Shannon-2

[840]

I posted that in the Dublin thread rather than the Shannon one by accident and deleted it from there. A 767 into Dublin is no problem and with other operators on the route the choice of operator isn't as vital. Is that going to be the only twin aisle operating into Shannon or are Delta still using a 767?

[AerRyan]

Delta currently use a 767, and over the previous 2 years a 767 was used on BOS.


Old thread: http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/200353-shannon.html

[AerRyan]

Sadly, latest info is that the announcement is delayed for a day or two. Should hear by the middle of the week.

[vkid]

Ryanair have just announced a new route from Shannon Airport to Barcelona Reus from March 2018.

[AerRyan]

4x weekly SNN-YYZ, 737MAX

[vkid]

Fairly high frequency, seasonal as it is.

Shannon Airport has today welcomed the announcement by Air Canada of a new direct service from Shannon to Toronto operating from June to October 2018. The service will operate four days a week on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays.

[840]

So if it's the 737 Max, it's Air Canada themselves rather than Rouge?

[A320.b744]

Yes it's Air Canada mainline with a full Business/Economy cabin.

[A320.b744]

Air Canada have released their seat map for the B737-8 MAX. They'll be in 16/153 configuration with 30" pitch in economy and 38" pitch in business. For comparison, United's B752s are in the same configuration, albeit with full flat beds in business. The good news is that there will be personal TVs and wifi on board.

It's pretty much a LCC seat with legacy carrier service. Not the worst outcome really.

Air Canada 737 MAX 8 Seatmaps Revealed - One Mile at a Time (http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/09/20/air-canada-737-max/?utm_sourcemedium=BoardingArea+Twitter)

[bannercounty]

Only about 40 Pax on the A319 from FRA on Saturday with 2 in business. All Germans, 1 American and 1 Irish on board.

[AerRyan]

Very late in the year. Still poorly performing.

[A320.b744]

Why are Lufthansa using the A319? The E190 or CRJ900 would be a much better fit for the route. It's as if they want the route to fail.

[DUBSHNORK20]

German elections this weekend. A factor in the poor load. This upcoming weekends Inbound and outbound loads looking well. In other news, Delta will be a 757 for the whole Summer 18 season. A loss of 20,000 seats or 43%

[AerRyan]

Delta reduction to 757 next year, leaving the airport without a widebody passenger service again.

[AerRyan]

United cutting Chicago next year, another major slap in the face for the airport.

Seen it coming, just not so soon.

Airport will struggle with any growth next year and I'd wager it'll lose numbers.

[Una Due Tfc]

Doesn't bode well for chances EI basing any more than 2 A321LRs when they get them.

[AerRyan]

Shannon in 4th place out of 10 for a new route to Cologne.

http://www.vote-and-fly.com

[Dreamliner_01]

Hearing from contact that the SAS route isn’t returning next summer can anyone confirm ?

[AerRyan]

Can confirm this.

Lufthansa is staying, but just hanging on.

[Dreamliner_01]

gosh thats a big blow SAS gone, Chicago gone, NY gone for winter with UA, Delta capacity reduction for summer 2018 - just shows how hard it is to make routes work out of the regions

Great that they got Air canada in and the extra Reus service with Ryanair otherwise be a major drop in numbers next year

[AerRyan]

PHL season also increased.

Can see numbers falling in 2018.

[AerRyan]

Delta using a domestic 757 next year which entails no business class. However, this will slightly weaken the blow of losing the 767 as the domestic 757 will carry more passengers.

The 757 days are getting very numbered, Shannon won't be considered 757 heaven for much longer!

[EISNN]

Having spoken with a pal of mine who works in UA’s Commerical department, the reason UA pulled much of the B757 operation is because of the new agreements that they made with pilots and cabin crew earlier this year. The B757 operation isn’t as lucrative now which is why the ORD-SNN-SNN operation isn’t returning. They’re mostly gonna be used on Hawaiian routes ex SFO and LAX now as Hawaii is the big sunshine holiday destination for US citizens these days. SNN wasn’t the only European airport to experience reduction either.

[SNNUS]

UA Will be arriving 0915 and departing 1230 when it returns. Rumour has it that the EI Boston flight may be an A330 for a few months in the summer. DL will be an all economy B757.

[AerRyan]

Management trying to secure a route to Larnaca with Cobalt for next summer.

In regards to the A330 on BOS, I've heard nothing but I doubt it, although I've been surprised before.

[EI-A330-300]

BOS rumour is probally from the fact current schedules require a fifth B752. So either one will arrive (unlikely) or one of existing SNN or DUB will be switched over the summer because they have A330 capacity. They have apparently opted against going back with daily IAD A330 so that leaves BDY, PHL or something out of SNN to move.

[Jerry123]

UA Will be arriving 0915 and departing 1230 when it returns. Rumour has it that the EI Boston flight may be an A330 for a few months in the summer. DL will be an all economy B757.

Delta will be a domestic configured 757. Which will mean no Delta One cabin but the domestic First class cabin instead not all economy.

[brian_dromey]

BOS-SNN would be the obvious candidate for A330 operations, but there is a problem. Without positioning flights I can't think of a way to get the A330 on SNN-BOS and the 757 to DUB-BDL/PHL/IAD. For that reason, I wonder if the DUB routes are more likely to see the A330? As an aside, do any SNN crew still operate on the A330?

[AerRyan]

There's a few things you could do, such as moving a crew to SNN for a number of months, or operating on a W from Boston and hence minimal ground transport in Ireland. Crew are bussed up and down from Cork every day in the summer to operate EI's routes to Malaga and Faro!

The jump in capacity would be huge, I'm not sure there's the market for it. However would love to see the A330 back operating from SNN.

[SNNUS]

UA becoming very seasonal. EWR flight ends 27th October this year.

[AerRyan]

Still longer than many seasonal routes run at the moment.

Very dissapointing however.

[Mayfly1]

Still positive to keep United for the season.
What were the final passenger numbers for the airport in 2017 and how much growth on 2016?

[AerRyan]

Not good as they've not been released yet. Here's the 2018 schedule overlook:

Increases on existing services

*Providence going to 4pw and Stewart to 3pw for Summer 2018 (as opposed to 2pw each for 2017) with Norwegian.
*Lanzarote with Ryanair increasing to 3pw for June and July.
*Philadelphia with American increasing season by a month.

New Routes

*Toronto, with Air Canada, beginning in June (end October) at 4pw on 737 MAX
*Reus, with Ryanair, beginning in March (Seasonal to October) at 2pw

Many losses too however:

Routes cut

*Berlin SXF (Year-Round)with Ryanair (2pw) - Cut
*Stockholm (August-October) with SAS (2pw) - Cut
*Chicago (May-September) with United (5pw-Daily) - Cut

Decreases on existing routes

*Malaga (Year round, but concerning JULY/AUGUST segment) with Ryanair - Cut from 4pw to 2pw.
*New York-JFK (May-October) with Delta - Reduced from 767 to 757
*Newark (Was Year round) with United - Cut to March-October
*Zurich with Helvetic Airways, operated at 1PW, not sure of exactly what season it was or will be but I know the season has been cut by the few weeks.

I expect a decrease for 2017.

[840]

Numbers were down by about 70K from January to September. I can't see any reason that trend should be substantially different for the last quarter. They were certainly down by about 5K for October.

Full route-level figures will be released by the CSO in late-March/early April.

[Wingman1000]

Looks like Shannon finished up at +0.1%.

[AerRyan]

Seriously?

Source?

[840]

From the CSO, these are exact figures for international passengers. so all that is excluded is the very tiny number of domestic passengers in Shannon

2016 (Jan-Oct): 1451018
2017 (Jan-Oct): 1381549

2016 (Full Year): 1653514
2016 (Nov-Dec): 202496

We also have a figure for total passengers at Shannon for 2016, which shows 1,674,567, with the implication that the total domestic figure is 21,053. I'm surprised it's that high, but it's still only a fraction

It would take over 35% growth in November and December to get to 0.1% growth for the year. I just can't see that.

Sources
Aviation Statistics 2016 - CSO - Central Statistics Office (http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/as/aviationstatistics2016/)
Passenger Movement by Irish Airport, Direction, Foreign Airport and Month - StatBank - data and statistics (http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/Define.asp?maintable=CTM01&PLanguage=0)

[GCUFD]

Does that include transit? They've signalled before that this is how they'll spin it.

Shannon caught in a tailspin ? The Clare Champion (http://clarechampion.ie/shannon-caught-in-a-tailspin/)

Despite the poor figures, Shannon Group CEO Matthew Thomas claimed the airport will finish the year on a par with 2016, 25% up on when it separated from the DAA.

He added, “The CSO figures provided this week do not take account our significant transit business at Shannon, which accounts for 9% of our passenger numbers and which has enjoyed growth of 80% to date thanks to additional frequencies from Kuwait Airways.

[840]

It includes connecting passengers who are flying a routing like Birmingham-Shannon-New York. In fact it double counts them.

As it's a sum of arriving and departing passengers, it may well miss those who are on the same flight like KU117 and BA001.

[AerRyan]

Domestic figures are the loop of Galway bay that Ryanair fly as a santa flight every Christmas.

[vkid]

Good news.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/297506/shannon-airport-looks-forward-to-year-of-growth-as-ryanair-add-new-services.html

[AerRyan]

Bristol -2pw
Liverpool -3pw
Manchester - increasing from 4pw to 6pw.

Very positive for the airport, extra 7 flights a week, didn't expect. There was a gaping hole in the UK market.

[snn20]

Excellent, needed for the airport

[Dreamliner_01]

Great announcement and a long time coming as gaps were obvious - Only downside is flight times and days on Liverpool service are shocking - doesent suit the significant football or weekend break traffic with 22:35 departure on a Saturday night - likewise Bristol days of operation very poor and offer nothing for weekend market really

[840]

That's a big expansion to the North-West of England (125%). I'm a bit surprised they didn't target a Scottish route instead of Liverpool.

[AerRyan]

A very lucrative deal was offered, one that would have not been offered had ryanair threatened the current service to EDI.

[AerRyan]

Deal was for 5 years so not really, means little anyway as most routes from the original deal have actually been scrapped. This recent one is completely independent of that deal.

Will it be built on for the winter? Probably not, other than the new services will remain.

[snn20]

Shannon 2017

Pax - 1,751,500(incl transit) (+0.15%)
Movements - 19,296 (+0.77)
Cargo - 19,073 tonnes (+38.67)

[vkid]

Big jump in cargo. I assume the Coca Cola Traffic helped there.

[Dreamliner_01]

Surely if a load of cash was offered they would have tried to secure better days of operation - hard to see these days been top performers they don’t even facilitate a weekend break - hope they added to winter schedule as don’t see them there as yet and most of rest schedule loaded

[MarkD]

Air Canada launch event with Ambassador Kelly in Toronto. Have seen a lot of web ads for the new route in the last week.
Twitter

[AerRyan]

Would be great to see it extended next year. One of them routes which could go either way! The fact that Air Transat maintained a rather useless service for so many years possibly shows there is a market though.

[snn20]

Aer Lingus is making SNN-JFK year around, Boston gone from Jan-March

[AerRyan]

Largely as a result of a shift in completition. United gone from Newark, making the route much more viable.

Shannon's Norwegian routes may be under threat for the winter. Corks Providence is already cut for the winter, and may not be returning again.

[Una Due Tfc]

Largely as a result of a shift in completition. United gone from Newark, making the route much more viable.

Shannon's Norwegian routes may be under threat for the winter. Corks Providence is already cut for the winter, and may not be returning again.

I had forgotten EI were just swapping JAN-MAR capacity to JFK from BOS. Was thinking that if PVD went, that would be the first time SNN had zero flights to the States since it opened!

[840]

Irish Examiner reporting this morning that both Shannon and Edinburgh to Providence will be suspended for the Winter along with the Cork to Providence route. No word of cutbacks on Stewart from any airport.

[snn20]

"Despite the cancellation of the routes to Providence, Norwegian is to expand its Shannon to New York service to four flights per week for the same period."

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/norwegian-air-cancels-us-routes-in-cork-and-shannon-1.3450059

[AerRyan]

Financial suicide for Norwegian however.

At this stage, it looks unlikely they will BRS and LPL will operate through winter.

[Plane mad 134]

Norwegian in W18/19 are expanding service to Newburgh by increasing the frequency from 3 to 7 weekly.

Information was found on routes online news.

[AerRyan]

Maybe read the thread first?

[Plane mad 134]

Oops sorry I just found out today and decided to post it but my mistake sorry

[snn20]

REU doing fairly good. PHL strong inbound however a mixed bag outbound

[AerRyan]

No major change and no concrete routes. Anything concrete would be announced, and anything far off would certainly not be in the public domain. Occasionally something near announcement would be released, but that's at discretion.

[snn20]

Air canada doing OK, inaugural was good both ways, monday and today were 50-60%... tomorrows YYZ-SNN looking fairly full though from the seat map

[snn20]

Bristol and Liverpool on the other-hand are quite a different story

[Dreamliner_01]

I’m heading of proposed cuts to set Lingus regional services from both cork and Shannon for winter - anyone hear anything similar ?

[snn20]

where did you hear this?

[snn20]

A mere 46 on tonights LPL-SNN, loadings havent been great ever since the route started

[840]

I’m heading of proposed cuts to set Lingus regional services from both cork and Shannon for winter - anyone hear anything similar ?

I can't say I've heard it, but it wouldn't be tremendously surprising. We know Cork-Newcastle is gone. Drop the third rotation from Cork to Manchester on those days where there is one and cut Shannon operations where it's operated as a W from Cork (or alternatively operate them as a W from Dublin) and there's no need for a third aircraft in Cork. It could be a big saving for not too much pain.

[cloudier]

I can't say I've heard it, but it wouldn't be tremendously surprising. We know Cork-Newcastle is gone. Drop the third rotation from Cork to Manchester on those days where there is one and cut Shannon operations where it's operated as a W from Cork (or alternatively operate them as a W from Dublin) and there's no need for a third aircraft in Cork. It could be a big saving for not too much pain.
I would be surprised if this happened high loads and very high prices too

[Dreamliner_01]

Shannon Edinburgh cut to five per week compared to six per week last winter and I’m hearing planned cuts on Birmingham could be following soon / midweek travel very soft during winter cited - not sure if will happen but heard It from couple of pilots the routes

[EI-A330-300]

I can't say I've heard it, but it wouldn't be tremendously surprising. We know Cork-Newcastle is gone. Drop the third rotation from Cork to Manchester on those days where there is one and cut Shannon operations where it's operated as a W from Cork (or alternatively operate them as a W from Dublin) and there's no need for a third aircraft in Cork. It could be a big saving for not too much pain.

Schedule on sale is whats planned, in fact ORK-MAN is increased slightly.

[snn20]

SNN-EDI 4x weekly from 31st october. MON,THU,FRI,SUN.

[snn20]

Birmingham also reduced to 6 weekly, no Saturday flight. Any word on how Ryanair are doing this summer, it’ll be a quiet winter for U.K. flights this year with these reductions, particularly Wednesday’s with only one stansted, heathrow, Birmingham and Manchester operating. Plus the loss of United in November also... at least there’s additional Norwegians and the extra jfk for the spring.
No saturday service between 10th of Nov and 8th of Dec however it returns to daily after that. Best wait for an official confirmation
Ryanairs new routes are going ok, REU is doing excellent, BRS too. Room for improvement in regard to LPL

[AerRyan]

Air Canada is doing extremely well. Expect a full season and an increase in frequency next year.

[snn20]

How well are loadings doing percent wise?

[snn20]

"Shannon Airport growth continues to soar as half year figures take off"
https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/322000/shannon-airport-growth-continues-to-soar-as-half-year-figures-take-flight.html

[snn20]

CAA UK STATS

April 2017 2018 %

London (LHR) - 23,039 | 22,083 -4
London (STN) - 17,423 | 17,112 -4
London (LGW) - 10,169 | 10,249 +1
Manchester (MAN) - 5,821 | 6,115 +5
Birmingham (BHX) - 3,316 | 3,435 +4
Edinburgh (EDI) - 2,397 | 2,508 +5

May 2017 2018 %

London (LHR) - 23,782 | 24,453 +3
London (STN) - 16,447 | 16,631 +1
London (LGW) - - - -
Manchester (MAN) - 5,541 | 6,334 +14
Birmingham (BHX) - 3,249 | 3,295 +1
Edinburgh (EDI) - 2,714 | 2,852 +5
Bristol (BRS) - NEW | 1,339 -
Liverpool (LPL) - NEW | 1,119 -

Stats for May are provisional. BRS and LPL began near the end of May. BRS had a 70% LF (1,339/1,890), LPL was 49% (1,119/2,269)

[Dreamliner_01]

If those load factors don’t improve dramatically on Bristol and Liverpool they certainly won’t last long - think Bristol is sustainable but Liverpool was always a challenge given capacity on Manchester and a well established service up the road in Knock - probably shows why they haven’t extended them for winter

[MerchantVenturer]

Ryanair has been operating Bristol-Knock for ten years, mainly as a summer route (3/4weekly) although it began as year-round. Interestingly, it will operate through the coming winter for the first time for many years at 3 x weekly. The early summer load factors on BRS-NOC have been similar to that on BRS-SNN for the first month of that route (part month to be precise) this year. For example, in May of this year BRS-NOC load factor was just under 73%, similar in 2017, 69% in 2016 and 72% in 2015. So the new BRS-SNN route does not appear to have impacted negatively on BRS-NOC, albeit less than a month's operation is a very small sample of course.

The BRS-NOC load factors typically improve significantly as the summer progresses each year so hopefully the same will apply to BRS-SNN. As always, yields are the important figure.

[Dreamliner_01]

Good analysis and shows that both airports can sustain similar services and Galway aside serve largely different catchment areas - interesting to see if ORK-BRS been impacted by the new SNN service

[AerRyan]

Expectations for the coming winter season is actually some growth, but rather minor. Expect an average of 1%.

These are the quiet months, while the summer services are in full swing announcements and tumours disappear. Nice to see the airport busy however.

[840]

I don't know if SNN-BRS will have had much of an impact on ORK-BRS.

It's now easier to get to DUB from Cork or Limerick than it is to get to SNN or ORK respectively considering the frequency of bus services and the much better roads to Dublin (and especially because there's no easy way to bypass Cork on the way from Limerick to Cork Airport).

Catchment competition between the two airports is largely confined to North Cork and Kerry nowadays.

From 2016 to 2017, there was growth of 27K passengers on DUB-BRS, so it won't be possible to tell any impact from SNN-BRS from general slowdown on UK growth in Dublin. The numbers will just get lost.

[vkid]

If those load factors don’t improve dramatically on Bristol and Liverpool they certainly won’t last long - think Bristol is sustainable but Liverpool was always a challenge given capacity on Manchester and a well established service up the road in Knock - probably shows why they haven’t extended them for winter


Think the biggest problem with Liverpool is the timings. No use to most people. Who wants to get there at 23.20 on a Saturday evening and come home Monday or Wednesday,
Makes no sense. You might do it with the same times on a Friday

[Dreamliner_01]

Agree totally the traffic in knock from my limited use of the service during winter was heavily football based as timings are good on both Friday and Saturday - the Shannon timing won’t cater for little if any football traffic between August and October

[owenc]

What’s up with the agusta westland 139 that has flown from snn to new jersey in 7 hours?

Surely this is a glitch?

[snn20]

Norwegian S19
SNN-SWF 5x weekly
SNN-PVD remains at 4x weekly

[vkid]

Norwegian S19
SNN-SWF 5x weekly
SNN-PVD remains at 4x weekly


Good boost in seats. Hope the winter season work well.

[AerRyan]

Won't be for another few months, generally route announcements are around late September- November.

[snn20]

Provisional CAA stats for June are out

2017 2018 %

London LHR - 24,206 24,162 0
London STN - -------- ------- - (provisional)
London LGW - --------- -------- - (provisional)
Manchester - 5,839 6,983 +20
Birmingham - 3,281 3,008 -8
Edinburgh - 2,826 2,888 +2
Bristol - -------- --------- -
Liverpool - ------- 2,273 NEW

LPL was new for June 2018, 26 flights operated with 4,914 seats on offer. This would represent a LF of 46.3%(not surprising given flight times, cant see this route returning next year unless flight times are changed) . MAN was upped to 6x weekly with 9,450 seats for June representing a LF of 73.9%

[snn20]

CAA UK stats for July are out (provisional)
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/395x286/caajuly18_aab1fce16f9a9dc5b61a1e896ab28d06483838d3.png

[Dreamliner_01]

Poor loads for Liverpool in the second busiest month of the year 64% load factor - Bristol faired better 79% which is good considering the days of the week it operating

[AerRyan]

Nothing exciting, but I hear some possible good news coming on Wednesday.

[cloudier]

Nothing exciting, but I hear some possible good news coming on Wednesday.
with Dublin using another B757 will this affect SNN operation?

[EISNN]

No. PHL is gauging up to an A330 so two b757 remain in SNN and two remain in DUB. Deliveries of A321NEO LR delayed until July/August when YUL route commences.

[bannercounty]

Nothing exciting, but I hear some possible good news coming on Wednesday.

Made the shortlist for #Wordlroutesawards. Time to break out the champagne😩

[Northoltway]

Malaga and Faro dropped for Summer 19 it appears

[Northoltway]

Sun routes from Shannon appear to be dropped for Summer 19. Dub/BHD/CORK schedules all loaded.

[brian_dromey]

Malaga and Faro dropped for Summer 19 it appears
I don't thînk that is a sure thing just yet. The previous W patterns from ORK won't be operated, but its not impossible that an additional A320 may be based at SNN, they will be operated by a wet-lease, or that 757/321LRs may be sent to AGP and FAO between turns.

[fivejuliet]

Sun routes from Shannon appear to be dropped for Summer 19. Dub/BHD/CORK schedules all loaded.

Same thing happened last year. SNN appeared later.

They have SNN-ACE dates loaded but marked as sold out so wonder if there's an additional unit.

[AerRyan]

Manchester at 5pw next Summer, the median value of this summer (ran at 4pw and then 6pw). Liverpool and Bristol are 'under review' normally meaning bye bye. Aer Lingus have not loaded sun routes, however there are rumours that EI are trying to locate a number of 737-400's from ASL, one of which would be based at SNN as an additional aircraft to operate a variety of sun routes. This is all subject to aircraft availability.

[fivejuliet]

Ryanair adding Ibiza, 2pw

[Dreamliner_01]

Hearing Bristol and Liverpool both gone for next summer - not on sale and looks like everything else pretty much loaded - Shame as used the Bristol service couple of times was handy but loads were around 60-65% both times in peak season - in fairness timings and days of week were rubbish

[Dreamliner_01]

Agree paul I wonder is the Ibiza service in place of Bristol / Liverpool - I can’t see Aer Lingus pulling two routes like this - would be huge blow to lose that much capacity for 2019 and take away all the positives from recent announcements - hard to see how Knock can make Liverpool and Bristol work the last number of years and Shannon can’t

[snn20]

Bristol and Liverpool seats were flogged at cheap prices to try and fill seats, not exactly profitable

[brian_dromey]

The frequency and timings at Cork for the SNN service are also poor, fares can be staggeringly cheap. How its lasted this long I don't understand. I suppose the 737-800 is just too big to be optimal for routes from Irish regional airports to UK regional airports.

[840]

I understand what you are saying considering that, assuming these are gone, the only route operated from Munster to a UK airport outside London in a 737/A320 will be Cork's Liverpool service, which has itself been scaled back in recent years.

But that opens the question of what Knock is doing right. Despite a more limited catchment and not being near Ireland's big tourist draws around Kerry and Clare, it will still have three 737 operated UK regional services.

[snn20]

BRS and LPL have worked from SNN before...Poor timings coupled with how late the flights were put on sale didnt help one bit.

[brian_dromey]

But that opens the question of what Knock is doing right. Despite a more limited catchment and not being near Ireland's big tourist draws around Kerry and Clare, it will still have three 737 operated UK regional services.

Its an interesting question. I would guess the more frequent flights from ORK/DUB and improved road transport to both DUB and ORK draw passengers away from poorly timed flights, even at very cheap fares?

[Dreamliner_01]

There’s no doubt knock benefits from a good schedule which in case of Liverpool is perfectly timed for football traffic - the west / north west of Ireland has a major diaspora element in the north of England which is s distinct advantage over Shannon ( note knock also has a daily Manchester service with Flybe) - Bristol service has a good leisure timed schedule and does well during summer season - interesting to see how does during winter would think marginal - at same time shame to see them lost at Shannon should be plenty big enough market for both airports to sustain services

[Northoltway]

Faro &Malaga both now bookable for S19 with AL.

[Dreamliner_01]

That’s positive hopefully Bristol and Liverpool follow with Ryanair 👍

[AerRyan]

That’s positive hopefully Bristol and Liverpool follow with Ryanair 👍
Unlikely at this stage.

To be honest it seems like Ryanair never had an interest in seriously running these services, more like they did it to avail of cheaper fees at Shannon across the board.

[snn20]

New routes were only what fell off the table with the new 5 year deal with SNN management. Same as the one in 2013 which resulted in all of those “new” routes at the time being discontinued eventually

[Dreamliner_01]

Good news but terrible schedule flight on Saturday night at 21:50! No chance for a weekend break even !!

[snn20]

EMA 2x weekly Monday and Friday beginning 5th April

[Northoltway]

EMA 2x weekly Monday and Friday beginning 5th April
good times for weekend breaks. Hope it doesn’t do harm to Bhx service with Ei

[Dreamliner_01]

21:09 on Friday nights and departs at 06:40 on a Monday from EMA / crazy looking schedule but nice to get a new route

[cloudier]

Looks like the Helvetic to Zurich is gone for 2019. I wonder is it due to the increase on the Swiss cork-Geneva route.
Swiss operate Zurich Cork not Geneva

[AerRyan]

It was all agency booking, next to nobody booked the flight only.

Perhaps it had some input, but in reality it doesn't matter much. I wouldn't put much thought into why exactly it's no longer available.

[bannercounty]

Cannot for the life on me understand what marketing the airport actually do but yet they get award after award and certainly market their achievements. They really need to go after the 35-120 seater aircraft market for feeder service into hubs. You never see marketing of the airport or destinations north of Gort and its one area they should be targeting with the Tuam bypass open. As for marketing abroad they are non existent except for the token mention through the Government bodies at exhibitions. Dublin is being promoted from these bodies and in fairness not on purpose but because they push DUBLIN as a gateway hub where you can fly to any where within Europe and the Middle East.

They really need to stop attending these “routes” seminars where they promote themselves along with the other 000’s of airlines. Better to actually spend the funds on marketing the properties & attractions within their own portfolio and work with the Western seaboard accommodation types such as Dromoland, Ashford, Adare, cottage rental etc. Why not have a “promo” with your gateway to the Ring of Kerry etc. Lough Derg with the boat rentals and fishing would appeal particularly to most Europeans. The airport management need to rid themselves of the civil service mentality and think outside the box.




The management seem to still have the “existing” fear of not trying to upset Ryanair or Aer Lingus.




Unless I’m mistaken it’s very difficult to see what routes and destinations are available on the new website so if someone for say in the US was planning to visit IRELAND and base themselves in an area with the idea of availing of “reasonably” priced flights to areas in Europe it would certainly rule Shannon out. As for the new website where are the pictured links to all of the attractions that the airport authority get the funds from ie Cliffs of Moher, Bunratty Castle etc.




We should have as a minimum flights on Fridays and Tuesdays to each of these hubs on a year round basis and not served with Aer Lingus or Ryanair but with the main players to offer connecting options as well as the weekend city breaks.




Amsterdam AMS

Paris CDG

Frankfurt FRA




Brexit ready they are not. Love supporting my local airport but 90% of the time I’ve to take the motorway to DUBLIN not because of point to point route availability but due to lack of connectivity from Shannon. Aer Lingus for the most part into HEATHROW means a long connection time between flights due to earlier departures from HEATHROW by other carriers. A 6am from Shannon to HEATHROW would be ideal but can never see it happening due to other reasons.




Rant over!,

[Mayfly1]

Kuwait finished up today stopping enroute to Jfk. A big blow to Shannon, fair enough it was just covering over the loss of previous flights. Time for Shannon to attract proper business
Disappointing news about Kuwait, anyone know the actual pax numbers on these flights and the annual impact?

[bannercounty]

Disappointing news about Kuwait, anyone know the actual pax numbers on these flights and the annual impact?

Averaging 300+ per day

[CCFAIRPORT]

Shannon - Frankfurt

1pw (sat)

begins May 2019

[Northoltway]

Shannon - Frankfurt

1pw (sat)

begins May 2019

Is this with Lufthansa? If that’s the case it’s already been running for the past 2 summer seasons. Nothing new there

[Asturias56]

Shannon hasn't a great future unless it's VERY heavily subsidized

Aircraft ranges increase all the time and even places like SIN can now be bypassed on the London - Australia route

It has a very limited local market - so it's future is possibly more like Inverness - ie inbound tourism plus a role as a ferry base for the short-legged aircraft. I doubt anyone would set up a big training base or a maintenance facility

[AerRyan]

Is this with Lufthansa? If that’s the case it’s already been running for the past 2 summer seasons. Nothing new there

Rumours of Ryanair, however they are false.

[Una Due Tfc]

Shannon hasn't a great future unless it's VERY heavily subsidized

Aircraft ranges increase all the time and even places like SIN can now be bypassed on the London - Australia route

It has a very limited local market - so it's future is possibly more like Inverness - ie inbound tourism plus a role as a ferry base for the short-legged aircraft. I doubt anyone would set up a big training base or a maintenance facility


It already has very large maintenance facilities, if anything I’d say this is one of the few areas they do have the potential to grow successfully.

When the new runway at DUB opens, even it’s neccessity as an emergency alternate for the NAT will diminish. Many airlines already divert to DUB for emergencies for operational reasons.

[Asturias56]

Suspect maintenance - like most other things - will move East with time

I guess you could set up a hub & spoke distribution service for parcels tho'.......... weather is pretty good in general and there is a lot of space - and Ireland is pretty famous for it's "flexible" attitude to taxing Multinationals - especially US one's.......

[vkid]

Shannon - Frankfurt

1pw (sat)

begins May 2019


Announced as 2 pw this morning with Lufthansa.

[bannercounty]

Great news. Would love to see this developing further to year round and perhaps Monday & Friday rotations.

[EI-BUD]

Expectations need to be realistic as regards Shannon traffic. Everybody wants the airport to grow but I think the current traffic is quite respectable for what is essentially a regional airport, and given its size it has a good proportion of TA flights.

Ryanair had a huge programme at a point in time, and they didn't bring the prize of inbound tourism and cut the base right back, it just didn't meet their requirements financially. Realistically it is only Ryanair who can bring the scale that posters on this forum might expect.
​​​​​​
The airport is very seasonal and relies on strong American in bound tourism. So much so almost all the TA flying gets suspended in the low Winter across early Q1..

The future has to be about maintaining the current network, growing other income streams and bring small incremental flying ...EI-BUD.
​​​​​

[EISNN]

It seems Aer Lingus has plans to operate SNN to LHR A321 NEO LR flights three mornings a week from the middle of March. Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Any word on what the plan is with the A320 that will not operate that route on those days? Are they going to tackle a UK or near European route in the morning? I can’t imagine they’ll let it sit on the ground doing nothing.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/285519/aerlingus-accelerates-shannon-london-a321neo-lr-debut-to-mid-mar-2020/

[Charlie Roy]

Interesting about the A321-LR.
Looking ahead to Summer 2020 there will be 2 Aer Lingus A321-LR based at Shannon.
1 for the daily JFK route, 1 for the Boston route.

It appears that 1 of those will also do a cheeky SNN-LHR-SNN in the mornings, every morning in Summer 2020.
The other will have room to do a short morning rotation too, in theory...

Meanwhile the A320 which usually does 3 SNN-LHR-SNN per day, will now start it's day at 12:25pm, which is indeed not very efficient.

Malaga seems to be operated by a Dublin based aircraft on a W routing.

[Thepirate]

Word around the airport is that someone indeed is seeing the potential in the <130 seater market for snn. Apparently something called aer lingus express is on the cards! Passengers arriving from the US (prob on a 321LR) can connect from snn to wherever..... Really hope this is true much needed capacity for the west!

Anyone hear anything more?

[840]

Two A321LRs would fill three 130-seaters leaving Shannon and that’s assuming everyone connected. But then what do those aircraft do after their first run? I think you need far more transatlantic flights to start feeding a small network, so unless other airlines come in numbers are awkward. It just seems to need a big ramp up in scale to work.

[brian_dromey]

If they do send the A320 to Europe before LHR it will be an early start. the current block times are 2:40 and 2:45 respectively. There is currently a 50 minute turnaround at FAO, for example, but that could be a little shorter.
SNN 0600 FAO 0840
FAO 0920 SNN 1205

Its not impossible, but its very tight. Its entirely possible that EI may be able to shuffle slots around and get a later departure from SNN. Nothing from ORK, DUB or BHD really fits the bill, good job IAG have a lot of slots, if needs be. The alternative is that EI think enough people will want to fly from SNN to FAO at 0540, or they plan somewhere like AMS or CDG with shorter flight times.

[virginblue]

Could they play the TSA preclearance card with a mini hub at SNN?

[840]

CDG could work 3x weekly in summer off point to point. AMS would be too dependent on connections and IAG won’t want to feed those.

Pre-clearance is clearly an advantage over other airports, but trying to be a transatlantic hub is a competitive business. The only airport with as small a hinterland that is trying is Reykjavík, but they have strong inbound tourism to Iceland.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

They will only use A321LR not two. CDG 3 weekly was tried before and failed. 2020 schedules released are just the same as 2019 for now so don't read much into that. I have a feeling extra FAO might operate daily instead of x4 weekly.

[Una Due Tfc]

Could they play the TSA preclearance card with a mini hub at SNN?

Wouldn’t make any sense while there’s spare capacity in DUB

[EI-BUD]

Two A321LRs would fill three 130-seaters leaving Shannon and that’s assuming everyone connected. But then what do those aircraft do after their first run? I think you need far more transatlantic flights to start feeding a small network, so unless other airlines come in numbers are awkward. It just seems to need a big ramp up in scale to work.
don't discount a BHX or MAN. The connecting traffic to the US both is huge..Neo could do LHR and the 320 one of those...

[brian_dromey]

don't discount a BHX or MAN. The connecting traffic to the US both is huge..Neo could do LHR and the 320 one of those...

Thats true, but there isn't any extra capacity being put into SNN at this stage - the 321 is, bar 4 extra Business Class, a 1-for-1 replacement for the 757. Unless yield and loads are dire and Dublin bursting at the seams I don't see a reason to fly half-empty A320s on flights between SNN and UK/Europe. SNN is based on O&D - any connections are gravy, but without decent yield O&D it will be very tough. Each and every decision is now answerable to Madrid, underperforming routes starve the entire airline of investment, not just SNN. IAG have many other options to place new A320/737s coming on-board. If they can make more money in Vienna with LEVEL on the side, than at Shannon with Aer Lingus thats where they will go. TD's be dammed.

[virginblue]

A remote possibility is - maybe - that for the two busiest feeder routes for TATL flights that operate close to capacity or are clogged up with transfer passengers from/to DUB additional demand could be routed via SNN.

[EI-BUD]

Thats true, but there isn't any extra capacity being put into SNN at this stage - the 321 is, bar 4 extra Business Class, a 1-for-1 replacement for the 757. Unless yield and loads are dire and Dublin bursting at the seams I don't see a reason to fly half-empty A320s on flights between SNN and UK/Europe. SNN is based on O&D - any connections are gravy, but without decent yield O&D it will be very tough. Each and every decision is now answerable to Madrid, underperforming routes starve the entire airline of investment, not just SNN. IAG have many other options to place new A320/737s coming on-board. If they can make more money in Vienna with LEVEL on the side, than at Shannon with Aer Lingus thats where they will go. TD's be dammed.
brian_dromey,
I'm well aware of the need for any 'potential' new schedule to be commercially viable. Firstly, such a route as BHX currently on many days by ATR can be close to full. Therefore, a need for slightly more capacity. The balance could be connecting.

The volume of passengers crossing the Atlantic is incredible, originating mostly in the US. Therefore if the seats are made available the pax will fly, it doesn't matter if the transit point is SNN DUB or even London. So just as in the case of Dublin as a transit point SNN could support many different routes for connections into EU or GB. Obviously EI are focused on DUB as a hub, but with a spare A320 in the mornings (assuming 321 goes to London) a daily rotation to BHX or even MAN would make sense.

Separately, there is a case for a Paris route on a seasonal basis, but again like any commercial opportunity, there will be other opportunities more attractive.

EI-BUD

[2Para]

Thats true, but there isn't any extra capacity being put into SNN at this stage - the 321 is, bar 4 extra Business Class, a 1-for-1 replacement for the 757. Unless yield and loads are dire and Dublin bursting at the seams I don't see a reason to fly half-empty A320s on flights between SNN and UK/Europe. SNN is based on O&D - any connections are gravy, but without decent yield O&D it will be very tough. Each and every decision is now answerable to Madrid, underperforming routes starve the entire airline of investment, not just SNN. IAG have many other options to place new A320/737s coming on-board. If they can make more money in Vienna with LEVEL on the side, than at Shannon with Aer Lingus thats where they will go. TD's be dammed.
do UA b757s not seat 170?

[Copenhagen]

What about a return of Belfast - BHD SNN JFK? There is demand ex Belfast for the US and this could help winter softness ex SNN.

this could also work with other Uk cities who have lost direct US service, such as BRS and NCL - with the benefit of O&D demand that BFS doesn’t have. .

[CCR]

A FlyBe or Stobart feeder service from Belfast to Shannon to connect to the US flights could work.

[ld0595]

A FlyBe or Stobart feeder service from Belfast to Shannon to connect to the US flights could work.

I'm think most people from Belfast would rather drive to Dublin and go direct. It's only about 2 hours and there are multiply daily flights to JFK and Boston whereas Shannon is only 1x daily (or 6 weekly?) to Boston/JFK. And of course Dublin has a much wider range of destinations.

[EI-BUD]

I'm think most people from Belfast would rather drive to Dublin and go direct. It's only about 2 hours and there are multiply daily flights to JFK and Boston whereas Shannon is only 1x daily (or 6 weekly?) to Boston/JFK. And of course Dublin has a much wider range of destinations.

There certainly would be sufficient demand for this, and Shannon withpre clearance would be a compelling prosposition if marketed correctly. However, the issue is that the only airline positioned to do this is Aer Lingus. They have significant feed on BHD LHR and they probably would have far more attractive short haul with better point to point pick up than BHD, so highly unlikely.

[brian_dromey]

There certainly would be sufficient demand for this, and Shannon withpre clearance would be a compelling prosposition if marketed correctly. However, the issue is that the only airline positioned to do this is Aer Lingus. They have significant feed on BHD LHR and they probably would have far more attractive short haul with better point to point pick up than BHD, so highly unlikely.

The operation at SNN stands on its own two feet, I think that should be celebrated. Trying to get a dozen low-yield passengers from Belfast or Paris onto SNN-JFK is a folly. With the 321LR, there might be room to squeeze MCO, YYZ or ORD into the schedule and to extend the JFK/BOS to year-round. To me, the idea of a "mini-hub" seems counter-productive. I am presuming that the SNN operation is almost entirely O&D and achieves very good loads. Connecting traffic would offer a low-yield and potentially displace SNN O&D passengers, which would be bad for the region. While a hub sounds attractive, aircraft are easily moved - especially if filling subsidised/low-yield/connecting traffic.In Europe a dual-hub has never worked, even in London - easily the most premium and high-volume market on the continent. BA spent hundreds of millions over decades trying to make a dual Gatwick/Heathrow hub work.

[Alteagod]

When EI ran the MD11 from BFS via SNN the majority of the passengers I remember only went to SNN for short breaks. But it always left with fwd hold stuffed with PMC's full of cargo bound for the states.

[virginblue]

I don't think anyone is advocating a dual hub, but merely some limited feed to TATL from SNN using spare capacity that would otherwise sit idle on the ground instead of earning money (as for your remark on the non-existence of dual hubs, Lufthansa is successfully operating a dual hub. You could also argue that SK has a dual hub at CPH/ARN). It would be particularly useful for capacity management as I suppose that O&D at SNN is much weaker in the winter than in the summer.

Btw, last year when I was looking for flights to the US, I was offered a Star Alliance conncetion via SNN with a Lufthansa flight from FRA and an onward connection on UA. Back then, I was wondering if anyone has ever done that.

[840]

I still don’t get what any feeder aircraft are going to do for the rest of the day. Let’s say there’s just one and it’s just to add a top up for the TA flights. It’s going to have to operate at least 3 sectors a day, but only one will be feeder. So what can viably be done with the extra capacity that is created?

[MarkD]

Norwegian discontinues SNN, ORK, DUB https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Norwegian-ends-all-transatlantic-flights-from-Cork-Dublin-and-Shannon-3fdd75a5-bb5a-4a37-89a7-7f8391fdf8d9-ds

[EI-BUD]

Expecting some positive route developments this week at Shannon ...

[AIRBUSNNS17]

From reading other forums CDG & BCN expected to be announced with EI for Summer 2020. It will fill the gap in the mornings for the A320 while one of the A321LR does the morning LHR.

[FerrisBueller]

It's even in the media....

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-to-launch-flights-from-shannon-to-paris-and-barcelona-1.4073539

[flyboy2008]

Lufthansa is going from 2pw on SNN Frankfurt to 1pw for next summer. Dropping the Thursday service, which was with an Embraer190 and only operating on Saturdays with the Airbus A319. Tried to book Thurs flight and its no longer on the website.

[EISNN]

SNN to CDG
Commencing Friday 13 March
Mon Wed Fri and Sun
Dep SNN 07h00
Arr CDG 09h45

Dep CDG 10h35
Arr SNN 11h25

SNN to BCN
Commencing Sat 02 May
Tues Thurs and Sat
Dep SNN 05h45
Arr BCN 09h05

Dep BCN 10h00
Arr SNN 11:35

These could be great connections on to EI’s JFK flight and possibly their BOS flight too if the times were readjusted. Either way it can only be a good thing for Shannon Airport.

[840]

I was thinking that would be an awful lot of expansion to Paris from Munster considering the recent Air France moves in Cork, but I'm not sure that Cork and Shannon are really in competition any more. With the better road and bus connections, I'm sure most people who can't find a suitable flight from their local airport are flying from Dublin instead. If anyone is making a choice between the two, they are probably in Kerry and facing a long journey to Dublin while being roughly the same distance from Cork and Shannon. So hopefully both expansions can prosper.

[irishbcn]

SNN to CDG
Commencing Friday 13 March
Mon Wed Fri and Sun
Dep SNN 07h00
Arr CDG 09h45

Dep CDG 10h35
Arr SNN 11h25

SNN to BCN
Commencing Sat 02 May
Tues Thurs and Sat
Dep SNN 05h45
Arr BCN 09h05

Dep BCN 10h00
Arr SNN 11:35

These could be great connections on to EI’s JFK flight and possibly their BOS flight too if the times were readjusted. Either way it can only be a good thing for Shannon Airport.

As though there were a shortage of flights between Paris and JFK and BOS?

[snn20]

TATL times have been ajusted

[Una Due Tfc]

As though there were a shortage of flights between Paris and JFK and BOS?

EI have huge numbers TATL connections from North America to CDG via DUB from cities with direct flights. Price is king and EI throw in the European leg for free. Connections will make or break these routes.

[Cyrano]

As though there were a shortage of flights between Paris and JFK and BOS?
A year or two ago I was flying Aer Lingus CDG-DUB. I was in row 1 and could hear the flight attendants discussing passenger numbers and numbers of connecting passengers (because we were running late). Fully half the passengers on the plane were connecting onwards in Dublin.

[EISNN]

TATL times have been ajusted

Only on the SNN to BOS leg but not on the BOS to SNN leg. Maybe that might change with time too? Who knows. It would make sense to make as many options available as possible to make it a viable operation.

[EI-BUD]

As though there were a shortage of flights between Paris and JFK and BOS?
huge opportunities in this space!!

[bannercounty]

I’m liking the flight times for the new routes and will definitely use CDG to transit. Pity about LH but a Thursday/ Saturday didn’t work and it showed with mostly German tourists on board. A Monday/ Tuesday and Friday would have been more appealing.

[snn20]

. Pity about LH but a Thursday/ Saturday didn’t work and it showed with mostly German tourists on board..
Pity about LH? Its still operating next year..

[bannercounty]

Pity about LH? Its still operating next year..

Reducing frequency

[PPRuNeUser0176]

United confirming cancellation of Shannon ops. EWR will not resume in 2021.

[CCR]

United are planning to retire their 757 fleet so Shannon is unfortunately affected by this decision.

[gaelgeoir]

United confirming cancellation of Shannon ops. EWR will not resume in 2021.

Seems like death by 1,000 cuts. Turns out that breaking from DAA was a major error, despite PR attempts to portray modest traffic growth since 2008 recession (!!!) as justification. Truth is Shannon's share of Ireland's air passenger traffic has declined from 11.2% in 2007 to 4.2% in 2019 and its airfreight throughput has dwindled from ca. 50,000 tonnes p.a. to a negligible figure today. No evidence of the innovation that maintained Shannon's importance in the decades following its forecast demise with the advent of the jet age in the early 1960s.

[Copenhagen]

Further bad news in that Loganair have no intention launching Scottish routes from Shannon. The rationale being the sectors are too long and yield too low. Volume is there, but they don't have the aircraft for the route.