Easyjet desperate for pilots?

[banjodrone]

So my old man says he heard on the radio this morning that Easyjet are so desperate for pilots that they are willing to take on anyone who's started training, even at the private level and pay for the remainder of it, anyone who holds any sort of ICAO qualifications and pay for their conversion / training / hour building etc. So the low hour FAA 250 hour person can apply and they will pay for their conversion to EASA credentials. This sounds highly unlikely to me and I can't find any information anywhere to back it up. He says I'm being negative lol......but I think I'm being realistic. I haven't flown since leaving Fresno in 2010 but I do have my ear to the ground on aviation matters. Has anyone heard anything similar?

[darkroomsource]

https://easyjet.taleo.net/careersection/2/jobdetail.ftl?job=06917&tz=GMT%2B01%3A00

I don't think they're that desperate yet

[BehindBlueEyes]

EasyJet might not be be but Ryanair certainly are!

[banjodrone]

Ryanair are accepting low hour ICAO commercial pilots or people at the private level to continue training? I know they were accepting experienced, preferably type rated ones in excess of 1500 hours to get a 1 year validation by the Irish authority if they held an ATP, but the former seems unlikely.

[byrondaf]

Maybe FO and Command positions, but at the moment cadet recruitment is at a standstill. I finished at CTC/L3/(whatever rubbish they're calling it these days) recently and we've been told we wont be getting an EZY interview until December to start TR sometime around May 2018.

The hold 'pool' is quickly turning into an ocean. CTC is not what it says on the tin. Should've known better.

If I could do it all again I'd pick the modular route and save half the money. As above, no idea about FO/Command. Good luck!

That's probably because BA haven't recruited any of our FO's this year, so CTC's sausage factory has come to a standstill. Entirely different 12-18 months ago and likely to be another mad rush to recruit when the BA guys eventually move over. Pretty desperate for Captains at some bases though.

Regards to CTC not being what it says on the tin, that's not really true is it. You'll end up with an airline just you might have to be a bit more patient, your time will come and you won't have to do a couple years at another airline to get in. That's if easyJet is where you want to end up.

When i graduated I was told we wouldn't get a type rating with easyJet for about 8-9months, 6 weeks later they were giving us start dates for the end of the month...it changes very quickly in pilot recruitment as you will find out! Best of luck.

[foliot-pilot]

Thanks byrondaf. Maybe you're right about the tin. But it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth when you rock up to an interview with people who have taken the modular route and spent half the cash. But you're right. I know what I signed up for. But I'm sure you'd feel the same in my shoes.

[Thegreenmachine]

Maybe FO and Command positions, but at the moment cadet recruitment is at a standstill. I finished at CTC/L3/(whatever rubbish they're calling it these days) recently and we've been told we wont be getting an EZY interview until December to start TR sometime around May 2018.

The hold 'pool' is quickly turning into an ocean. CTC is not what it says on the tin. Should've known better.

If I could do it all again I'd pick the modular route and save half the money. As above, no idea about FO/Command. Good luck!

Maybe ctc/L3 is not ezy's preferred place to recruit cadets anymore?

[Reverserbucket]

CTC is not what it says on the tin
Or L3 CTS now, but how do you mean?
Maybe ctc/L3 is not ezy's preferred place to recruit cadets anymore?
Has L3 CTS gone the same way Oxford did after CAE bought them? Did something similar happen with Flybe recruitment through L3/CTC recently?

[momo95]

Whilst not wishing to fuel unfounded speculation, my university started an airline focused degree course and were looking to partner with a flight school, after inspecting and having meetings with ctc i was told they were not impressed at all. They wouldn't go into specifics with me but I could sense a very negative reaction from whatever dealings they had with them.

Another thing is my former airline with whom I had an office based role were looking to relaunch their cadet programme, they looked at ctc, and they had just the same negative reaction after inspections and meetings. Of course I wasn't gonna be told what was so wrong ...

[PA28161]

The shortage of pilots, if there really is a shortage, is at the Captain/FO level and not at cadet level.
Most of the negative stuff discussed here concerning CTC (L3 as it is now) is factual

[MaverickPrime]

Can you, or anyone else, elaborate on the 'negative stuff' at CTC/L3?

[banjodrone]

I guess every dog has its day and just maybe some of the more "reputable" schools have had theirs. In almost every successful organisation you'll find that after a peak, things quietly ramp down as complacency sets in and they live off their reputation, then by the time they've figured out what's happening they usually pay some expensive audit firm to fix things but by then it's sometimes too late.

[Sullysark]

CTC have had their day. And the worst part is, those many hundreds there will now suffer at the end of their training.

Easyjet are currently recruiting they're taking cadets from FTE. Next month another bunch join and I even think CAE are in on the act. CTC's in bed love affair with Easyjet appears to be over. A certain number will still join, obviously. But the exclusive nature seems to have closed.

CTC were a great organisation a few years ago, unfortunately for them its went down hill quite rapidly. Expanded far too quickly and became a sausage factory and not a flight school and the negative vibe is getting about now in the industry.

[Byrne11]

Has L3 CTS gone the same way Oxford did after CAE bought them? Did something similar happen with Flybe recruitment through L3/CTC recently?[/QUOTE]

EZY have been recruiting from other flight schools, taking self integrated cadets as recently as this week. The same flight school that has the Flybe MPL scheme currently. CAE have an EZY programme as well.

[Chris the Robot]

Interesting how these things change, I remember a few years back FTE seemed to be getting a tough time on here and CTC were very strong. 18 months ago, would anyone have predicted the current situation?

Perhaps it's the case that when commencing training you don't just need to think about what the state of the industry will be in 18 months time but what the state of your training school will be too? Not what you'd want after spending £100k.

[Byrne11]

One had a rebrand and change of emphasis, one changed management.

[Huggies_23]

Surely the rather substantial drive by easyJet at the moment to get cadets on board through their MPL with two major flight schools, which are offered with conditional contracts of employment upon completion of training, is a decent indication that easyJet in particular are a safe bet for potential cadets...

[gbotley]

Adding my two cents;

Anyone considering training with any FTO should always do their research regardless and thus not choose based on one's glossy brochures. As a trainee at the so called "sausage factory" come L3 giant, I would say it's' little more than growing pains off the back of changes at the Lufthansa owned facility in Arizona. As those in the industry well know, EASA/CAA admin takes time and I suppose Florida can't come online soon enough.

In respect of the negative comments on here; yes.. I do worry as a Whitetailer as the state of the industry and that's coming from someone soon to leave NZ for the final few bits of training. In honesty though I see this extending far beyond L3 and more towards attitudes of airlines themselves. They seem to be gradually moving away from integrated whitetail-esque courses and to MPL etc. This shouldn't be new news to anybody, BUT, where easyJet's relationship with L3 and other schools appears to be changing is the point at which they come on board with a cadet. Those familiar with this scheme will notice easyJet is 'tagging' cadets from the get go and, I imagine, are therefore able to improve their forward planning in the sense they can go "Right, we have x amount of MPL coming on line on this date and x amount of Route 3's to join them this many weeks after". L3 is certainly full of tagged cadets at the moment with various coloured lanyards around the place.

The growing pains will subside in time, but I think it's more down to the route you take to the carrier really. If I were to start a course today I would seriously question the Whitetail investment especially since the largest recruiter at one specific school has slowed recruitment from the pool - perhaps down to the reasoning I gave above. However, you have to consider that British Airways have yet to actually take the majority of their DEP recruits from the orange bus company and when they do I imagine the industry will once again be asking for pilots. Take this and easyJet's future part-acquisition of AirBerlin into account and the future arrival of A321 Neos and I can see recruitment continuing down the road.

Do the research, consider your options, speak with people in training organisations as much as their marketing people and make an informed decision. Airline loyalty with flight schools can come and go as quickly their loyalty with ground handling agents to be honest. In fact, many airlines now recruit directly anyhow, so irrespective of school you'll be against the wider market anyway. The placement pools at certain schools are great value-adds, but are by no means the only routes in to carriers so don't be blind to that.

All the best

[Sullysark]

Welcome to the debate Mr CTC or L3 Airline Training Academy. Great blog.

Florida certainly cant come quick enough, cadets might be allowed to leave the UK. Instead of doing their entire flight training in Bournemouth which is now happening, that is not growing pains sir. That is mismanagement.

The industry needs pilots, did FR not mention roughly in the region of 600 within 10 months and currently cancelling 50 flights per day. Because one flight school is failing to get their cadets jobs as quickly as it once did, doesn't necessary mean the industry is going through a mini melt down. The fact two other flight schools are sending integrated cadets to Easyjet at the minute would support my statement, one user has actually suggested FTE cadets joined this week! What is more then likely responsible for EZY recruitment of CTC cadets is more in line with the soon to be death of flexi crew I'm not sure when it finally disappears. The comparison between CAE/L3 is clear to see and would be a fairly accurate comment to make.

I'm sure L3/CTC will find another partner airline, possible Wizzair or Jet2 to help their recruitment drive. Having hundreds of cadets unemployed would not look good.

[gbotley]

Welcome to the debate Mr CTC or L3 Airline Training Academy. Great blog.

In the context of this subject I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to take that. Genuine, or sarcasm?

In any case, I will not deny the change to L3 is creating complexities - some inherited might I add - but I'll certainly not be libellous for the benefit of the odd few. I've been nothing but honest about my own personal experiences throughout my online presence - which to put right the odd false claim is not done through financial reward by the academy in the slightest. My previous statement on the scheme you choose thus remain valid.

Sullysark, you may well be aware of these points but I'll post them here anyway to satisfy curiosities of those not so much in the know.

We’ve had meetings about it the hiccups with operations in Arizona. It's your standard stuff really, aircraft, climate and recently -- as being experienced everywhere -- airlines offering roles to experienced instructors. It would appear as though the DA40s don't achieve the performance otherwise claimed by manuals given the very hot summer which caused delays; many of which now rectified with amendments to SOPs for the fleet! In any case, the partnership behind the very operation in Arizona is to cease in 2018. Florida, i'm told, is currently undergoing approval for EASA and will replace it as the US base given L3 own it. The DA40 fleet is to be split between other sites. Single engine at Bournemouth is new, but at the aforementioned meeting we were told a future plan of CTC Aviation anyway. As far as the New Zealand operation is concerned I can't fault it it's the schools flagship. A second airfield is to become operational here in the next few months - as is public knowledge given L3's recruitment drive for instructors and staff, see L3cts.com - using some relocated DA20s or the incoming DA40s which is yet to be made clear. The delays this year on the NZ front, at least that i've experienced, are related to the very wet spring. For example, this September has been one of the worst for rainfall and convective activity for quite some time and as such there is only one course in the advanced phase of training. VFR has been practically impossible, but it's an annual thing this time of year according to instructors and now we're heading into October flying is picking up again. To be honest, it's not dissimilar to UK weather at times as far as flying would go and I feel it a better location given our eventual flying environment by comparison to Arizona.

Now I appreciate this was hugely off-topic but PPRune seldom provides the wider picture, especially to aspiring pilots. Back to the main point though, regardless of which FTO you enter from (as I know people from OAA and L3 in this position) it would appear the placement delays are linked to type-rating start dates. While you might land a job with the carrier today you might not start your TR until the spring. This is how I remember it being back when I started university. Cyclical.

[Sullysark]

Take it whatever way you wish, you're essentially a marketing tool. That however is not personal against you, having never met you. It's simply the reality, can you confirm or deny cadets may be encouraged to document their progress through various forms of social media.

Complexities? It's a rerun of the Oxford/CAE buyout.
'Odd hiccup' could you clarify how long the fleet was grounded due to mechanical issues then was it weeks, days or even months. Weather is a valid reason not to fly, of course. It seems you know alot about L3, so I will delve a bit deeper. It may of been a long term plan, one day. But just how immediate was the move to Bournemouth? From what i've heard, it was last minute with a staff member getting emotional. (As I know people in L3, in this position)

Placement delays? Don't you mean type rating delays, are due to that reason. You can still recruit cadets, which other FTO's are and begin type rating late winter. This question was on EZY. As a current cadet pointed out, no interviews until December at L3. Another has said EZY recruited this week from an FTO. Do you not believe the end of Flexicrew, plays a roll in the delay of L3 Cadets going to Easyjet at present.

[foliot-pilot]

The fact two other flight schools are sending integrated cadets to Easyjet at the minute would support my statement, one user has actually suggested FTE cadets joined this week!

I can confirm this, four of my friends at FTE Jerez who finished MCC/JOC after me went for an easy interview last week, heard back a day later for a January start. I'm currently in the hold pool at CTC L3 and easyJet interviews aren't on the table at the moment.

[foliot-pilot]

In the context of this subject I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to take that. Genuine, or sarcasm?


And Pilot George, your blog is really useful (genuine). I certainly read lots of similar blogs to yours before I started at CTC and they were a real help. Keep it up.

Just pray that Tom the pilot doesn't get hold of you.

[gbotley]

Just pray that Tom the pilot doesn't get hold of you.

That has already happened, not that it really matters! It is odd the L3 interviews are being held up mind you!

[Byrne11]

I can confirm this, four of my friends at FTE Jerez who finished MCC/JOC after me went for an easy interview last week, heard back a day later for a January start. I'm currently in the hold pool at CTC L3 and easyJet interviews aren't on the table at the moment.

How many are in the hold pool? Surely its just growing monthly now by 30-40, meaning you're not only waiting months for a type rating, but months for an interview.

EZY took a good large amount from FTE, all starting in January (I believe) and will be returning again.

[Byrne11]

Those days are gone, CTC cadets are now being told there is no interview slots now as its been evident on this thread with two ex CTC students coming forward..
They're also waiting considerably longer for a type rating it would appear, yet having an earlier interview. Times have certainly changed, it would appear.

[gbotley]

As I'm aware. Yet recruitment at the same school via Route 1, 2 and 3 remains as prevalent as ever. There's the confusion to be truthful. If the airline truly was changing its' stance and opinion on L3 then surely you would see the entire portfolio alter? Just got to sit this out and see what happens. I never expected an easy ride anyway and always planned to apply to third-party carriers too. :-) Time will tell. Let's not forget this forum is full of rumours half the time.

[foliot-pilot]

How many are in the hold pool?

Currently about 70. How do I know? Got my seniority number last week and have added the number of cadets that finished after me to that.

[Reverserbucket]

Originally posted by gbotley
It would appear as though the DA40s don't achieve the performance otherwise claimed by manuals for such weather. This caused delays; many of which now rectified with amendments to SOPs for the fleet...Other training facilities use DA40's in the Phoenix area without significant temperature related issues - is this genuinely weather related, maintenance or management? I appreciate that you are in NZ but is this what your classmates have been told? That said, it has been a particularly warm summer.

Originally posted by gbotley
In any case, the partnership behind the very operation in Arizona is to cease in 2018. Florida, i'm told, is currently undergoing approval for EASA and will replace it as the US base.As far as weather is concerned, Florida is in fact poorer than the SW USA particularly for coastal airfields; the incidence of CB activity, high winds and the occasional hurricane makes ab-initio training difficult for a large part of the year. The geography is largely featureless leading to benign and repetitive navigation exercises and, as with Arizona, there is a high concentration of other traffic.

Look at the history of European commercial flight training conducted by large schools over the past 20 odd years and you'll see there's a reason why they left Florida for...well, Arizona.

[MaverickPrime]

Just pray that Tom the pilot doesn't get hold of you.

Who is Tom the pilot and what is the deal with him if you dont mind me asking? Just putting two and two together here....

[foliot-pilot]

I would describe him as the Banksy of the trainee pilot world. Follow him on Instagram and see for yourself.

'tomthe.pilot'

[Byrne11]

A lot of what he mentions, has a lot of truth to it. And it's hilarious.

[Drussjnr]

Tom the Pilot..... So much truth and is hilarious. Also, L3 moving ops to Florida is just weird, Arizona is a stable weather environment with no chance of a Cat 5 hurricane blowing through a couple of times a year. Also, using NZ as "fair weather" training is just bonkers, it's just a UK climate. Someone needs to help them out a bit with training locations....

[flyingintheclouds]

Could the lack of eJ interviews be because they are using the MPL programme to effectively project going forward the pilots they need?

[Sullysark]

I think that is certainly the case for cadets at CTC. They're being frozen out due to the MPL route. EZY could choose CTC to do 90% of their MPL students and use another FTO for ATPL students which appears to have been FTE. TR in Amsterdam in a few months. I do believe the closure of flexi crew plays a very large role as well, remember at CTC you were still employed with CTC but basically working as a contractor for EZY.

Interesting how times change as another member posted. Swings and roundabouts.

Maybe EZY had an issue with some of the whitetail cadets? in terms of standards, who knows.

[gbotley]

Sullyarks,

Can you confirm or deny cadets may be encouraged to document their progress through various forms of social media.

Despite how it often seems; we're not - funnily enough. Most people who do write blogs, make vlogs etc do it as their proud to be on their journey they're on.

But just how immediate was the move to Bournemouth? From what i've heard, it was last minute with a staff member getting emotional. (As I know people in L3, in this position)

The last post I made is the extent of my knowledge of the management decisions in respect of Bournemouth. I'll not share anymore simply as it would be speculation. I do know that Arizona, Phoenix in particular, has had a very warm summer this year and some days where turbulence at altitude would prevent flight operations. So AZ was compounded by multiple things. This Florida position, namely in Sandford, is already operational under Aerosim L3's other flight school subsidiary since brought under the "L3 CTS" banner. But we'll have to see how it fairs with hurricanes going forwards eh!

Do you not believe the end of Flexicrew, plays a roll in the delay of L3 Cadets going to Easyjet at present.

A fair few cadets were getting mainland Europe. Flexicrew is on the way out, yes, but I've no idea if this is a reason for anything slowing. I'm not at that stage of training yet so can't really comment. The growth of MPL is a concern from a Whitetail standpoint; but most of that growth is happening behind my specific course in new groups starting training a few months after me. I would question a Whitetail investment today; if I failed to get Routes 1, 2 or 3.

[Sullysark]

Well, thats a lie. #CTCTAKEOVER I'll say no more.

It's strange, I've never come across a CAE blog, nor a FTE blog, nor an Aeros blog, nor an Atlantic Flight Training blog. It's continuously been L3. I'm sure you're proud, having been on that journey myself and now at an airline, I quickly realised I'm not any different then the 500 people to do the course before me or the 500 who will do it after. It's a job, I don't see Lawyers making blogs or Vlogs.

'It would simply be speculation' - Small plane crash lands in Goodyear field - 3TV | CBS 5 (http://www.azfamily.com/story/35198706/small-plane-crash-lands-in-goodyear-field) Are you sure it was just weather related now with a touch of wake turbulence? Or maybe mechanical... if an aircraft manages to fall out of the sky.. who knows, its all speculation after all.

I'm aware of the flight school, it was formally Delta's many years ago. As another user pointed out (Reverserbucket), flight schools left that area due to the serious weather issues.
I wonder why they left Arizona and done the complete opposite. Any ideas?

'The odd L3 interview' has turned into 'slowing' within a few posts. It's all speculation. Either way what we do know is if you're with L3 you're currently waiting a long period to get an Easyjet interview, and even longer to get type rated. Think carefully, before you have a change of heart a few posts down and start back tracking on answers.

[planesandthings]

It's been interesting to see the change over the last year of whitetail cadets posting Instagram photos of AQC passes and then very soon after job offers and TR training to now many drying up after AQC with the odd photo of some entry level airside aviation jobs, hardly 'living the dream'. I can't imagine it is a comfortable place to be in considering the looming repayments in the distance for those without bank of mum and dad, poor souls.
I see some who are struggling to get jobs even have the honour of working for L3 as "Airline Pilot Careers Advisors", though I notice this is a sales position with targets rather than based on the honesty of those cadet's experience, can't be easy selling the dream you're not living yet.

L3 sure appears to be the place of choice to be on a tagged scheme and I'd go with them on a heartbeat for that, but for those enrolling on whitetail the odds are turning, it seems not a fortnight goes by when another CP starts. I wonder how much these new people know about the hold pools filling up, I have friends who have resigned themselves since April to wait an entire year for an interview with a partner or otherwise have to compete against modular cadets, many now asking "What did I pay extra for."

Seeing as L3 has rebranded now, maybe the new brochures can be redesigned to spell out the risks of whitetail a bit clearer, it's only fair rather than the smoke and mirrors "Training Sponsorship", ultimately on whitetail you are a paying customer, no scholar.

In the last year I have been totally put off whitetail and have advised others to consider the same as I can foresee the hold pool turning into a hold ocean as tagged cadets on large schemes take all the places whitetails once took and CP after CP backs up into the pools, while once again the debt looms, which is a shame as there are some great individuals, some of them friends, in whitetail.

I hope you come out of L3 with all the luck you can get Gbotley after writing such fantastic and honest blog posts. I think you might need it! :}

[gbotley]

Sullysark,

Your tone is coming across as a bit direct. You can have all the distaste towards me as you wish for I have never once felt to be far superior to anyone else. Nor will ever pretend to be if I’m ever so lucky to find an airline placement. The fact is, regardless of the school all of the three have had negative moments in history. I’ll leave the link you provide down to your own pondering as it’s not my place to comment. Why would I need to ‘think carefully’? Nothing I have written now, or in the past, has been a lie. I hope you enjoy your career considering you’re lucky enough to be in one. I’d encourage you to not forget your roots and the thoughts and concerns you may have had during your own training. Many people on PPRune forget that once they’ve the keys to their 320/737. As for the Arizona question, Florida is already established and has been run as AeroSim for some time. That school is also rebranding and will soon take on L3 EASA ops too. Not so much a decision to go there, more a decision to use what's already there.

Planesandthings,

Thank you for your best wishes. You’re right, I may well need it but I hold hope things change in the next 6 months. All it takes in this industry, as you know no doubt, is one thing to change and all these comments could’ve been for nothing. Blog or not though, I consider myself no different to the man next to me.

All the best

[Sullysark]

Sullysark,

Your tone is coming across as a bit direct. You can have all the distaste towards me as you wish for I have never once felt to be far superior to anyone else. Nor will ever pretend to be if I’m ever so lucky to find an airline placement. The fact is, regardless of the school all of the three have had negative moments in history. I’ll leave the link you provide down to your own pondering as it’s not my place to comment. Why would I need to ‘think carefully’? Nothing I have written now, or in the past, has been a lie. I hope you enjoy your career considering you’re lucky enough to be in one. I’d encourage you to not forget your roots and the thoughts and concerns you may have had during your own training. Many people on PPRune forget that once they’ve the keys to their 320/737.



Of course it's direct, its' aimed directly at you.

Great, thanks for the personal background. Let's not get off track, CTC/Easyjet/L3. You'd need to think carefully as you back tracked within 3 post, yet with other cadets telling you their personal experience.

All 3 have negatives correct, but we're not discussing the other 2. One of which I attended and it went through what CTC are now experiencing a few years ago and its never got it's reputation back. 'My roots' Well, I didn't write a blog, nor become a marketing tool for a flight school. Keys to an A320/737? I certainly didn't call myself 'Pilot so and so' nor do I, yet I am a pilot! :ugh:

You told the viewers on this forum, it was weather related and suggested it. Utter nonsense, an aircraft fell clean out of the sky. You're aware of that, if I knew. Due to a failed component of the aircraft which grounded the fleet for months, cadets actually flew home the delay was that bad! Secondly, they're leaving Arizona due to a falling out with Lufthansa, was that in CTC Aviation long term planning? Or the the company has had to pay thousands to the instructors so they will remain until the move base. :rolleyes: You've left this all out! Don't leave out the truth now, the truth will set you free.

You actually begun a thread to tell the good people about the rebrand a few months back, only no one replied to it. If you're going to be an unofficial spokes man, lets be honest and say it like it is. 'Odd hiccup' someone could have died, I'm not sure thats the phrase i'd use. The fact you won't pass comment, says all we need to know.

[Reverserbucket]

Sullysark

I recall rumours, prior to CAE buying OAA, that students (the majority at that time were what would now be described as 'Whitetail') were encouraged to write favourable posts to counter some negativity expressed by others about the management of their training and other perceived problems. It was suggested that those who wrote favourably were rewarded with fast-track access to selection by a large UK operator who had previously had a long relationship with the school. Following course completion, a handful of these students were selected by that airline, in itself exceptionally unusual at that time. I understand though that this was nothing more than speculation.

The apparent absence of blogs from students of other ATO's (although they do exist, most are from former students either seeking their first job or a channel for their narcissism) is more likely due to a different style of marketing and probably an absence of encouragement (or perhaps a contractual constraint?) from the management; not all organisations enjoy the outward looking freedom of expression that apparently L3 CTS embraces - look at OAA marketing from ten years ago and compare it with that of L3 CTS today; there are remarkable similarities. One ATO is particularly visible in social media, consumer publications as well as recently, terrestrial television (coincidentally, a class of Oxford BA cadets some years ago were also followed through training on a BBC programme called 'Airshow' with a reference to the school in each episode they were shown - great publicity you might think...). It's more than likely due to a proactive and modern marketing policy driven by someone in the organisation that understands the influence of social media on the demographic of their potential clientele.

'It would simply be speculation' - Small plane crash lands in Goodyear field - 3TV | CBS 5 (http://www.azfamily.com/story/35198706/small-plane-crash-lands-in-goodyear-field) Are you sure it was just weather related now with a touch of wake turbulence? Or maybe mechanical... if an aircraft manages to fall out of the sky.. who knows, its all speculation after all. What's your point? Training accidents are more common than schools would like you to believe, but they do happen and for many different reasons. The airfield in question suffered more than it's fair share of student mishaps at one point I understand, and largely due to mishandling rather than mechanical or weather. Are you suggesting that is why they are apparently moving their operation to Sanford (an interesting place to locate a large fair weather flying operation by the way, and not least because of the Class C airspace and relative congestion in the Orlando area), or is it more likely that the company owns assets there and it makes more sense from a real estate perspective? If so, it could be short-sighted for reasons described earlier. You might as well start up an elementary flight school in New Zealand but with the obvious advantage of being closer to your home base.

[gbotley]

:ugh:

Just a matter of opinion then as my own path to where I am now involved much more than asking parents for money and coughing up £100k. Make all the assumptions you wish, there's no pretentiousness here. I'm sure you were also just as happy to be going through it as much as I am now. Anyway; this thread isn't about me is it!

[Sullysark]

This pretentious "journey" nonsense does my nut in.

Behave, Botley. Driving to Lidl is more of a journey that paying £100k to go to flight school.

:D

Ok, nor all of our parents give us 130k either! (Type rating)

I prefer, the 'The story so far' like we don't know what awaits, a cliff hanger maybe. Well no, you're doing the same course as the 160 odd other CPs before you so we all know what lies ahead :rolleyes:

Then you get to the flightdeck and 95% of us simply want a Starbucks, and decent conversation the last thing we want to hear about is 'The Journey' fs.

[gbotley]

Look; I know a troll when I see one.

Perhaps consider the target audience of the content I produce Sullysark; it's quite clearly not for you is it. It's for the people wanting to be pilots themselves whom I once was. Granted, I'm not there yet; but i'm closer than a year or two ago. It's for the people wanting to know more about the industry and the people who want the true cost of flight training to which the flight schools seldom mention. Must I go on?

My longer term career aspirations go beyond a Starbucks and a natter about the days headline just as my blog goes far beyond the typical content produced previously. Heck, if you're after a Starbucks; I'll buy you one and show you how far wrong your preconceptions are. I hate PPRune sometimes.

I kindly ask you to take your rhetoric elsewhere and stop clogging this post.

Ta.

[Thegreenmachine]

BALPA are imminently starting negotiations to kill off flexicrew, something easyJet are actually keen to get rid of too.


In danger of taking this thread further off topic, if that's possible, how will this be brought about. Perm contracts thrown like confetti?

I thought the wholepoint of flexicrew was that it was advantageous tax wise to both the company and the individual.
What about the famously 'repayable' training bond?

[Sullysark]

Awk Botley, behave. Don't get touchy.

Fte Jerez is somewhere in the region of £20,000 more expensive with a faster course. OAA my old spot, again is different. So you can only give an insight into L3 and as I have pointed out. You've lied about or touched over, or simply ignored. Why? The answer is obvious you're aiming to be the best Mr EasyJet at CTC. It's obvious. Maybe even get on the TV!

Every post you comment on is in some form related to L3 or EasyJet. Yet, you do it to avoid any doubt or raise doubts about CTC. Isn't it true, CTC is full in NZ they had to source their accomaation. And that all relates down to the failure in the USA with a fleet grounded for months. Yet you told us that was the long term plan...

You missed the point sir. My point is in, hearing about the journey is as fun as drinking bleach.

I'm not trolling you. Simply reminding you, there's another 500 blogs before yours. All of which outline what you do. You even have your blog name on your Pprune log in like some student council rep.

[gbotley]

AFAIK, the training bond wasnt repaid under flexi until you went permanent anyway. Flexi contracts were typically UK only with European contracts being different by country. In any case, I reckon you’d just enter at the SO pay grade. As always, I’m happy to be proven wrong.

[foliot-pilot]

Fte Jerez is somewhere in the region of £20,000 more expensive with a faster course.

Just to clarify, you mean cheaper right?

Unless they've put their fees up

[Sullysark]

120,000 Euro. Roughly I believe. I've a family member there on the BA Cityflyer scheme, I went out to visit. They're definitely improved, and vastly improved their airline links from when I trained 6-8 years ago.

[Sullysark]

To clarify the Cityflyer scheme is cheaper, I was quoting the integrated scheme.

[foliot-pilot]

120,000 Euro. Roughly I believe. I've a family member there on the BA Cityflyer scheme, I went out to visit. They're definitely improved, and vastly improved their airline links from when I trained 6-8 years ago.

Wow, they have put their fees up a bit. When I interviewed 3 years back it was something like 90000 euro. On top of that the euro rate was really good!

[Sullysark]

3 years ago you probably wouldn't of got a job mind! Not sure what happened there, i think they had a new HoT etc.

I wanted to train in the US. Hence why I went with Oxford, 15 months in Jerez didn't sound like fun.

[Chris the Robot]

Ah, The Air Show on BBC, back in the days when BA fully funded trainees on it's TEP programme. From what I recall, the quality of the content on that show was fairly decent.

Regarding the paper and a coffee, the thing is a lot of "dream" jobs do eventually become just a job. I had two "dream" careers I was applying for, one was flying for the airlines, the other was elsewhere. At the moment, I'm doing the latter as a trainee and whilst I do enjoy it most of the time, there is more to life than work itself.

I think the blogs can be very useful when it comes to understanding the process, including selection, financing and the actual training itself. However, the "dream" side of things can be wearisome, particularly when training providers and airlines use it to sell "opportunities" with poor T&Cs.

FTE do seem to be fairly strong at the moment though I must say I do see Kura and Wings Alliance having given modular a bit of a boost.

[gbotley]

Sullysark,

Sure, let me go and comment in a post to which I have zero idea - because that’s logic, right?

I never denied issues in AZ, and you’ll find I said Bournemouth was in the longer term plan not AZ’s closure. With that said, as another user points out above, it makes total business sense to operate from a facility to which all assets are your own - hence Florida.

Sure as you’d expect, NZ is busy but staff are working damn hard to get through everyone - hats off to them. It’s the weather which is working against them right now. Hamilton’s in an odd place as when it’s nice here its crap elsewhere and vice versa. What more is there to say? While Clearways might be full; the accommodation being sourced is better to be fair! Nice new builds in town.

Anyways, I’m bored of this now. Any further issues with me then take it into a PM.

[Reverserbucket]

Originally posted by Sullysark
Due to a failed component of the aircraft which grounded the fleet for months, cadets actually flew home the delay was that bad! Secondly, they're leaving Arizona due to a falling out with Lufthansa This sounds almost like a repeat of the previous incumbent's of that facility - much common ground. What was the failed component and are Lufthansa contracted for maintenance?

gbotley
Were you told the extent of the problem? Presumably your peers out in the U.S. would have kept friends at other locations informed if they had all that time on their hands? What a nightmare. Perhaps those students inconvenienced, unless tagged, will be compensated with a shoehorn into EZY? ;)

Personally, I would be extremely careful posting information in any public forum about a training provider in the detail that has been provided here. If you are not posting with the endorsement of the management to support you, I would not wish to upset L3 who, as a U.S. corporation would undoubtable look unfavourably on delicate safety, operational and organisational matters being revealed by individuals under contract.

[Sullysark]

I think we should leave Botley alone, we may push him too far.

I am however not under contract in any shape or form, and simply speaking from her say, which is strong here say. As an FO's give me a day long chat about said company last week, for once I put down my glorious caramel latte accompanied by a disgusting bacon butty and listened.

Have I told you I'm training to be a Pilot?

[Byrne11]

120,000 Euro. Roughly I believe. I've a family member there on the BA Cityflyer scheme, I went out to visit. They're definitely improved, and vastly improved their airline links from when I trained 6-8 years ago.

117,000 Euro.

Kura is meant to be great, I've a few friends going down that route with them.

[Drussjnr]

I think we should leave Botley alone, we may push him too far.

I am however not under contract in any shape or form, and simply speaking from her say, which is strong here say. As an FO's give me a day long chat about said company last week, for once I put down my glorious caramel latte accompanied by a disgusting bacon butty and listened.

Have I told you I'm training to be a Pilot?

Waheyy its tom the pilot....lets be real though, FTE/OAA is ahead of L3 on a 'whitetail' course. Tagged Courses at L3 are better. FTE pays for Medical Renewal and you get Christmas off. L3 asks for more money :E

[MaverickPrime]

Then you get to the flightdeck and 95% of us simply want a Starbucks, and decent conversation the last thing we want to hear about is 'The Journey' fs.

:D very good, that made me laugh, good to know there is some humour on the flightdeck!

[Officer Kite]

What an absolutely desperate pile of s**** this thread turned into.

Leave George alone for god's sake. I've only ever seen him try to help others and provide info.

If you're that peed off by people talking about their "journey" then perhaps looking at a flight training thread with people currently in flight training isn't the best idea.

Many forget how happy they once were when it all started out. They become blinded by bitterness and anger and turn against those who are them 10 years ago.

Go find a girlfriend or something honestly guys.

The levels to which some of us go to try and embarrass someone and make a point (serve the ego really) are shocking.

I think the thread can be concluded as easyjet are not desperate for pilots, not 200 hr guys at least.

[foliot-pilot]

What an absolutely desperate pile of s**** this thread turned into....


Well said Kite

[MaverickPrime]

Officer Kite, its only a debate and a bit of joking around (well I was anyway). What is it they say - 'a man who is afraid to get criticised, never gets recognised'

p.s. I already have a gf, in fact there is a ring heading her way :ok:

[Sullysark]

This thread was a fact finding mission. The famous blog, is filled with lies then or cover ups shall we say as an FO told me.

[Reverserbucket]

I tend to agree although I'd be surprised if "lies and cover ups" were intended by those posting. Despite the bait laying question posed by the original OP, this thread has been revealing and informative. I hope those seeking a structured path to a career in commercial aviation can learn something from the testimony of contributors here. Caveat emptor.

[gbotley]

Reverserbucket,

Here's my answer to your previous question to bring my involvement in this very off-topic thread to a close.

As a trainee I have noticed a total change in internal communications for the better since L3 got its teeth stuck in earlier this year. While CTC Aviation may be no more, it is becoming very clear where L3 wish this business to be five years from now. Cadets now receive monthly emails on the happenings within the organisation which has covered topics such as the rebrand, what it means, progress on investments such as the new simulator centre in Gatwick and fleet in Florida, in addition those points discussed in this post - in detail. They've not beaten around the bush on the topics and have been very forthright with it all. Management from the UK have visited both international sites to meet trainees in person and as I've heard from my peers in the states have had quite a presence there of late. Last but not least, hold pool stats, transparency and airline-partner criteria is inclusive too.

For the avoidance of doubt, my intention has never been to cover stuff up; be libellous or breach my training contract - nor have I.

[Sullysark]

And that's precisely the problem. You can't say the realities, because your contract prevents you from revealing confidential information. Hence why you used the odd hiccup, the very idea a cadet didn't know what is happening in the USA is utterly ridiculous.

It would be fantastic to see a current L3/CTC cadet come forward and go yup, it happened and this is why or even someone who recently finished. You can't say diddly :mad:, 'never been to cover up stuff, or breach my contract' what you're essentially saying is. Well, I cant really post what the reality is as well I'll get sued for telling the truth. It sounds a bit like a Nazi regime come to think off it, just one you've paid 100k for.

[Reverserbucket]

gbotley

I think you may have misunderstood my post - I was supporting your enthusiastic appraisal of your training and ATO, although I must admit to having been confused, as I was under the misimpression that you were an EZY tagged student. My fault for not reading your other contributions properly or looking at your blog. My curiosity was sparked by comments made concerning EZY recruitment and also the relocation of training in the US, and although I appreciate you are in NZ, you clearly have some meaningful insight.

The management visits you describe should be expected and are quite proper following an acquisition and rebranding by a large overseas corporation and it must be reassuring to feel that the company has it's customers best interests at heart. If you had read my post properly you would have understood that my comment regarding posting sensitive or proprietary information was not aimed at you as I think you do a fairly good job of presenting your view in a balanced and proportionate way. I have not suggested that you have covered anything up, acted libellously nor breached any contract and I have no means to determine the accuracy of the information you post although it sounds reasonable. That said, comments by other posters might be seen as verging on the side of contention and my counsel would be to exercise caution and restraint to others when discussing aircraft accidents and potentially sensitive matters in the context of this thread. You merely stated that there had been problems as a result of growing pains off the back of changes at the Lufthansa owned facility in Arizona. which in turn led to mention of DA40 performance problems in hot weather and all that followed (I believe CTC/L3 CTS lease part of a LFT owned company's training facility at Goodyear, AZ). I sought more information but none has been forthcoming. You give the impression of being a well informed and trustworthy source of information who keenly imparts his experiences, and as such I feel it only fair that others here who have a genuine interest in professional pilot training, school selection and airline employment should seek your opinion.

I'm disappointed you feel this thread has gone off topic as I think that, as mentioned, the OP's title for this thread surely had to be a red rag to a bull to anyone close to or involved with either the airline or largest source of low experience pilot candidates? A discussion that has evolved from that is surely to be expected? One thing that is clear though is that EZY are not desperate for low houred recently graduated pilots at the moment; there is a need for more experienced candidates as departures to BA and elsewhere continue but the airline are unlikely to be 'sponsoring' inexperienced ICAO licence holders to obtain an EASA ticket with type rating. As far fetched as that may sound, I can remember a time when Britannia Airways (Thomson/TUI) were pinning postcards to flying club notice boards inviting applicants with a CPL and 700 hours TT to apply for a bonded IR course followed shortly thereafter by almost ten years of zero flightdeck recruitment; it's said that the only consistent part of airline recruitment is it's inconsistency.

Good luck with your training George and enjoy the training for the IRT.

[Sullysark]

Reverserbucket,

I genuinely believe you have a connection to CTC, L3 or whatever the **** they're called now.

The fact you are now supporting George and now mentioning the size of L3. No more information will be forthcoming, as it would be the truth. Growing problems, does not explain an aircraft crash making the local news. I've flown light aircraft up to tripe 7's each year my airline has increased size, I'm yet to see our growing problems result in a crash or months of grounding. Now, Mr Botley if you've anything to add truthful. Be sure to post it.

[gbotley]

Reverserbucket,

Perhaps I should have made that clearer - I'm Whitetail, not MPL. I agree conversational development around the point is to be expected; but I feel it became quite personal towards me at times which is partly the reason for my statement. You are correct in that easyJet, like many of their competitors, seem to want Captains. This industry was once described to me as a bucket with holes in. To plug the holes you need new employees; but training said employees takes time. This training is also important in this issue given the demand for TRI/TREs at many carriers which I guess is also holding things up at other ends of the timeline.

In truth I guess the main answer to the original question is, for as long as easyJet and other airlines have a large number of integrated self-funded fATPL graduates then full sponsorship is unlikely. I thank you for your kind comments and best wishes; and apologise if I/you/we misunderstood one another. That's sadly the downside of text based communication at times. :/

[PA28161]

As I'm aware. Yet recruitment at the same school via Route 1, 2 and 3 remains as prevalent as ever. There's the confusion to be truthful. If the airline truly was changing its' stance and opinion on L3 then surely you would see the entire portfolio alter? Just got to sit this out and see what happens. I never expected an easy ride anyway and always planned to apply to third-party carriers too. :-) Time will tell. Let's not forget this forum is full of rumours half the time.
That's why it's called PPRUNE

[Reverserbucket]

Sullysark

You would be wrong. I'm curious though, do you know more about the DA40 forced landing? It appears that the same aircraft also made another off airport landing on 31 May 2016? The one reported in April this year looks like an EFATO although a fair distance from a decent length runway?

[Byrne11]

Reversbucket,

I've been checking this thread often. I find it off particular interest, I'm also glad to see it has nearly 10,000 views.

However I do believe Sullysark said he heard it from an FO who just came from CTC. If you believe George is a good source of information. I believe you should ask George what happened with the crash in Phoenix as you referred to him as someone a potential cadet should seek information from.

[Chris the Robot]

Interesting thread so far.

Are Easyjet going to be short of pilots? No, doubt they will be to the extent of the blue and yellow mob unless it's a shortage of experienced captains. Whilst I'm under the impression their T&Cs don't match what was available in the industry twenty years ago, they're good enough to seemingly prevent a lot people from going to Norwegian or other carriers. Shame they don't take modular types straight out of training but that's a different debate altogether.

I've read gbotley's blog (or at least fair bits of it) and even though I'm strongly against the way integrated is funded, it does seem a reasonably good blog when it comes to practical matters, such as the assessment process, the way training is structured, transport to/from the accommodation etc. Of course he's not going to be overly negative when using his real name to write about an organisation which could massively help or hinder him finding a job at the end. That's common sense and unfortunately it is a practical reality of training that despite trainees paying huge sums of money, the flight schools do have a firm grip of candidates due to the schools' connections with the airlines. Anyone reading any blog about aviation training should be aware of that.

It can, I believe be a fairly small industry so when researching the industry or a specific training school with an attitude to beginning training, get an opinion from as many informed people as you can from a reasonably diverse background and see what the consensus is. Factor in anything which could influence the opinion of individuals or a group as a whole. Basic common sense.

[Sullysark]

Oh Mr Botley (Mr CTC)

Would you like to pass comment on another CTC forced landing in the United States, this week?

[foliot-pilot]

Can you post a link to the article? Can't find details

[Sullysark]

This one didn't make the news. Fleet grounded in the United States, again.

I can simply post an aircraft in a desert field photo.

MR BOTLEY. Can you pass comment? (I think Mr Botley is ignoring me) :=

[foliot-pilot]

Keen for the photo!

[Sullysark]

How do you upload a photo?

[foliot-pilot]

little yellow button with a mountain and a sun on

[PFDriver]

This thread stopped being about easyJet and moved onto a thread where a guy with 20 posts (curiously enough...) comes to attack a cadet who's done nothing but try to help others that are starting in aviation just as he is. This is not what aviation and encouraging new aviators should be about! If gbotley has been accused of being sponsored by L3 to say nice things about them, I'm curious as to who may be sponsoring you, Sullysark. And that is as far as I'll go...

[Sullysark]

You are joking, aren't you? :ugh: