Blackpool-2

[davidjohnson6]

Balfour in sale talks over airport future - Blackpool Gazette (http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/transport/balfour-in-sale-talks-over-airport-future-1-8433734)

[Ernest Lanc's]

Coun Tony Williams, leader of the Conservative Group on Blackpool Council said: “I believe that a sale will be announced soon. There have been a few expressions of interest.

Read more at: Balfour in sale talks over airport future - Blackpool Gazette (http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/transport/balfour-in-sale-talks-over-airport-future-1-8433734)

A while since I posted this thread, was shocked to find out CityWing have gone bust

[litefoot1]

Airline Citywing 'never made a penny from Blackpool' - Blackpool Gazette (http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/our-region/blackpool/airline-citywing-never-made-a-penny-from-blackpool-1-8481921)

[Ernest Lanc's]

The Czech-based airline operated flights between Blackpool and Ronaldsway with Citywing acting merely as a ticket seller. It was forced to pull out at short notice following the intervention of the Civil Aviation Authority after an incident during Storm Doris.

Read more at: AIR ambulance called to Retford crash as car ends up in ditch - Retford Trader and Guardian (http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/our-region/blackpool/airline-citywing-never-made-a-penny-from-blackpool-1-848192)

More to this than meets the eye - So Citywing was just like Ticketmaster??

They do say they never made a penny from Blackpool. they kept the route open for people of the IoM.

[TSR2]

Read more at: AIR ambulance called to Retford crash as car ends up in ditch - Retford Trader and Guardian


What has this 10 year old report to do with the Citywing discussion. Am I missing something?

[Sandgrown]

No, it's just Ernest losing the plot...!


Reckon another operator will soon fill Citywing's shoes.


See if I'm wrong.


S http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif

[Ernest Lanc's]

What has this 10 year old report to do with the Citywing discussion. Am I missing something?




No, it's just Ernest losing the plot...!


Reckon another operator will soon fill Citywing's shoes.

TSR2 and Sandgrown.

No I am not losing the plot - I have never seen that link before, the link I posted had to do with the topic.

No you are not missing anything TSR2, I am just as gobsmacked as you. Links can change that's the only explanation I can give.

Like who Sandgrown - Flybe? 'Loganair' did not stay long, did they?

[emitex]

Progress...?

Airport boss still chasing new airline - Blackpool Gazette (http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/transport/airport-boss-still-chasing-new-airline-1-8552691)

[horatio_b]

From Save Blackpool Airport group, sale announcement expected from BB this week:

https://twitter.com/saveblackpoolap

[litefoot1]

Airport group calls for aviation pledge - Blackpool Gazette (http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/business/airport-group-calls-for-aviation-pledge-1-8641951)

[litefoot1]

Council buys land at airport for £600k - Blackpool Gazette (http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/council-buys-land-at-airport-for-600k-1-8733100)

[John R81]

Financial Times, 13/9/17



Balfour is selling its 95 per cent share back toBlackpool Council for £4.25m. Balfour said this was in line with itsstrategy of simplifying its portfolio of assets.

[EastMids]

https://www.blackpool.gov.uk/News/2017/September/Blackpool-Council-buys-back-Blackpool-Airport-site.aspx

[Ernest Lanc's]

However, falling passenger numbers and a legal dispute with operator Jet2 over the opening hours of the airport led to the site falling into administration in 2014.

Load of rubbish. Passenger numbers was not falling. In fact Jet2 was expanding their routes.

Reading various reports it seems that more land will be sold to the Enterprise Zone, with little chance of large passenger jets flying from Blackpool again.

Blackpool Airport returns to public ownership after 13 years as Balfour Beatty sells stake (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/09/13/blackpool-airport-returns-public-ownership-13-years-balfour/)

“People can be confident that we have the airport’s best interests at heart, we will retain the current operating staff as well as exploring any potential opportunities for private companies with aviation interests to invest in the company so that it can grow in the future but this is not about trying to bring jumbo jets back to the airport anytime soon.”

"Anytime soon" Interesting choice of words.

https://www.blackpool.gov.uk/News/2017/September/Blackpool-Council-buys-back-Blackpool-Airport-site.aspx

[litefoot1]

Load of rubbish. Passenger numbers was not falling. In fact Jet2 was expanding their routes.

Reading various reports it seems that more land will be sold to the Enterprise Zone, with little chance of large passenger jets flying from Blackpool again.

Blackpool Airport returns to public ownership after 13 years as Balfour Beatty sells stake (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/09/13/blackpool-airport-returns-public-ownership-13-years-balfour/)


"Anytime soon" Interesting choice of words.

https://www.blackpool.gov.uk/News/2017/September/Blackpool-Council-buys-back-Blackpool-Airport-site.aspx

They've got a better chance without Balfour Beatty surely.

[Ernest Lanc's]

They've got a better chance without Balfour Beatty surely.

If so the council are playing it down. Anything was better than BB.

This begs the question why did the council not make an offer when BB were desperate to sell the airport (they say) was making a loss?

The council waits until the airport albeit without large jets, is in profit again.

They could have negotiated a new deal with Jet2 - It would take time before any operator trusted Blackpool again.

[dada]

HELLO ernest nice to see you back on. this whole blk downfall is nothing short of a travesty, but that's it for the airport, itll never be anything more than it is now - probably less. i admire all who hope for better things but it's pointless:ugh:

[IB4138]

Remember that BB allowed the demolition of the passenger terminal, so a lot of dosh would have to be found to build and equip a new one for commercial passenger flights to return.

[litefoot1]

Remember that BB allowed the demolition of the passenger terminal, so a lot of dosh would have to be found to build and equip a new one for commercial passenger flights to return.

Well just getting the Isle of Man flights back would be a start. A lot less dosh required for those.

[Ernest Lanc's]

HELLO ernest nice to see you back on. this whole blk downfall is nothing short of a travesty, but that's it for the airport, itll never be anything more than it is now - probably less. i admire all who hope for better things but it's pointless:ugh:
Thank's I do pop on from time to time dada,

I tend to agree - I think BLK is now a GA and will stay that way. the council will sell more land for the enterprise zone.

I would have thought the Dart Group might have bought Blackpool Airport at the time BB were desperate to sell.

They could have used the airport for other than passenger flights and no landing fees for Jet2.

[litefoot1]

Long term strategy needed for Blackpool Airport - Blackpool Gazette (http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/transport/long-term-strategy-needed-for-blackpool-airport-1-8751907)

[Harry Wayfarers]

Long term strategy needed for Blackpool Airport - Blackpool Gazette (http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/transport/long-term-strategy-needed-for-blackpool-airport-1-8751907)

Has Blackpool ever accommodated Jumbo (B747) Jets?

[Rutan16]

A Laker DC10 visited in another universe

[Ernest Lanc's]

Has Blackpool ever accommodated Jumbo (B747) Jets?

No - The runway is long enough, but no way there would have been enough room to taxi a 747 into position. That's was what I have been told.

By "Jumbo" in the article it was a poor choice or words for B737-300 and 800. B757-200 or A320.

[LTNman]

Losing the terminal was a game changer. Cost ££ to build, cost £ to knock down and would cost £££ to replace like for like. It was never that big so a circus tent had to be attached to it a few years back.

The council must have given BB planing permission to knock the terminal down but it was knocked down in haste. As soon as Jet2 had been forced out the bulldozers moved in. Why the urgency? In Blackpool when a building is abandoned it usually stays empty for years before being demolished. Is the land still empty or was it built on straight away?

It seemed at the time that the terminal was destroyed to make sure no meaningful passenger operation could return even if better terms could have been negotiated.

Why did the council not buy the runway? Seems a strange statement to make about protecting the airport when they did not buy the runway.

[canberra97]

I believe the council are building a college on the site of the former terminal or that was the plan.

[SWBKCB]

https://lancashireenergyhq.blackpool.ac.uk/

LTNman - see link. Presumably the council took a view that this would contribute more to the local economy. Think there was also plans to build a smaller terminal nearer the runway?

Also, what makes you think the runway isn't included in the deal? I've not seen anything on this.

[IB4138]

There is a bit of confusion as the Council keep showing the Airport Enterprize Zone on maps, which the runways are not part of.

[milhouse999]

Has Blackpool ever accommodated Jumbo (B747) Jets?

Blackpool could not handle containerised baggage - a 767 once flew in (1990s) and they had to borrow kit from MAN.

[canberra97]

If the airport didn't have the appropriate kit to handle containerised baggage why did they have to borrow equipment from Manchester Airport for what I presume was a one off flight.

Why did the Boeing 767 visit Blackpool in the first place knowing that the airport didn't have the equipment to handle containerised baggage?

What airline was it and when did this occur and for what reason, if you have any details I would appreciate you posting more.

[newaviator]

I was working at Blackpool Airport in the 1990's and the 767 Private (one off special - was it not Brunei or Saudi registered ? but never made it due weather possibly diverted to Manchester) , the USAF Lockheed C141 Starlifter that was supposed to be coming in but went elsewhere in the end with a military band on board or the likes . A US Navy P3 Orion overnighted for a few days.


Previous biggest types to have been in that I've seen on the tarmac 707 , 757 , 737 , 727 (US Reg Private ) , 1-11 , 146 , DC-9 to name a few and a Shorts Belfast on a newspaper flight over the years , when the Vanguards were operating at weekends etc. Possibly First Choice 767 in once but can't confirm didn't see it myself as it could have been a frame change instead of a 757 or A320 on series of IT flights on that occasion my shifts didn't coincide unfortunately but heard rumour of it !! Also Braathens (Norway) looked at bringing one in on the annual dance festival charters at Easter that ran for years but used 737's instead

The fore runner of Travelcitydirect when less well known and local based , also planned a series of Blackpool - Florida IT flights using a 757 with a fuel stop at Shannon but that never happened....


Rutan16 .......had Laker 1-11's in once due to a Fire Department strike at Manchester if I recollect , but I didn't work at the airport at that time but remember it being in the local press.


:ok:

[Ernest Lanc's]

There is a bit of confusion as the Council keep showing the Airport Enterprize Zone on maps, which the runways are not part of.

The council bought the airport, without runways there would be no airport.

[emitex]

Latest news;
https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/business/start-up-airline-in-bid-to-fly-from-blackpool-1-9153651

[fjencl]

I see its 11 days time that the flyica web site goes live.

[sellbydate]

I see their Local Enterprise Partnership pledged £28.8m yesterday to develop the business park side of the site. No mention at all of any of that actually going into the airfield-related infrastructures, as an operational airport. Following the re-aquisition by the local authority last year, great to see investment being courted, but it's got nothing to do with running it as an airport and everythign to do with commercial property development.

[horatio_b]

Some of the money will no doubt be used to cover the cost of building new hangars to replace those alongside Squires Gate Lane, together with a new control tower closer to the main runway.

[sixchannel]

Some of the money will no doubt be used to cover the cost of building new hangars to replace those alongside Squires Gate Lane, together with a new control tower closer to the main runway.
Don't hold your breath!
Intercity Airways would be a lovely idea but if no-one buys tickets - -.
An ACMI airline?
A nice pipe dream though.

[EIFFS]

Well at least they are talking about starting with a SAAB 340 not an Airbus 340 like some wannabe and on routes that are zero threat to any other operator.

[sixchannel]

I see its 11 days time that the flyica web site goes live.
Can I stop holding my breath yet?
No active website , no aircraft, no routes - just a 19 yr olds daydream that the Press pumped up.
Unless, of course, you can ' show me the money'

[sixchannel]

Can I stop holding my breath yet?
No active website , no aircraft, no routes - just a 19 yr olds daydream that the Press pumped up.
Unless, of course, you can ' show me the money'

Come on! Its the School holidays. Surely Bradley Gosney's parents have let him out to play now.

Next Blackpool Gazette story may well be about how Ryanair are going to turn the airport into their world wide Base.

[ETOPS]

I've had a 50 year connection with "Squires Gate" including currently basing my aircraft there. It's been sad to see the badly handled decline over the past few years but I was interested to see these latest plans.

https://www.flyer.co.uk/general-aviation-not-airlines-is-blackpools-future/

I'm not nostalgic for the olden days so welcome this type of vision - keeping an aviation facility here to serve the northwest of Lancashire seems a sensible idea.

[sixchannel]

Makes more sense that Flyica's pipe dream, which I now assume to be just that.

[sixchannel]

Come on! Its the School holidays. Surely Bradley Gosney's parents have let him out to play now.

Next Blackpool Gazette story may well be about how Ryanair are going to turn the airport into their world wide Base.

As it happens, the next story was that said Mr Gosney "britains youngest commercial pilot" is up before The Beak for lying about his medical records to the CAA.

[SWBKCB]

Airport bosses say this does not signal the possible return of commercial passsenger flights, but will boost growth at the airport which has been owned by Blackpool Council since 2017. Clive Coleman, director of Regional and City Airports Ltd, which operates Blackpool Airport on behalf of the council, said: “As of April 1 we will increase the declared category of the airport so it can take larger aircraft throughout the day. These will be corporate and chartered jets. It’s providing the airport with revenue and supporting the council’s growth plan towards it becoming self sustaining.”

£1m Blackpool Airport investment will bring bigger jets (https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/transport/ps1m-blackpool-airport-investment-will-bring-bigger-jets-2450339)

[Flying Hi]

Good day for it.
I think Jet2 pulled out, amongst other reasons possibly, that Blackpool CANNOT take the later series 737s
Whats changed then or just Council BS like Mr Godneys fake airline?

[wools]

I think you will find it relates to larger Exec aircraft such as Boeing BBJ etc.,which have a higher AUW but not runway length restricted.

[SWBKCB]

A petition signed by more than 8,000 people calling for Blackpool Airport to be reopened to commercial flights will go before town hall leaders on Monday.

The signatures have been collected by Blackpool South MP Scott Benton who pledged to support the return of commercial aviation as part of his 2019 General Election campaign.

https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/business/blackpool-airport-petition-go-councillors-2916006

[Flying Hi]

https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/business/blackpool-airport-petition-go-councillors-2916006
So, what "commercial' aircraft carrying decent payloads could operate off Blackpool's 1869 mtrs?
I'm thinking 737 etc rather than J41 / ATR2.
Did Jet2 pull out in 2014 because of no Pax or airport costs?

[BACsuperVC10]

So, what "commercial' aircraft carrying decent payloads could operate off Blackpool's 1869 mtrs?
I'm thinking 737 etc rather than J41 / ATR2.
Did Jet2 pull out in 2014 because of no Pax or airport costs?

i was to!d by a mate who lives in BLK and flew for BA, that BLK were making no money from the Jet2 deal

[Flying Hi]

i was to!d by a mate who lives in BLK and flew for BA, that BLK were making no money from the Jet2 deal
So BLK binned Jet2 without a fall back Plan apart from sell the land and build a huge Morrisons etc.?
Now, in a deep recession, they want to restart 'commercial' ops? Lack of joined up thinking?

[SWBKCB]

Some sort of terminal building would be nice.

A Manx2 scale IOM/BHD might work with minimal facilities, otherwise...

[EI-BUD]

i was to!d by a mate who lives in BLK and flew for BA, that BLK were making no money from the Jet2 deal
No news story here. The challenge was that the airport in needing to facilitate a based low cost airline they needed to be open from early morning until late night. Resulting in coverage of all services being in place all day long.

Contrast to Knock airport who don't have a based airline and usually have a window of flying say 0900 to 1700 , with a bit later on some days, but not before 0800 and not later than 2000.

Even if the airport got strong fees from Jet2 (I don't know what there commercial terms were), they simply didn't have enough volume to cover costs. Volume is needed to support concessions and retailers and car parks which in many airports contribute over 50% of all income...
​​​​​

[Thad Jarvis]

1900m is comfortably suitable for European operations using 319/20’s. RYR have NG’s with short field kit too. There’s plenty of suitable aircraft if demand calls for it. I doubt Jet2 made much if any money however I gather they didn’t pay too many bills either.

[LTNman]

The airport always seemed to be underfunded with its circus tent terminal extension. For a while there was demand there but not the population to sustain the operation that allowed the airport to make money. For anyone living east or south of Preston, Manchester was always going to be first choice.

[Flying Hi]

The airport always seemed to be underfunded with its circus tent terminal extension. For a while there was demand there but not the population to sustain the operation that allowed the airport to make money. For anyone living east or south of Preston, Manchester was always going to be first choice.
So what's changed now to make the Council think it'll work now? Political Job Promise Fakery?

[SWBKCB]

The council don't - they aren't interested, haven't got the money. Being pushed by a local MP who doesn't have a budget to pay for anything.

[Flying Hi]

The council don't - they aren't interested, haven't got the money. Being pushed by a local MP who doesn't have a budget to pay for anything.
To use an airport term - push back 🥴
Nodding dog Council? We have much family on the Fylde who vote both sides of political spectrum who consider them "Chocolate Fireguards". 😀

[OC37]

Some sort of terminal building would be nice.

A Manx2 scale IOM/BHD might work with minimal facilities, otherwise...
Exactly, what success Manx2/CityLink had was because they were operating -20 seaters, were there a market for SF340's out of BLK then why have the mob just up the way operating some under utilised Lithuanian SF340's not considered operating some W pattern flights thru the likes of DUB & BHD in to BLK with even an IOM service in between, particularly on the days when CAX has been closed of a weekly basis ... Because the market isn't there perhaps!

[BACsuperVC10]

No news story here. The challenge was that the airport in needing to facilitate a based low cost airline they needed to be open from early morning until late night. Resulting in coverage of all services being in place all day long.

Contrast to Knock airport who don't have a based airline and usually have a window of flying say 0900 to 1700 , with a bit later on some days, but not before 0800 and not later than 2000.

Even if the airport got strong fees from Jet2 (I don't know what there commercial terms were), they simply didn't have enough volume to cover costs. Volume is needed to support concessions and retailers and car parks which in many airports contribute over 50% of all income...
​​​​​

And at least for some time car parking was free.

[BACsuperVC10]

The airport always seemed to be underfunded with its circus tent terminal extension. For a while there was demand there but not the population to sustain the operation that allowed the airport to make money. For anyone living east or south of Preston, Manchester was always going to be first choice.

Not just Manchester , Liverpool draws too.

[BACsuperVC10]

Exactly, what success Manx2/CityLink had was because they were operating -20 seaters, were there a market for SF340's out of BLK then why have the mob just up the way operating some under utilised Lithuanian SF340's not considered operating some W pattern flights thru the likes of DUB & BHD in to BLK with even an IOM service in between, particularly on the days when CAX has been closed of a weekly basis ... Because the market isn't there perhaps!

I mean BLK has always had Irish Sea ops , I would have thought there was a greater demand from BLK than CAX for this. Any passenger who wasn't to do a short hop such as this from North Lance area, they must feel it a right pain to go south through loads of traffic to do this. I think years ago, the Walker Group had influence on the Irish Sea ops and were behind Spacegrand.

[Flying Hi]

Liverpool draws too.

You find them all over the sand dunes at Crosby after a Saturday night. 🥴
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Love my Scouse friends really.

[OC37]

I mean BLK has always had Irish Sea ops , I would have thought there was a greater demand from BLK than CAX for this. Any passenger who wasn't to do a short hop such as this from North Lance area, they must feel it a right pain to go south through loads of traffic to do this. I think years ago, the Walker Group had influence on the Irish Sea ops and were behind Spacegrand.

Others have made reference to the alternative of multi-termal multi-runway congested MAN when LPL has Irish sea operations and compared to MAN is quite a pleasant experience, by comparison CAX doesn't have any reasonable local (ish) alternatives, sure BLK/IOM to name but one is a route steeped in history but to propose starting it off with 30+ seaters for an operation that doesn't have a prosperous route network to support such a risk!

The guy trying to start a SF340 operation out of Waterford springs to mind, boasted of umpteen years experience in the airline industry but didn't specify in what capacity for him then to start selling tickets without a licence and not to be heard of since.

[BACsuperVC10]

You find them all over the sand dunes at Crosby after a Saturday night. 🥴
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Love my Scouse friends really.

Sorry I don't get that ??!

[lplsprog]

Draws on the beach at Crosby!! He means Knickers:D

[BACsuperVC10]

Draws on the beach at Crosby!! He means Knickers:D

ok ​​​:confused:

[LTNman]

Traditionally Blackpool lived on the IOM route but even that route got through a list of airlines flying a range of aircraft sizes. None survived. My first flight was on a BIA Handley Page Herald. I can remember, Citywing, Spacegrand, British Northwest Airlines and Manx but there were other.

The £10 development fee paid for the terminal to be knocked down.

[BACsuperVC10]

Traditionally Blackpool lived on the IOM route but even that route got through a list of airlines flying a range of aircraft sizes. None survived. My first flight was on a BIA Handley Page Herald. I can remember, Citywing, Spacegrand, British Northwest Airlines and Manx but there were other.

The £10 development fee paid for the terminal to be knocked down.

HP Herald ...wow remember that, I went on one from Lydd to Beavais and Lydd to Ostend with Janus Airways.

[horatio_b]

Hard to believe now, but I remember reading that in the 1960s the Blackpool-Isle of Man route was the second busiest in the world for number of departures on summer weekends.(The busiest was one out of New York) The Silver City fleet of 5 or 6 Dakotas worked a shuttle service taking off every 30 minutes on Summer Saturdays. Of course this was a time when flew had flown and holidays in Europe were very rare, so the Isle of Man must have seemed pretty exotic. I think it cost £2/10/0 (£2.50) for a day return flight.
In those days passengers were treated properly - as this vintage clip shows you could arrive by coach and walk straight onto the aircraft - no airport check-in or security in those days.

https://www.huntleyarchives.com/preview.asp?image=1092711&itemw=4&itemf=0002&itemstep=1&itemx=2

[LTNman]

BIA had a hangar at Blackpool in those days.

[BACsuperVC10]

Hard to believe now, but I remember reading that in the 1960s the Blackpool-Isle of Man route was the second busiest in the world for number of departures on summer weekends.(The busiest was one out of New York) The Silver City fleet of 5 or 6 Dakotas worked a shuttle service taking off every 30 minutes on Summer Saturdays. Of course this was a time when flew had flown and holidays in Europe were very rare, so the Isle of Man must have seemed pretty exotic. I think it cost £2/10/0 (£2.50) for a day return flight.
In those days passengers were treated properly - as this vintage clip shows you could arrive by coach and walk straight onto the aircraft - no airport check-in or security in those days.

https://www.huntleyarchives.com/preview.asp?image=1092711&itemw=4&itemf=0002&itemstep=1&itemx=2

How things have changed !