Norwich-2

[maxed-out]

Good evening,

Does anyone know how long the Loganair Dorniers are going to be based in Norwich? Are there any replacements planned (eg SAAB2000's) if they go or will the base be closed?

Thank you.

[NickBarnes]

With them starting Jersey next summer, plus extra service to EDI, I'd imagine they wont be leaving NWI any time soon but would likely replace perhaps more like for like in terms of size with the Saab 340

[maxed-out]

Thanks Nick. Yes I agree the 2000 is probably too big for the current loads.

[NickBarnes]

no problem, they are certainly looking busy next summer from NWI with the 4x Jersey and Saturday Edinburgh added, but Yeh something between 30-34 seats seems most sensible

[rolladyce]

Nick,
Interesting spot but it may be that given some of the NWI-EDI block-times have increased it switches to a Saab 340 instead of Dornier. That would allow the EDI gap to service a KOI / LSI / SYY rotation before returning to NWI, also allowing EDI tail swap.
Not sure there is 4 x rotations NWI-EDI, just some variable schedules to align more to demand it would appear. Sensible scheduling.

[ara01jbb]

The new Masterplan for the airport has been published, and comments are invited until 17 August 2017 via this page (https://www.norwichairport.co.uk/masterplan/).

There are no major surprises, other than the anticipated improvements to taxiways, a larger apron with more stands, and using the NDR to open land for "a 100-acre business park for aviation and non-aviation companies", i.e. another business park.

The EDP continues to get excited (http://www.edp24.co.uk/business/revealed-norwich-airport-s-30-year-vision-to-treble-passenger-numbers-and-forge-worldwide-links-1-5093958) about possible new routes to Dublin and Paris.

[MDS]

I'm curious where this pathetic ADF "Airport Development Fund" actually goes.

In the past decade, the only development that has occurred is that NWI now serves less destinations than before.

Not sure why anyone is excited about NWI-DUB or NWI-CDG.. these have been tried and axed already.

Maybe if they decided to stop extorting £10 from every departing passenger, they'd have a chance at attracting (or maintaining) more service.

[tommynwi]

Nice to see the return of thomas cook next summer operating weekly flights to dalaman.
Nwi-dlm 17:05-23:00
Dlm-nwi 13:45-15:50

[tommynwi]

Loganair are adding 2 new seasonal routes to Inverness and Isle of Man for summer 2018. Isle of Man flights operating twice weekly (fri+sun)for 3 weeks during TT races and Inverness flight operating twice weekly (mon+fri) between June 29 and September 3. Also a Saturday flight to Jersey being added so now a total of 6 weekly flights to Jersey for summer 18.

[NickBarnes]

Excellent news Tommy, I'm sure they will be well supported.

[Mike Flynn]

It will be interesting to see what the load factors are. Eastern are facing a major challenge as the oil industry declines.

These are little more than short term flights to places with limited demand.

[sparkie320]

Umm intreasting
but when will it happen who knows

Over priced food in the terminal
£10 tax
Out dates terminal facilitates as well
and how will the runway be extended or when
a lot of work there and not sure what can be done to make this a better airport
would be nice to have more airlines serve this airport

time will tell

[Planespeaking]

Yes but apart from that you are really upbeat!

[Mike Flynn]

Norwich is one of the worst airports for customer service in Europe. It only scores 3/10 on Skytrax which is lower than Kabul in Afghanistan.

Lagos in Nigeria also scores 3/10.

It appears their rating and customer comments mean nothing to the management.

Blackpool also tried a £10 'development' fee which resulted in Ryanair pulling out and the airport now has no scheduled traffic.

Newquay has ditched theirs leaving just Teeside at £6.00 and Norwich extorting a tenner.

Talking of Teeside it appears the average daily passenger traffic from Norwich is five which raises the question is it worth it?

[SWBKCB]

Talking of Teeside

How about talking about Teesside? :ok:

[Mike Flynn]

I mentioned Teeside because both airports are grim and both are the only ones charging so called development fees.

However you measure it the average daily load from Norwich to Teeside is still five passengers. That will not cover the landing fee and handling.

Norwich is stuck with only having an ILS on runway 27. The 09 approach has an NDB with a decision height of 500ft. The result is anytime they have an easterly wind with fog the airport cannot be used.

They can't even be bothered to paint the steel frame supporting the engrance canopy where the rust stains are showing through.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/polopoly_fs/1.5093954!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_630/image.jpg

So much for the airport development fee.

[MerchantVenturer]

Norwich is in good company then because a random glance through Skytrax shows these scores for some other UK airports:

2/10 East Midlands, Leeds-Bradford, Stansted

3/10 Aberdeen, Belfast Int, Birmingham, Bristol, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Liverpool, Manchester

[gilesdavies]

Just been nosey and noticed the Norwich thread thought would throw in my pennies worth of thought...

Usually airports where passengers have to part with cash for services that are free elsewhere, usually leaves a bad taste in their mouths. Exactly the same at Luton where drop off fees are now applied, and gets a 1-2 star rating in SkyTrax year upon year, with the charge being the main moaning point.

It is interesting how Regional and City Airport's the operators on Norwich are happy to charge the Developement fee there, but not at any of their other portfolio of airports, which still see regular services, like Derry, Exeter and Bournemouth. Especially when airports like Bournemouth and Exeter have similar passenger numbers.

Norwich is quite a maintenance heavy airport, and would imagine there is a fair amount of revenue from that.

I like how the Development fee is not chargeable for Business Class or the upper tier frequent flyer members. A frequent flyer could buy the cheapest ticket, but still get the fee waived!

Has there been much in the way of improvements to the airport in recent years with this £10 fee being introduced, for example improved facilities?

[AirportPlanner1]

However you measure it the average daily load from Norwich to Teeside is still five passengers. That will not cover the landing fee and handling.

Except the average daily load isn't five, is it? It's five, plus however many are travelling to Aberdeen. If you want to have a moan get facts right.

[Mike Flynn]

I was refering to those from Norwich dropped at Teeside.

[AirportPlanner1]

That's not Norwich's problem, is it? Besides which, people join the aircraft between DTVA and Aberdeen.

[Mike Flynn]

Just been nosey and noticed the Norwich thread thought would throw in my pennies worth of thought...

Usually airports where passengers have to part with cash for services that are free elsewhere, usually leaves a bad taste in their mouths. Exactly the same at Luton where drop off fees are now applied, and gets a 1-2 star rating in SkyTrax year upon year, with the charge being the main moaning point.

It is interesting how Regional and City Airport's the operators on Norwich are happy to charge the Developement fee there, but not at any of their other portfolio of airports, which still see regular services, like Derry, Exeter and Bournemouth. Especially when airports like Bournemouth and Exeter have similar passenger numbers.

Norwich is quite a maintenance heavy airport, and would imagine there is a fair amount of revenue from that.

I like how the Development fee is not chargeable for Business Class or the upper tier frequent flyer members. A frequent flyer could buy the cheapest ticket, but still get the fee waived!

Has there been much in the way of improvements to the airport in recent years with this £10 fee being introduced, for example improved facilities?

In a word no.

Take a look at the rust on the supports over the entrance canopy in my previous picture. The security staff are so bored they treat every passenger with the full Stasi inspection.

As a pilot I used it years ago when it was council owned and a pleasure to visit.

Flying in there in a private helicopter is a waste of time not to mention the hassle.Easier to use nearby Sprowston Manor hotel where you get a VIP service.

The same applies to private fixed wing use so a GA airport best avoided.

I think the owners see the value in maintenance traffic, although with short term contracts this can be fickle, and the opportunity to exploit the area near the new ring road for a 100 acre business park.

The passenger numbers are never going to increase much beyond where they are and indeed a substantial amount of the movements are North Sea helicopters.

It is nigh on impossible to increase the runway length and a low cost high volume operator such as Ryanair is never going to arrive to boost the traffic.

In short it is a local airport mostly supported by offshore oil workers who can afford to pay the extortionate KLM fares to AMS.

[ara01jbb]

In short it is a local airport mostly supported by offshore oil workers who can afford to pay the extortionate KLM fares to AMS.

I'm a bit bored of complaints about "extortionate fares to AMS." Very few KLM passengers at NWI are O&D. Most are connecting in Schiphol.

In 5 years of using the airport, I've found NWI-AMS to the USA, Asia and Russia is usually never more than £50-150 more expensive than flying from LHR. I gladly pay that to avoid the A11 and M25, or Greater Anglia and the tube.

Even with an improved runway, Norwich doesn't have the population to support FR or U2. If you want low fares, then drive to Stansted, pay to park and walk a mile and a half through the shops to catch your flight. Enough folk are patronising KLM to keep the operation viable.

[NickBarnes]

Very well put

[Mike Flynn]

I suspect you may be once a year holiday makers.

The Eastern Daily Press has a story today promoting a few charter flights next year.

The comments below are reaction and are typical of comments every time the airport appears in the paper.

This is all very well for Norwich Airport but what about the long suffering clients who regularly use the scheduled flights to Aberdeen, Manchester, Edinburgh that are delayed or cancelled regularly. Norwich Airport should really sort the carriers out first to make them more reliable. Right now these flights are unreliable so I'm forced to send my employees to other airports just to guarantee they make it to their destinations>
And why is the electronics for taking off/landing in fog not there. Norwich International? I don't think so!!

Many years ago I would use Norwich all the time. Then a combination of inflated parking charges and the cost of flights made it a no brainer to fly from Stanstead. Also, the drive to Stanstead is consistently 75 minutes whereas Norwich varies so much depending on the traffic and roadworks. Sometimes the drive to Norwich has been 45 minutes but it has also taken as long as 2 1/4 hours. That day I nearly missed my flight and had to take my own bags to the plane. These days people vote with their feet and rarely go back.


I don't think this is much use to someone who wants just a flight. They look like 'package holiday' flights to me , like Thompson used to be. I like to deal directly with any hotel I stay at & then book my flights to suit. I use London City Airport - 2 x Adults return to Palma de Mallorca with BA £200 using Tier points from a BA Amex card. Monarch wanted £1600 for the same journey from Norwich - obviously not interested in selling flights only. These look the same.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/business/norwich-airport-super-break-iceland-portugal-italy-northern-lights-1-5325382

[ara01jbb]

I suspect you may be once a year holiday makers.

We are indeed once a year holidaymakers.

But for business, in the last 18 months, between us we've clocked up 30+ flights in Y to the USA, Canada, Russia, Czech Rep., Singapore, China, Hong Kong, Korea, Japan, Vietnam and Malaysia. All with KLM from NWI.

(That's why we only take one holiday a year :ok: )

[Mike Flynn]

Well as you no doubt have gathered I live in SE Asia and in the last week have shuttled between Hong Kong,Macau,Bangkok and KL on Air Asia and Jetstar.

The most expensive flight was 2 hours 50 minutes Macau to Don Muang at £60 in a brand new Airbus. Compare that to the rip off fees from Norwich to AMS which is just 50 minutes or indeed Aberdeen.

Flying in this part of the world is a joy with clean modern airports.Even the little Savannakhet terminal in Laos is now better than Norwich.

I have not been in to EGSH for many years but follow the news enough to see nothing has changed. Memories of delays at Schipol and if there was North Sea fog no chance of arriving back in Norfolk. It is what it is. A shed with a cafe and a few local services.

It was at its best back in the early 90's when run by the council.

A lick of paint and some staff training would not go amiss.

As for KLM and their old staff and fleet to match...give me Eva,China Airlines, Singapore or Thai any day.

[Wycombe]

As for KLM and their old staff and fleet to match

New Embraers at NWI (and every other UK airfield that used to get the City Hopper Fokkers) for a few months now.

[NickBarnes]

Well least this is the most active the Norwich thread has been in a while.

[southside bobby]

ara...... & NickBarnes..
It does not make your defence of "facilities & service" at NWI the more credible I`m afraid with stereotype comments regarding STN either.

[SWBKCB]

Is this thread the first time Norwich has ever been compared to Macau? :ok:

[NickBarnes]

ara...... & NickBarnes..
It does not make your defence of "facilities & service" at NWI the more credible I`m afraid with stereotype comments regarding STN either.

Not a lot goes on at NWI, only time things comes up is about the development fee, or staff or the price of tickets, but many people still use the airport despite this. Would love more positive things, but definitely a new positive is the new superbreak services to various places in Europe which is great to see

[NickBarnes]

Is this thread the first time Norwich has ever been compared to Macau? :ok:

Most certainly is ;)

[Albert Hall]

Have flown out of both NWI and STN once each in the last 12 months. Give me Norwich and I'll pay the extra £10 any day. Compact, avoids the horrendous experience of car park to airport plus check-in and security at STN, and did the job just fine. I'd give Stansted a wide berth for years to come. Regional airports have plenty of life left in them yet, I'd say.

[Mike Flynn]

Perhaps some you fans of Norwich can explain why a round trip to AMS costs £300.

It is only an hour away but twice the price of Norwich to Aberdeen.

[canberra97]

Jay Sata

You have certainly livened up what is usually a very quite Norwich forum with your consistent rants, it's quite irrelevant really and what is your fascination with Norwich I don't see you posting elsewhere!

[Mike Flynn]

There is a big difference between rants and telling the truth.

If you read my previous posts you will see I used it a lot decades ago as both a passenger and pilot.

Over the years I have kept a house in Norfolk,in locations such as Diss and Swaffham. I travel a lot and gave up using Norwich many years ago. The drive to Heathrow is a more pleasant experience.

The airport is run down with poor facilities and surly staff.Add to that the risk it being fogged out due to no ILS on runway 09 and hours hanging around in Schipol meant like many I voted with my feet.

Despite being on another continent I read the local paper everyday which feature negative comments whenever a NWI story appears.

I see you live in Southampton which is a long way from Norwich.

[Harry Wayfarers]

Perhaps some you fans of Norwich can explain why a round trip to AMS costs £300.

It is only an hour away but twice the price of Norwich to Aberdeen.

Well, quite randomly, I just selected NWI/SPL/NWI 18-25 January and the round trip fare was GBP146.38, 18-25 February then just GBP118.38 ... How much does a new Embraer cost to sell seats on it for as little as GBP59.19 including taxes?

Total priceGBP118.38 AdultFare per passenger59.00Taxes per passenger59.38Price118.38

And in case somebody hasn't told you ... Flights over seas, as opposed to over land, are invariably more expensive for a very logical reason.

[canberra97]

Indonesia is even further!

[Mike Flynn]

And in case somebody hasn't told you ... Flights over seas, as opposed to over land, are invariably more expensive for a very logical reason.

I have been a pilot for over 36 years and have never heard that before!

Ryanair do not appear to have a problem with low fares and flying 'over seas'.

Take a look at Skytrax reviews or indeed the airports Facebook review section.

[Harry Wayfarers]

NWI sn't so important to me to go checking reviews, I'm a hotelier and some of the reviews of my place :) , but I have fond memories of living both in Watton and some years later Norwich, the fish & chip stall in Norwich market, the Colman's Mustard shop etc. etc. etc.

[Mike Flynn]

I have fond memories of the airport being run by the council and the excellent staff they had there in the 1990's.

I am not anti Norwich but think it's sad the managment don't want to make the place more user friendly.

I took this on the apron some years ago. The car used to belong to me and a friend flew the aircraft for Air UK which is now in the museum.https://preview.ibb.co/ca5676/IMG_0199.jpg (https://ibb.co/m64NfR)

[Harry Wayfarers]

I worked for Air UK and of a quiet weekend shift, if we weren't in 'Red Roofs' :) , one of uswould nip off to AMS for 6 crates of Grolsch.

One Sunday I was coming back, we had to hold in our Shed 360 for the Red Arrows to do their thing, and as I came thru the terminal, in uniform, the Reds asked me how they could get back out on the tarmac, I told them to follow me and observing my 6 crates of Grolsch they willingly agreed :)

[no slots]

Mr SATA. Pilot for 36 years? Clearly you have forgotten your 'met' training. In the UK, it is rare to have fog with a wind above 5kts as it tends to disperse it so landing on 27 is rarely an issue. As with comparing the Far East with the UK! You know ( but to enhance your criticism you forget to mention) that the Far East is by far the fastest growing economy and aviation sector in the world and national governments are investing huge amounts of tax payers money into it. Most scheduled services in Europe are served by 'modern' aircraft now due to strict air pollution regs which is why a lot of the older aircraft have gone to less developed countries ( including many parts of the Far East). You know nothing about what is going on in Norwich except the bad press that you're so eager to share. So stay where you are and talk about something you might have some knowledge about because what is happening out there is of no concern to us over here. The airport is showing an increase in passenger numbers and flights year on year. Clearly these people have a choice and are exercising that choice by walking through the door.

[Planespeaking]

The car is Jersey registered and looks strangely similar to the one driven by Jim Bergerac in the 1980s TV series of the same name. I know because I lived in Guernsey in the 1980s and worked there for AirUK.

[Mike Flynn]

You know nothing about what is going on in Norwich except the bad press that you're so eager to share. So stay where you are and talk about something you might have some knowledge about because what is happening out there is of no concern to us over here. The airport is showing an increase in passenger numbers and flights year on year. Clearly these people have a choice and are exercising that choice by walking through the door.

Clearly you work at Norwich and are out to defend the place.

I certainly do have contact with it via a couple of friends who have the misfortune to work as pilots for KLM. Most of the traffic growth has come from the closure of the helicopter base at North Denes.

Have you seen the sad file picture in the Eastern Daily Press a few days ago? Rust stains showing through the paint on the entrance canopy supports. How much of the 'development fee' goes on paint and maintenance of the passenger areas?

I suggest you spool back three years and read some Pprune comments to you from 2014.


GASAX
"As far as the 'growth of Norwich traffic' is concerned it would appear the East Anglian IQ continues to decline - or have the thieving airport management stopped ripping off passengers by charging them to get into the departure lounge with the 'Airport development fee'?

Without paying it of course you cannot get on a flight..................inspite of buying a ticket etc...

When exactly is the airport going to be 'developed'?"

This from Shaggysheepdriver



As for Norwich - the airport 'development' fee has according to their own site been used to pay for;
Quote:
Over the last four years the ADF has helped investment in the following projects at the airport:

- Increase in holiday destinations (both summer and winter) and retention of scheduled services
- Terminal building extension and refurbishment
- Flight information system
- Main apron upgrades for aircraft parking in front of the terminal
- State of the art radar equipment
- Fire training and emergency response facilities and equipment
So in other words the basic running of the facility

[canberra97]

Although it looks VERY similar to Jim Bergerac's car the actual registration for that particular vehicle was J 1610.

I worked for British Channel Island Ferries for 8 years and it was a regular vehicle on the Corbiere ferry.

[Mike Flynn]

J1656 one of three cars used in Bergerac and a genuine Jersey registered Triumph Roadster. I believe the vehicle you refer to was the main car and actually owned by someone on the mainland which had a UK registration number.

The series featured the number plate J1610 but I understand that was never issued to a Jersey based car.
http://images.car.bauercdn.com/pagefiles/19471/1040x0/car_01.jpg?scale=down

Now enough of this history lets go back to the future.

I am tempted to pay £20 for a couple of litres of blue paint to cover the rust on the steel supports over the entrance canopy at 'Norwich International'.

Perhaps No Slots will match my generosity?

The owners of Norwich Airport are not exactly poor.

Regional and City Airports is part of Rigby Group plc, the parent company for a portfolio of family-owned and highly successful businesses operating across Europe, the Middle East and North Africa. Rigby Group plc has evolved across the last 40 years into a £1.6Bn British success story with six divisions and 7,500 employees.

Rigby Group comprises six key divisions: Aviation (British International Helicopters and Capital Air Ambulance), Technology (SCC – Europe’s largest independent IT services business), Airports (Regional & City Airports, Norwich Airport, Exeter Airport and Coventry Airport), Hotels (the Eden Hotel Collection), Real Estate (Rigby & Rigby super prime property development, Rigby Group Real Estate and Imperial Park, Coventry) and Finance (Rigby Private Equity, Rigby Investments and Rigby Capital).
source https://www.norwichairport.co.uk/rigby-group/

Can I suggest you climb down from your ivory tower No Slots and look at the reality of the airport development fee being the rip off every else recognises.:ok:

With all that money behind them why is Norwich singled out for a "development fee " when other airports in the Rigby portfolio such as Bournemouth, Exeter and Coventry are not?

Looking forward to your reply:=

[Mike Flynn]

This from Loganair.
Unfortunately, the Norwich – Durham route wasn’t performing in line with expectations with no signs of improving so we’ve taken the decision to withdraw the service from January 7th”
https://www.loganair.co.uk/loganair-boosts-aberdeen-service-durham-tees-valley-airport/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=december+2017

[Expressflight]

J1656 one of three cars used in Bergerac and a genuine Jersey registered Triumph Roadster. I believe the vehicle you refer to was the main car and actually owned by someone on the mainland which had a UK registration number.

Sorry to go off topic but what was your car J1656 doing on the apron at NWI in your photograph? Just curious.

[Mike Flynn]

No problem and always happy to reply.

I sold the car to a friend in Jersey when I emigrated to Australia in the 1980's.

He owned the Lucas agency for the Channel Islands and the production team spotted the car when sourcing parts at his dealership for the main car which had broken down.

They then added it to the props.

Three cars were used in the series.

I moved back to the UK and Norfolk in the 90's and he wanted to dispose of the car which was a pig to drive. I loaned it to a friend who was an Air UK captain and he flew the aircraft in the picture which was taken in 1997 at Norwich.

J1656 is now UK registered with a Swansea number.

The aircraft is now in the museum at Norwich.

At least we have a bit more discussion on a small airport thread.

[Expressflight]

Thanks J S

[SWBKCB]

With all that money behind them why is Norwich singled out for a "development fee " when other airports in the Rigby portfolio such as Bournemouth, Exeter and Coventry are not?

The tax was in place before Rigby got involved.

[Mike Flynn]

They could lower or drop it.Or at least spend some money on the place.

More bad news for Norwich / Amsterdam passengers today.

1 KL1502/KL1506 NORWICH- AMSTERDAM AND KL1505 AMSTERDAM- NORWICH 22nd DEC 2017 CANCELLED


Can someone please explain why Norwich has never encouraged a competitor to KLM on the Amsterdam route?

[SWBKCB]

https://www.schiphol.nl/en/page/possible-delays-due-to-weather-conditions/

Not just Norwich.

Can someone please explain why Norwich has never encouraged a competitor to KLM on the Amsterdam route?

How do you know they haven't? Who would you suggest?

[NickBarnes]

Flybe did it briefly before the £10 fee even came in. It failed. I paid around £30 one way to AMS back in 2006, earlier KLM flight that day was near full, My Flybe flight 26 pax, need I say anymore.

[Dontgothere]

What about to a different hub? It’d mean both KL and AMS would have to be competitive.

Naturally, I’d be arguing for EI regional through DUB, but that is only good for connections going west. Also for my own selfish needs, it’d be handy to fly into NWI rather than STN or SEN when flying home to see the folks.

[ara01jbb]

J S ... I refer you back to post #23 on this thread. Almost no-one flies NWI-AMS O&D. As NickBarnes reminds us, FlyBe tried and failed. KLM's route exists to feed KLM's worldwide network at Schiphol. The handful of passengers who are flying to Amsterdam are happy to pay roundtrip fares that start at £120 for a weekend return.

Norwich might be served by another airline to another hub (logically AF to CDG) but I suspect NWI management know on which side of the bread their butter lies. For a city with a population of >200,000 (and a realistic airport catchment area population of >750,000) still managing to sustain three daily flights to a global hub is not bad going. NWI-AMS has more passengers per annum than Cityhopper's equivalent routes to BHD, HUY, MME... even CWL.

(Incidentally, I'm guessing from everything that you have written so far that you are able non-rev as far as Schiphol and are upset you have to pay so much to hop across the Channel to visit Norwich.)

Merry Christmas all. :ok:

[canberra97]

Yes I think your assumption may be correct and he has been moaning about the airport ever since, what was once a very quiet thread it has recently been well and truly really ignited by someone from the other side of world concerned about a bit of paint here and there and the downfall of Norwich airport.

[Mike Flynn]

There is a big difference between stating facts and moaning Canberra. I see you are in Southampton however I still have a house in west Norfolk.

I also had an airstrip next to a house I owned near Acle for many years and my use of the NWI goes back decades.

When in the UK I still call in to collect arriving friends.

I think that qualifies me to comment.

I see firsthand what a shabby run down airport Norwich has become since privatisation.

Where does the £2.5 million extracted every year from passengers go?

Certainly not in making it a more pleasant and comfortable facility.

In my opinion the owners see the place as a property investment not a transport facility in much the same way as the train operating companies extract as much money as they can from the travelling public.

The Eastern Daily Press has run the following story today.

Flights from Norwich to Durham Tees Valley have been axed – less than three months after they were reintroduced.

Scottish airline Loganair said the route, which had an onwards connection to Aberdeen, had performed below expectations and had shown no signs of improving.

The last flight will be on January 7 and passengers who have already made bookings between Durham and Norwich will be able to get a full refund, said Loganair.

Kay Ryan, Loganair commercial director, said: “Unfortunately the Norwich – Durham route wasn’t performing in line with expectations with no signs of improving, so we’ve taken the decision to withdraw the service from January 7.

“Regardless, as the airport’s lead operator, connectivity from Norwich remains a key priority for us.”

A spokesman added the firm’s sister-company BMI Regional would continue to run a service to Aberdeen.

Loganair brought the six-days-a-week flight, which offered an onward connection to Aberdeen, back on October 15 with the aim of serving the energy industry – which has hubs in East Anglia and Scotland.

At the time of the announcement in August Loganair’s managing director Jonathan Hinkles hailed the route as an “important milestone” for the airline.

A spokesman for Norwich Airport said: “As Loganair were unable to provide warning of their decision to cancel the Durham flights we are not in a position to speculate about their reasoning for doing so.

“As ever, however, our first thoughts are for any passengers who may have relied on the service, because we know how important services linking Norwich to other parts of the country are to local businesses and the regional economy.

“This decision is very much at odds with the big picture at Norwich Airport. Even if the Loganair cancellations were taken into account passenger numbers continue to rise year-on-year, with an additional 15,000 travellers passing through the facility in 2017 and several initiatives to introduce new routes in 2018 already well under way.”

Loganair still offers flights to Edinburgh, Manchester and Jersey from Norwich, where it employs 25 staff including pilots, cabin crew and engineers.

Norwich Airport revealed its 30-year masterplan in July which sets out a vision to increase passenger numbers to more than one million by 2045 and forge international links.

Passenger numbers may be rising but they have a long way to go to reach 773,000 which was the figure for 2007. Once the development fee was introduced the numbers dropped.

Scheduled traffic has declined over the years and movements have only increased for gas platform helicopters. Part of the reason for this was the poaching of the North Denes heliport traffic at Great Yarmouth which has now closed.

https://i.imgur.com/9K2NfcW.jpg

The offshore helicopter traffic is propping up the movements via Aberdeen and Schipol.

The suggestion that they will ever reach a million is pie in the sky.

[Harry Wayfarers]

Durham Tees Valley Airport has an airport rail station still named 'Teesside Airport" that see two train services per week ... Is that NWI's fault also?

[canberra97]

Have you emailed Norwich Airport to discuss your concerns regarding the airport because it doesn't matter how much you continually moan about it on here no one can do anything about it so I don't understand your agenda.

And by way the fact that I live in Southampton makes no difference to whether I comment on the Norwich forum just as yourself still owning a home near to Norwich airport and living thousands of miles away in Indonesia gives you any more right, that sort of attitude is immature and I think we all understand that you have issues with Norwich Airport and you seem to be making that statement in all of your posts.

Whatever your trying to gain on Pprune by your continuous rants there is nothing anyone of us including yourself can do about so once again I suggest that you put your comments directly to the management of Norwich Airport and see if they answer to your requests appropriately.

Merry Christmas or should I say 'selamat hari natal'

[Mike Flynn]

Are you suggesting threads like this are just to puff airports PR or for aircraft spotters?

One of my critics is an ATCO at the NWI so he is bound to defend the place.

I am merely stating facts.

The airport management don't care as the bulk of the traffic is related to the oil and gas industry hence the demand for the Aberdeen flights.

Reviews in Skytrax and other sites plus the constant negative comments at the bottom of airport stories in the local paper mean nothing. The development fee is a case in point.

As for my location...north of the equator and certainly not Indonesia which has serious human rights issues.

[canberra97]

Well in that case who actually cares except yourself and don't we know it!

I'm leaving our discussion at this point because of your same rhetoric posts with the same agenda and that's to make a point of how much Norwich Airport has declined but know one really cares and more to the point there is nothing that anyone on Pprune can do about it so your continuous rants are not going to make any difference what so ever so as I mentioned earlier this discussion is over as it's totally pointless.

Now go get yourself a nice coffee then go outside and sit on your balcony and enjoy the sunshine.

Good day to you sir :-)

[azzbo]

Can someone please explain why Norwich has never encouraged a competitor to KLM on the Amsterdam route?

Flybe did it briefly before the £10 fee even came in. It failed. I paid around £30 one way to AMS back in 2006, earlier KLM flight that day was near full, My Flybe flight 26 pax, need I say anymore.

Flybe had some quite healthy loads on the route, and at one point were operating lots of flights out of Norwich all over the place until they had a spat with the airport manager at the time and it all went bad.

The handful of passengers who are flying to Amsterdam are happy to pay roundtrip fares that start at £120 for a weekend return.

I'm not, well £120 is at the better end of the scale - I've paid double that at short notice before to attend a funeral. What choice do I have though? It's an easier option that travelling to Stansted.

I've flown NWI to AMS 2 to 3 times a year for the past 30+ years on Air Anglia, AirUK and now KLC as I have family there and I think the fares are a rip off but I do prefer the experience over Stansted. If I travel further afield I often connect via Schiphol too for convenience, and do find it unfair that the cost of the NWI- AMS leg then goes down significantly.

In the beginning the development fee was just £3, then £5 and they remodelled the airport substantially (the departures hall was horrible when it had the toilets and offices in the middle). I agree it does look a bit unloved now though. There is also definitely a lot of resentment locally at the £10 departure tax.

Cant agree with some of the other points, security have always been fine and in line with any other airport I have used (in fact friendlier than many). The Fokker's were always well turned out, and the Embraers are really nice aircraft. Majority of cabin crew are young, and provide a good service. It's been eroded significantly over the past 15 years but it isn't just KLM doing that and on a 30 minute flight I don't think many people really care.

The lack of public transport to and from the airport for the past 30 years also doesn't help at all, I'm in Norwich and a pre booked minicab doesn't set me back too much but the lack of a dedicated bus route must be perplexing to passengers not from the area. Often there aren't even taxi's hanging around (although I would advise anybody to use a local company as it's far cheaper).

You could argue there isn't the demand for a dedicated bus route and probably be right, but with 1 or maybe even 2 trains an hour direct to Stansted (extended from Cambridge) in the next couple of years negating the change at Ely the lack of one isn't helping the airport at all.

[canberra97]

azzbo

Please don't encourage Jay Sata to get involved in the discussion again please I beg you :-)

[Harry Wayfarers]

According to http://www.traveline.info/ (http://http://www.traveline.info/) there is a 501 bus route from Norwich bus station to the airport!

From Bus Station (Stand J), Surrey Street, Norwich City Centre, take 501 bus to Amsterdam Way O/S Passenger Terminal, Norwich International Airport
21 minutes. Depart 09:15, Arrive 09:36

[ara01jbb]

Around about the time of the change in operators last year (from Norse to Konect Bus), the 501 Park & Ride was re-routed to swing through the airport at the end of its outbound journey to the Airport P&R. You can now catch a bus from the terminal every 15 - 30 minutes on a weekday. Inbound towards the city you'll spend a few minutes waiting at the P&R site before the bus runs express to Anglia Square, Tombland, Castle Meadow then on to Thickthorn.

[tommynwi]

TUI now have Dalaman on sale from may 26th, although flights state other carrier. These will complement thomas cooks flights throughout the summer so there are now 2 weekly flights to Dalaman in summer 18 compared to none in summer 17.

[Mike Flynn]

Am I missing something here?

BE4326 Flybe flight was diverted to the Midlands over a “suspected technical issue”, according to the airline.

“All passengers on the flight will be assisted back to Norwich once they’ve arrived,” said a Flybe spokesman. “This flight has been diverted as a safety precaution due to a suspected technical issue.”

The spokesman added they “sincerely apologise” for any inconvenience caused.

Birmingham is further than Norwich.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/norwich-flight-diverted-birmingham-1-5344239

[Mike Flynn]

The latest here from Alan Partridge International in Norwich.



A flight from Alicante due to land in Norwich at 1.40pm has been diverted to Birmingham as a “safety precaution”.

The BE4326 Flybe flight was diverted to the Midlands over a “suspected technical issue”, according to the airline.

“All passengers on the flight will be assisted back to Norwich once they’ve arrived,” said a Flybe spokesman. “This flight has been diverted as a safety precaution due to a suspected technical issue.”

The spokesman added they “sincerely apologise” for any inconvenience caused.



Norwich flight diverted Birmingham | Latest Norfolk and Suffolk News - Eastern Daily Press (http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/norwich-flight-diverted-birmingham-1-5344239)

Good news for passengers flying for the convenience of departing Norwich.

[JustPrivatePilot]

Maybe because Birmingham has a much longer runway....?
Not knowing what the 'technical issue' was that could have been a deciding factor

[Reverserbucket]

Quite right but principally because BHX is a base and own engineering.

[Deano777]

Is this even news?

[c52]

If airlines start flying to their engineering base instead of to the stated destination, it's something that should be nipped in the bud.

[RVF750]

Why would that be? It's a sensible decision IMHO. BHX is a main base, and they would be most likely able ot swap aircraft or get fixed quickly enough to fly onto Norwich and pick up the next sectors, long before an engineer could make it from one end of the A47 to the other!

[BizJetJock]

Start? They've been doing it as long as there have been airlines! They'd be very stupid not to.

[NickBarnes]

Good news that TUI have also added the Dalaman flight.

Presume it went to Birmingham for the ease of engineering cover, different aircraft has positioned in from Birmingham to cover the rest of the schedule for the day.

[DaveReidUK]

A "suspected technical issue" on a Dash 8 could well be a euphemism for "we won't know for sure until we try to lower the gear and land on it".

If I was a passenger on board hoping not to see the gear collapse and the prop start gouging chunks out of the runway, I'd far rather be landing at BHX (Cat 9 RFF) then NWI (Cat 6).

[Expressflight]

DaveReidUK

It would have been an E195 not a Dash 8.

[DaveReidUK]

Ah. More fool me for trusting the Eastern Daily Press and their photo. :O

[canberra97]

The media often use library pictures so never assume anything from photos in newspapers.

[sparkie320]

The Alicante flight did divert to Birmingham

On arrival at Norwich the 190 FBEN had a warning come on whilst on Approach, conditions were damp on the runway, so a divert to Birmingham took place
where the aircraft was swopped with FBEI and flew into Norwich a bit latter on
Yes the runway is shorter at NWI, one day we get the extension

Hope that clears up the story

[NickBarnes]

https://www.norwichairport.co.uk/route-research/

Interesting post in their News section

[Planespeaking]

Everyone will welcome market research, but the wording of this smacks of desperation. Surely the airport will have it's marketing agencies reaching out to
possible airlines offering viable routes and incentives.

Ten out of ten for trying, but it seems a rather amateur way of promoting the Norwich facility.

[AirportPlanner1]

There's only a finite range of scheduled destinations that are viable from Norwich and most of them are in place already. Portugal (other than Faro), Poland and Lithuania are not among them. Yes a good number of migrants from those countries live and work in Norfolk and Suffolk, but not enough to fill Airbuses week in week out. Also many are price sensitive and will happily drive down to STN or LTN to save a few quid.

[Mike Flynn]

The Alicante flight did divert to Birmingham

On arrival at Norwich the 190 FBEN had a warning come on whilst on Approach, conditions were damp on the runway, so a divert to Birmingham took place
where the aircraft was swopped with FBEI and flew into Norwich a bit latter on
Yes the runway is shorter at NWI, one day we get the extension

Hope that clears up the story

The non pilots on here really show their ignorance sometimes.

...conditions were damp on the runway, so a divert to Birmingham took place:ugh:

I have landed on countless 'damp' runways over the last 36 years. Can you please explain where I have been going wrong?:ok:

[southside bobby]

Certainly a R/W declared "damp" "damp" "damp" even with a grooved surface does have a material effect on prospective landings depending if only on the direction & speed of wind relative to the R/W orientation.
Electronic flight bags in use & consulted AM yesterday with "heavies" arriving at STN.

[Expressflight]

...... and I believe that the NWI runway is not grooved. Sparkie320's explanation sounded reasonable to me.

[Mike Flynn]

Are you a pilot?

[Mike Flynn]

The Alicante flight did divert to Birmingham

On arrival at Norwich the 190 FBEN had a warning come on whilst on Approach, conditions were damp on the runway, so a divert to Birmingham took place
where the aircraft was swopped with FBEI and flew into Norwich a bit latter on
Yes the runway is shorter at NWI, one day we get the extension

Hope that clears up the story

Well I am sorry but is does not.

Your synopsis above is juvenile to put it mildly.

Damp runways do not prevent a landing.
Take a look at the rain on this landing at Warsaw.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KxgNB4kpDuU

If the aircraft had a serious issue that required diversion this will be an item in the forthcoming monthly AAIB monthly bulletins.

see here https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/air-accidents-investigation-branch

In short more amunition to suggest Norwich Airport should be Alan Partridge International. The only UK airport where aircraft are grounded for a "damp" runway.

[SWBKCB]

So an incident on 5 January would have made it into the AAIB bulletin published on the 11 January? Your faith in their efficiency is heart-warming.

Never let the facts get in the way of a cheap shot at NWI, eh? :eek:

Careful, your agenda's showing.... :=

[Mike Flynn]

No agenda needed.

The facts speak for themselves.

Most diversions are due to the limited facilities available on runway 09.

Take a look at this which is what we see from the left hand seat.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TLsme4lIL5k

Here is a previous example.

A passenger flying back to Norwich from Spain claims an unexpected diversion left him and around 200 others stranded at Manchester Airport.
The Thomson Boeing 737-800 was due to land at Norwich Aiport at around 9.50pm on Tuesday, September 26, having taken off from Palma de Mallorca at 8.17pm.
But data shows after circling around Norwich, flight TOM5249 was forced to divert to Manchester Airport, eventually landing at 10.54pm.
One passenger, who was aboard the flight, said more than 200 people were left with “no advice, help or direction”.
He added that some of the passengers had since written to the head office of TUI - the new name of Thomson - about their experience.
“Over 200 people were dumped at Manchester Airport,” he said. “With No advice help or direction.”
A spokesman for Manchester Airport confirmed the flight was diverted.
Thompson and Norwich Airport has been contacted for comment.

source...

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/airline-passenger-flying-to-norwich-from-spain-claims-he-was-left-stranded-with-200-others-after-flight-was-diverted-to-manchester-1-5215670

In reply to Planespeaking

Everyone will welcome market research, but the wording of this smacks of desperation. Surely the airport will have it's marketing agencies reaching out to
possible airlines offering viable routes and incentives.

Ten out of ten for trying, but it seems a rather amateur way of promoting the Norwich facility.

The place is desperate for new custom while ignoring why they lost so much of the old regulars like me.

I stopped flying in there with fixed wing and helicopters when the managment decided to make it difficult for private operators some years ago. At the same time their attitude to passengers took a slide. Just google Norwich airport reviews.

[GrahamK]

Over 200 people on a 737 suggests something wrong straight away

[Harry Wayfarers]

flight TOM5249 was forced to divert to Manchester Airport

You tell me who forced it and I'll go and sort them out for you :) ... I mean they could have diverted somewhere nicer than MAN or did they go for the Boddingtonjs!

[Expressflight]

Over 200 people on a 737 suggests something wrong straight away

Ah, well there we are then; too heavy for NWI obviously! (mind you not sure Jay Sata does humour so looking out for incoming).

To briefly answer his question of yesterday:

I learned to fly in my late teens but didn't enjoy it as much as I'd hoped so didn't continue. I became a LAME Group licence holder (long since lapsed) and later a UK AOC post-holder as Ops Director. So no I'm not a pilot. I won't bore you with the rest of my varied and very enjoyable aviation career.

[NickBarnes]

honestly ignore Jay Sata one day he might go away. Sounds like you have had a great career in the industry!

[sparkie320]

Jay Sata

When i wrote about the 190 diverting to Birmingham i did not expect such a waste of reply
was you there umm no so dont judge me on what i wrote ok
the fact are he called up on the radio with a fault, the air traffic controller confirmed runway damp end of
He asked are you diverting , yes if i can and went for Birmingham, posible cause there engineering there, fault can be checked, also runway length might been a factor,
the aircraft had actually suffered a pressure leak few days before and returned to stand before going on to Exeter
what the fault was, the reason for diversion who knows
but lets keep it civil and stop these silly remarks

[Mike Flynn]

No doubt I will upset some more of my critics by posting the latest bad news.

This from todays Eastern Daily Press.

A regional airline is cancelling its flights from Norwich to Aberdeen, leaving many energy industry workers in the lurch.

BMI Regional’s decision to stop flying the route comes just weeks after Loganair scrapped its flight to Durham, with both carriers blaming a lack of demand.

BMI said its flights between Norwich and the Scottish city would stop on February 11 – a decision influenced by “changing market conditions”.

But a Norfolk-based oil industry worker, who has been flying on the route for 25 years, says it could spell trouble for oil and gas firms trying to conduct business along the east coast.
BMI’s sister company Loganair said in December that low passenger numbers had led it to stop operating its Norwich-Durham route, but a BMI spokesman said the actions were not connected.
The oil industry worker, who wished to remain anonymous, told this newspaper that the route’s cancellation would inconvenience him and others working in the sector – particularly as the oil and gas industry in the North Sea is beginning to recover and passenger demand could consequently grow.
“Considering this part of the world has major business ties with that part of Scotland it seems odd,” he said.

“It seems strange to keep [the flights] on through the worst of times for the oil industry and scrap them now.”

Eastern Airways, which signed a codesharing agreement with Flybe last year, still flies between Norwich and Aberdeen. The oil worker claimed the airline had reduced its timetable, making it more difficult to conduct a return journey between the cities in one day, but a spokesman for Eastern Airways said there had been no changes, nor were changes planned, to its service.

A BMI spokesman said it could “no longer maintain a sustainable commercial service” on the Norwich-Aberdeen route.
“Despite recent rises in oil prices, structural shifts in the oil and gas industry and the way it conducts business have resulted in a permanent change to passenger numbers between Aberdeen and Norwich.”

[Harry Wayfarers]

Two competitor operators on a NWI/ABZ route was a silly idea in the first place, reducing it to one operator suggests that the route shall survive, bravo!

[Planespeaking]

Two competitor operators on a NWI/ABZ route was a silly idea in the first place, reducing it to one operator suggests that the route shall survive, bravo!

It's what's known as market forces....survival of the fittest. Nothing to see here, move along.

[Dontgothere]

BMI had been on the route long enough - I suspect that they probably lost a contract on the route and that made it uneconomic to continue with.

[01475]

Excellent news for Eastern, who are probably due some...

... unless Loganair decide to continue their retaliatory campaign of being upsettedness. I wonder if they will!

[ara01jbb]

Discussed in the BMI thread a few days ago.

I don't recall the exact start date, but this route is longer than most would have realised. I can remember seeing it in the BMI printed timeable circa 2002, I think. It's a shame to lose competition on the route, especially as BM serve it from with an ABZ-based aircraft and T3 serve it with NWI-based aircraft.

However the North Sea oil and gas industry is no longer so inclined to send all its staff by air. Riggers are much more likely to be sent by train if transferring between the two cities. Perhaps T3 will take some comfort from losing the competition (and maybe jack up the average fare in the process).

[SWBKCB]

survival of the fittest

Is this the first time this phrase has been used to refer to Eastern?

[MDS]

I don't recall the exact start date, but this route is longer than most would have realised. I can remember seeing it in the BMI printed timeable circa 2002

Yeah it started in Q4 2002 IIRC.

They also operated NWI-MAN briefly in 2003/4 with the same equipment.

It's a shame to see an operator exit NWI, however I think this particular route canx is due to the state of the UK oil industry more than anything.

[Mike Flynn]

Which illustrates the fact Norwich has all its eggs in one basket. Everyone in the city regards it as a riggers airport relying on the Amsterdam and Aberdeen routes. As such it is just a big rundown shed with very basic facilities.

If KLM ever pull out that will be the end.

[canberra97]

Doom and Gloom again I see, don't you ever have anything positive to say, you rub so many people up the wrong way with your uneeded negative and tedious comments on here everytime.

[TartinTon]

Looks like Eastern are re-basing the aircraft to ABZ based on the new timings. Very similar to the current BM schedule.

[fjencl]

Maybe they will be putting the embraer 170 on the route

[Albert Hall]

Jay, so if Frankfurt has also lost its link to Aberdeen, does that place Frankfurt in the same "pisspot regional airport category" that you seem to have created for Norwich? Of course not. It's more likely that a spate of route cuts at ABZ (Frankfurt, loss of second carrier on NWI and something else yet to come) are related to structural issues in the Aberdeen market rather than any perceived failings of Norwich. It's clearly not good news for Norwich and I don't think anyone would dress it up as such, but using this to pursue the narrow anti-Norwich agenda is an implausible stretch of logic.

[inOban]

One of the structural changes in the ABZ market is that as the focus of the oil industry moves North, the helicopter traffic is transferring to Shetland. I assume that the oil workers are flying via Edinburgh, no need to call in at Aberdeen.

[NickBarnes]

Just incase nobody has seen but the seat map for the flights between NWI/ABZ is the Emb145. Which means only one thing

[AirportPlanner1]

Jay Sata

Out of interest what is it you think Norwich should be offering given its local economy and catchment? Iberia 4 daily to Madrid? El Al to Tel Aviv? American to JFK?

The loss of BMI will at least save the airport having to keep departures manned for a couple of dozen people each evening

[Harry Wayfarers]

Jay Sata

So are those the only routes that your ex Air UK Captain buddy operated, ABZ and AMS.

Back in the day Air UK operated a NWI/LHR route, a NWI/MME route, NWI/EDI, NWI/HUY, weekend CI routes were popular, not just ABZ and AMS, these other routes were surrendered as a result of Air UK becoming KLM UK whereas only AMS was focused upon.

Get a 3rd runway at LHR and I can envisage that becoming a route, these east coast operators are trying some of the old Air UK routes, the IT routes that seem to be increasing, allbeit slowly, year on year, thanks to Air UK, and Air Anglia before it, KLM has a maintenance base at NWI that brings in rent, landing, parking fees etc., the list goes on, it's far from all about AMS & Helicopters!

[Mike Flynn]

Jay, so if Frankfurt has also lost its link to Aberdeen, does that place Frankfurt in the same "pisspot regional airport category" that you seem to have created for Norwich? Of course not. It's more likely that a spate of route cuts at ABZ (Frankfurt, loss of second carrier on NWI and something else yet to come) are related to structural issues in the Aberdeen market rather than any perceived failings of Norwich. It's clearly not good news for Norwich and I don't think anyone would dress it up as such, but using this to pursue the narrow anti-Norwich agenda is an implausible stretch of logic.

In answer to your question Frankfurt is a major airport with nearly 1400 flights a day and clearly not in the same league as tiny Norwich.

As I stated previously the airport has a lot of eggs in the offshore oil business as indeed does Aberdeen.Any decline in that industry is going to affect the bottom line.

The much discussed departure fee is a bone of contention for locals. There is certainly no evidence of it being spent on the terminal. Facts speak for themselves.In 2007 passenger numbers reached a record 772,000.Once they introduced the tax numbers fell below half a million and have never recovered to those levels.

Newquay dropped it and Ryanair returned.

I am merely telling the truth when I say the place is run down and not customer friendly.

Have you read the Skytrax reviews of Norwich airport?

[canberra97]

And the agenda continues!

[Harry Wayfarers]

I've had some posts deleted by the mods but I'm not bitching or complaining about it, just saying that my complete opinion, in favour of NWI, isn't being heard.

[01475]

I agreed with them fully.

The UK has enough airports of all different kinds that have been run in all different ways that we can see what works and what doesn't. While Norwich can't be a Newquay (the North Norfolk coast is nice but just isn't the same tourist draw), it needs to try and draw itself out of the same league as Blackpool and Teesside.

[fotheringay]

On a slightly different but positive note, I flew on the Flybe service to Exeter the other day on the Embraer and it must have been 3/4 full. It seems to work well because it saves driving for over five hours by car or trekking over London by train to get to Exeter. Good price too.

[ara01jbb]

NWI-EXT is a clever one.

BE cut a deal (five years?) with Regional & City Airports Ltd. to serve AGP and ALC from both NWI and EXT. A crew and a/c based in EXT can fly EXT-AGP-NWI-EXT in the AM, change crew and then do EXT-NWI-AGP-EXT in the PM. No night stops, no need for a crew base in Norwich, and the bonus is that in between the reasonably resilient sunshine routes is a loss-leading (from £19.99 one way) domestic route that'd make no sense as a daily standalone route.

[fotheringay]

However, the Spanish sectors were suspended during January but the NWI-EXT continued with Flybe using the Dash am only.

[southside bobby]

LOG canx proposed INV service.

[Mike Flynn]

Why would you pay £500 for a return trip to Scotland when you can fly to New York for £400, You can also fly via Amsterdam to Scotland cheaper than going direct.

[M-JCS]

Why would you pay £500 for a return trip to Scotland when you can fly to New York for £400, You can also fly via Amsterdam to Scotland cheaper than going direct.

You are assuming, and you're not alone, that everyone's situation demands or allows for the cheapest possible fares, regardless of flight times, time in transit, or even destination airport location, let alone comfort. But then you are part of the set wanting, actually needing, to cram hundreds of passengers into a very large aircraft with hopes you have enough on board paying their minimal fares to make the flight profitable. Loganair is quite clearly in a completely different market to your own. Even within the leisure market, there are those who would prefer not to p@ss their time away, but want to get on with their holidays. Are you telling us that's not the mentality in Asia?

[Scottish Flyer]

I had booked on the Loganair flight to Inverness and the fare (including all taxes) was a not unreasonable £152 return in late July. I live about 60 miles from Norwich but the alternative of travelling to Luton, Heathrow or Gatwick would be a similar or greater distance and much more hassle. I am disappointed about the route being withdrawn before it had started. I am still flying from Norwich as Loganair have offered me the alternative routing of flying via Manchester.

[Dontgothere]

I think there is a more fundamental problem at play with the canning of the INV service, was there going to be enough demand for it (high prices or low prices)? I think not, NWI is my parents' local airport and they couldn't think of many people who would have any desire to go to INV.

Loganair are interlining with Aer Lingus on their flights into Dublin from Inverness and Carlisle, I shouldn't think it impossible (with a little re-jigging of the schedules and maybe leaving the JER route to Flybe) to factor in a daily flight to DUB from NWI - as far as my eyes can see, it'd stand a better chance of success because it wouldn't be solely reliant on O&D traffic and would rival, in a small way, KLM's monopoly on flights to beyond Europe. Plus, perhaps selfishly, it'd make my life easier when going to see the folks, rather than flying to to STN or SEN and taking multiple trains the rest of the way.

However, with direct trains from Norwich to Stansted only a couple years away, NWI will have to pick up its plans and try to be just a little bit competitive as the area becomes less cut off from the outside world.

[SWBKCB]

Loganair are interlining with Aer Lingus on their flights into Dublin from Inverness and Carlisle

Are they? Aren't bookable on the Aer Lingus website.

[Harry Wayfarers]

Are they? Aren't bookable on the Aer Lingus website.

He did say 'interlining' rather than 'code sharing', I guess he means, as an example, that one can book CAX/USA in one booking via DUB.

[BAladdy]

Loganair are planning to replace the 2 D328 aircraft based at NWI with ER3’s during 2019, According to the 2 articles below.

Scotland?s Loganair to increase jet fleet | Airframes content from ATWOnline (http://m.atwonline.com/airframes/scotland-s-loganair-increase-jet-fleet)
https://buyingbusinesstravel.com/feature/2329327-interview-jonathan-hinkles-loganair

[LXGB]

News:Councils ready to accept deal to sell their stakes in Norwich Airport (http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/norwich-and-norfolk-councils-to-sell-shares-in-norwich-airport-1-6138827)

[NickBarnes]

News:Councils ready to accept deal to sell their stakes in Norwich Airport (http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/norwich-and-norfolk-councils-to-sell-shares-in-norwich-airport-1-6138827)

Not really sure what this will mean if anything, just that the rigby group will have full control

[fotheringay]

Does anybody know whether the Spanish and the NWI-EXT services, presently operated by Flybe, will continue with another operator when Flybe finish at the end of October? I occasionally use the EXT service and find it really useful. The loads are pretty good too. The alternative is to travel by road or train which have the pain of theM25 and London, respectively, in the journey. Enough said!

[NickBarnes]

I believe they tried to get someone in for the Spanish routes but the deal fell through unfortunately but they are trying to sort something for the Exeter to continue, so will have to watch this space, like you say I have used it a few times now and loads a pretty decent but whether the yeild is good is another matter of course

[fotheringay]

I believe they tried to get someone in for the Spanish routes but the deal fell through unfortunately but they are trying to sort something for the Exeter to continue, so will have to watch this space, like you say I have used it a few times now and loads a pretty decent but whether the yeild is good is another matter of course. Thanks for the info.

[Mike Flynn]

Prince William and family today flew economy from Norwich to Aberdeen.

What’s the betting they were not subjected to the usual surly staff,over the top bag searches and a £10 departure fee?

The Duke of Cambridge and Duchess of Cambridge (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/kate_middleton/index.html) took the 8.45am flight from Norwich International Airport to Aberdeen Airport with their children this morning.

The royal couple and their family can be spotted being escorted from the budget FlyBe plane and getting into waiting vehicles, where they are expected to be whisked away to visit the Queen and Prince Philip at Balmoral.

[virginblue]

You have to love the Daily Mail for its reporting:

Prince William and Kate Middleton's budget plane

Make of the plane: Part of the ERJ series popular with budget airlines

[Mike Flynn]

You have to love the Daily Mail for its reporting:[B]



So factual or what?

And your point is?

[Flightrider]

I could ask the same about your posting under the media story to which you'd linked!!

[scodaman]

You have to love the Daily Mail for its reporting:[B]




Would that have been one of the Loganair jets then?

[NickBarnes]

Prince William and family today flew economy from Norwich to Aberdeen.

What’s the betting they were not subjected to the usual surly staff,over the top bag searches and a £10 departure fee?



Mike oh Mike you never cease to amaze with your vendetta against Norwich.

[inOban]

According to the Scotsman this morning Flybe flew an empty plane from Humberside to Norwich for the flight so that the Royal party were in a Flybe-branded plane. The scheduled Loganair plane flew empty to Aberdeen to pick up the schedule. They suggest an extra 4tonnes of CO2...

[PDXCWL45]

According to the Scotsman this morning Flybe flew an empty plane from Humberside to Norwich for the flight so that the Royal party were in a Flybe-branded plane. The scheduled Loganair plane flew empty to Aberdeen to pick up the schedule. They suggest an extra 4tonnes of CO2...
Eastern Airways not Flybe.

[Mike Flynn]

It appears William and Kate were not subjected to the usual Norwich security gestapo or indeed the £10 departure fee.

They were driven through a security gate to the ramp and boarded last minute avoiding the plebs.

As for my critics the airport scores 3/10 on Skytrax and here is a review from this month.

sleepy, lazy and incompetently-run airport"M Warden (United Kingdom) 7th August 2019✅ Trip Verified (https://www.airlinequality.com/verified-reviews/) | A sleepy, lazy and incompetently-run airport - with an outrageous £10 "airport improvement" tax. OK, Norwich airport does have some advantages: it is small, and it's possible to park 20m from the main entrance. But that's about it. Check-in staff were fine, but then all passengers have to pay £10 for a ridiculous "Airport Improvement" fee. It's just rent-seeking by a lazy management team - no sign of any improvement since I last travelled through Norwich airport 10 years ago. And then security were unable to scan phone-based boarding passes. In an airport. The lack of urgency or interest in giving customer service from the security screening staff was about as poor as I've seen anywhere in the world. Just shameful. The Business lounge was equally laughable. There was tea, coffee, a couple of soft drinks and a few bits and pieces of snacks. And that was it. OK, it's a small airport but clearly they do the absolute minimum consistent with having a lounge for Business-class travellers. Barely worth being in. Arrivals experience was a bit better - the plane had to wait 15 minutes for ground staff to bring up some steps, which was poor. But passport control took seconds, and bag delivery was only about 10 mins. Still, I would avoid flying out of Norwich if there's a sensible choice to go elsewhere.

[NickBarnes]

It appears William and Kate were not subjected to the usual Norwich security gestapo or indeed the £10 departure fee.

They were driven through a security gate to the ramp and boarded last minute avoiding the plebs.

As for my critics the airport scores 3/10 on Skytrax and here is a review from this month.



Once again everyone please ignore Mike Flynn and surprise surprise our next closest airport to Norwich scores 2/10 on Skytrax.

[PDXCWL45]

It appears William and Kate were not subjected to the usual Norwich security gestapo or indeed the £10 departure fee.

They were driven through a security gate to the ramp and boarded last minute avoiding the plebs.

As for my critics the airport scores 3/10 on Skytrax and here is a review from this month.


No different to most football teams then and no doubt other VIPs.

[virginblue]

So factual or what?

And your point is?

The rather exclusive understanding of the Daily Mail that, as quoted by me, "the ERJ series [is] popular with budget airlines"

[MDS]

It'd be nice if they got rid of the £10 departure tax. It's a bad faith 'gotcha' charge which annoys a lot of customers and prevents any real expansion from LCC's.

Soon it'll be the only airport in the UK with such a ridiculous scheme (as MME airport is soon to abolish it) -- infact, I can't think of any other in the whole of Europe which does this nonsense.

After Flybe abandon the sun routes at the end of summer the airport will have the same soggy set of routes they had over 15 years ago; ABZ, AMS, MAN, and EDI (although with even less frequency) - (https://web.archive.org/web/20040807045248/http://www.norwichairport.co.uk/timetable.pdf). Less holiday destinations in summertime too. Despite collecting at least £50m since the inception of the passenger fee, there have been no improvements to justify even a fraction of that cost.

Summer 2004 allowed you to fly to LPA, MAH, SPU, ALC, PMI, MLA, TFS, PFO, ACE, AGP, DLM, JER, IBZ, FAO, DBV, CFU. Even winter was able to maintain a solid set of routes.

They've pushed out all the GA flyers with extortionate charges, and all the flying schools (besides Premier Flight) have abandoned it (Anglia Air Centre, Norwich School of Flying, etc.)

I'm not a hater of the airport by any means -- it's one of the main influences as to why I became interested in aviation many years ago and pursued it as a career, hence I'm quite passionate about what happens at NWI; but what positives are there to speak about nowadays? Any?

[Mike Flynn]

It'd be nice if they got rid of the £10 departure tax. It's a bad faith 'gotcha' charge which annoys a lot of customers and prevents any real expansion from LCC's.

Soon it'll be the only airport in the UK with such a ridiculous scheme (as MME airport is soon to abolish it) -- infact, I can't think of any other in the whole of Europe which does this nonsense.

After Flybe abandon the sun routes at the end of summer the airport will have the same soggy set of routes they had over 15 years ago; ABZ, AMS, MAN, and EDI (although with even less frequency) - (https://web.archive.org/web/20040807045248/http://www.norwichairport.co.uk/timetable.pdf). Less holiday destinations in summertime too. Despite collecting at least £50m since the inception of the passenger fee, there have been no improvements to justify even a fraction of that cost.

Summer 2004 allowed you to fly to LPA, MAH, SPU, ALC, PMI, MLA, TFS, PFO, ACE, AGP, DLM, JER, IBZ, FAO, DBV, CFU. Even winter was able to maintain a solid set of routes.

They've pushed out all the GA flyers with extortionate charges, and all the flying schools (besides Premier Flight) have abandoned it (Anglia Air Centre, Norwich School of Flying, etc.)

I'm not a hater of the airport by any means -- it's one of the main influences as to why I became interested in aviation many years ago and pursued it as a career, hence I'm quite passionate about what happens at NWI; but what positives are there to speak about nowadays? Any?

That is an excellent assessment of Norwich MDS.

Many years ago we had the GA centre with a wonderful club and bar overlooking the airport.

In my early days flying up from the Channel Islands I was allowed to park outside the terminal building for a few hours. This was 1992 when the airport was run by the local council as a facility not a money making machine.

Saxonair provide a good handling service.In the case of the recent royals they would have handled them to the aircraft so like GA aircraft no departure fee or miserable staff in what I can best describe as a shed.

The management of Norwich know the airport is dependent on the oil and gas offshore trade. KLM Engineering has just signed a deal with Rigby to put up a new shed but with Brexit one has to ask what future Norwich has.

I have a few critics such as Nick Barnes but when you descend to the basement of Pprune you find the anoraks and spotters.

The reason private GA and helicopter movements have left Norwich is down to the management who treat their customers in a truly abysmal way.

The airport building is little more than a sad looking industrial building with a lot of bored low paid staff.

Be nice to see what flying qualifications Nick has to post on what is a pilots rumour network?

[Mike Flynn]

I have posted this before but here it is again for my critics.

I have fond memories of the airport being run by the council and the excellent staff they had there in the 1990's.

I am not anti Norwich but think it's sad the managment don't want to make the place more user friendly.

I took this on the apron some years ago. The car used to belong to me and a friend flew the aircraft for Air UK which is now in the museum.https://preview.ibb.co/ca5676/IMG_0199.jpg (https://ibb.co/m64NfR)

[MARKEYD]

Looks like his car has got a parking ticket attached to the windscreen

[Mike Flynn]

I do not bash Norwich for the sake of it.

There are some wonderful small airports I frequent around the world. Most of the commentators here are airline spotters and ‘enthusiasts’ but not pilots. In reply to Nick I suggest you take a look at why Norwich Airport gets such bad reviews. I speak as someone who has spent a small fortune on fixed wing and helicopters over 35 years across the globe. I think that entitles me to post fair comment.

You post as a non pilot on what is a pilots forum.

What I do take umbrage at is the rip off airport development fee that has delivered nothing in over a decade.

Norwich is par for the course compared to many third world countries I visit.

As a so called ‘International ‘ airport it is a joke. Less space than the nearby B and Q shed and the facilities are abysmal. The management don’t care because the general public are peripheral to the industry they serve in the North Sea.

The two major players that keep the place operating are the oil and gas industry and KLM. Both are interrelated in terms of a business model.

What impact Brexit will have on KLM remains to be seen.

If KLM ever close their Norwich operation the airport is finished.

[NickBarnes]

I do not bash Norwich for the sake of it.

There are some wonderful small airports I frequent around the world. Most of the commentators here are airline spotters and ‘enthusiasts’ but not pilots. In reply to Nick I suggest you take a look at why Norwich Airport gets such bad reviews. I speak as someone who has spent a small fortune on fixed wing and helicopters over 35 years across the globe. I think that entitles me to post fair comment.

You post as a non pilot on what is a pilots forum.

What I do take umbrage at is the rip off airport development fee that has delivered nothing in over a decade.

Norwich is par for the course compared to many third world countries I visit.

As a so called ‘International ‘ airport it is a joke. Less space than the nearby B and Q shed and the facilities are abysmal. The management don’t care because the general public are peripheral to the industry they serve in the North Sea.

The two major players that keep the place operating are the oil and gas industry and KLM. Both are interrelated in terms of a business model.

What impact Brexit will have on KLM remains to be seen.

If KLM ever close their Norwich operation the airport is finished.

Indeed I was a non pilot until recently when I recently qualified thank you very much and I don't think I need to justify this to you for something I worked so very hard to achieve throughout my life. The rudeness of yourself and the fact you come to a conclusion about someone beggars belief, have you ever thought that pilots can be spotters etc because guess what they love everything about aviation hense why they are a Pilot. I'm proud at what I have achieved and feel very lucky to be able to do it at this time in my life. I went back through your posts as you did mine and the most notable thing (among many questionable posts) is under the name Jay Sata you said you haven't been to Norwich Airport for years so honestly why you still post about it (everything negative) is frankly insane as it really shouldn't affect you now.
​
But anyway enough is enough of this as it's like bashing my head against a wall.

PS I enjoy using the 2 Costa coffee's both airside and landside, the world duty free and also the 2 Whsmiths that opened both landside and airside now, the new navigator pub all opened in the last year, certainly haven't seen those at third world airports. Oh and if Norwich with 3/10 on Skytrax means its third world then I hate to think what Stansted or Luton is like at 2/10.

​​​​​

[Expressflight]

There are some wonderful small airports I frequent around the world. Most of the commentators here are airline spotters and ‘enthusiasts’ but not pilots. In reply to Nick I suggest you take a look at why Norwich Airport gets such bad reviews. I speak as someone who has spent a small fortune on fixed wing and helicopters over 35 years across the globe. I think that entitles me to post fair comment.

You post as a non pilot on what is a pilots forum.
Hang on a minute Mr Flynn, are you saying that only professional pilots are qualified to post on PPRuNe? If that is so how come people like me have been allowed to join and post regularly for so many years? I never advanced beyond being a very rudimentary light aircraft pilot but my aviation experience is I'm sure as great as yours but in different areas of expertise and has certainly enabled me to contribute to the knowledge base of PPRuNe.

Getting back to NWI, since retirement it is now my local airport (although my then company did operate an aircraft from there some 15 years ago) and I use it regularly with its useful, but limited, number of destinations. I wholeheartedly agree with you on the subject of the Airport Development Fee and I consider it a drag on the airport's potential to attract new operators and routes. It has to be borne in mind though that the catchment for NWI is relatively small and it was really the demands of the oil and gas industry that gave it the basis upon which to develop more leisure oriented routes over the years. The "wonderful small airports" that you frequent no doubt have their own commercial advantages enabling them to achieve this; perhaps serving tourist resorts or wealthy communities and the like where revenues are sufficiently high. There are few small airports that I can think of which achieve a "wonderful" rating but there are a number which I have enjoyed using over the decades. Not many of them are in Europe however. I wonder if you have used EXT recently: now there is an airport that takes you straight back to the 1960s.

I'm not knocking your views in general but think that a little more realism is perhaps required.

[NickBarnes]

Hang on a minute Mr Flynn, are you saying that only professional pilots are qualified to post on PPRuNe? If that is so how come people like me have been allowed to join and post regularly for so many years? I never advanced beyond being a very rudimentary light aircraft pilot but my aviation experience is I'm sure as great as yours but in different areas of expertise and has certainly enabled me to contribute to the knowledge base of PPRuNe.

Getting back to NWI, since retirement it is now my local airport (although my then company did operate an aircraft from there some 15 years ago) and I use it regularly with its useful, but limited, number of destinations. I wholeheartedly agree with you on the subject of the Airport Development Fee and I consider it a drag on the airport's potential to attract new operators and routes. It has to be borne in mind though that the catchment for NWI is relatively small and it was really the demands of the oil and gas industry that gave it the basis upon which to develop more leisure oriented routes over the years. The "wonderful small airports" that you frequent no doubt have their own commercial advantages enabling them to achieve this; perhaps serving tourist resorts or wealthy communities and the like where revenues are sufficiently high. There are few small airports that I can think of which achieve a "wonderful" rating but there are a number which I have enjoyed using over the decades. Not many of them are in Europe however. I wonder if you have used EXT recently: now there is an airport that takes you straight back to the 1960s.

I'm not knocking your views in general but think that a little more realism is perhaps required.

Don't start him any further Expressflight, he has posted for years on the Norwich Thread under 2 names Jay Sata and then Mike Flynn with one tracked agenda, he will go back through your posts and come to conclusion, like my own which mostly have been spotterish which I agree with so of course that makes me a non pilot despite just recently qualifying and now flying out of Norwich each and everyday. Perhaps a picture of me doing that would satisfy him but then why should someone have to justify there credentials on a forum.

Your views are excellent despite being a non pilot and your opinion on the airport is certainly very good and I'm sure everyone would love to see the £10 finally go one day. As I do think that is the only thing stopping new operaters to the airport now.

[BACsuperVC10]

As an occasional user of NWI over many years on the Manchester to Norwich route. Personally I've always liked Norwich Airport , small easy to use.

[Mike Flynn]

Dear lord, I work for a airline out of Norwich after very recently qualifying after years of working within the industry in a office based role. But anyway I really can't be arsed and shouldn't really need to explain myself, but your constant bashing is beyond annoying, without consideration of people's lives and jobs that work from it. In whatever role. But anyway I can lower myself any lower to your level so shall leave it here, I can only imagine your someone who most people try to aviod.

However MDS does raise some very good points and I believe form what I hear in a few years a lot of it will be addressed for the good. And KLM engineering expansion is good news as they and like most people in the industry know that deal or no deal after brexit the world will continue to spin.

I post facts Nick.

There is no need to get personal with insults.

You suggest that you have recently qualified as a pilot?

I take it you are now a co pilot?

My posts on Norwich have never been about the flying op’s but address the abysmal ground service in the terminal and indeed outside.

[NickBarnes]

I post facts Nick.

There is no need to get personal with insults.

You suggest that you have recently qualified as a pilot?

Is that correct?
Correct

I'm going to be honest but I'm ending any dialogue with you from now on, you have rubbed people up the wrong way for years and I accept you will continue to do so but you have always a right to your opinion, but I will not be releasing any further personal information to you about my life, thank you.

But I would say it would be good for you to come through the airport again, I think you will find it's a little bit different from a few years back.

[Mike Flynn]

There's no hope in this world. I'm ending any dialogue with you from now on, you have rubbed people up the wrong way for years and I accept you will continue to do so and I will not be releasing any further personal information to you. thank you.

That’s good Nick if you have nothing constructive to add to this thread.

Google Skytrax or other sites to see how passengers assess Norwich.

Letters to the local Eastern Daily Press are frequent and mention issues such as queuing outside in freezing weather on arrival to clear customs.

Here is the text from a letter in the EDP yesterday.

“Recently, the boarding charge at Norwich Airport has again been in the news. As a traveller from there for the past 15 years, I have attempted to get information on where the money goes. I have written to two MPs for Norfolk; getting no response.

A friend of mine was told by someone at the airport that the runway had been upgraded — I would have thought that such expense would be covered by landing fees, etc.

To me, the worst aspect of the situation is that virtually nothing has been done to improve the lot of the passengers; who after all, are essential to the existence of the airport.

Surely a minor portion of the money raised could be spent on providing shelter for disembarking passengers?

Up to now up to 300 passengers are made to stand, as I have done, in driving rain, for over 30 minutes. The owners and administrators of Norwich Airport should be ashamed.”
Link here https://www.edp24.co.uk/features/why-do-passengers-pay-norwich-airport-fee-1-6248392

Having read the above how do you justify this statement Nick

I would say it would be good for you to come through the airport again, I think you will find it's a little bit different from a few years back.

The so called development fee has not resulted in any passenger creature comforts or indeed an ILS on 09.

Hence the failure of aircraft to land on 09 when the vis is poor.
I am sure you now know about decision heights and diversions.

As for the ‘International ‘ tag that is totally dependent on KLM continuing to run the service to Amsterdam.

To q

I say again this was a great little local airport decades ago run by a joint local council group who sold out to a series of commercial operaters that has now been reduced to an old shed run by the Rigby group.

[NickBarnes]

That’s good Nick if you have nothing constructive to add to this thread.

Google Skytrax or other sites to see how passengers assess Norwich.

Letters to the local Eastern Daily Press are frequent and mention issues such as queuing outside in freezing weather on arrival to clear customs.

Here is the text from a letter in the EDP yesterday.

“Recently, the boarding charge at Norwich Airport has again been in the news. As a traveller from there for the past 15 years, I have attempted to get information on where the money goes. I have written to two MPs for Norfolk; getting no response.

A friend of mine was told by someone at the airport that the runway had been upgraded — I would have thought that such expense would be covered by landing fees, etc.

To me, the worst aspect of the situation is that virtually nothing has been done to improve the lot of the passengers; who after all, are essential to the existence of the airport.

Surely a minor portion of the money raised could be spent on providing shelter for disembarking passengers?

Up to now up to 300 passengers are made to stand, as I have done, in driving rain, for over 30 minutes. The owners and administrators of Norwich Airport should be ashamed.”
Link here https://www.edp24.co.uk/features/why-do-passengers-pay-norwich-airport-fee-1-6248392

The so called development fee has not resulted in any passenger creature comforts or indeed an ILS on 09.

Hence the failure of aircraft to land on 09 when the vis is poor.
I am sure you now know about decision heights and diversions.

As for the ‘International ‘ tag that is totally dependent on KLM continuing to run the service to Amsterdam.

I say again this was a great little local airport decades ago run by a joint local council group who sold out to a series of commercial operaters that has now been reduced to an old shed run by the Rigby group.

Look I understand you will always have this opinion and that's fine, but once again I say to you in the last year, 2 brand new Costa coffee's have opened both Landside and Airside, of course the new world duty free as seen in airports up and down the land. Whsmith completely refitted landside and a new one opened Airside along with the new pub. All the creature comforts you would expect from a small airport. I must take pictures the next time I fly through as a passenger and post them and let you decide if it still looks dreadful, although I admit it doesn't look great from the outside.

Yes the ILS on 09 would be lovely but on a lot foggy days Runway 27 can be used but even then I believe our RVR needs to be 550m plus so even though that's got an ILS if it's fogged out you ain't getting in anyway.

Yes KLM is the only year round international at the minute oh and of course with Tenerife also and I stress at the minute ;) even then TUI since 2014 I think has had a based Aircraft in the form of Germania and now Sunwing for the summer season flying to a range of summer spots.

Of course we would all like to see the ADF go but once again I ask you if Norwich is 3/10 on Skytrax what makes Luton and Stansted worse at 2/10 on Skytrax?

Many things wrong with Norwich mostly to do with the ADF but aren't there at so many airports across the UK.

PS there is shelter for passengers going through although Id say a little extension would be good but there is no way an aircraft with 300 passengers would have landed at Norwich and id also say at no point have I seen passengers waiting 30 mins in the rain ever

[Mike Flynn]

Look I understand you will always have this opinion and that's fine, but once again I say to you in the last year, 2 brand new Costa coffee's have opened both Landside and Airside, of course the new world duty free as seen in airports up and down the land. Whsmith completely refitted landside and a new one opened Airside along with the new pub. All the creature comforts you would expect from a small airport. I must take pictures the next time I fly through as a passenger and post them and let you decide if it still looks dreadful, although I admit it doesn't look great from the outside.

Yes the ILS on 09 would be lovely but on a lot foggy days Runway 27 can be used but even then I believe our RVR needs to be 550m plus so even though that's got an ILS if it's fogged out you ain't getting in anyway.

Yes KLM is the only year round international at the minute oh and of course with Tenerife also and I stress at the minute ;) even then TUI since 2014 I think has had a based Aircraft in the form of Germania and now Sunwing for the summer season flying to a range of summer spots.

Of course we would all like to see the ADF go but once again I ask you if Norwich is 3/10 on Skytrax what makes Luton and Stansted worse at 2/10 on Skytrax?

Many things wrong with Norwich mostly to do with the ADF but aren't there at so many airports across the UK.

Many thanks for a more constructive and less petulant reply Nick.

The big issue with Norwich is the much hated departure fee and the staff attitude. The latter is in my opinion caused by the security unit having boring periods followed by passengers who expect to glide through a small airport as if they were in a big one.

Security staff tend to treat their job as if they were in Ben Gurion.(Israels premier airport) and the passengers are subjected to highly invasive searches not encountered at Heathrow or Gatwick.

Passenger profiling at Norwich is simple compared to other parts of the world.

The departure fee is hated because nothing has really changed at Norwich in my 30 years of looking at and and using the airport. (I last used Norwich 15 years ago)

Private helicopter and non exec GA aircraft abandoned using the site when the old club area was no longer an easy access. The fact that a handling agent is mandatory means a lot of light aviation now uses airfields such as Old Buckenham.

The management seem oblivious to what customers actually want. The outside of the building still looks like the same shed it was when I first flew in there from Jersey in 1991. You can say that Costa and others have spent money but that does not come from the departure fee.

NDB landings went out decades ago.

All I see at Norwich is KLM running the place like a satellite for maintenance and oil and gas flights.

They own no assets there and could pull out quickly.

It might be an idea for Rigby’s management to publicly engage with the users of Norwich airport.

[Flightrider]

I have to say I cannot agree with the criticisms above, and I say that as an infrequent user of Norwich.

I quite like the airport. Yes, the ADF is a pain. However, I've never found security to be invasive (and I could give you a list of places in the UK allegedly working to the same legislation of which I could say that) and it has retained the convenience and speed benefits of being able to use a smaller airport - which is a huge plus when compared to the likes of Stansted.

If you look at Norwich's route network today, you have:
- KLM service to Amsterdam maintained over many years
- A Loganair base now with three jet aircraft flying Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Jersey, Manchester which I think I'm right in saying is larger than anything AirUK had at Norwich when taken together with KLM's Amsterdam service
- The Flybe/Eastern service to Aberdeen
- A based TUI 737 operating to Spain, Greece with a collection of destinations beyond what was ever imaginable 20-30 years ago
- A prosperous helicopter sector with two based operators (after CHC moved from North Denes)
- Air Livery paint shop
- KLM maintenance base
- FBO with SaxonAir

It's a balanced, all-round business with a reasonable amount in each segment. That level of diversity is something of which many larger airports dependent on a single carrier, or a single low-cost carrier, would be envious. Based on all of this, I don't see the comments above as anything other than an anti-Norwich raid, for which I don't know - and don't really want to know - the reasons. Suffice to say, the views are not shared.

[Expressflight]

.The big issue with Norwich is the much hated departure fee and the staff attitude. The latter is in my opinion caused by the security unit having boring periods followed by passengers who expect to glide through a small airport as if they were in a big one. Security staff tend to treat their job as if they were in Ben Gurion.(Israels premier airport) and the passengers are subjected to highly invasive searches not encountered at Heathrow or Gatwick.

(I last used Norwich 15 years ago)
You say "I last used Norwich 15 years ago" and then write scathingly about the security staff attitudes in the present tense?

I use NWI quite often and have never had a bad experience with security staff, I recently had a good meal in the restaurant due to a 2 hour Flybe delay, the Costa Coffee staff were friendly and the Duty Free quite acceptable. All in all it was a good experience as far as the airport was concerned. On return the baggage reclaim area needs a revamp but the bags arrived promptly - which is the main thing. Then straight out of the terminal to a waiting pre-booked taxi meant that I was home 25 miles away within an hour of disembarking the aircraft. As for Skytrax - that's about as reliable a source as the tabloid press.

[azzbo]

I've been a regular traveller through Norwich since before the days of the tiny AirUK plane posted earlier in the thread (was it Air Anglia?). I'm also a frequent traveller and have been through many small and large airports all over the world.

I'm not a huge fan of the development fee but my earliest memories are check in being near where you exit arrivals now. I also remember the departures lounge having the toilets and offices in the middle of it and the bar and cafe being where the toilets are now. More recently as stated the cafe (which was pretty bad) has been updated to a Costa (which is even worse in terms of quality, vile coffee). Lots of changes have taken place for the better over the years.

I cant say I agree with the thoughts on security as well, in thousands of times they have always been extremely polite, patient and friendly to me. In fact i've never had a negative experience with them. A few times I've been part of a group that required (disabled) assistance for one of our party and they've been so kind and helpful in those times, far more so than the staff at Schiphol. I suspect the issue with people treated badly by them is said people being rude to security. I've never had to wait out in the cold for ages to clear customs. I've never had to wait for more than about 5 minutes for baggage to arrive.

It's not perfect, more destinations would be nice (although with KLM / Skyteam the connection possibilities are fantastic), sometimes I do use Stansted instead but for the catchment area we're lucky to have it.

[BAladdy]

Flybe have removed from sale there flights to ABZ from 24th October.

[Cozy F]

Is that Flybe departed from NWI completely then? :sad:

[BAladdy]

Is that Flybe departed from NWI completely then? :sad:
yes it will be,

[tommynwi]

TUI will be operating weekly flights to Antalya next summer on Saturdays. Also Dalaman will be operated twice a week with new flights on Thursdays.

[NickBarnes]

TUI will be operating weekly flights to Antalya next summer on Saturdays. Also Dalaman will be operated twice a week with new flights on Thursdays.

Good news indeed, looks to be other carrier on website for these rather than the based Aircraft, presume freebird most likely

[tommynwi]

My guess too would be freebird for the Turkish flights. Are we any closer to getting a replacement on the Alicante and Malaga routes, as this will be the last week flybe operate out of Norwich.

[MDS]

Loganair base closing January 3rd 2020.

NWI-MAN will be terminated and NWI-NQY will not start in the summer as previously planned.