Australian Space Agency? Oh No!

[Sunfish]

Australia will create its own space agency in an attempt to cash in on a $420 billion aeronautical industry and create thousands of new jobs.

I think we can see what's coming here... In summary the ASA will ensure that any Australian hopes for a viable space industry are stillborn.

The first thing they will do is make any space based activity illegal without an ASA permit. The lawyers will then take over and follow the CASA template for industrial destruction, all of course at our expense.

Lots of lovely conferences and overseas trips for agency staff and for us, lots of lovely regulations beginning with: "A person must not....".




Australian space agency to employ thousands and tap $420b industry, Government says - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-25/government-to-establish-national-space-agency/8980268)

[CaptainMidnight]

"Always with the negative waves (Moriarty), always with the negative waves..."

[wdew]

Well if they carry on like our Navy and Airforce with dead in the water submarines and ship refuelling mishaps and non attacking attack Tiger choppers there is only one outcome apart from wasted heaps of money by duplicating research done by other countries.

[Ascend Charlie]

"That rocket might work for the USA, Russia, India and North Korea, but we MUST have a home-made design for Australia's unique conditions, and it must be built in Christopher Pyne's electorate in SA, despite the lack of electricity there."

"Oh, and it has to be painted in rainbow colours and 50% of the space agency staff must be female and the other 50% has to be LGBTIPDGW people."

[Dark Knight]

You got it in one AC

[Captain Dart]

And the astronauts will need two spare pairs of glasses, expect a rigorous Pad Check at any time, and hold an ASIC for those lunar landaways.

Having said that, Cape York was mooted as a launch site years ago; not far from the equator, sea on both sides and the prospect of a massive restricted ground area to keep people out and allow wildlife to thrive. But imagine the squeals from the Greenies and the Aboriginal Industry.

[Flying Binghi]

We can expect more distracting thought bubbles like this from a corrupt and incompetent turnBull led government. Humphrey would be proud..:hmm:





.

[aroa]

Cape Launch site...altho twas in the days of our Dear Departed Dictator Bielke-Peterson..was a good idea, all the launch site attributes, but got washed away in a tsunami of 'negative waves'.
Site was at Temple Bay about 3/4 of the the way up the east coast..ideal
Just needed roads, port and airstrip to go with it.
Latest conflab is east Arnhem Land, abt the same latitude, but will need all the same infrastructure.
Those players who have the money to invest in the Space industry should be allowed to just get on with it, for the financial and technological rewards...and ffs keep bureaucrats well away....or as with aviation it will be a red tape nightmare clusterfcuk.

pity Pyne didnt live up the Cape...not only would we have a spaceport but a sub base as well..!!..perhaps.

[tartare]

Jesus - you'd be a cheerful bunch of bastards wouldn't you!
Thread started by Aviation Optimist in Chief Sunfish I note.
Unbelievable `straya gets anything done with attitudes like that.
Look across the ditch and see what a coupla kiwis with no money, a can do approach and enough wick to get LMT interested have been able to accomplish at Mahia!
And I can tell you - the Tangata Whenua can be equally as obstructive as the greenies here.
Maybe it might work.

[buckshot1777]

You got it, tartare. This forum has the same bunch of negative doom and gloom merchants that come out of the woodwork when the opportunity arises.

Back OT.

Christmas Island was considered as a launch site some years back, due to it's near equatorial location.

While it is Australian territory, it lies in Indonesian airspace, has an extensive route structure to the east along with populated islands, so it is not without it's problems.

[Flying Binghi]

Jesus - you'd be a cheerful bunch of bastards wouldn't you!
Thread started by Aviation Optimist in Chief Sunfish I note.
Unbelievable `straya gets anything done with attitudes like that...



Seems some get their how to run a country education from The West Wing. Meanwhile, back on planet earth...

The mess that the corrupt turnBull helped make is causing dairy farmers to install diesel generators so they can get affordable power:

"...The Manns’ electricity costs have more than doubled in five years, from about $200,000 per annum to $500,000.

Due to the high prices, the family will this summer switch to diesel power to run their 116-stand rotary dairy and 14 irrigation centre pivots at Wye in the lower south east of South Australia..."

Some South Australian farmers going fully diesel for electricity « JoNova (http://joannenova.com.au/2017/09/some-south-australian-farmers-switching-to-diesel-to-go-off-grid/)

So Australia's basic infrastructure is falling in a heap and off we go with a space agency............................:hmm:






.

[tartare]

Whine, moan, bleat - oh woe is me.
You guys need to get out in the Sun and be thankful you live in a great country.
Actually, you probably need to do some aviating.
Oh - sorry - CASA's stuffed it all up for you hasn't it.
Sheesh...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWcGUpWnfPM

Look at what your predecessors achieved!
https://vimeo.com/6292613
You should be ashamed of yourselves carryin' on like a bunch of little piggies...
Buckshot - good on ya mate.

[Ascend Charlie]

Hey, we know we live in the greatest spot on the face of this planet, and probably most of the other planets as well, but our bureaucrats are the biggest bunch of phucknuckles ever to walk the corridors of power.

With a bit of Dick Smith in them, we might be able to progress the aviation industry, and with some Gerry Harvey and John Singleton, we could have some outstanding industries. But the greens and the pollies and the self-interest groups are killing everything.

We can't even tell a joke any more without being labelled a sexist, ageist, racist, colourist, meat-eating causer of the end of the world. If we could have sensible people in power, we could be better even than New Zillund. Except in Rugby.

[Pinky the pilot]

Whilst I took Ascend Charlie's posts in the humour (albeit cynical) mode that I suspect he meant them to be, I find that there may be more than a slight amount of truth in them.

Think carefully, fellow Ppruners, and consider just how some sections of the Media try to tell you how and what to think!:hmm:

FWIW, I agree with him. And yes, I have been called a cynical so and so on more than one occasion.

[Guptar]

We really think we are going to have a Space Agency. We can't even get regulations set properly in 25 years and that's for terrestrial craft. Sorry, Australia is falling apart. Thw worst thing for us was our sporting greatness in the 50's, from that, we have developed a superiority complex. We were great once, and we new it. We are not great anymore but we don't yet realize it yet.

[gerry111]

And yes, I have been called a cynical so and so on more than one occasion.

Such horror, Pinky.. That's got to be fake news?

(And I've only known you for a mere 48 years!) :(

[cattletruck]

Silly me, I thought Musk and co are only visiting to try our lamingtons?

Blackholes and money remain the star attractions.

And yes, I have been called a cynical so and so on more than two occasions.

[Kiwiconehead]

https://spaceaustralia.com.au/

[Sunfish]

Tartare: Jesus - you'd be a cheerful bunch of bastards wouldn't you!
Thread started by Aviation Optimist in Chief Sunfish I note.
Unbelievable `straya gets anything done with attitudes like that.
Look across the ditch and see what a coupla kiwis with no money,

Buckshot: This forum has the same bunch of negative doom and gloom merchants that come out of the woodwork when the opportunity arises.


Written by two posters who are either ignorant or perhaps cynical and sarcastic.

Ignorant as in failing to reflect on Australian technical project performance and the unique combination of bureaucratic characteristics that destroys Australias hope of any competitive advantage.

Cynical and sarcastic? Perhaps they are having a lend and I missed it.


Australian technical project performance? Lets start with the Collins class submarine, the Seasprite program and, wait for it, the NBN - which has given us third world internet capbility at great cost. I could probably add the procurement of the F111, the F35, certain ship procurement projects as well. These were all late, over budget and did not necessarilyl produce the desired deliverables. In short the Government does not have an acceptable track record in procuring or managing advanced technology.

Oh sure, there was Jindivik, Malkara, Ikara, the Woomera satellite launch and one or two others but I would argue that they succeeded precisely because they were so far advanced for their time that Government either couldn’t or wouldn’t allow the bureaucracy to capture them. To put that another way, the bureaucrats couldn't get their hands on them.

Do we need a space organisation? We sure do! I have an acquaintance, well respected in the satellite instrument industry, who told me ten years ago that Australia needed to lift its game because the Thirty year era of free access to satellite based services (eg: weather data) was going to come to an end. Australia has developed and flown some really good space instruments, but they have piggy backed on other peoples rockets thanks to the deviousness and cunning of Australian academics.


So now we want a Federal Government space bureaucracy? Isn't the failure of NBN and the home insulation scheme enough? No! We really want to spend, spend, spend!

The first priority of the Space Office is its own survival, not delivering for Australia. Its about delivering for its political masters!

That means:

1) A snazzy logo and mission statement.

2) A regulatory foundation that establishes a stranglehold on any space based activity (including reception of data and control from Australian ground stations)..

3) A budget allocation preferably as a line item.

4) An office block ( complete with logo) in Canberra.

5) The infrastructure to go with items 1 to 4. That means support staff, accountants, HR, executives, etc. They will participate in the daily life of Canberra, starting with the establishment of working committees with CASA,, AsA, ATSB, Treasury, etc. etc.

But what about the mission?? Space stuff for Australia! The first priority, since they know nothing, is to pick the brains of the academics. That means more conferences and meetings as the academics patiently explain the industry to economics graduates who cant even change a tyre, let alone upgrade their phone software.

Out of that around AD2020 will come a space strategic plan.

After that comes procurement, which will take at least five years considering tender construction, RFT's, evaluation, awarding of contracts and thats not even allowing for slowdowns due to elections.

Along the way, there will be very expensive issues to be raised and dealt with, for example;

a) Since launches will be in the tropics, we will need an "indigenous space involvement plan" with its own bureaucracy.

b) The Greens will raise the issue of oxychlorate pollution from solid booster rocket exhaust and a host of other environmental matters.

c) Industry will push the "local content button" potentially doubling the cost of doing anything.

d) Endless political infighting about the locations of infrastructure in marginal electorates.


I could go on.

What would be better you ask?

1) Announce that Australia will purchase space services from the world, including Russia and China.

2) Kill the Space office idea.

3) establish a two person procurement group situated in the basement of the treasury building and reporting to Secretary of Treasury.

4) Establish a working committee of academics and industry to advise the procurement group.

5) Pass an Act to the effect that space activities are exempt from State and Federal law.That means that if Elon Musk wants to anchor a rocket launch or recovery raft somewhere in the gulf he can do so without endless red tape.

6) Stand back and watch the industry thrive.

To put it another way; the best Australian space policy is to keep the bureaucrats hands of it!

[tartare]

I'm definitely not having a lend - or being sarcastic.
Contemptuous would be more accurate... and I'm quite happy to do you slooowwllly.
What I observe are two things.
In life there are the defeatist whingers, the whiners and the complainers.
Then there are the people who just get on and do it - regardless of past supposed failures - perceived future obstacles and the length of the journey.
And they succeed.
Why don't you actually get off your chuff and try and do something about it, rather than just moaning all the time.
Ignorant?
Well... I'm always open to learning.
But on reflection - your suggestion to import aerospace technology from Russia and China for example appears a little naive and the product of about the same amount of thinking as the time it took for you to type it.
For example are you talking specifically developing an indigenous launch capability to geosynchronous orbit?
If so, what's the geopolitical situation in our region at the moment and ove the long term, how might it change?
Would your Russian and Chinese technology just arrive here - nicely packaged with no technicians, advisors, or, for example, accompanying bureaucrats who weren't really bureaucrats at all?
How might the ADF feel about having them in our backyard?
Owning one of our ports has caused enough of a ruckus.
What would happen if relationships with China and Russia deteriorated rapidly over, oh I don't know, some other issue that also involves rockets?
Or do you see this as some sort of rosy detente to embrace our Chinese and Russian friends to promote harmony through hardware sharing in a mutual space launch industry?
Have you noticed that while many countries contribute astronauts to each others programs - technology transfer is much more limited and difficult to achieve between non-aligned nations, particularly when it comes to launch technology.
Witness what's happened with the RD-180 in the US.
Want to share a little more detail?
Are you suggesting we shoot off Zenits or Long Marches from the tropical north Comrade? (Noting that's what Joh wanted to do, but the reasons for the failure of the Temple Bay proposal are a little more complex).
May be if you'd called out Ariane, given we seem to like French defence products? OK - possibly.
Or you're suggesting more limited technology transfer - avionics, payloads, engineering knowhow, supporting technology?
This at a time when the ASD won't even let Huawei connect to the NBN, and is gravely worried about China's increasing reach throughout the South Western Pacific's telecommunications infrastructure.
If you'd said follow the kiwi model and come up with incremental small scale, locally developed innovations that were clever enough to get backing from the world's largest defence contractor - who incidentally - has been operating in Australia virtually joined at the hip for the last few decades, then I might have taken you a little more seriously.
There's some great stuff going on here already - like the local cubesat manufacturers who think they may be able to deliver domestically developed IMINT capability to the ADF within a few years.
You can continue to complain friend, but personally - I don't take no for an answer and never have.
For example, this coming Wednesday, I'm meeting the Director of Strategy and his Policy Advisor from the Leader's Office of a major political party, one on one, to start to get major change underway in our sector.
What are you and your mates here doing in yours?
Bleating from the sidelines - as usual.
Because it's easier to do and requires less effort.
Off to get a pretentious North Shore latte and a smashed avo sandwich now... but welcoming the continuation of this little debate...

[Flying Binghi]

Hmmm... not long ago there were some chaps in Toowoomba that built an international airport... obviously it were an initiative of the government department of Australian Airport Development..:hmm:





.

[tartare]

Yep - met the Wagners?
Lawyer mate of mine I had lunch with last week has - and by all accounts they don't whinge or take no for an answer either - just get on and do it.

[Sunfish]

Tartare, so I see you already have your interests to protect...

....And you bleat about the need for a local industry because of "security" concerns.

You call me a "whiner and complainer."

When it comes to the demonstrated failure of Australian Government bureaucracy to deliver any technology based project on time, on budget and with all deliverables attached, I am indeed a "whiner and complainer" because the Australian bureaucracy has demonstrably failed to deliver time and time again and it has cost taxpayers billions of dollars.

I am not being a defeatist whinger when I say that you and your ilk do not deserve another chance to squander billions of taxpayer dollars on another technological project that has zero chance of success with you and your bureaucratic mates running it.

As for "security" even the Americans are using Russian launch vehicles at the moment, Spacex and Dragon are on the point of offering launch services so there is no need to develop indigenous rocket systems at simply massive costs and certainly not using a bureaucratic model.

Yes, we need a space policy - buy commercial services from the cheapest source using a market based model. Not, I repeat not, using the failed bureaucratic model that gave us the NBN and Seasprite.

To put that another way, you are very enthusiastic about a space policy - provided the poor taxpayer is paying for it!

As for pissing competitions, I've worked in airlines, aerospace, government and technology commercialisation and I know what it costs to roll your own. Buy stuff and services off the shelf! The last thing we need is an Australian space industry controlled by Canberra and paid for by tax dollars.

[tartare]

Just back from visiting my sinister bureaucratic friends. :E
Who said anything about paid for by taxpayer dollars my ironically handled matey?
Or ignoring COTS technologies?
My point is be careful whose shelf you buy off.
Sorry about the pissing competition but it's a fact.
You still haven't told me what you're doing to change what you complain so vociferously about, aside from whining and making up your mind before anything's happened.
Maybe a light regulatory touch Federal organisation to boost investment, encourage technology transfer and provide a small degree of industry assistance would be a good thing?
Ever considered that?
Honestly - fish in a barrel...!

[extralite]

Just back from visiting my sinister bureaucratic friends. :E
Who said anything about paid for by taxpayer dollars my ironically handled matey?
Or ignoring COTS technologies?
My point is be careful whose shelf you buy off.
Sorry about the pissing competition but it's a fact.
You still haven't told me what you're doing to change what you complain so vociferously about, aside from whining and making up your mind before anything's happened.
Maybe a light regulatory touch Federal organisation to boost investment, encourage technology transfer and provide a small degree of industry assistance would be a good thing?
Ever considered that?
Honestly - fish in a barrel...!

That would be a good thing. I think the point people are making is that this is unlikely what will happen based on Canberra's track record. Mirrors my experience too unfortunately which has been quite a bit. Any dealing with Canberra has always led to tears as if they are making it their objective to stuff things up. Thats across muliple departments ive dealt with. I am sure there are many decent peolple in canberra but it's a culture of obstruction and witch hunts to prove power and committees and inability to make good decisions is what I am guessing is getting people so frustrated.

[Sunfish]

Tartare: Maybe a light regulatory touch Federal organisation to boost investment, encourage technology transfer and provide a small degree of industry assistance would be a good thing?
Ever considered that?

Yes, I've considered that and discarded it. What you are suggesting is that the Federal Government only interfere "a little bit", sounds reasonable, but it isn't. It's like being a little bit pregnant.

Once the space bureaucracy is allowed to be born, its first imperative is to survive and grow.


"boost investment"? The last time the government dabbled in encouraging private sector high technology investment I had to unwind $60 million in toxic tax avoidance R & D syndicates.


"Encourage technology transfer and provide a small degree of industry assistance"? This inevitably involves picking winners and losers and public servants are notoriously at least as bad as the private sector in doing that.

Furthermore, the process distorts the industry and encourages mediocrity because the really "out there' projects are not funded because they are either unfashionable or politically incorrect.

For example lets say we have two Cubesat projects and we can fund only one. The first Cubesat project maps endangered species habitat in the tropics, the second maps possible undersea oil deposits. Guess which one gets funded?

Furthermore, the local space industry, if you can call it that, is internationally focussed and internationally competitive by definition. Once we add an Australian dimension, via a Canberra space office, we will lose that focus and that alone will harm the industry.

Tartare, don't you understand? "Utopia" and "Yes Minister' are accurate depictions of the way Canberra works. Australia would be better off if the money earmarked for a space office was spent on booze and prostitutes rather than industry "assistance'

[tartare]

You had to unwind $60m on toxic tax avoidance????
I find that hard to believe.
The tenor of your posts on this topic and many others, sound much more like a disgruntled old school Qantas union organiser - than some sort of power broking man of influence.
Are you on any national industry forums?
A trusted advisor of any MPs or Ministers?
Actually involved in getting anything done?
Yes we all watch and laugh at Untopia.
But do you actually even know your way around Canberra?
I doubt it.
I note you say you used to work in the fields you claim to.
That's probably a good thing.
With your attitude - we're all better off with you on the sidelines - while the rest of us get on with it.
Keep bleating to an empty gallery mate... you don't fool me.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

I'm meeting the Director of Strategy and his Policy Advisor from the Leader's Office of a major political party, one on one, to start to get major change underway in our sector.
They're bureaucrats. It's their job to meet with people like you. It's not to actually do anything. You'll walk out of the meeting high-fiving yourself, they'll just be checking their calendars to see who the next lobbyist they have to listen to is.

[aroa]

Easy as..' shooting fish in a barrel..' gets a mention... yep exactly ..!
Bureaucrats and politicians can waste taxpayers money easier than that !!
And without tangible results either.

[cattletruck]

The problem with Canberra is that they are simply the wrong people for this job and should stick with postal surveys for whatever...

Many of these departments put value in silly positions like "Director of Advertising" when advertising is not their core business. This is often the corporate solution to covering up their lack of subject matter expertise on their own brief. But can you blame them though as most of them were never interested in the final frontier but rather more interested in their pot plants getting enough water at home.

[Flying Binghi]

Just started looking at the Utopia nation building series. Sorta funny. Top of the Hillside Primary School ideas list is space, next idea is a bridge to Tasmania.....





.

[Sunfish]

Tartare: You had to unwind $60m on toxic tax avoidance????
I find that hard to believe.
The tenor of your posts on this topic and many others, sound much more like a disgruntled old school Qantas union organiser - than some sort of power broking man of influence.
Are you on any national industry forums?
A trusted advisor of any MPs or Ministers?
Actually involved in getting anything done?
Yes we all watch and laugh at Untopia.
But do you actually even know your way around Canberra?
I doubt it.
I note you say you used to work in the fields you claim to.
That's probably a good thing.
With your attitude - we're all better off with you on the sidelines - while the rest of us get on with it.
Keep bleating to an empty gallery mate... you don't fool me.

Tartare, I detect that you have swelled head syndrome. The cure is a draft of disappointment and a cynicism injection. To be fair, I was once like that too, but I'm old and retired now.

To address your points:

National Forums? Trusted advisor to MP's and Ministers? Been there, done that in the field of innovation and technology commercialisation from about 1994 - 2006. I was one of a small invited group that was repeatedly consulted in the development of the Howard Governments innovation agenda a year before the set piece conference and announcement. Industry associations? I built one from scratch for the Victorian Government.

I thus know what it is like to have public servants fawning on you and writing down your every word as if it was one of the ten commandments. Ministers and MP's? I have been an acquaintance of a few, now mostly dead. On nodding terms with Fraser and Peacock. Worked for two state government Ministers.

Lesson for you: Do not for a minute think that the public servants, advisors, Ministers, etc. have the slightest interest in you and your ideas. They don't - except so far as you can help advance their careers. The clown who professes to you today how fascinated they are by your descriptive and witty exposition on space policy will tomorrow say the same thing to a manufacturer of marine anchor winches. That is the nature of the political beast. They do this to guys like you all the time. Did you get promised a seat on an Advisory Board yet?

Do not let your head swell any more then it already obviously has. The politicians and public servants will jettison you for the next big thing in a heartbeat when they are done with you.

Know my way around Canberra? Of course - when I worked. Old parliament house with Michelle Grattan chain smoking in her tiny office in the attic. "grey sponge" (Russell Offices to you), Department of industry or whatever it was called then. The High Court Cafe had the best and cheapest food with a great view (now sadly closed to the public - terrorism). But most importantly, I knew who to ring if I needed something.

Lesson for you: If you are not a public servant you are still on the outer.

$60 million in toxic tax avoidance?

Yes. I only had 6 X $10 million R&D tax concession syndicates to wind up. Me. Personally. I think I may have contracted PTSD from dealing with Macquarie and BT. I say "only" because there were over 100 of these toxic tax avoidance schemes across Australias Universities based on a perversion of the 150% R&D tax rebate. I can explain how they worked if you want. They were not only financially toxic to the taxpayer, but they produced almost no worthwhile R&D either.


Variations of the same schemes are obviously still around today:

Millions rorted from government R&D scheme (http://www.smh.com.au/national/investigations/millions-rorted-from-government-rd-scheme-20170703-gx3b79.html)


Do I want to "get things done"? Not really. Why am I so 'negative'? Experience.

What I would like to do is save you and your friends from a wild goose chase.

[tartare]

Thank you for the warning.
And for adding some interesting detail; but you make an assumption that I hear often.
You make the statement that politicians are only interested in you if you can help advance their careers?
It’s actually much more subtle than that, although one happens to be a corollary of the other - but confuse the two and you run the risk of making many tactical government relations mistakes.
What they’re interested in - is votes.
So - when you rock up from the Society of Aviation Engineers, they take a good look at how many votes you command.
None?
When you walk out the door, high fiving your mates, after it slams you’re nicknamed No Votes - and suddenly it gets kinda hard to get time in diaries in future.
On the contrary however, are organisations that command large voting blocs, especially those that are very outspoken and have a large media share of voice.
When they visit - advisers - and politicians very much do sit up and take notice.
Sphincters tighten.
How much damage can you do them?
Are you likely to be a treacherous little **** and run down the corridor to the Oppos or anyone else and conspire to make trouble?
How might the Oppos play and respond to this?
Are there votes in what you’re proposing? How much political capital will it cost them and where?
Where are they in the cycle?
Conversely - they will also calculate if a sector is so on the nose to the point that they can take you on regardless of power and influence - witness the banks getting slapped around recently. Nows there’s a bunch of muppets who thought they could get away with anything.
Surprisingly for some - the left are ten times more vindictive than the right, and believe me, they will remember when you first visited - and also in minute detail, if and when you crossed them.
Now - am I a lobbyist?
No.
Fat-headed? Matter of opinion, and you’re entitled to yours. But here are the facts - Again if you want to see it as a pissing contest, up to you.
I’m actually directly employed by a large, politically astute organisation that represents nearly 30,000 highly paid professionals across Australia and New Zealand. It’s members are regularly covered in national media, and are often highly critical of the Government. We’re wealthy and command large voting blocs in Australia and New Zealand, and enjoy high levels of trust as an occupation across both communities. Our members are seen by the public as experts in their field.
In 2013 - 14 expenditure in my overall broader sector totalled $155 billion, that’s billion with a B.
It is a byzantinely complex political maze of a field to work in; accurately encapsulating and representing the views of different factions within my own organisation alone is tricky enough.
Sure - we can all drop names like you dropped Gratts, and a few Ministers you were on nodding terms with a decade ago. I deal in currency, and enjoy working with Federally influential factional warlords (I love that term) like N.C. and M.P. (if you know your politics you’ll have an idea of who I’m talking about. They pull the real strings). A current influential Senator acted as an advisor to us two year ago.
I’ve worked in the media in three countries, and my wife is currently a working broadcaster. We don’t just count current broadcasters and print journos as contacts - they’re personal acquaintances. Like you, I’ve worked in aerospace, specifically airlines, and like you I’m a pilot.
In recent years, I was fascinated to be privvy to direct conversations with a very senior gentleman know who I’ll name by initials M.P. , to help very rapidly solve a hastily made major Federal public policy commitment. Done pretty much on a handshake, and we had 14 people on an Albert within a week to start sorting it out.
I can’t really say much more about that little project, but the resulting Federal `initiatives’ became one of the most controversial of the last three administrations and may actually result in a Royal Commission one day.
I’ve attended several Senate estimates - and sat a row or two behind the poor saps who had to answer the questions - having helped them prepare.
A lot of my dealings are actually with the senior bureaucrats rather than the politicians.
You’ve dealt with Macbank and BT? Well then we do have something in common. My first encounter with those execrable little industrial scale real estate salesmen was closing a $500 million deal in 2011. I utterly despise them and would regulate the investment banking sector into next week if I ever had the chance.
You’d walk past me in the street and never know me - and that’s actually the way I like it.
So - with respect - you’re not saving me or my friends from anything we don’t already understand very well indeed.
What I do really dislike however is negativity founded on a somewhat shaky premise.I still think an ARSE or ASA or whatever they want to call a Space Agency will be a good thing.
It’ll probably have a pretty small budget, and be little more than an industry booster - and that can’t hurt.
Personally, I’m happy to see them give it a shot.

[thorn bird]

Jeez, this Tartare bloke sounds like a right Tartare....

Given the willy waving between him and Sunny I sort of have to wonder
why this obviously superior person is messing about conferring his vast knowledge and wisdom on a bunch of amateur aviators who are very unlikely to have the wherewithal to do much more than dream a dream, or watch star wars movies.
Tartare old mate, as a kid "Biggles" was my hero, man I so wanted to be him.
Guess your the modern equivalent, except old age has conferred some wisdom. I know an imagined ten inches is really five in the willy waving competition.

[Lead Balloon]

The test is always the extent of personal skin in the game.

So, tartare, how many of your own dollars are at risk on this project?

My olfactory sense may be discombobulated because of the onset of the hay fever season, but I'm getting the whiff of an ex-ADF, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, hot-shot who's been poached by one of the gun-runners or tech-selling multi-national snake oil sales companies who have a very long and successful history of separating Australian taxpayer patsies from their hard-earned.

Who pays your salary, tartare?

[Sunfish]

then go for it Tartare, you have been warned.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

I'm hazarding a guess at the AMA. No one else knows how to spend the public's money like the medical profession (155 billion - with a B)

[Flying Binghi]

Wonder what One Nation thinks of our 'Utopia' space program...

"...But of most concern to Ms Palaszczuk is One Nation's primary vote figure of 18.1 per cent..."

Palaszczuk warning on One Nation gains (http://www.skynews.com.au/news/politics/state/2017/10/02/palaszczuk-warning-on-one-nation-gains.html)





.

[Sunfish]

Traffic: I'm hazarding a guess at the AMA. No one else knows how to spend the public's money like the medical profession (155 billion - with a B)

I think I can guess. Given his employment, his attitude is understandable.

Unfortunately prior Australian experience of Government instigated technology programs is that they are a disaster for the Australian economy. The latest being the NBN.

[tartare]

Sorry Lead - do have the white shirt, blue trousers and shiny black shoes.
But what hair is left is grey, so not young - and not ADF or any other defence force (although I do admire those that fly understandably) - and you would have found me somewhere in the crowd with my lad at the ADFA open day recently.
Willy waving - whatever guys. Just a few stories from the sharp end.
I could tell you some real jaw droppers, but clearly I'll just piss you all off.
Nope - don't regard you all as poor little aviators at all... I'm one of you... another oik going to work among the crowds in Sydney.
Just don't like complainers - that's all.

[Sunfish]

I am complaining because a Government Space office program is guaranteed to fail and produce a third world outcome.

My positive suggestion, some posts ago, was to keep Government right out of it and let the private sector do it.

[Flying Binghi]

I always thought Oz were involved in the space programme. What are those big dish radio thingys they used for the moon landings if not part of the space programme.

Rob Sitch will likely put it in season four of Utopia... a space agency thought bubble to distract attention from a floundering corrupt turnBull government..:hmm:






.

[Lookleft]

What does a third world space agency look like?

[Flying Binghi]

What does a third world space agency look like?

Perhaps reference North Korea.





.

[Lookleft]

NK with its rockets seems to be successful from all accounts.

[Flying Binghi]

NK with its rockets seems to be successful from all accounts.

Well, the Oz Greens, and Dick Smith, want a major world population reduction so there may be more to the space agency proposal then meets the eye..;)






.

[Pinky the pilot]

from a floundering corrupt turnBull government..

No argument, but would a Shorten Government be any different/better/whatever..???:confused:

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

What does a third world space agency look like?

Like this:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03144/GSLV-Mark-3-india-_3144184b.jpg

[Sunfish]

The Greens will shut your space program down if it uses solid rocket boosters. Perchlorate pollution of our precious bodily fluids.

Perchlorate, the explosive main ingredient of rocket and missile fuel, contaminates drinking water supplies, groundwater or soil in hundreds of locations in at least 43 states, according to Environmental Working Group’s updated analysis of government data. EWG’s analysis of the latest scientific studies, which show harmful health effects from minute doses, argues that a national standard for perchlorate in drinking water should be no higher than one-tenth the level the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency currrently recommends as safe.

Perchlorate is a powerful thyroid toxin that can affect the thyroid’s ability to take up the essential nutrient iodide and make thyroid hormones. Small disruptions in thyroid hormone levels during pregnancy can cause lowered IQ and larger disruptions cause mental retardation, loss of hearing and speech, or deficits in motor skills for infants and children.


Perchlorate is used in fireworks, safety flares, matches and car air bags, but 90 percent of it goes into solid rocket fuel for military missiles and the NASA space shuttle.

Rocket Fuel in Drinking Water: Perchlorate Pollution Spreading Nationwide | EWG (http://www.ewg.org/research/rocket-fuel-drinking-water/rocket-fuel-drinking-water-perchlorate-pollution-spreading#.WdP95Bdx0Vk)

If we want a space program, simply buy the launch from Spacex and the payload from either Airbus or Boeing. One simple monthly cheque and no Canberra money wasting bull****.

[thorn bird]

I wouldn't be getting my knickers in a knot Sunny, the chances of a "Space" Industry in Australia are somewhere between None and Bucklies.

By the time the "Civil Aviation Space Authority" has completed their Part 61 for space flight standards, along with the attended MOS, in about thirty years time, we would run out of enough trees to, as Clinton so elegantly puts it, squash to write them on, besides by the time the greenies get through with it we'd be trying to launch with a giant catapult, solar powered of course.

[Flying Binghi]

No argument, but would a Shorten Government be any different/better/whatever..???:confused:

The odds are high we is getting a labor government no matter what i think. Things will get worse before they get better. The plus side is players like One Nation will get a boost. Lets just hope One Nation has a viable 'nation' to work with when they have the numbers.





.