EasyJet..

Aurigny Enters Partnership With EasyJet - Island FM (http://www.islandfm.com/aurigny-enters-partnership-easyjet/)

The States of Guernsey owned airline says working with ‘Europe’s leading airline easyJet’ will enable Aurigny to attract ‘more inward visitors to the islands by making Guernsey a destination option for the millions of UK and European customers using the easyJet website’.
In a statement, Aurigny says the partnership will launch soon.
Stand-alone tickets on the Aurigny network (with no easyJet route connection) will go on sale by the end of the year at easyJet.com. For islanders it will enable easy luggage transfers, and worry-free, guaranteed connections with easyJet flights at Gatwick. Should a passenger miss a connecting flight they will be transferred to the next available flight. Aurigny has signed a Memorandum of Understanding to be part of Worldwide by easyJet, which is the first global airline connections service of its kind. Aurigny is among the latest airlines to join the product which is available from the easyJet website. In the coming few weeks, Aurigny and easyJet will work on the implementation.
Further details, including a launch date, will be announced in due course. This is the latest announcement to be made by Aurigny since the publication of the recommendations from the States’ Strategic Review, which asked the airline to explore potential partnerships with other carriers.
Aurigny Commercial Director Malcolm Coupar has said:
“We are really excited to be involved in this new initiative with Gatwick’s biggest carrier easyJet. It is great news for people in Guernsey and will help reduce their worries about missing connecting flights. It will also help to promote Guernsey as a holiday and short breaks destination to the millions of visitors to the easyJet site, and make it easier to book a ticket to Guernsey from the wide range of places served by easyJet from Gatwick.”
Peter Duffy, Chief Commercial Office for easyJet, has said:
“The response to Worldwide by easyJet has been fantastic and we are excited to be meeting more latent customer demand through today’s new partnerships. The take up from customers in Jersey gives us confidence that we will see similar demand from Guernsey following our partnership with Aurigny. Partnering with Neos, La Compagnie and Corsair further extends the range of destinations we can serve our European customers and we will be working with our partners to roll-out the self-connect product to relevant airports.”

kcockayne

29th Sep 2017, 16:22

This is, apparently, a good development - but won't , necessarily, translate into lower fares on the AUR network. Will it ?

Gurnard

29th Sep 2017, 20:08

No. The advantage will be for folk making connecting flights and for those affected by delays. Someone who travels with AUR and misses their EZY flight (and has booked in this way) will be put on the next available.

EZY will still be EZY just as AUR will still be AUR. The earlier comparison between the village shop and Tesco is a good one. Look at aircraft utilization. One ATR72 can operate four returns in a day from GCI - to Manchester, Bristol, Stansted, and Manchester. However AUR often split the operation with one ATR doing Manchester and Bristol, with the other doing Stansted and Manchester. An ATR can thus be sitting on the tarmac at GCI for hours on end. Not economic sense perhaps, but at least back-up is there in case of another aircraft being u/s or fog descending.

Put together the EMB195, three ATR72s and one ATR42: you have 5 aircraft. One is regularly acting as a spare out of the five. EZY have a fleet of 279 Airbuses. If 20% were spare every day there would be about 55 Airbuses not flying! No, you can't compare the two outfits; just as chalk and cheese and Tesco and the village shop are different. It's unfair for anyone to try and put AUR in the low-cost league. But at least there is local commitment and they make a genuine attempt to get their pax home to Guernsey at the end of every day.

Hermite

30th Sep 2017, 14:52

The EMA-GCI flight diverted to SOU this afternoon. Any ideas as to why? It was on the ground for less than an hour, so probably not too serious from the a/c point of view.

cobopete

5th Oct 2017, 14:45

GEP today has mention of diversion due to a medical emergency on board. Patient received first aid from crew and passenger (a guernsey nurse). Patient said to be making a good recovery.

Hermite

16th Oct 2017, 10:47

G-COBO has just returned to GCI on the GCI-BRS flight. Followed by fire engines / blue flashing lights to the terminal. The web cams have frozen now so can't see what is going on.

Update - according to Aurigny's facebook page:

UNUSUAL WEATHER

Jersey MET Office has advised us that there have been unusual atmospheric conditions, as can be seen in the colour of the sky and sun. This phenomenon has been attributed to wildfires in Portugal and Spain, with smoke particles being carried over by ex-hurricane Ophelia.
We understand that multiple airlines have reported a smoky smell being experienced whilst flying through the area.
Our Bristol flight GR642, did return to Guernsey as a precaution, but this was before we received this information. The aircraft has been fully checked by engineers and will return to service.

We apologies to all passenger affected by the disruption.

Harry Wayfarers

16th Oct 2017, 17:39

The blue lights are occulting, not flashing! ... And there were numerous other diversions by numerous operators during the day due to the atmospheric conditions!

Skipness One Echo

22nd Oct 2017, 01:14

What was the issue with G-SAYE? Is it just a hangar queen?
Is G-OAUR still with Aurigny?

Hermite

22nd Oct 2017, 11:54

What makes you think that G-OAUR is no longer with Aurigny? Last weeks flights listed below:

20 Oct Alderney (ACI) Guernsey (GCI) GR233
20 Oct Guernsey (GCI) Alderney (ACI) GR230
20 Oct Alderney (ACI) Guernsey (GCI) GR217
20 Oct Southampton (SOU) Alderney (ACI) GR502
20 Oct Alderney (ACI) Southampton (SOU) GR501
20 Oct Guernsey (GCI) Alderney (ACI) -
19 Oct Alderney (ACI) Guernsey (GCI) GR281
19 Oct Southampton (SOU) Alderney (ACI) GR564
19 Oct Alderney (ACI) Southampton (SOU) -
19 Oct Alderney (ACI) Southampton (SOU) GR563
19 Oct Guernsey (GCI) Alderney (ACI) GR262
19 Oct Alderney (ACI) Guernsey (GCI) -
19 Oct Guernsey (GCI) Alderney (ACI) -
19 Oct Alderney (ACI) Guernsey (GCI) -
19 Oct Guernsey (GCI) Alderney (ACI) -
18 Oct Alderney (ACI) -
18 Oct Southampton (SOU) Alderney (ACI) -
18 Oct Alderney (ACI) Southampton (SOU) -
18 Oct Guernsey (GCI) - -
18 Oct Dinard (DNR) Guernsey (GCI) -
18 Oct Guernsey (GCI) Dinard (DNR) -
18 Oct Alderney (ACI) Guernsey (GCI) -
18 Oct Southampton (SOU) Alderney (ACI) GR502
18 Oct Alderney (ACI) Southampton (SOU) GR501
18 Oct Guernsey (GCI) Alderney (ACI) -
17 Oct Alderney (ACI) Guernsey (GCI) -
17 Oct Southampton (SOU) Alderney (ACI) GR564
17 Oct Alderney (ACI) Southampton (SOU) GR563
17 Oct Guernsey (GCI) - -
17 Oct Alderney (ACI) Guernsey (GCI) -
17 Oct Alderney (ACI) Guernsey (GCI) GR217
17 Oct Southampton (SOU) Alderney (ACI) GR502
17 Oct Alderney (ACI) Southampton (SOU) GR501
17 Oct Guernsey (GCI) Alderney (ACI) -
16 Oct Alderney (ACI) Guernsey (GCI) GR281
16 Oct Alderney (ACI) Southampton (SOU) -
16 Oct Guernsey (GCI) Alderney (ACI) -
16 Oct Dinard (DNR) Guernsey (GCI) -
16 Oct Guernsey (GCI) Dinard (DNR) -
16 Oct Alderney (ACI) Guernsey (GCI) GR217
16 Oct Southampton (SOU) Alderney (ACI) GR502
16 Oct Alderney (ACI) Southampton (SOU) GR501
16 Oct Guernsey (GCI) Alderney (ACI) GR202

Skipness One Echo

22nd Oct 2017, 13:36

Ok thanks, my source was wrong. Currently looking at G-OAUR and what I assume is G-SAYE in the Anglo Normandy hangar. Same question, does G-SAYE fly then? G-OMAF is still flying with Aurigny to cover?

cobopete

22nd Oct 2017, 15:55

GOMAF has been supplied to Aurigny by manufacturer as cover for the late delivery of the new aircraft, now I believe due for delivery second quarter next year. LGIS has been flying PAX over the past few days. Not sure what the position with SAYE is.

Hermite

22nd Oct 2017, 16:14

G-SAYE was in service a little over a week ago. I suspect that they regard this somewhat as a spare a/c as it has a lower MTOW than the other a/c (they aren't all of the same type) and as such has reduced capacity.

Gurnard

23rd Oct 2017, 09:42

Correct. After a period of inactivity G-SAYE took to the air for the second half of August while G-LGIS was not flying. When G-LGIS returned to service on 19th September, G-SAYE became less regular apart from 3 successive days in late September when G-OMAF was not flying.
G-SAYE has only flown on four days in October, the 1st, 2nd, 6th and 10th. If I recall correctly the 10th was for a medevac only.

Gurnard

1st Nov 2017, 08:20

G-HUET - Loganair Lease
Positioned GCI-DND yesterday prior to a 2 week lease to operate for Loganair between Dundee and Stansted.

Hermite

6th Nov 2017, 21:20

There is a rumour been posted on the Joey and Friends facebook page that Aurigny may be dropping the ACI-SOU service. I wonder if there is any truth in it.

kcockayne

6th Nov 2017, 22:30

If true, this would be "manna from heaven" for Air Alderney - if they can get the route. I might even say, salvation. When are they starting operations, by the way ?

Gurnard

7th Nov 2017, 07:52

Air Alderney has stated the following:-
We appreciate all the messages received from our supporters and know that you are all keen to receive an update on the progress of Air Alderney.
We can assure you we are working hard to wade through the mountain of paperwork required for our own Air Operators Certificate along with all the necessary requirements of each of our intended destination airports.
Due to the length of time this is taking we have also been working on alternative means of being able to commence our services more quickly.
As many of you may have seen our first aircraft is here in Alderney and our second aircraft which you all helped name as 2-BILL is due home in a matter of weeks.
We have recruited 3 pilots and are currently recruiting the relevant ground handling services required locally and at our destination airports.
Our office at the airport ‘Puffin House’ which will be used by our ground staff and flight crew is now fully operational and ready for use.
We are also happy to announce that our office in Victoria Street located next to Bell & Co will open in the coming weeks. This will become our Town office for information and reservations.
Air Alderney will offer direct flights from Alderney to Jersey, Cherbourg, Solent (previously known as Lee on Solent) and a summer service to Brighton City.

Jetscream 32

7th Nov 2017, 08:17

Increase the rotations from Alderney to Guernsey to connect with the Southampton schedules is a far more sensible and economically viable proposition, along with getting rid of the Do228 altogether and swopping for C208 Caravans to shuttle between the islands, creating a true hub and spoke operation which is what has been needed for a long time!

The C.I. operators need to consolidate to make it easier for commuters, tourism and business to operate:

kirkbymoorside

7th Nov 2017, 12:16

Yes, EASA rules have covered commercial operations of single engine turboprops in IMC since March 2017.

(I just wanted to put yes but the system needs more characters for a post!)

jensdad

7th Nov 2017, 17:07

tescoapp

7th Nov 2017, 17:42

Has the C208 been approved for public transport operations by EASA?

yes but commercial operations over water are still extremely difficult to the point of impossible. The fact that a tri with a full load will end up in exactly the same water as a C208 with a full load both having a single engine failure apparently is beyond the comprehension of all the office bound knob ends.

That said as Guernsey only pays lip service to EASA and UK caa whims (it has no requirement to) its a mute point using them between GCI and Alderney. But having had a pint with a soaking wet C208 captain in the George and Dragon in Dar (I even bought him one when I found out he had been floating around for a couple of hours) my arse won't be in one.

welkyboy

7th Nov 2017, 18:08

Waves seem to be operating between GCI and Jersey everyday now in a C208, at least 3 round trips today carrying fare paying pax........ over the sea also in the dark! I've been advised that the sea state dictates the altitudes to be flown (etops, engine turning or pax swimming!)

kcockayne

7th Nov 2017, 20:31

I visited Guernsey and then Alderney in September, travelling with Flybe NCL-SOU-GCI, and back ACI-SOU with Aurigny and NCL-SOU with Flybe, travelling between the islands on the BumbleBee that only operates two days a week, during summer. Alderney's a beautiful island, and I would love to go back, but with the fares charged between ACI and GCI by Aurigny I would have to think twice, to be honest.
I'm only one punter out of many, of course, but I can't help thinking that cutting ACI-SOU service would be a massive blow to the island's visitor industry.

Yes, it would be. But, that could be the event that would make Air Alderney a viable operation. Also, after all the years trying to get the Dornier to take over from the BN3 & now, just when it has succeeded in doing so, AUR abandon the route which is its sole raison d'etre ! I don't think so.

Gurnard

15th Nov 2017, 20:52

G-HUET
Lease to Loganair is continuing. Not based at DND now but covering for a Do.328 at NWI.

Hermite

19th Nov 2017, 11:56

G-OAUR went to AMS over 3 weeks ago for what I assumed was its annual maintenance. Any idea as to when it is due back?

tescoapp

19th Nov 2017, 12:33

Waves seem to be operating between GCI and Jersey everyday now in a C208, at least 3 round trips today carrying fare paying pax........

presume this is due to the fact that neither Jersey or Gurnsey is actually part of EASA and can and do make there own rules up if required.

Who is the operator of them? Can't see it being an EASA AOC. Good luck to them, they will only ever be able to have one engine failure.

welkyboy

19th Nov 2017, 14:28

Waves operate on a Guernsey AOC, at the moment are restricted(as far as I know), to operate in the Channel Islands only.

V12

19th Nov 2017, 17:01

Good luck to them, they will only ever be able to have one engine failure.

PWC data on one 50,000 PT6A engines give IFSD rate of <1:340,000hr based on 400m flight hours to date.... so don't hold your breath.

bmaviscount

19th Nov 2017, 17:40

presume this is due to the fact that neither Jersey or Gurnsey is actually part of EASA and can and do make there own rules up if required.

Who is the operator of them? Can't see it being an EASA AOC. Good luck to them, they will only ever be able to have one engine failure.

How are people booking
Website not operational yet

deing

19th Nov 2017, 19:19

Single Engine Turbine IFR AOC work is allowed since this year for the PC12, TBM and Caravan. I suppose Waves is one of the first new AOC holders to have this SET approval

tescoapp

20th Nov 2017, 04:43

PWC data on one 50,000 PT6A engines give IFSD rate of <1:340,000hr based on 400m flight hours to date.... so don't hold your breath.

Mate I have sat in the George and Dragon pub in Dar with a very wet pilot who had just been pulled out the drink with his punters after floating about for 3 hours.

And I know enough people who have shut one down in flight in twins.

This is all first hand experience of said engine not third.

I really don't care if others are happy going in them personally I won't be and neither will my family.

That said compared to the tri at full load it won't really make any difference. Mind you I wouldn't go in one of them either.

Harry Wayfarers

20th Nov 2017, 06:46

Surely with a Tri, with two out of three motors still running, there would be more of a controlled ditching than with a 100% engine failure of a single.

Give Clint Eastwood and Tom Hanks a call, there may be another movie in the making!

tescoapp

20th Nov 2017, 07:49

Not really if there isn't enough power to fly straight and level then your options become singular. You also have other effects kicking in such as Vmca which require more pilot input to keep away from if its one of the wing engines.

Ditchings don't require you to find an area clear of obstructions just line your self up with the waves and all that good stuff. With some power but not enough your just prolonging the inevitable. But then again it does give more time for the emergency services to kick into gear. But the actual outcome when you hit the water no different.

BTW the tri has been calibrated off the end of Jersey it does make the beach just with one engine gone bad just after airborne and a full load. I suspect there will be a matter of a couple of 100meters difference between the arrival points between a single and it

tescoapp

20th Nov 2017, 10:22

here you go a video of a ditching next to Hawaii in a c208

https://youtu.be/QguEfBMhpyc

If you want to chance that in CI waters crack on.

V12

20th Nov 2017, 12:00

Whilst I definitely admire your consistency TescoApp, that's the same that Tri passengers faced daily if they were on a fully-laden Tri anytime over the last 40 years; and locals were complaining at its retirement that they missed it, and why couldn't its life be extended!

More relevant for me is the comparative statistical likelihood of either the PT6 failing (as a single point of failure) or the 40-60yr old (single point of failure) pilot having a heart attack or other incapacity: you end up getting wet in both scenarios. But then again how many rotary flights happen daily around the world with single pilot, single engine, and people willingly enjoy those, me included.

[As to the probable cause of this ditching, the operator's maintenance records showed that "owing to some confusion" they had missed a mandatory compressor turbine blade evaluation, which would likely have revealed the defect. ]

Life is a permanent risk, and every hour of every day we make decisions on minimising, but never eliminating, risk. They all carry different probabilities, but I am re-assured because aviation is a very disciplined industry and there's a hell of a lot of work going in to reducing those risks across the board, at airframe, engine, airport, training, maintenance, operational and recruitment levels.

By and large, though, much of the general public pro-actively choose to be risk takers, and a bit ill-disciplined: we get drunk and face increased risk of personal injury; we drive too fast or without sufficient care and attention; too many people use their phones whilst they drive or cross the road; we smoke too much and we eat cr*p fast food which we know these will statistically kill more of us than any plane will; we buy the very cheapest products avoiding the slight premium on safer ones; we go on fairground rides because they are fun; we vote for Br*xit even though it will hurt us, because we don't like the political status quo (ouch...did I really write that!) etc.etc.

Statistically most fatalities happen in the home or in hospital: so if you're that risk averse, avoid both of those places.

To see just how risk prone some folk choose to be, try Googling "Death by Selfie".

tescoapp

20th Nov 2017, 12:19

i agree its a risk and tris did have more than a few upsets over the years and the locals were more than happy with them.

Having had to shut one down on a twin turbine fixed wing I am more than happy not taking the risk of ending up in Channel Islands waters.

If others want to take that risk that's fine by me.

But then again how many rotary flights happen daily around the world with single pilot, single engine, and people willingly enjoy those, me included.

you really don't want to look at the survival statistics for those flights. If they could hold a tri's worth of punters and they all died every time one crashed it you would have a A380's worth of dead punters every year. But as its only 2-3 at a time nobody notices or cares.

Harry Wayfarers

20th Nov 2017, 17:42

I worked for Brymon, one day a Twotter PLH/LHR with a full load had an engine disintegrate, it couldn't maintain altitude and did a dirty dive in to Odiham so the Tri losing an engine is not unique!

cobopete

21st Nov 2017, 14:10

I am wondering what any of the above has to do with Aurigny Air Services which flies neither Caravans, Islanders Trislanders nor Twotters, the airline Waves has its own thread where I believe this discussion belongs.

Gurnard

22nd Nov 2017, 08:16

G-OAUR went to AMS over 3 weeks ago for what I assumed was its annual maintenance. Any idea as to when it is due back?

G-OAUR is on the way back to GCI now having been at AMS since 24th October.

Gurnard

24th Nov 2017, 17:35

ATR activity:-
Presumably ATR42 G-HUET is u/s at Norwich as ATR72 G-COBO positioned from GCI this afternoon and is operating Logan flights.
Also today G-VZON operating to Stansted turned back mid-Channel and returned to GCI. Pax were transferred to G-LERE. However -VZON is now back in service to LGW.

Hermite

25th Nov 2017, 13:06

Both G-COBO and G-HUET now on their way back to GCI. No Loganair flights timetabled from NWI until Monday, so maybe one of them will return for Monday's flights.

Plane.Silly

30th Nov 2017, 07:11

Just seen this article about Aurigny staff wering body cameras to combat aggressive passengers. How can such a small airline have to resort to these measures

Aurigny: Staff on Channel Islands airline are wearing body cameras to combat aggressive passengers | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/aurigny-airline-ground-staff-body-cameras-fitted-aggressive-drunk-plane-passengers-a8082666.html)

canberra97

30th Nov 2017, 18:21

Strange as you don't really look upon the average Aurigny passenger as being the aggressive type, the airline has obviously had issues with some passengers hence this announcement regarding staff and body cameras.

Wycombe

4th Dec 2017, 22:19

In recent times AUR have (arguably) replaced an old aircraft with another old aircraft - or at least an old design in the shape of the Do228, then along come Cessna with a cleansheet design......Cessna SkyCourier (http://cessna.txtav.com/en/turboprop/skycourier)

It's not been built, or flown yet, but FedEx have ordered 50. You do get the feeling it's been designed for them as a twin Caravan (and will have a door big enough to accommodate LD3's), but a 19 pax version is also planned.

tescoapp

5th Dec 2017, 18:21

https://guernseypress.com/news/2017/12/04/blue-islands--waves-is-operating-illegally/

Jetscream 32

5th Dec 2017, 19:58

If you fly scheduled you need to comply - if you try and buck the system it will bite you as other operators are feeling the pain daily! - but on the flip side - its not like the OL financial fitness will be very high for the C208 with a small local schedule - so not a big show stopper....

tescoapp

6th Dec 2017, 00:07

that doesn't apply in the CI anyway as its a tracing paper requirement to comply with any meaningful international aviation requirments.

the trilander box fore years broke every international regulation in the book but they used it.

But if a crew member didn't have their high vis button up there was a fine from that clueless idiot in charge of those sort of things.

Gurnard

7th Dec 2017, 07:52

ATR42 G-HUET
When announcement was made that the GCI-LCY route was being dropped, GR stated that G-HUET would be sold. However it was retained throughout November. A/c positioned GCI-SGD yesterday. Is this for maintenance or onward sale?

Jerbourg

7th Dec 2017, 15:48

I believe that HUET is leased & that Aurigny stated that it would be sub leased, however apart from a brief spell with Loganair I don't think any work has been found for it as yet..

Geo73

7th Dec 2017, 16:09

The ATR 42 was leased in early 2015 for 5 years.

I would imagine that this is a binding contract which Aurigny can't get out of.

Gurnard

7th Dec 2017, 18:47

Thanks. Probably a matter of semantics. Looking back to the 16 August the announcement was that GR would drop the ATR42 from its fleet. The wording was not "sell" - and G-info confirms that it is indeed "chartered" rather than owned. Probably therefore a case of awaiting more work. :confused:

KelvinD

30th Dec 2017, 06:06

This morning, the airline have decided there was no lightning strike after all, although they are not yet offering an explanation of what happened to the electrics. To be fair, there was a fair bit of lightning activity around the South coast at the time. I was a bit surprised at the company's explanation of the decision to abandon a diversion to Southampton because it would mean flying back into the storms. Returning to Guernsey would also involve flying back through the storms as they appeared to be very active over that part of the Channel.
Guernsey plane U-turn not caused by 'lightning strike' - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-guernsey-42511823)

Harry Wayfarers

31st Dec 2017, 05:51

I was a bit surprised at the company's explanation of the decision to abandon a diversion to Southampton because it would mean flying back into the storms

NATS said the plane had been on course to divert to land at Southampton Airport but this would have meant "flying further into the storm at that time".

Rather than slate the operator off at every given opportunity how about getting the facts correct ... It was National Air Traffic Services that stated a diversion to SOU would have encountered the storm ... Whilst the aircraft has weather radar, providing that that had not been damaged by the electrical problem, who has the ability to see the Cumulus Nimbus clouds on radar, NATS or the spotters on a forum?

'SAM' is an en-route beacon, of course it would have been heading for the Southampton Airport beacon!

Hermite

18th Jan 2018, 12:12

G-HUET flew to LGW on Saturday as flight GR608. The return flight was cancelled and the a/c appears to still be at LGW, at least according to FR24. Any ideas as to what is going on?

Aero Mad

18th Jan 2018, 15:39

As reported elsewhere, Air Alderney has applied (https://www.gov.gg/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=111456&p=0) to operate a scheduled cargo service between Guernsey and Alderney with EC155 equipment and two BN-2T Islanders as back-up. Mark Darby's objection, in a letter to Dep. Barry Paint, is available to view here (https://1drv.ms/b/s!AjNE2_9ruuiph3NGKqp1bgOJPzuj).

Jerbourg

18th Jan 2018, 16:10

G-HUET flew to LGW on Saturday as flight GR608. The return flight was cancelled and the a/c appears to still be at LGW, at least according to FR24. Any ideas as to what is going on?

It had an oil leak on arrival at LGW apparently & according to my source is awaiting an engine change.

Hermite

24th Feb 2018, 12:06

The new Dornier is due in the next 4 months. Has there been any news on this, or is the date likely to be extended again?

Aero Mad

24th Feb 2018, 17:10

Difficult to confirm at the moment. RUAG's record has been quite poor but expect by Q3.

Hermite

7th Mar 2018, 08:21

Just wondering if anyone knows what happened with G-SAYE on the GR203 flight this morning. It circled over Guernsey for a while before landing. There seemed to be lots of airport vehicle activity waiting for the a/c, which didn't go to the normal stand.

Gurnard

7th Mar 2018, 09:22

ITV News reports undercarriage problems and an emergency declared, but the a/c landed safely. It remained on the runway while pax were taken off.

Gurnard

7th Mar 2018, 09:28

G-LGIS
On the Dornier theme, this a/c has not flown since the 17th December 2017. Does anyone know why it has been out of service for so long? This same airframe did not fly between July 2016 and March 2017, spending 6 months back at the factory. Another 2.5 months in the hangar at GCI seems more than a major overhaul. A lame duck?

Hermite

7th Mar 2018, 09:38

G-LGIS came out of the hanger and headed off down the taxiway shortly after the problem with G-SAYE. Perhaps it has just been hanging around as a spare a/c for the last couple of months.

Buster the Bear

7th Mar 2018, 10:03

Emergency at Guernsey Airport due to Dornier issues | Channel - ITV News (http://www.itv.com/news/channel/2018-03-07/emergency-at-guernsey-airport-due-to-dornier-issues/)

Gurnard

12th Mar 2018, 19:56

G-LERE
Operated today's GR694 GCI-EMA but abandoned the climb and returned to GCI. Aircraft was on the ground for over 3 hours before departing again as GR1694. Does anyone know the reason for the return to GCI? This kind of thing is not uncommon with GR's ATR72s.

Harry Wayfarers

13th Mar 2018, 05:40

Gurnard

13th Mar 2018, 09:08

Yes, I'm aware of that as Aurigny stated as much on Facebook. I was looking for anything a little more specific.

Harry Wayfarers

13th Mar 2018, 09:23

Yes, I'm aware of that as Aurigny stated as much on Facebook. I was looking for anything a little more specific.

It could be something as insignificant as a disfunctional light bulb or a faulty electrical connection ... There are more important things in life to worry about!

northsands

16th Mar 2018, 12:41

Anyone know if Aurigny will be operating a weekly Guernsey to Norwich schedule again this summer 2018?

rog747

16th Mar 2018, 16:25

Anyone know if Aurigny will be operating a weekly Guernsey to Norwich schedule again this summer 2018?

quick look shows sunday flights may-oct

Hermite

19th Mar 2018, 12:17

All of the Aurigny flights have been delayed this morning, some the Flybe flights cancelled and others also delayed. Comments on facebook (supported by Aurigny) are that this is caused by not being able to deice the a/c when it is snowing. This sounds rather unusual. Does anyone know the full story behind this? Jersey is operating normally.

jp54

19th Mar 2018, 12:36

By the sounds of things they only have Type I fluid which is not a great deal of use while it is still snowing.

Jetscream 32

19th Mar 2018, 13:06

Not exactly a traditional icing region - although I was there March 13 when we had a decent blanket.... still it will be back up to 12 degrees tomorrow!

Hermite

19th Mar 2018, 23:20

I know that Guernsey weather is milder than most of the UK, but I'm surprised that they aren't better equipped for de-icing. There are reports of similar weather in JCI which was operating more or less normally.

Gurnard

20th Mar 2018, 08:29

I can confirm that the above posts are correct. The de-icing fluid available in GCI cannot be used when it is snowing, otherwise it re-freezes. Let's hope that two lots of snow in one month cause a rethink!

Jetscream 32

20th Mar 2018, 13:46

cobopete

20th Mar 2018, 14:39

A rethink to what? Storing more really expensive Type IV fluid that has to come in by boat in the first place plus the training required for the application... This is the channel islands we are talking about not Heathrow.....
It should also be remembered that Guernsey cannot tolerate any contamination to the water supply with all run-off collected and routed to the reservoir for drinking water. Remember the PFOS incident - the contaminated soil is still stored at the airport. This may well be the reason de-icer needs to be water soluble.
PS This is the Aurigny thread, not Guernsey Airport. Further discussion of this topic should be continued there.
Pete

canberra97

26th Mar 2018, 17:26

Eastern Airways operate two Embraer 170.

kcockayne

26th Mar 2018, 18:29

Does anyone know if Aurigny's E195 is actually profitable, it seems strange that them along with Eastern Airways UK operate only 1 Embraer as well considering Flybe have 9 of them on very expensive leases.

AUR, as an airline, is not profitable & is bailed out by the Guernsey taxpayer every year. With this in mind, I should think that the E195 is not profitable either. Gatwick - Guernsey is the only regular route that it operates & is their most frequent & important route . So, I would guess from this fact that it is unprofitable. AUR only have 1 E195 because they do not have any other routes which would justify the use of another one, & there is not the demand on the Gatwick route that would justify a second a/c.

cobopete

26th Mar 2018, 18:33

The E195 operates 4 rotations daily to Gatwick and back. It is supplemented by up to 3 ATR72 a day on the route. This gives the required number of seats per day on the route. The Gatwick route makes a profit for Aurigny unlike most of its others to Stansted, East Midlands, Bristol and Manchester from GCI, which are all marginal with pax numbers only justifying an ATR 72. There is no requirement for an additional jet in the fleet as its load factor would be well under 50% most of the time.
PS Not true that Gatwick is only regular route: Man is X2 daily, others are at X1 daily except at very off peak times.

kcockayne

26th Mar 2018, 18:57

Just to clarify what I said, Pete; Guernsey - Gatwick is the only regular route that the E195 operates. I think I am correct in that statement.

cobopete

26th Mar 2018, 19:30

I was only asking about if the E195 was profitable, Myself I hardly see the need for it they would have been better off to contract out the route to Flybe who have plenty of capacity.
You are correct Kockayne, although the 195 was briefly used on a Saturday service to Barcelona 2 summers back.

It would not be politically possible for the Guernsey government to give the "lifeline" London hub airport route to Gatwick to FlyBE who have proved in the past they are prepared to sell the slots to the highest bidder and leave Guernsey reliant for its international banking visitors to fly from Stansted or other "inferior" airports.

cobopete

26th Mar 2018, 19:48

True but Flybe did this to a lot of routes, Newquay to Gatwick which is now paid for by a government grant, Gatwick to Newcastle(axed by Flybe)
Guernsey does not come within UK government jurisdiction so wil never get support or grant.

cobopete

26th Mar 2018, 20:45

I was just saying that, not suggesting thats what Guernsey should do. Anyway as for you saying about the political impact of Flybe operating the service, Aurigny already has done it, before its E195 arrived, it hired in a Flybe E195 to provide cover, so why not instead of buying a brand new one and paying the lease, as well as having to train crew etc, why didn't they do a wet lease with Flybe, saving themselves money? It would have also been beneficial to Flybe who have an overcapacity in E195s both with crew and airframes, a wet lease would have given certainty to the people of Guernsey and would have allowed Flybe to make use of an aircraft that would otherwise be sitting in storage at Exeter or Newquay.

Aurigny obviously calculated that operating an owned aircraft was the most cost effective solution compared with a wet lease with FlyBE; the current aircraft is extremely reliable and gives the Guernsey public all the certainty it needs. Utilisation by FlyBE of its aircraft is not a concern of the Guernsey government.

Geo73

26th Mar 2018, 21:36

Being a direct customer Aurigny received a lot of support from Embraer.

If I recall correctly an Embraer employee was based in Guernsey for a number of months.

This would not have happened if they had leased a Flybe aircraft.

Ayline

28th Mar 2018, 02:23

In any event is it not the plan for Flybe to phase out their E195s completely. The only sure way to guarantee operations is to have total control of the service. Guernsey has been left high and dry before, BA and more recently KLMuk.

Gurnard

28th Mar 2018, 07:39

ATR72 STANSTED INCIDENT
G-COBO operating GR627 STN-GCI declared an emergency after take off yesterday. The fault was a hydraulic issue. After holding in the area, the a/c landed safely but the flight to GCI was cancelled. Details in Hertfordshire Mercury and elsewhere.

virginblue

28th Mar 2018, 20:32

Ever since Air UK sold its LHR slots used for a GCI service, with the result of the LHR-GCI service getting axed, Guernsey has been traumatized and worried about a possible loss of its remaining "proper" London service to Gatwick. Therefore they are not exactly in bean-counter mode.

Rivet Joint

7th Apr 2018, 14:09

Seems like there is now going to be a lot of competition on the island routes. Waves, air Alderney and Clear Harbour all looking to establish themselves. Does this spell the end of the additional new Dornier? No news about its arrival.

Hermite

20th May 2018, 11:04

GOMAF returned to Oberpfaffenhofen a few weeks ago. Does anyone know whether / when it will be returning?

Gurnard

23rd May 2018, 13:30

GOMAF returned to Oberpfaffenhofen a few weeks ago. Does anyone know whether / when it will be returning?
TODAY! It flew OBF-GCI as GR10P.

Jerbourg

26th May 2018, 15:14

Last year Aurigny trumpeted it's tie up with the easyJet's 'Worldwide Connections' enabling pax to check in at GCI and collect bags at their final destination,here we are at the end of May
& still nothing is available to book. Has anyone an update on this or has it died a quiet death?

Hermite

26th May 2018, 16:03

Jerbourg

16th Jun 2018, 09:03

Gurnard

20th Jun 2018, 21:04

The Embraer seems to have suffered quite a few tech issues/delays in recent weeks & I see it is once again tech & stuck at LGW this morning, :(
UPDATED. Long delays & cancelled flights have followed, there is lack of back up aircraft as one ATR is on a day stop in Bordeaux.
Does it really take this long to get a spare part (brake parts from Sussex apparently) roaded up & fitted?

Police called to GCI airport to deal with unruly passengers.

Aurigny - The Islanders airline!!

Can you provide the source of information for Police being "called to GCI airport to deal with unruly passengers." News sources tell of unrest, complaints, and a distinct lack of information at LGW but not at GCI.

Hermite

24th Jun 2018, 08:28

G-HUET seems to have aborted today's flight to Norwich and is returning to Guernsey. I wonder why?

Jerbourg

24th Jun 2018, 15:56

Can you provide the source of information for Police being "called to GCI airport to deal with unruly passengers." News sources tell of unrest, complaints, and a distinct lack of information at LGW but not at GCI.

I had this information from a member of GR ground staff & took it to be true.
The local media do not get informed of every call out the police get & I would imagine that GR wouldn't want that sort of publicity either hence they wouldn't mention it in a media release.

Gurnard

25th Jun 2018, 07:43

I had this information from a member of GR ground staff & took it to be true.
The local media do not get informed of every call out the police get & I would imagine that GR wouldn't want that sort of publicity either hence they wouldn't mention it in a media release.
Thanks for that.

Jerbourg

13th Jul 2018, 18:15

Aurigny have signed a letter of intent to purchase three new ATR72-600 equipped with 'ClearVision'

ATR Aircraft (http://www.atraircraft.com/newsroom/pressrelease/aurigny-signs-letter-of-intent-for-three-atr-72-600s-equipped-with-the-new-clearvision-system-1495-en.html?platform=hootsuite)

kcockayne

13th Jul 2018, 18:40

Hermite

16th Jul 2018, 12:24

There is a Dornier 228NG parked outside the hangar at GCI, reg D-CNEU. Could this be Aurigny's second NG?

Gurnard

16th Jul 2018, 13:03

There is a Dornier 228NG parked outside the hangar at GCI, reg D-CNEU. Could this be Aurigny's second NG?
My initial thought was that it was. However, D-CNEU is by no means a new aircraft, having seen service with the German Navy as well as being a flying test bed for RUAG. I think we'll have to wait a little longer for GR's next NG. https://www.pprune.org/images/icons/winksbuddie.gif

Hermite

16th Jul 2018, 13:12

My initial thought was that it was. However, D-CNEU is by no means a new aircraft, having seen service with the German Navy as well as being a flying test bed for RUAG. I think we'll have to wait a little longer for GR's next NG. https://www.pprune.org/images/icons/winksbuddie.gif
Interestingly though it has just flown to ACI with an Aurigny flight number (AUR40T).

.... and back again.

Wycombe

16th Jul 2018, 14:14

There is a Dornier 228NG parked outside the hangar at GCI, reg D-CNEU

Aircraft routed from Fairford this morning, where it was in the RIAT static display (next to another Do-228 from the Dutch Coastguard) over the weekend.

Nuweiba

18th Jul 2018, 06:57

It claims to be coming soon on the EasyJet web site.

Its up ! Guernsey is now online on the EJ site ( OK, worldwide site ). You can fly from Guernsey to Gatwick for 3 quid more than the Aurigny flight. Dinard is also shown but all the date I searched were fully booked.

Mind you, Isle of Man and Jersey are online but do not show all possible connections.

Hermite

11th Aug 2018, 09:35

Gurnard

12th Aug 2018, 19:39

I see from jethros.org.uk that the new Dornier NG will be registered as G-ETAC, although that registration doesn't yet appear on G-INFO. I guess that this means that the new a/c is due shortly, albeit long delayed from its original delivery date. Does anyone have any information as to when the new a/c will be arriving? It would also be interesting to know of the plans for the old Dorniers (G-LGIS and G-SAYE. Having two different generations with different cockpits must be a drain on Aurigny's resources. Maybe they will order a third NG.
That will probably depend upon finance. With 3 new ATR72s suggested there are likely to be some constraints. . ACI routes are notoriously loss-making so a third NG is probably unlikely. As to the ancient Do228s, G-SAYE has not flown for over a month and may be finished. The suggestion still persists that a composite airframe will be produced with SAYE donating its wings to LGIS. We await confirmation.

Hermite

2nd Sep 2018, 18:51

It looks like the new Dornier (G-ETAC) wil be in the Islands next week - Press Release - Arrival of New Dornier Welcomed - Alderney (http://alderney.gov.gg/article/167058/Press-Release---Arrival-of-New-Dornier-Welcomed)

Hermite

7th Sep 2018, 17:40

Rivet Joint

7th Sep 2018, 18:01

G-ETAC is outside the hangar at the moment. Not sure when it arrived at GCI.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/2000x635/screen_shot_2018_09_07_at_18_35_43_5f9006bd654f94f4f7b9b039f 0980d775db5f854.png

Good spot, genuinely thought this had fallen through. Would be a bit awkward if they lose the routes now.

Hermite

7th Sep 2018, 18:29

As to the ancient Do228s, G-SAYE has not flown for over a month and may be finished. The suggestion still persists that a composite airframe will be produced with SAYE donating its wings to LGIS. We await confirmation.

G-SAYE was out on a medivac flight on the 5th September, so I guess it isn't finished. They do now have enough a/c that don't have the limited loading restriction, so maybe its days are numbered.

jensdad

7th Sep 2018, 19:38

Going off-topic a little... when I was there in July I noticed some civilian-registered RAF-marked King Airs, and the webcam shows one today as well. Are they regulars at GCI?

gkmeech

7th Sep 2018, 21:04

G-ETAC was delivered today via SOU

Jerbourg

8th Sep 2018, 10:29

Going off-topic a little... when I was there in July I noticed some civilian-registered RAF-marked King Airs, and the webcam shows one today as well. Are they regulars at GCI?

There was I believe 5/6 that were at GCI for a few months awaiting sale after service with the RAF, most have now been sold on.

jensdad

8th Sep 2018, 14:27

That explains it. Thanks for that, Jerbourg.
Just realised I should have posted that on the GCI thread, not the Aurigny one. Apologies.

Hermite

8th Sep 2018, 20:08

G-ETAC was delivered today via SOU
Just curious, but why are Aurigny's aircraft delivered via a UK airport rather than direct to Guernsey?

Hermite

17th Sep 2018, 19:20

G-OMAF returned to Oberpfaffenhofen today.

Egda

26th Oct 2018, 12:23

The BBC in the Channel Islands have announced today that Aurigny will stop their Dinard Flights from Guernsey in 2019 stating

The company's board said it based its decision on three key factors:

A lack of demand on the Dinard route in 2018, with under 1,500 bookings, representing a load factor of less than 50%
An 80% decline in passenger numbers over the last 10 years
A need to focus the Dornier resources on the Alderney operation and service levels required by the Public Service Obligation, should Aurigny be successful

Mark Darby, Aurigny's CEO is quoted as saying, "This is not a decision the board has taken lightly, but unfortunately, it just no longer makes commercial sense for us to operate the route. Of course, the way is open for another operator to operate the route should they believe that it would be viable."
So what was the point in the Dorniers? the Alderney route is being tendered, the planes have been late, cost a fortune, leading to the huge losses and now the route is abandoned.

kcockayne

26th Oct 2018, 17:24

No need to worry. With “Open Skies” now operating there should be no lack of airlines “champing at the bit” to operate the route ; & the possible runway extension will allow them to operate larger a/c & lower the fares !

Jerbourg

26th Oct 2018, 19:16

Aurigny does nothing to promote DNR so this is sadly not a surprise, I doubt many Guernsey folk even realise there's a link to France.

bricquebec

27th Oct 2018, 15:09

We have discussed before ( several times) the total failure of Aurigny to promote such routes. Yet another one is killed off by their apathy.

kcockayne

27th Oct 2018, 16:54

I suppose that if you are operating a route carrying a max. of 150 pax per week, that it doesn't rank very highly in your priorities. Having said that, it is pretty pointless offering services which you do very little to sell !

Hermite

21st Nov 2018, 10:19

I wonder why G-OAUR's tail and rudder have been removed.

Jersey32D

21st Nov 2018, 11:13

I wonder why G-OAUR's tail and rudder have been removed.

[img]http://www.aurignycam.com/aurignycam/gciwestapron.jpg?Wed%20Nov%2021%202018%2011:16:02%20GMT+0000 %20(GMT)

That Dornier 228 looks intact to me?

Hermite

21st Nov 2018, 12:25

That Dornier 228 looks intact to me?

The rudder and horizontal stabilisers are missing.

Hermite

1st Dec 2018, 15:03

cobopete

1st Dec 2018, 15:15

Does anyone have any idea what has happened to G-OAUR? It hasn't been out for around a month now, and was last seen on webcam (at least by me) on 21 November with rudder and horizontal stabilisers missing.
Saw GOAUR on ramp outside AN hangar yesterday 30/11 on webcam with all white rudder and horizon stabs.
Pete

Hermite

1st Dec 2018, 16:13

Saw GOAUR on ramp outside AN hangar yesterday 30/11 on webcam with all white rudder and horizon stabs.
Pete
Thanks for the info. I wonder what was wrong with the originals - I don't suppose rudders and horizontal stabalisers are replaced that often.

yeo valley

2nd Dec 2018, 02:45

Thanks for the info. I wonder what was wrong with the originals - I don't suppose rudders and horizontal stabalisers are replaced that often.

If either have bearings,then perhaps bearings replaced.
Just my thoughts. Perhaps an engineer can confirm if there is bearings in either.

cobopete

15th Dec 2018, 10:37

Guernsey government agreed (yesterday 14Dec) to becoming guarantor for £46M loan for Aurigny to purchase 3new ATR 600 fitted with “ClearVision” fog busting” IR HUD to replace current ATR. First delivery August next year other 2 before next Xmas. Studies showed purchase to be more cost effective than lease.

snchater

15th Dec 2018, 16:33

Studies showed purchase to be more cost effective than lease.

And yet almost every major carrier consider leasing to be the more cost effective option .....

Gurnard

15th Dec 2018, 17:33

And yet almost every major carrier consider leasing to be the more cost effective option .....

The States of Guernsey often have different ideas. :=

cobopete

15th Dec 2018, 17:43

I understand it had a lot to do with the terms ATR were prepared to offer for Aurigny to be the lead customer for their new technology - possibly because the islands provide an ideal place and conditions to show off its benefits!
Pete
The independant consultants engaged to study the options available estimated leasing cost of an ATR600 to be £130,000 a month per aircraft. You do the sums!

Hermite

15th Dec 2018, 18:15

And yet almost every major carrier consider leasing to be the more cost effective option .....

Are you sure that this is true? Looking at G-INFO, most seem to have a mix of leased and owned. I can understand leasing for a short term requirement, but for an a/c required in the long term, how can paying the leasor who has to buy the a/c and also make a profit be cheaper than buying the a/c themselves and not contributing to a leasor's profits?

cobopete

15th Dec 2018, 18:44

I forgot to take into account that COBO and VZON have part exchange value of approx $16 million making the “buy” deal even better for Aurigny.

cobopete

28th Dec 2018, 18:26

I note that while GNSEY was down earlier this week awaiting part for repair, two Titan Airbus A320 GPOWK and GPOWM were leased to operate the Gatwick route. Does anyone know what PAX number restrictions are applied to allow them to operate in and out of GCI?
Thanx
Pete

five zero by ortac

26th Feb 2019, 11:26

Aurigny have announced two additional routes;
GCI - SOU
GCI - JER
Both with their ATR42, twice daily, from May.

I guess Flybe / Blue Islands won't be too happy.

GCILover

26th Feb 2019, 11:29

Aurigny have announced two additional routes;
GCI - SOU
GCI - JER
Both with their ATR42, twice daily, from May.

I guess Flybe / Blue Islands won't be too happy.

So these routes have already proved that they cannot sustain 2 operators. How on earth do Aurigny think that by adding more flights which will have to be at a reduced fair to gain customers will help them to break even,

Stop ordering new technology and new aircraft before that technology is approved might be a good place to start.

Jerbourg

26th Feb 2019, 15:59

And another new route to be announced shortly too I hear,
I wonder if it will be domestic or European?

kcockayne

26th Feb 2019, 17:11

Standby for even greater operational losses; & an opportunity for the States to bail them out for an even more substantial sum ! It just highlights the absurdity of it all as, while AUR are being bailed out, the States will also be subsidizing their main competitors to the tune of £825,000 to provide a Heathrow service which takes business away from their “ in house” airline ! You really could not make it up ! Just heard the Managing Director of AUR saying that the fares for these routes “will be attractive” - just wait - they may achieve losses even greater than I am expecting.

bmaviscount

26th Feb 2019, 21:25

Fascinating
History repeating itself on SOU and JER; SOU always used to have 2 operators and what happened to the BI/GR joint inter-island venture.
cant believe there is the demand
Shame Waves went bust
Inter island needs a higher frequency of small plane; Dornier better suited?

cobopete

27th Feb 2019, 13:21

Press releases state that the “spare” ATR 42 GHUET is to be used.
Pete

Hermite

5th Apr 2019, 08:03

Aurigny have been retiming the Alderney flights for a few days now. Anyone know why?

Egda

5th Apr 2019, 12:37

Shortage of ATC I believe, especially around Midday

five zero by ortac

5th Apr 2019, 13:32

Two aircraft on maintenance, one aircraft is tech awaiting parts, so only one serviceable aircraft. Hence the schedule going out the window.

Hermite

8th Apr 2019, 19:20

G-ETAC is back in service today but has a white rudder. Has this been replaced, and if so, what was wrong with the old one. I seem to recall that G-OAUR also appeared with a white rudder a few months ago. Same problem on both a/c?

Jerbourg

3rd Jul 2019, 11:22

I'm hearing whispers that STN is to be dropped from the schedule, if this is true it seems that maybe the new Flybe & Blue Islands routes to LHR & SEN have eaten away at the passenger loads..

KindaUnstuck

3rd Jul 2019, 12:41

I'm hearing whispers that STN is to be dropped from the schedule, if this is true it seems that maybe the new Flybe & Blue Islands routes to LHR & SEN have eaten away at the passenger loads..

It's been on the cards for a while, when I came back through Stansted last August the flight was late and the captain apologised and said that they had been having issues with the handling agents and that the route had been looked at carefully within the airline as it was causing Aurigny a headache but at that time it would continue for now due to lack of alternatives... maybe that and the other routes opening mean Aurigny are going to review their decision.

Whilst not necessarily unusual, I have noticed the ATR 42 seems to have done the Stansted run before it does the evening Jersey and Southampton runs a few times recently, suggesting that the loads are at best in the mid
40s each way

kcockayne

3rd Jul 2019, 21:11

That is the point. Guernsey - London has a limited clientele. If you widen the options, you divide the available traffic between more operators. Simple, really. This neatly illustrates the folly of the States subsidizing their State airline & simultaneously subsidizing its main competitor !

Jerbourg

15th Jul 2019, 17:45

Two out of the three 228's have been tech numerous times over the last week - one for the entire week causing many cancellations.

Aurigny - The Islanders Airline.... (cough cough)

Hermite

16th Jul 2019, 14:46

Is there a crewing issue here - some crew going tec in addition to the a/c? I notice they are just running G-OAUR again today but have had time off rather than keeping up with just the one a/c - crew breaks maybe?

Also, do they need different crews for G-LGIS as it is a different variant?

Gurnard

16th Jul 2019, 16:08

Most aircrew are able to fly the older Do228 as well s the NGs.
I understand there has been a deterioration since ops was transferred from ACI to LGW. Last month saw "crew shortage" on occasions - not because of sickness but bungled rosters - giving crew time off but failing to provide cover. This resulted in flight cancellations and reschedulings so that one a/c could do all the flights for one day.

Jerbourg

16th Jul 2019, 18:26

The continually whinging CEO strikes again, he appears to forget that the taxpayer has subsidised his airline for 10's of million over the years & will continue to do so until decent management can turn the airline into profit.
https://gsy.bailiwickexpress.com/gsy/news/heathrow-subsidy-unsustainable-and-destabilising-market-darby/#.XS4WL25FxPY

kcockayne

16th Jul 2019, 19:16

The continually whinging CEO strikes again, he appears to forget that the taxpayer has subsidised his airline for 10's of million over the years & will continue to do so until decent management can turn the airline into profit.

https://gsy.bailiwickexpress.com/gsy/news/heathrow-subsidy-unsustainable-and-destabilising-market-darby/#.XS4WL25FxPY
I seriously want AUR to be profitable but, do you really think that there is even a small chance of this ever happening ?

Gurnard

16th Jul 2019, 20:26

Can't see that happening as long as it remains a States-owned airline. Your comment on the 3rd July hit the nail on the head perfectly. How absurd to subsidize not just your own airline but a competitor (flybe) too! Some Guernsey politicians evidently are making Westminster their role model.

Egda

17th Jul 2019, 09:37

cobopete

17th Jul 2019, 11:05

Aurigny could use their Embraer 195 jet or as previous posters have stated the ATR72 can be operated into and out of Heathrow. It just needs careful management of approach and climb out speeds.

virginblue

17th Jul 2019, 13:58

Is there any information available how many passengers on the LHR flights are actually connecting via LHR to/from another destination (and if so, to/from a destination not available at LGW). I would supsect the percentage of connecting passengers is rather low, gven the frequency of the BE flight, so that the whole exercise looks more like a vanity project. Generally, it makes a lot of sense to concentrate on high frequencies from LGW instead of spreading operations between two large London airports. If at all, a low frequency, low fare service from another London airport - such as the Aurigny service to STN - makes senses that targents a different clientele.

Skipness One Foxtrot

17th Jul 2019, 15:26

I suspect the subsidy would have been given to Aurigny if they had an aircraft capable of using Heathrow
Is there an issue with the ATR72 at LHR? Hop used them as slot sitters in recent years, and flybe DHDs are now remarkably common.

Fly757X

17th Jul 2019, 15:50

Is there an issue with the ATR72 at LHR? Hop used them as slot sitters in recent years, and flybe DHDs are now remarkably common.

DH8Ds are Category C now from what I've heard and seen at Dublin. ATRs are still only B, however, exceptions can be made.

Sharklet_321

29th Jul 2019, 10:37

The approach speeds into LHR for the Q400 are very similar to narrowbody jets so this is why they are so compatible with LHR

bmaviscount

3rd Aug 2019, 18:42

Flew the GCI LHR this week

Really took me back to the Air UK days

Lovely to ser the Dash 8 compete with the big jets

We were however delayed 3 hours due to the Dash going tech

Chatting to 2 business guys who had come to GcI for the day; couldn't understand why there were no direct European flights from the channel islands these days

Surely GR could do at least a daily GCI JER CDG?

(ir maybe better Flybe with AF codeshares)

The feeling was that Aurigny were just trying to preserve their gatwick route which is not brilliant for connections

I hope flybe keep the LHR route into the winter

Im trying the SEN route in a couple of weeks ; I can’t imagine the loads are very high on that

I do note that Blue Islands have improved their GCI JER LCY connectivity for the winter timetable

KindaUnstuck

3rd Aug 2019, 20:41

The feeling was that Aurigny were just trying to preserve their gatwick route which is not brilliant for connections

The Guernsey - Stansted route has supposedly been under review for a very long time now, even before the Southend and Heathrow routes were announced,

I noticed in the latest Gatwick slot report for Winter 2019 that they had applied (and were turned down) for another weekly slot pair (presumably to bring GR602/ 603 flights up to daily like all the other are.

The interesting thing would be how many people have they taken away from their own Gatwick service by starting up Southampton (where the flight prices seem to be generally cheaper than their LGW prices as they are trying to take passengers off Blue Islands) - it won't be huge numbers but it's probably a factor in their Gatwick figures being down a little although not as big a factor as the Heathrow service which I really hope stays around

AirportPlanner1

3rd Aug 2019, 21:50

Im trying the SEN route in a couple of weeks ; I can’t imagine the loads are very high on that

Why not? It had a JER route even before the new terminal was there and the current incarnation with EZY seems to be going strong.

The CAA figures for first few days of operation in May were reasonable. I’ve heard it’s been doing OK generally, although not sure about yield as there seem to have been various promotions.

asdf1234

4th Aug 2019, 05:32

Why not? It had a JER route even before the new terminal was there and the current incarnation with EZY seems to be going strong.

The CAA figures for first few days of operation in May were reasonable. I’ve heard it’s been doing OK generally, although not sure about yield as there seem to have been various promotions.

I flew outbound from SEN to GCI recently. 27 pax including me. Not good given that we are in the peak holiday season.

Expressflight

4th Aug 2019, 07:03

I flew outbound from SEN to GCI recently. 27 pax including me. Not good given that we are in the peak holiday season.
The load factor for June was 46% unless there were any cancelled flights I'm not aware of. There seems to have been a large increase in capacity on GCI-LON this year and the decision to fly GCI-SEN daily seemed strange to me.

aurigny72

4th Aug 2019, 08:48

The load factor for June was 46% unless there were any cancelled flights I'm not aware of. There seems to have been a large increase in capacity on GCI-LON this year and the decision to fly GCI-SEN daily seemed strange to me.
I agree that a daily service GCI-SEN is probably to much, especially with the new LHR-GCI service as well. I would have thought 3/4 times weekly on the SEN route would have been enough for the Summer. What is more crazy is that Blue Islands is intending to continue the GCI-SEN throughout the winter at the same daily frequency, unless they change their mind a lot of money will be lost on that and also on the Aurigny GCI- STN service. I do believe that Blue Islands is trying to get Aurigny to drop that route, lets hope they have got deep pockets, time will tell.

asdf1234

4th Aug 2019, 12:27

I agree that a daily service GCI-SEN is probably to much, especially with the new LHR-GCI service as well. I would have thought 3/4 times weekly on the SEN route would have been enough for the Summer. What is more crazy is that Blue Islands is intending to continue the GCI-SEN throughout the winter at the same daily frequency, unless they change their mind a lot of money will be lost on that and also on the Aurigny GCI- STN service. I do believe that Blue Islands is trying to get Aurigny to drop that route, lets hope they have got deep pockets, time will tell.
I think there is definitely a business need for a daily flight however the timings from SEN are not attractive for the business user. I try and avoid Aurigny as much as possible (even flying LGW - JER and then JER - CGI return and finally back to LGW) as I find Aurigny overpriced and unreliable. Blue Islands would need to do a double daily from SEN to dislodge Aurigny.

cobopete

4th Aug 2019, 20:47

Aurigny r not umreliable, they just try to fly all timetabled flights to the advertise destination despite the delays rather than cancel at the drop of hat.

kcockayne

4th Aug 2019, 21:32

The load factor for June was 46% unless there were any cancelled flights I'm not aware of. There seems to have been a large increase in capacity on GCI-LON this year and the decision to fly GCI-SEN daily seemed strange to me.
I have tried, in previous posts, to explain that Channel Island routes are not money spinners. In particular, Guernsey routes are marginal. This load factor & the personal experience of another poster just go to prove this supposition. There has been a large increase in capacity this year (EGLL & EGMC). Together, this adds c120 seats per day. It is generally not possible to fill anywhere near all of these seats. The demand is simply not there ; as is also the case with the LOG Bournemouth service. Consequently, Blue Island are highly unlikely to add a second daily ‘MC flight. There is much complaining in Guernsey at the lack of routes to the island , & the lack of a LCC. Until there is a significant increase in demand (& usage) of existing services & airlines, there can surely be no further increase in services & destinations ; or of a reduction in fares provided by a LCC.

cobopete

5th Aug 2019, 19:48

Well said kcockayne, sums up the situation perfectly.
Pete

aurigny72

5th Aug 2019, 20:03

Jerbourg

6th Aug 2019, 15:33

No nothing, I got the info from an Aurigny insider so seemed genuine.

bmaviscount

19th Aug 2019, 06:57

Take it back the SEN flight was packed last Friday!
Great airport to depart from
Check un lady said it had been popular with a mix of business and leisure

Hermite

19th Aug 2019, 09:45

Jethros indicates that the first new ATR is due this month. Any news of when this may be?

kcockayne

19th Aug 2019, 18:42

Take it back the SEN flight was packed last Friday!
Great airport to depart from
Check un lady said it had been popular with a mix of business and leisure
Pleased to hear that. Let’s hope that they keep it up.

bmaviscount

21st Aug 2019, 06:41

Gurnard

21st Aug 2019, 07:50

why do Aurigny run their inter-island services and Southampton services at the same time as blue islands ; surely this is not sustainable??

Why not a higher frequency Dornier service

Were these routes simply to use G Huet?

Anyone know about loads?
Morning and evening times are the most popular: that's why Aurigny have chosen to serve the route then. "Middle of the day" times tend to have lighter loads.
How long it two airlines can compete like this remains to be seen. It happened before when Jersey European took on KLM UK. They didn't compete for all that long.
Yes, the route has utilized G-HUET, but at times an ATR72 is used.
Loads have been good. I was told this at check-in at SOU a few weeks ago. Some have been full. Very attractive fares have been offered, at £19.99 well below LGW prices.

cobopete

20th Sep 2019, 18:46

With FlyBE reportedly pulling the JER EMA service would it be worth Aurigny making EMA GCI JER a triangular route. I flew GCI EMA 14 Sep ....it was quite full but I don’ think this is usual. Might be worth a try.

Hermite

24th Sep 2019, 14:01

Aurigny seem to be running with one Dornier at the moment. G-LGIS has been off for 3 days but G-OAUR hasn't been out for a few weeks. Any ideas what is happening - are both a/c tech?

Gurnard

24th Sep 2019, 21:33

Both G-OAUR and G-LGIS were in the hangar (along with G-VZON) this afternoon. G-OAUR was last in service on the 6th. Both are undergoing maintenance. To create space G-SAYE was moved outside. (Don't know why they are hanging on to this fairly useless frame.) All Dornier flights were operated by G-ETAC today which meant cancelling services to SOU or running others at different times. Alderney residents are bound to have their own thoughts.

Hermite

24th Sep 2019, 22:31

Thanks for the comments. I have wondered why they acquired G-SAYE in the first place as it is a lower spec a/c than G-LGIS (it has a lower MTOW, hence reduced capacity). It seems to me as well that if they need 2 a/c operational every day to offer the ACI service, then relying on a 31 year old a/c as part of a fleet of 3 is perhaps being a little optimistic. I guess that they should have bought 3 new a/c once they had decided on the move to Dorniers, but perhaps they weren't allowed to do so.

Hermite

6th Oct 2019, 10:22

G-OAUR is still out of service after 1 month. This seems like rather a long time for routine maintenance on a relatively new a/c - I wonder what the problem is. G-LGIS is also out of service for 4 days, so they must be having problems there as well.

kcockayne

6th Oct 2019, 18:38

Coochycool

7th Oct 2019, 07:51

Do they still have any Trislanders in operation? Been a while since I took a look.

Egda

7th Oct 2019, 08:35

No all the Trislanders have gone, more than a year ago now

virginblue

7th Oct 2019, 09:26

From what I gather, the Alderney schedule requires a single ACI-based airframe with 4x daily flights to GCI and 2x daily flights to SOU. Which means that Aurigny has three Dornier 228s to cover a schedule that requires a single airframe. So effectively they have the luxury of having two spares in the hangar? So it should be no surprise that examples are not to be seen for a considerable time. Or am I missing something here?

MDS

7th Oct 2019, 09:36

Do Aurigny operate occasional charters to Spain?

Looked up G-HUET on FR24 and saw it had made the trip GCI-AGP-GCI back in December last year. Return sector was over 3.5 hours! Impressive for an ATR42. In Feb and March of this year an ATR72 also operated down there.

Wasn't sure if these were charters (as hadn't seen these mentioned before) or if they were for other operational reasons.

Gurnard

7th Oct 2019, 09:54

G-HUET as well as all three ATR72s went to Malaga last winter and onward to Las Palmas for maintenance. One of the legs from GCI to AGP and return took pax - a special put on by Aurigny.
As for the Dornier saga, one airframe can do the required flights over the winter months, but the schedule requires two - one based overnight in ACI, the other at GCI. Normally the Guernsey a/c goes to ACI and on to SOU, while the Alderney aircraft begins the day with a trip to GCI. If flight times are adjusted for one a/c to do the lot, starting from ACI, it means a delay for the GCI-ACI first flight of the day and a delay for the morning ACI-SOU sector.
Forgetting G-SAYE (which is a bit of a disaster with its limitations and no longer flies) there should be one spare airframe, not two.

MDS

7th Oct 2019, 09:56

G-HUET as well as all three ATR72s went to Malaga last winter and onward to Las Palmas for maintenance. One of the legs from GCI to AGP and return took pax - a special put on by Aurigny.

Interesting! Thanks for the information.

kcockayne

8th Oct 2019, 22:46

chaps1954

9th Oct 2019, 06:43

Drop Manchester? don`t think so

Gurnard

9th Oct 2019, 08:08

Latest projections for AUR are a £9.7m loss next year - to add to £7m for this year & £4m for last year. The States of Guernsey are attempting to determine what exactly is in its & AUR's best interests to make the airline a "going concern". Meanwhile, the "Runway Extenders" are continuing to push their pet project on the promise of enabling low cost carriers, larger aircraft & lower fares to be offered. Pie in the sky ! Larger aircraft, low cost airlines & lower fares will only materialize as a result of a large increase in demand. With a population of 65,000 people & a declining tourism industry, this will not happen. If the States want AUR to continue to operate, & especially if they want it to be profitable, then the last thing that they should be doing is extending the runway & letting low cost carriers operate to the island. AUR could never compete with Easy Jet etc. AUR could never make a profit in those circumstances. Even if they maintain their monopoly on the Gatwick route AUR will struggle to become profitable. The only way for them to achieve that would be to cut the fleet to three ATR 72s, drop the E195 & drop all their other routes, with the possible exception of Southampton. Discuss .....

Discuss...... Hardly any need as your comments make pretty good sense! Consider how Aurigny's aircraft are utilized. Often an ATR flies for half a day only - two round trips from GCI. Aircraft seem to have considerable leisure time. EasyJet don't keep their aircraft on the ground; they use them all day and into the night! Also, you're right that EasyJet won't be interested in GCI for the simple reason that the island is not a big enough market. Well - on a positive note those new ATR72s will soon be on the way. It will be interesting to see whether their fog-breaking qualities will make the investment really worthwhile. ;)

GCILover

9th Oct 2019, 08:34

I came back from Manchester a couple of weeks ago, and there were only 24 people on it. The time before when I was flying to SOU, I counted 16 people board the Aurigny SOU whilst the Blue Islands one was almost full. Yet, they are blaming everyone else for their losses.
I can see Flybe/Virgin whatever they will be called re-start the MAN at some point to link in to Virgin long haul. Last time Flybe operated the route, the flight was more or less full every day, operating once a day around lunch time. Their licence got revoked as they were accused of cherry picking when they operated the route. Funny how now Aurigny can operate flights to JER from GCI only when they think they can make money, which from what the crew are saying is another route with extremely poor loads.

inOban

9th Oct 2019, 09:19

On the other hand is it not possible that the decline in Guernsey compared with Jersey is due to the absence of low cost access?

Aero Mad

9th Oct 2019, 12:07

Guernsey's population is basically half the size of Jersey's; there is a problem of strategy/utilisation but also a complete political failure to address Aurigny's funding, and a lack of political joined-up thinking in the simultaneous introduction of open skies and the decision to fund a competitor airline to fly a competitor route (Heathrow); although Economic Development say the route was offered to Aurigny but Flybe offered a cheaper and better-timed operation, the end result (if one looks at the CAA stats) is an almost direct leakage of 3-4k passengers per month from LGW to LHR, and the States of Guernsey spending about £66 per passenger (when I last worked it out, including lost revenue on GCI-LGW) to compete with itself. As far as I can see the only way Aurigny would ever balance the competing ends of making money and providing a satisfactory level of service would be in a protected regime with sole operator status on GCI-JER, with a larger market supporting the community service and intense seasonality of the ACI operation, and on GCI-LON as the thickest market in supporting the wider regional operation, which could then be left to open skies. This setup would effectively use the profitable (commercial) part of the operation to support the unprofitable (community service) part, which was the traditional model of Aurigny operation from 1968. However, now that genie is out of the bottle there will in practice probably be little change of squeezing it back in again. In the absence of suitable regulation, the only other way is to derive a suitable cost advantage on the routes - particularly the inter-island ones might work well for electrification in the next 5-10 years - which could destroy the rationale for competitors' ATR/Q400 ops. But that requires investment and foresight which is also presently lacking. Probably only a new generation of politicians and managers would get us there on that - but one just has to hope that the current setup doesn't sap to extinction the political will for Aurigny's existence in its current form.

virginblue

9th Oct 2019, 12:08

I can see Flybe/Virgin whatever they will be called re-start the MAN at some point to link in to Virgin long haul..

How many daily long-haul passengers can an island of 65.000 generate? Realistically, not enough to make a P2P-route worthwhile, given that you need at least two daily flights as otherwise those connecting need to overnight at least once at the transit airport.

kcockayne

9th Oct 2019, 13:03

How many daily long-haul passengers can an island of 65.000 generate? Realistically, not enough to make a P2P-route worthwhile, given that you need at least two daily flights as otherwise those connecting need to overnight at least once at the transit airport.
In reality, VB, that is what a lot of us do - both here in Jersey & in Guernsey. We overnight in Gatwick (usually). In our case, that is even so regardless of the fact that we have 8 daily A319/320s to Gatwick. It is not just due to the lack of good connections, but also to allow for fog disruption in the islands. In fact, I am doing this today - but taking a chance on the weather for my return connection Palma-Gatwick-Jersey.
Aeromad is totally correct in his observations, as are the other contributors. Guernsey people have to be realistic about what they can expect; & the “Runway Extenders” also need to get real. If the runway is extended, at a cost of £10m+, you may get EZY etc. in, you may get bigger aircraft ( I would not argue that there is scope for charters with A320/B737 etc) operating the occasional charter; but what you definitely WILL get in the case of EZY to Gatwick, or RYR to Stansted , is the demise of AUR.

TartinTon

9th Oct 2019, 19:19

Surely you're looking at this the wrong way round? Guernsey should be marketing destination Guernsey, surely? With European holidays becoming more and more expensive there is probably going to be a once in a generation opportunity for destinations like Guernsey to fill their boots as long as they are prepared to invest in the resources/marketing/infrastructure to service an influx of inbound tourism. Part of that will be runways that can take A220/319/320/B737 aircraft. Unfortunately GR have proven themselves not fit for purpose despite some protectionism so let them go and let someone more efficient take over. Lost jobs will quickly be replaced with some imagination from the Guernsey state.

kcockayne

9th Oct 2019, 20:23

Yes, you are correct in what you say, but the reason that the States Of Guernsey bought AUR in the first place was to protect the Gatwick slots. They could decide to sell the airline- if anyone would buy it - or they could close it down. But that would mean that the slots were vulnerable, or lost. There is no guarantee that EZY would protect the slots for them. They would also be writing off over £20m that they have invested in the airline’s losses over the years. They have also guaranteed over £60m which AUR have borrowed to finance the purchase their new ATRs. It would be a very bold decision to pull the plug on AUR, with no surety of a secure Gatwick service from whoever would then provide it.
The other part of what you suggest, although possible, is not as easy as you think. Over the years there has been a loss of many hotel beds. I fear that the remaining bed stock is far from the level required to support the sort of activity that you recommend. Some very important, & complex decisions need to be made. For my part, I think that the States will take the path of least resistance & continue to support AUR financially, fail to extend the runway & generally meander on along the same old path. Why ? Because the Channel Islands are no longer “ money machines “, & cannot throw it around as they did in the past. Nor can they take the risk of spending tens of millions on the airport , losing AUR (because it cannot compete with EZY, for example), & then losing EZY (& the slots) if that airline were to decide that those slots were better value if used on more lucrative routes.

TartinTon

9th Oct 2019, 21:35

There are ways and means of protecting slots by offering out PSO routes and stipulating airports/frequencies. Look at NQY...no-one would have thought a few years ago that they would be operating in and out of LHR but there they are. The airlines losses are growing year on year with nothing on the horizon to save them. Best to let it go having done the required legwork in the mean time to secure services on a risk-shared PSO basis as so many other airports have done. It's not rocket science but it does require some vision and growing a pair from the authorities.

aurigny72

10th Oct 2019, 18:58

Jerbourg

10th Oct 2019, 19:01

HUET is due to leave the fleet by March 2020 according to Jethros.

welkyboy

10th Oct 2019, 19:22

Rumour has it that G- HUET is moving to Loganair shortly and Blue Islands will be training the Logan pilots!

KindaUnstuck

11th Oct 2019, 00:18

Had email from Aurigny today stating that their Summer 2020 flights to Jersey and Southampton are now available to book, also that these routes will be operated by their new ATR-600s. If that is the case has the lease on their ATR-42 HUET expired or will have by then?. They also stated that Bristol, East midlands, Norwich, Manchester and Leeds/Bradford would be available to book next week but no mention of Stansted, is this a oversight i wonder or are they going to chop this route as rumours have suggested a while ago, anyone know?

Don't have any insight but the ATR Gatwick flights have not been loaded yet (only the Embraer ones).Considering Gatwick self-handling has a big gap between the GR605 departure at 11.55 and the GR606 arriving at 15.45ish (can't remember the time off the top of my head) I wonder if Stansted could be replaced by a midday LGW rotation with a bit of shuffling on the ATR services and timings.

aurigny72

11th Oct 2019, 09:25

Don't have any insight but the ATR Gatwick flights have not been loaded yet (only the Embraer ones).Considering Gatwick self-handling has a big gap between the GR605 departure at 11.55 and the GR606 arriving at 15.45ish (can't remember the time off the top of my head) I wonder if Stansted could be replaced by a midday LGW rotation with a bit of shuffling on the ATR services and timings.
I looked at the LGW flights for various dates in May and was a bit surprised to see only the four Embraer flights loaded but also was confused to see that the flight times advertised returning from LGW to GCI were much longer than the flight times for GCI to LGW, i know they are block to block times but even allowing for a busy LGW the four different returning schedules varied from one hour I0 mins to one hour 25 mins?. I would expect the additional ATR flights will be added soon.

Hermite

12th Oct 2019, 11:30

Albert Hall

12th Oct 2019, 12:34

It really all depends on whether the passenger had pre-notified their requirement.

Hermite

12th Oct 2019, 13:08

It really all depends on whether the passenger had pre-notified their requirement.

I'm not sure that you can expect someone to prenotify a requirement for a medical emergency.

KindaUnstuck

12th Oct 2019, 18:34

I was on the GR610 last night and spent most the evening sat by the Customer Services desk in the Guernsey Departure Lounge as public announcements were not that great and updates were not always given, even if it was just a message saying we are still waiting for news etc. Icould hear what the ground staff were saying between themselves and what was being said on their radios. To be fair to the ground staff they didn't know much more than I could work out from what they were saying and flight radar and if anyone asked them they were pretty much telling them everything they knew.

The GR608 was sat fully loaded with with passengers for 3 hours before they were able to leave with the oxygen, pretty much as soon as she left the ground crew were saying the Gr610 would definitely be going at around 9.30 and that although Aurigny had said the Gr611 would operate they weren't so sure as they didn't think it would make it in time.

They were also given 15 minutes to turn the Embraer round in Guernsey which was never going to happen and it took 45 even though we were all lined up and ready to go. From what I understand as soon as we were offloaded in Gatwick at 10.55 they loaded the GR611 and then had to cancel the flight as they were not going to get back in time.

When the pilot did his message onboard he mentioned that 'amazingly there didn't seem to be any oxygen in Gatwick' which is why the Gr608 was also delayed and although the crew were trying to be descreet there was also a 'in the past this wouldn't have happened, we would have had a stand in aircraft ages ago' spoken between them.

Also, I don't know if it had any impact but COBO was down to do last night's Jersey and Southampton services but she had to be swapped out for HUET after the Jersey run due to technical issue and then some 610 passengers were questioning why the Manchester and Southampton aircraft weren't being used once they returned for the night rather than us waiting for the Embraer but to be fair even after a few passengers offloaded themselves to swap to today instead there were still 117 passengers onboard.

I got slapped with an £88 fine as the car hire company stayed open until I got there which as far as I'm concerned is annoying but the main thing is that hopefully the male passenger is ok, others however we're complaining about missed trains and wanting Aurigny to put them up once they got to Gatwick or pay for taxis so no doubt Customer Services will have had a few calls today.

rog747

13th Oct 2019, 05:54

Was this a medical emergency, or a pre-booked OXY requirement?
I cannot get my head round this debacle lol

Why was the ill passenger (or did he just have required Oxygen for his flight LGW-GCI) not offloaded at LGW - ?

Surely if he was not well he should have been offloaded then medical attention should've been sought -
Or if he was just needing OXY for the flight and AUR had failed to supply it then just take him off the flight, and look after him until he can be flown to GCI in due course...

All sounds quite lubricious to cock up the whole operation for hours then actually cancel a flight full of pax. You cannot make it up!

SWBKCB

13th Oct 2019, 06:17

What were the circumstances? Maybe pax became ill en-route and then required oxygen?

Jerbourg

13th Oct 2019, 15:25

There are a few negative comments floating around on Aurigny's facebook page following the late running and cancellation of Gatwick flights yesterday due to a passenger's illness. He required oxygen resulting in the need to replace an oxygen bottle on the Embraer before it could take off. One was shipped in from Guernsey on an ATR, which was itself delayed due to the required paperwork for carrying the bottle (dangerous cargo). Various people are asking why Aurigny weren't better prepared for such a basic situation and also why there wasn't a supply of oxygen bottles in Gatwick. Any thoughts on the operational aspects of this situation?

Aurigny don't seem to have a plan should anything happen to it's aircraft away from GCI, surely there must be a company at LGW that could have supplied a replacement oxygen cylinder without one having to be flown in from GCI? It's the same when an a/c goes tech away from base, more often than not a GCI based engineer is flown out to the stricken aircraft - sometimes in a Dornier rather than on a scheduled service - how much does that cost the taxpayer I wonder - it's time line engineering contracts were signed at their main destinations.

KindaUnstuck

13th Oct 2019, 15:46

What were the circumstances? Maybe pax became ill en-route and then required oxygen?
yes, from what was said to us it was an onboard medical emergency on the way into LGW.

commit aviation

13th Oct 2019, 17:31

Assuming it was a medical emergency and the oxygen bottle was used then it would need to be replaced prior to the next sector. I would expect it is an MEL item in case there was another issue on the next flight.

GCILover

15th Oct 2019, 09:53

Any idea why Aurigny schedule some ridiculous times for some of their flights. Some of the LGW flights are scheduled at 90 mins, with some of the SOU-GCI at 55 mins. I don't think with any amount of taxiing / holding either route would take that amount of time. I can only see it as their way of improving their OTP to make it look better. Some of the flights are getting in 30-40 minutes early on a flight that only takes that long.

virginblue

15th Oct 2019, 10:08

How about some of the following:

- risk-management with regard to serving a very busy one-runway airport (LGW) vs. an idyllic regional airport (SOU)
- better in-time performance
- less risk to pay for passenger rights compensation
- learning from the Ryanair rulebook

Musket90

15th Oct 2019, 18:14

GCILover - The scheduled times are gate to gate not landing and take-off. Don't know the reason for SOU 55min timings but for LGW at peak times (which is for much of the day) you can expect to queue for at least 15 mins at the runway holding point before take-off. Add this to the pushback and taxi time and it could be 30mins plus from pushback to airborne. Arrivals are often slot constrained at origin which could mean 10 - 15 min delay leaving GCI to LGW. Add on a few times around the holding stack before being vectored in sequence for landing and the gate to gate time adds up. Of course the times will differ slightly depending on if it's an ATR or the E190 doing the flight. One of the down sides I'm afraid of maximising capacity on the busiest single runway airport in the world.