Ryanair Cancelling flights!

[babemagnet]

Ryanair just cancelled 2 flights out of spain because there is no crew! According to managment Ryanair has enough captains 😩

[BluSdUp]

Were was this and how do you now for a fact it was due to lack of crew.
They would take the Learjet and fly in crew if they had any or fly a spare aircraft with crew in if any inside say 2-3 hrs range.

Just curious were?

[Jonnyknoxville]

quick look on the website shows 3 flights from CRL canx for bad weather (even though its fine) to corfu ,pisa and santander

Stn canx malaga and beziers

bcn canx vigo and ibiza

7 flights out of CIA canx

5 out of pisa canx
2 out of lisbon canx

Mostly refers to bad weather although it doesn't seem too bad out there now

[TheMightyAtom]

I can add another to the list for today, no FO rostered and none on standby for the (rather large) base.

[I-PIERLU]

We covered our colleagues' flight to be operated at 4:30 with 8 hours delay, after our duty... They look pretty well organized and ready.

[RAT 5]

This idea of cancelling flights due Wx or ATC has been tried many times before so that 'extraneous circumstances' can be claimed by the operator & no EU compensation paid. I thought that dubious practice had been exposed and thwarted previously. If that is correct, and if these stories are correct, how can this attempt at scurrilous excuses succeed?

[Skipname]

It can succeed because your average passenger doesn't know how to determine if the weather is actually bad enough to cancel a flight. They see some clouds out there and take the airline's word for it.

It makes me very happy to see that they have crew problems. After screwing the crew for so long, it was long overdue for the roles to reverse. I also hope this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Ideally the Ryanair crew will follow the pilots from Thomas Cook and go on strike for few days.

[EDDT]

They can't strike, because they are not organized in a workers union.

[Vokes55]

Well they could go on strike. I think an airline this short on crew is going to be pretty powerless if half the workforce don't turn up one morning, unionised or not.

But of course this won't happen, the majority of Ryanair pilots either have no backbone or would use such an event as an excuse to boost their own career prospects ("look at me, I turned up when everyone else didn't").

Excellent news nonetheless, and certainly more cancellations to follow.

[UAV689]

Just a few cancelled flights yesterday...

https://www.cloud.scorebuddy.co.uk/ryanair-services/cancellations.php?date=2017-09-10

Yes some are genuine weather/tech. But a lot compared to other days!

[7574ever]

One thing I could add: In my experience Ryanair are highly reluctant to cancel flights for any reason, let alone transitory weather conditions. Generally they would delay them as long as crew duty permits or call up a standby crew as necessary. This is certainly odd that they would cancel nearly 80 flights solely for weather reasons. In my personal opinion, if they had standby crew they would mostly have been operated, one way or another.

[UAV689]

80 is a lot, especially for a company with bases and aircraft all around the network.

Or maybe, it wasnt a lack of pilots, maybe the 2 people that day in crewing called sick and this was the outcome! I mean, a couple of crewers for 10,000 cabin crew and 4000 pilots is just a bit to 'lean'

[Jonnyknoxville]

Doesn't matter anymore anyway , according to the IT guys in Ryanair , soon we won't be an airline anymore , gonna be an online digital something or other . maybe they should have flown the planes .

[RAT 5]

They can't strike, because they are not organized in a workers union.

Self-employed? Surely you just phone in as 'unavailable' or 'on another job that has taken a bit longer than expected' or 'I'm sick' or ..........Ive been diverted and will be a couple of hours late, or......

[doniedarko]

So RYR would never offer Direct Entry Command upgrades for FO's then .....or is that just a rumour I heard :E

[italian stallion]

Well the latest advert offers 10000EU starting bonus if successful. ...

[doniedarko]

Big list of cancellations today.....all due to French ATC of course. MOL has constantly called out ATC

“We need to deregulate air traffic control. And there has been no deregulation of airports, airport monopolies have not been broken up,” he says. “The problem is, we do not have a Peter Sutherland any more, there is nobody there with the will or the bottle to break up the airport or air traffic control monopolies.”

and deregulation has worked so well to improve airline T & C's :sad:

[Reverserbucket]

French ATC industrial action was Notamed for last night and tonight affecting Marseille and Reims. Might have been a factor?

[PSEULGT]

Shortage of crew is a becoming a big issue. Not sure how next summer will shape up when this summer wasn't finalised until April. Many asking where their €10,000 is for staying with the company after 10+ years. How to alienate your workforce. Give DE FOs their base of choice instead of the loyal ones already in the company. FOs with base transfers in to their home bases being told there's no space for them yet DE FOs being put into them instead. There you have a reason why there is a shortage of experienced FOs. SFIs, who are FOs, only flying ~90hrs a year as they're always in the sim. "The best roster in the business; stable 5 on 4 off pattern"....yeah, right. Maybe 5 years ago, not my experience anyway. Duties changed without notifying the crew in advance. There are cases where they don't even know where people are when they're at work - crewing calling their home numbers asking for them when they're at work?

[Bayerische]

Just to put things into perspective on how badly T's and C's have fallen.

A friend of mine got his command in Stansted with Ryanair in 2001. His net salary per month was roughly £5000.

Today 16 years later a Captain in Stansted earns roughly the same.

[TheMightyAtom]

For context that's a 59% reduction in net income, wonderful!

[Skyjob]

Some references t weather seem genuine.
On 10/09 e.g. Barcelona did not accept any inbound aircraft due weather for over an hour, many pilots had toehold or divert to suit their needs.

[smith]

Just to put things into perspective on how badly T's and C's have fallen.

A friend of mine got his command in Stansted with Ryanair in 2001. His net salary per month was roughly £5000.

Today 16 years later a Captain in Stansted earns roughly the same.

Is he complaining or doing anything about it?

[Bayerische]

He is long gone.

[DND delivery]

"Ryanair schrapte zes vluchten op Charleroi door gebrek aan personeel, niet door slecht weer" - HLN.be (http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/943/Consument/article/detail/3257522/2017/09/12/Ryanair-schrapte-zes-vluchten-op-Charleroi-door-gebrek-aan-personeel-niet-door-slecht-weer.dhtml)

According to this Belgian site (in Dutch), Ryanair cancelled 6 flights from Charleroi on Sunday due to lack of pilots, and not bad weather as they had claimed.

[RobsonCanolo]

I would put my money on the in house vehicle for bargaining instead of currency fluctuations why the pay is the same. It's not a great development...

[WindSheer]

What's the purpose of an airline?

[RAT 5]

Salaries stay the same, profits rise. Hm? There must be a connection. Do the same calculation for euro bases and I suspect you'll find the same relationship, so Brexit is a red-herring.

[Shooting_Star]

Anyone knows whats the excuse to cancel tomorrows flights ? https://www.cloud.scorebuddy.co.uk/ryanair-services/cancellations.php?date=2017-09-15

[pax britanica]

Anything that damages MOL 's credibility must benefit the aviation industry overall.

Running an airline is not like tarmacing drive ways even if it has been profitable it has basically trashed the business and customer experience for everyone, employees and customers alike

[TheMightyAtom]

Funny you should say that...

[modelflyer]

Anything that damages MOL 's credibility must benefit the aviation industry overall.

Running an airline is not like tarmacing drive ways even if it has been profitable it has basically trashed the business and customer experience for everyone, employees and customers alike

Sorry, but I am one happy customer.http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

For me Ryanair provide reliable, punctual flights at a cost per mile a fraction of what it costs to travel on a UK train - and I've never had to stand in a packed aisle with Ryanair. Two delays in fifteen years. First - Luton-Dublin diverted to Shannon so was late back at Luton (not by much) to take us to Murcia. Second - fire in control tower at Murcia so had to be bussed to Alicante - handled very efficiently.

[squeaker]

Glad you like them, however this article sums up why I wouldn't want to fly with them, let alone work for them.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ryanair-captain-was-unfit-to-fly-investigation-finds-1.786317

[Ryanairpilot]

Modelflyer I'm very pleased for you. Glad you've found the service so good over the years. The problem is that the low fares you enjoy come at the price of continually eroded terms and conditions over the years. This eventually reaches a tipping point as O'Leary is now finding out.

How about putting pressure on the management to treat the staff in a manner that stops swathes of resignations, stops pissing the rest of us off and creates a stable workforce that can maintain the schedule.

I hope you never get caught up in a cancellation because as the small print says, you're on your own.

[RAT 5]

Sorry, but I am one happy customer.

Do you buy 'fair trade' coffee & veggies & jeans/clothing etc? Or do you buy the cheapest available? Cheapness comes at a price to the workers & suppliers. Cheap & good value are not the same thing. Mill workers conditions should not be part of 21st century in a hi-tech industry that demands high levels of education, entry cost, dedication, self-sufficiency, leadership, manuals & mental skills in multi-tasking environment while under stress, etc. Once you get to the raw bone there is nothing left to cut and nasty things start to happen. There is no muscle to support the core body and it starts to buckle then collapse. The world is full of examples and those at the top who had bank accounts filled with dosh as the walls burned around their ears.

[thetimesreader84]

Sorry, but I am one happy customer.


This is why we can't have nice things.

[GScapture]

I wonder how's the 10k bonus thing going on.. :hmm:

Well nevertheless Ryanair will do whatever they can to continue the same story with the cost of employees health and money. At least some happy news today from ECA;

"Ryanair’s Irish fiction refuted by European Court of Justice.

"This ruling puts the convenient fantasy that aircraft registered in Ireland are somehow an airline's own ‘private kingdom’, to the flame”, says ECA Vice-President Jon Horne.

“This argument has been wrongly used to deny mobile workers all over Europe their fundamental rights and made them feel like subjects, not employees. The Court not only clearly states that a worker's home base is their place of employment, but – in addition – that it is the real home base that matters, not an invention by some crafty employers."

[modelflyer]

This is why we can't have nice things.

I'm not sure I understand why Ryanair is stopping you having nice things, but if it's a different type of flight you are after then turn up at your preferred airport and await the private jet you could charter. Nice as you like if you've got the money.

My comment certainly stirred up a bit of a hornets' nest it would appear.

However, it seems to me that flying has become a thing of, and for, the masses and as a consequence market forces will drive payscales like most other private-sector places.

Perhaps a corner will be turned soon.

I would applaud the flight deck person who came on the PA and said "We've all got crap wages so would you all please put £10 in the hat as it goes round and I will ensure it gets shared fairly amongst us".

I'm sure if the airlines find staffing a problem (reduced profiyability) things might improve.

[TheMightyAtom]

Why? care to expand on your comment?

The rumour is they intend to launch a direct entry command upgrade program for experienced FOs

[thetimesreader84]

I think there's a more reasonable option between "chartering a private jet" and the FR model of "screwing as much as we can get out of our crews". A few quid (literally single digit numbers) on the ticket price would more than cover adequate Ts & Cs and probably leave enough over for a few bottles of fizz at the CEOs Christmas party.

But that's the issue with the world isn't it? At some point in the last 20 or so years, certainly in my lifetime, we went from "a rising tide lifts all boats" to a "I want as much as I can, for as little as possible".

Like I said, that's why we can't have nice things.

[WindSheer]

If you want to work for Ryanair work for them, if you don't, then don't.

I don't get all the MOL bashing. He runs a VERY successful business with a business model that delivers.
My only criticism is there seem to be no 'family values' as part of the strategy, but that is their choice.

I know that's controversial, but that is modern transport - it's about moving people cheaply.

[FlipFlapFlop]

Because you don't get it does not mean others don't. Who started the race to the bottom on this side of the Atlantic ? With a strategy that is aimed at eliminating opposition by whatever means and a CEO who openly casts doubt on the ability of others to survive for no other reason than to further damage those operations, it is very reasonable to develop a bit of a dislike of the man. And when the strategy has succeeded what price cheap seats then ?

[Journey Man]

My comment certainly stirred up a bit of a hornets' nest it would appear.

Comes on a professional pilot forum with heavy European focus and wonders why those who are directly subsidising her flights, and those indirectly affected, aren't equally enthused. Genius.

Tone deaf.

Is there an online forum where some anonymity is traded for members submitting CP/ATP licence details to gain access?

[eduelp]

Dozens of cancellations for today and tomorrow as well.

https://www.cloud.scorebuddy.co.uk/ryanair-services/cancellations.php?date=2017-09-15

It seems that sh*t is starting to hit the fan down in FR

[UAV689]

Only 80 flights cancelled today,

And another 80 so far tomorrow.

MOL must be going absolutely apoplectic over this. Oh to be a fly on the wall.

How much to cancel a flight? 30-50k at least? He just doesnt get it.....offer a day off payment to contractors and increase the payment for ryanair staff and maybe people will work a day off. Then address the fact why 100s are leaving.

For such a so called clever bright man, has he heard the phrase you "reap what you sow" before?

[Avenger]

Seems like BA, Midland, Easy all cancelled flights due to ATC strike, why do you assume FR is due to crew shortages?

[UAV689]

Seems like BA, Midland, Easy all cancelled flights due to ATC strike, why do you assume FR is due to crew shortages?

I didnt realise the stn-edi routes passed tgrough france. The french strike is a blessing in disguise

[Quasar2548]

Because the strikes finished two days ago.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

These flights are for today, the French aren't on strike today.

I suspect that most wouldn't be able to work a day off as most won't have the hours available to do so.

[wiggy]

the French aren't on strike today

:ok: and haven't been for a few days, so I'm not sure why some posters are using the present tense.

It was a "one dayer", kicked in late Monday night, finished around Midnight Tuesday. At least one other airline operated full services into, out of and over France from Wednesday onwards and I flew into a French airport on Wednesday night.......so no, any FR cancellations today are not down to French ATC being on strike.

Mind you just so MOL and others can get their excuses in early they might want to be aware there is another "day of action" next Thursday...not sure of the level of ATC involvement.

[RAT 5]

"Ryanair’s Irish fiction refuted by European Court of Justice.

GS Capture: please supply a link. The next question: is this ruling binding and if so, what are the authorities going to do about enforcing it? And what recompense and other refunds can the victims claim back? If they have incurred expenses which should have been at the employer's cost then surely they should be refundable. There is also a question about lost 'are time' or time off. The commuters were on duty positioning in their own time and so were not operating according to a correct contact.
Will this can or worms ever be opened?

[CaptainSensible]

RYR only need to hang on until the clocks change and then enjoy another 6 month respite before the next season starts.

[skyloone]

Having spoken to a few FR guys the 100hr/28 days bit is hurting. With delays etc... one commented that the 60 hrs/7 days was not enabling working days off or swaps. The roster apparently shows standby cover but crew auctually unable to be called due hours. Throw in a few standard sickness, technicals and all is in a bit of a pickle. Crew control not answering calls. One guy said most of his base are refusing days off as the very long days with min rest between is proving a bit punishing. Guys gasping for their months off which are about to start again. Only rumours off course.....

[Bayerische]

As I said, they have access to a lot of crew, simply call those FO's back who were command ready and put them straight on the command course, most would jump at the chance.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Anybody that I know that has left Ryanair has never looked back. The place is toxic.

Southwest can have a profitable Airline and a happy workforce that see the job as a career....why can't O'Leary?

I seriously think they underestimate how much of a problem this will be for them.

[UAV689]

They are totally feckless. Let's not forget for the last few months they have been flying in cabin crew from dub each morning as they are short on that front as well.

I do feel sorry for the people on the phones in crewing, the bosses have ballsed up, and they along with rest of staff are having to work hard. (Oh that is probably why have of crewing have also resigned in last month!!)

[Vokes55]

RYR only need to hang on until the clocks change and then enjoy another 6 month respite before the next season starts.

I wouldn't be so sure. Their 900 calendar year reverted to start on January 1st this year (I believe), so by the end of the Summer many of them will be very high on hours - the schedule will slow down slightly but that's when the months off begin.

They may breathe a sigh of relief on January 1st, but it will be short lived. If they can't crew the aircraft now, they have no chance with expansion. It's absolutely fantastic to see, imagine how many additional flights would be cancelled if their crew had the balls to call sick or fatigued when they're...sick or fatigued.

[fulminn]

they are cancelling about 80 flights per day
:E

[Callsign Kilo]

I'd imagine the 737 rated DEC tree isn't baring any fruit and people are still heading for the door marked 'exit.' What's new? They'll pull through, bury their issues with PR spin and add a few extra zeros to the balance sheet for additional wet leasing costs. I wouldn't get too excited.

[fr666andback]

"Ryanair’s Irish fiction refuted by European Court of Justice.

GS Capture: please supply a link. The next question: is this ruling binding and if so, what are the authorities going to do about enforcing it? And what recompense and other refunds can the victims claim back? If they have incurred expenses which should have been at the employer's cost then surely they should be refundable. There is also a question about lost 'are time' or time off. The commuters were on duty positioning in their own time and so were not operating according to a correct contact.
Will this can or worms ever be opened?

A link:

Ryanair loses EU court battle to keep Irish law for crew abroad | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ryanair-crew-court/ryanair-loses-eu-court-battle-to-keep-irish-law-for-crew-abroad-idUSKCN1BP0VM)

[GScapture]

"Ryanair’s Irish fiction refuted by European Court of Justice.

GS Capture: please supply a link. The next question: is this ruling binding and if so, what are the authorities going to do about enforcing it? And what recompense and other refunds can the victims claim back? If they have incurred expenses which should have been at the employer's cost then surely they should be refundable. There is also a question about lost 'are time' or time off. The commuters were on duty positioning in their own time and so were not operating according to a correct contact.
Will this can or worms ever be opened?

I did try to add link on it put this site didn't allow me to do it since I haven't posted enough :hmm:

https://www.eurocockpit.be/news/ryanairs-irish-fiction-refuted-european-court-justice

Good questions and probably it's just a small start but at least it is something. I don't think nothing will ever be refunded or so but as long as it slows down or it's a once step closer to stop this kind of employment it's always a good news to hear.

Oh and heard the same, Ryanair cancelled and will cancel odd ~80 flights a day.

[jeehaa]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ryanair-to-cancel-up-to-50-flights-a-day-for-six-weeks-1.3222671?mode=amp

Up to 50 Cancellations for 6 weeks due to staff shortage

[Luibar]

Maybe its time for FR to face reality. 5 on 4 off is not enough anymore. I've been told that even NTR DEC are not lining up anymore. True or not who cares...

[Flyingfisher]

Ryanair spainish flight cancelled for Sunday 17th not able to contact "the live chat line for re-routing. BUSY ????
Anybody any idea was it ???

(1) lack of staff.

(2) what if any compensation a passenger might get. ( according to the web site if you make your own way home you will have to claim from your travel insurance). But what choice does one have.

[Vokes55]

Now Ryanair have sent all pilots a memo that "to improve productivity, they may have to change the roster pattern", and some pilots have already gone on to 5/3 with today's roster.

[zerotohero]

Just saw this in the news..... I am going to spend the next 10 mins on the floor after falling off my chair laughing then ill come back for a full read of the rumours lol........ After 8 years in that company before jumping ship in 2014 I can't tell you how happy I am it seems to have finally bitten them back.

Fantastic news for us Pilots.

[Maxfli]

Fantastic news for us Pilots.

?

All I see is 5/4 being turned into 5/3 for the FR drivers.
If you're out of hours....... unpaid leave, as in Winter, is always an option.

Don't see where there is an upside here.

Good luck to all.

[directmisbi]

Plenty of upside. Either you leave, or you stand up and fight for your rights. Simples!

[zerotohero]

The upside is that the cracks are becoming holes and they will have to stop the further degrading of terms to plug the holes. This will hopefully stop the race to the bottom getting even lower.

Yes if your in FR this could suck short term but if your employed elsewhere this could change the mind of an employer saying lets not give a pay rise next year after seeing that you can't get away with it for ever.

[CaptainSensible]

RYR arrogance really knows no bounds, and as usual it's not their fault. Mismanaged recruitment and retention policies pure and simple. If the ECJ ruling and cnx flights due lack of staff do affect the share price then surely questions to be asked at the next AGM?

[Vokes55]

If Ryanair pilots actually grew a backbone, this situation would not 'suck' for them because they'd flat out refuse to operate duties outside of the agreed roster pattern, would offer to work days off for an extra 500 Euro, etc. Unfortunately, they don't have a backbone, so Ryanair still get away with doing what they want with the pilots that are left.

[RobsonCanolo]

9000 passengers a day for six weeks would be a lot of money in compensation. At some point it's cheaper isn't it to boost salaries and conditions so people stay and fly then having to pay compensation and letting down the passengers for not being able to retain staff because of bad conditions.

[UAV689]

Ironically the 5/3 change will probably mean easier days as you can't sustain 4 sect days on 5/3 like you can on a 5/4, so that won't be a solution.

Am praying for some serious pressure from shareholders over this and the ecj ruling that just maybe will force a regime change.....well one can only hope.

[smith]

Ryanair cancelling '40 to 50 flights a day' for six weeks
http://news.sky.com/story/ryanair-cancelling-40-to-50-flights-a-day-for-six-weeks-11037187

[smith]

To be honest anyone who joined FR in the last 10years went in with their eyes open or otherwise had been living in a cave.

They went in there paying for their type rating, sleeping in airport car parks and paying to fly simply to tread on anyone in their path. They are as guilty as MOL in reducing T&C's.

So anyone on here who willingly applied to FR for a job and are complaining or laughing at FR's predicament should simply STFU and take a look in the mirror to see where it all went wrong.

[SliabhLuachra]

To be honest anyone who joined FR in the last 10years went in with their eyes open or otherwise had been living in a cave.

They went in there paying for their type rating, sleeping in airport car parks and paying to fly simply to tread on anyone in their path. They are as guilty as MOL in reducing T&C's.

So anyone on here who willingly applied to FR for a job and are complaining or laughing at FR's predicament should simply STFU and take a look in the mirror to see where it all went wrong.

Oh, grow up! Tell that to the bank and your family who's house will be taken away after you've bounded it to a loan if you don't start working. It's the management's fault. Sickening stuff goes on there. They're working in their office with slides and pool tables in blissful ignorance while people are having their careers ruined and their lives as well.

[seafire6b]

The Daily Wail is now on the case, and with (for them) only a minor distortion, i.e. "Ryanair cancels up to EIGHTY flights a day for six weeks because their staff haven't taken enough holiday" ?

Ryanair cancels up to eighty flights a day for six weeks | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4889416/Ryanair-cancels-EIGHTY-flights-day-six-weeks.html)


Also Ryanair's Facebook page is getting swamped with complaints - interesting times.

[RavenOne]

Lets hope that this will improve T and C´s...... Holidays? What is that?

[Ivan aromer]

Perhaps the chickens are coming home to roost, at long last.

[highfive]

600 ++ Ex Air Berlin B737 rated pilots should sort out any shortages. Seen it all before with Air Europe, for those who can remember.

[Long Haul]

According to this article in the Guardian, "The airline is changing its internal calendar as part of increases in holiday allowances for pilots and cabin staff, which has contributed to the backlog." Anyone noticed "increases in holiday allowances" recently?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/16/ryanair-cancels-up-to-50-flights-a-day-to-improve-punctuality

[GScapture]

The airline will not change it's culture nor it'll be changing their t&c's. Maybe some minor bonuses etc. might come to sort everything out but nothing permanent. That's just how the airline is built and how the management thinks about it.

I was told during my type rating, line training and line flying to leave. By several captains who all said the same; "Believe me I've been here x amount of years, nothing will change regardless what happens". Seeing these cancellations to happen is music to my ears personally but I'd still encourage everyone in the company to pursue something elsewhere, if they can. I understand the guys/girls who has limited options or actually have found a base/situation they've managed to sort their life in. Good for them. Anyone else hoping that something will change; It won't.

I'd rather stop flying than return there.

[Denti]

600 ++ Ex Air Berlin B737 rated pilots should sort out any shortages. Seen it all before with Air Europe, for those who can remember.

There might be a slight problem with that. Air Berlin operates an Airbus only fleet. So those pilots are Airbus rated. Yes, a few kept their old 737 rating active, but most didn't. Still, yes, Ryanair was the first to offer a job to AB pilots, 2 hours after the news broke about the brankruptcy they had a job offer in their Linkedin inboxes. Base of choice, direct contract with Ryanair, 20.000€ signing bonus and €130k a year (at 900 hours though).

[RAT 5]

What happened to the old pre-EASA 'trick' of zeroing pilots hours at the start old pre- financial year in April? Is that still allowed, or do all pilots, and rostering, keep a rolling 7 day, 28 day, 90 day + annual total? If the zeroing policy was stopped that would have an impact on increasing pilot numbers.

There is some irony here. RYR is a cash machine. They fly >90m pax. Recently they introduced a €2 'seat choice' charge. About 40m pax take up the option. K-ching. The profits rise €80m. No R&D investment; no improvement in product; no capital investment and profits rise by nearly 10%. Brilliant. And if you lower T's & C's as well, at no cost, then profits rise even more. The irony is that 5 years go, after the Volcanic ash affair, they added a €2 charge for 'EU261 compensation' bills. They claimed that affair had cost them €60-80m. Over the past 5 years there has not been a repeat, but every year €160m went into the kitty. K-ching at no extra cost. Now, by their own hand, they will have to dip into that kitty and spend out some of that EU261 insurance premium. It'll be like pulling teeth, but it will need to be done.
One wonders what will be the next €2 add on to recover profits. It is an astonishing business to be able to boost profits by 10% at no investment cost or improvement to the product, just by an inconspicuous € here & € there. Think what €1 could do to provide a proper pension fund & proper T's & C's. and stop crews having to pay for their own recurrent training and associated travel costs etc. etc. They might even then have enough pilots and not have to pay EU261 compensations. i.e. money invested wisely and productively instead of being spent painfully to achieve only negative PR outcomes.

[Bravo Zulu]

Sounds like the wheels are finally falling off at Ryanair....!

[eduelp]

Don't worry, as usual, dozens of their contractors will come to the rescue flying on their month off and thinking that they are making "extra hours" that way. My colleagues still there already told me about a few cases.

Poor ignorants.... RYR pilots have always lacked balls.

[smith]

Oh, grow up! Tell that to the bank and your family who's house will be taken away after you've bounded it to a loan if you don't start working. It's the management's fault. Sickening stuff goes on there. They're working in their office with slides and pool tables in blissful ignorance while people are having their careers ruined and their lives as well.

Yeah sickening stuff goes on but people have been aware of this for years and still sign the dotted line. I'm talking about the youngsters who don't have a mortgage and no debts as mum and dad payed their training. These are the ones that will trample over anyone and drop their pants to their ankles. The secret is to get a decent job before you get a mortgage. No sympathy for FR merecenaries.

[TheMightyAtom]

So if you had a freshly minted CPL/IR in hand, you would gladly stay in the dole queue rather than kick start your career with Ryanair assuming there was no other option? It seems hard to believe that someone would be so noble in the face of having their career, potentially permanently, put on hiatus. Are we also supposed to believe that someone who, through sheer circumstance and good fortune ended up in a pleasant company enjoying generous T&Cs that their predecessors have fought for, are simply made of sterner stuff - if they were to end up in the position of a Ryanair pilot, their unstoppable willpower and sense of decency would stop the rot, not like those thousands of cowards who currently work there, sobbing during the pushback, absolutely incapable of improving their situation because they lack the cast iron balls of those gentlemen aviators in Air Utopia.

[slowjet]

My posts keep being deleted so this one may not stay up for long. But, a gentle reminder, chaps. Airlines are not in business to employ pilots. We jump on the band waggon . Top stars were here today, gone tomorrow; Laker (BUA/Laker Airways), Bristow,Goodman etc, etc.They and those of today are all top performing aces in the industry, within their field. Entrepreneurs out to make a lot of money and hugely successful in their pursuits. "We" hitch our wagons to those shooting stars and must accept the fall-out when, in "our" field, it all goes belly up.


As "commercial" pilots, go wherever it suits you & be prepared to jump wherever the grass looks greener. The loyalty cards became extinct, decades ago.


I still serve on Selection Boards in a consultancy role . I still hear CP's asking "How long do you intend staying with us ?". I stifle a giggle into my sleeve.

[Skyjob]

There might be a slight problem with that. Air Berlin operates an Airbus only fleet. So those pilots are Airbus rated. Yes, a few kept their old 737 rating active, but most didn't. Still, yes, Ryanair was the first to offer a job to AB pilots, 2 hours after the news broke about the brankruptcy they had a job offer in their Linkedin inboxes. Base of choice, direct contract with Ryanair, 20.000€ signing bonus and €130k a year (at 900 hours though).

More than what their own pilots now earn in some bases, good offer!

[Faldo]

Ha ha ha ha ha At last the arrogant self important Irishman can see what happens when
you treat one of your most important employee groups, the pilots, like under paid overworked
taxi drivers ! I hope your unfortunate customers remember your total disregard for them when
they next book a ticket with you.

[fmgc]

As "commercial" pilots, go wherever it suits you & be prepared to jump wherever the grass looks greener. The loyalty cards became extinct, decades ago.



But that is not always possible as many of the more sought after jobs are in airlines with seniority.

Seniority is massively to blame for this industry's woes. It thwarts job mobility and so traps those in seniority based airlines and stops movement of experienced (Captains) pilots into seniority based airlines allowing the likes of FR to take advantage.

Yet the unions still push seniority as all pilots have is industrial might and so protects the unions' membership levels.

[Skyjob]

AGREED 100%

[Can737]

But that is not always possible as many of the more sought after jobs are in airlines with seniority.

Seniority is great when you want to keep all the backstabbing whores out of the CP office.
Nice to see that karma is b***, even with RYR. I am getting a popcorn and I plan to enjoy the show.

[babemagnet]

Anybody heard that Ray (Rene for the dutch) Conway has resigned!?

[doniedarko]

As far as I know it was a gross misconduct offence for a ryr pilot to delay a flight for non operational reasons.
One wonders if any management will suffer (position or bonus) at the hands of the shareholders.
Who if any should take the blame for this ? CEO / Director of flight ops / personnel ......or maybe we should blame pilots for leaving / not joining or taking holidays 😀

[Say Mach Number]

If Ray has resigned genuinely sorry to hear that.

However what is clear is that the lunatics that took over the asylum were never going to blame themselves.

[jeehaa]

Seems like a hoax though

[dan1165]

Titanic is sinking :}

[CaptainSensible]

They make the profit that most Airlines can only dream of and still not enough. When eventually all the facts are known it'll probably be used as a lesson during business courses.

[fr666andback]

According to this article in the Guardian, "The airline is changing its internal calendar as part of increases in holiday allowances for pilots and cabin staff, which has contributed to the backlog." Anyone noticed "increases in holiday allowances" recently?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/16/ryanair-cancels-up-to-50-flights-a-day-to-improve-punctuality

In case of cabin crew their “holidays” it’s an unpaid leave….

[RAT 5]

They make the profit that most Airlines can only dream of and still not enough.

LH, AF/KLM USA companies all make handsome profits and have hugely better T's & C's. Why does anyone think they can reinvent the wheel? True, much good has come out of the LOCo revolution. High priced cartels have been broken; pax have benefitted. The majors have responded and cut their cloth accordingly, but not too much to tarnish their product. Pax & workers knew they were unsustainable. I've mates in various large majors and yes, they do work more hours than they used to, and retire later, but their deals are light years ahead of the LoCo's, they still make good profits and mostly the employees are happy; because they see what is going on on the outside. It was all cosy & rosy now it's a fair days pay for a fair days work and the fringe benefits still remain.

[Globally Challenged]

Difficult to apply any of that to Alex Cruz's work on BA

[jeehaa]

It seems that RYR has stopped sending updates about cancellations to the ScoreBuddy website in order to try to stop bad publicity

https://www.cloud.scorebuddy.co.uk/ryanair-services/cancellations.php?date=2017-09-17

[Jaair]

6 weeks? Sounds like RYR are biting their lips hard till the season is over and won't be needing as many pilots. Their Facebook reviews page has turned out quite interesting..

And that sign up bonus must be coming from the profit made from the cadet TR?

[TheMightyAtom]

I believe next week is the AGM, this should prove interesting

[HundredPercentPlease]

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/long-running-row-over-definition-of-calendar-year-behind-ryanair-cancellations-1.3223808?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[RAT 5]

It really is a 'spin too far' to try and pin the blame for this fiasco on 'over paid & underworked pilots' (only 18hours/week according to some RYR claims) who are now having to have extra holiday imposed by the IAA & EASA. 'It is out of our control and not our fault.'

Who was it that said, "you should keep quiet and let people thing you are a fool rather than open your mouth.........

How is the training dept staffed up to create enough new cadets & commands before the next wave of a/c arrive? Don't these trainers also need holidays? Indeed, do they have enough sims even?

[TheMightyAtom]

It really is a 'spin too far' to try and pin the blame for this fiasco on 'over paid & underworked pilots' (only 18hours/week according to some RYR claims) who are now having to have extra holiday imposed by the IAA & EASA. 'It is out of our control and not our fault.'

Who was it that said, "you should keep quiet and let people thing you are a fool rather than open your mouth.........

How is the training dept staffed up to create enough new cadets & commands before the next wave of a/c arrive? Don't these trainers also need holidays? Indeed, do they have enough sims even?

Apparantly the training department is struggling too, allegedly dire need for LTCs but no capacity to SIM them and nobody wants to be an SFI because most never fly and are constantly hounded to work days off and do favours for nothing in return.

[its easy]

I'd suggest that anyone who works for Ryanair and also knows the reality of what's going on to cause this contacts one of the many outlets that reported it.
I know they are very keen and your anonymity will be guaranteed.
Telegraph
Sky
Guardian to name a few.

This is the perfect opportunity to shine a light on what is the Ryanair experience.

Best wishes

[GScapture]

I'd suggest that anyone who works for Ryanair and also knows the reality of what's going on to cause this contacts one of the many outlets that reported it.
I know they are very keen and your anonymity will be guaranteed.
Telegraph
Sky
Guardian to name a few.

This is the perfect opportunity to shine a light on what is the Ryanair experience.

Best wishes

Agreed 100% above.

[Can737]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/130092747727926/

[Scuderia46]

Justice is served ice cold. I sincerely hope everyone puts a claim in and let this bunch of thieves bleed. Crew leaves for a reason, now it's time to face reality.

[jeehaa]

Funny it's mentioned to be 6 weeks - exactely when the winter schedule starts for which less people are needed anyway due to the grounding of airframes. So the actual problem will be disguised as 50-60 airplanes will be on the ground from that moment on...

[skyflyer737]

Just to clear up the rumours - no one has resigned or walked out, such as crew controllers or the Chief Pilot.

Cock up over annual leave / flight cancellations? Yes.

Wheels falling off wagon / armageddon? No.

[RAT 5]

How does the IAA view this situation? RYR are knowingly selling tickets for 100% of their flights while at the same time saying 40-80 i.e. about 2% per day will be cancelled eventually; and that those affected pax overseas will be stranded for an indefinite period. This is not the same as over selling a flight and then being bumped. It is selling a product you can not guarantee to provide.
If a charter flight, which was an out/back with same pax, is cancelled for whatever reason, the host airline would have a rescue a/c en-route ASAP. The same is happening into the Caribbean to rescue pax stranded from schedule flights. Here we have a situation where the pax will be stranded directly as a result of the host airline's fault & last minute decision.
Surely the IAA have some influence on the financial & social operating behaviour of a local airline?

Can someone answer, with authority, what 'full refund' means? Is it the ticket price or the total amount you paid? The latter can be nearly double the former. There is a question about compensation payments. Considering those whose work schedule & income will be affected by being stranded overseas the figures could be significant. Even where children miss out school and parents are fined. The variety of people & their lives & responsibilities that could be affected is huge. How many will not take the risk of booking a return flight within the next 6 weeks?

[dgoliver]

Ultimately the CAA is to blame for allowing low cost airlines to max out their crews' rosters in pursuit of maximum profit. This is a safety related issue rather than an economic issue. The CAA must bring FTL's into the 21st century to combat ruthless low cost airline management practices.
Airline fatigue needs addressing now.

[Reversethrustset]

dgoliver, you'll be waiting for hell to freeze over before any authority does anything about that. You and I both know how these things work, the authority is reactionary, I.e. it will take a smoking hole in the ground for them to even consider a change. Can't you remember the new EASA FTLs doing the rounds through the European courts a few years ago? Something they fought so hard to implement won't be handed back on a plate.

[Podcast]

The authority is part of the system. The only thing that matters is that everything is legal (legal does not necessary mean moral).

[Talewind]

Wouldn't surprise me if they always knew they'd never be able to crew these flights. Just didn't want competitors getting the business. Would prefer to lose cash on compensation payouts as opposed to allow competitiors to grow their market share.

I'd love to see the minutes of their meetings.

[skyloone]

In general, I've always wondered who says a companies minutes reflect what was said or indeed intended...

[OutsideCAS]

I'd love to see the minutes of their meetings.


In a legal dispute that may arise for a company, the court may well request such details. Companies are legally bound I think, to keep records of such meetings for 10 years?.

[jayteeto]

Skyline hit the nail perfectly. I often read minutes wondering if I had been to the same meeting!
What about the famous line:

"OK, this next one isn't for the minutes "

[grafity]

Wouldn't surprise me if they always knew they'd never be able to crew these flights. Just didn't want competitors getting the business. Would prefer to lose cash on compensation payouts as opposed to allow competitiors to grow their market share.

I'd love to see the minutes of their meetings.

I would presume that Ryanair are the type of management style that just dump a rediculous expectation on their subordinates desk, then sit back and take the credit when their staff perform a miracle for them.
Every so often the practice gets pushed a step too far and you get a situation like this.

[Ryanairpilot]

skyflyer737 your optimism is admirable. I have no knowledge of the comings and goings in DUB so will believe nothing either way until I hear directly from official sources.

However - the company declared 40-50 flights cancelled daily. But in reality that is starting to look like Ryanairspeak for 40-50 RETURN flights. ie 80-100 sectors which makes up 5% of 1600 daily sectors. that's 600,000 to 800,000 affected passengers over 6 weeks. If that's not the wheels coming off what is?

Also annual leave was pro-rated for April to December. Why is that all of a sudden a problem?

There's much more to this.

[TheMightyAtom]

By my calculation it was pro rated and rounded down so surely they should be laughing

[littco]

If you didn't have a shortage of crew you wouldn't have to cancel flights. The latest admission " we messed up holidays " is just another excuse, far easier to say that than admit they don't have enough pilots.

They don't have enough crew to cover holidays and therefore they are short crewed and if they admit, which the wont, then they will have to change the T/C's .. signing bonus, DE positions are all smoke screens to try and dig there way out before they are found out and have to face the truth and actually do something totally against there recruitment policies ie treat pilots properly

[Say Mach Number]

Spot on 'littco' nailed it 100%.

[UAV689]

Will be interesting to see what happens with the deliveries....I hope Boeing force them to re-start the deliveries, I am sure Boeing won't be doing any favours especially with the way Ryan have bargained with them.

I think they are being optimistic think the winter schedule will save them, and the ticker being reset in January, as the rolling 1000 yr year will cause them problems.

Not to mention they need to open the holiday year still for next year which they are yet to do....

Fingers crossed for the end of mol.

[Greenlights]

Just to clear up the rumours - no one has resigned or walked out, such as crew controllers or the Chief Pilot.

Cock up over annual leave / flight cancellations? Yes.

Wheels falling off wagon / armageddon? No.

lol, we have a wyanair manager or stockholms syndrome here.
Prove it then ?
It is not what I read on other forums (french for exemple) from wyanair pilots.

[littco]

Their whole business model would need to be change.... remember they are accountable to the board and the share holders. Any indications that business models would need adjustment is going to put shareholders and the share price into frenzy.. If you appreciate that the people that hold shares are doing so to make money and invested with that in mind. If they feel things are going to change and profits are going to affected as well then I can easily see the share price heading south very quickly.

[Kirk out]

Haha...well done MOL....

Round to the Ratners' for Christmas this year is it....

[Binder]

Presumably wet leasing/subbing out is not an option?

[Greenlights]

Or perhaps Ryanair's ideological hatred of pilots meant they would rather cut their nose of to spite their face and pay compensation rather than improve T&Cs.

that's the point.
it's just a business for cash.
They will not improve anything, they will just focus on another business area.
Pilots think too much with their heart, and passion. It is a long time ago that aviation is dead.
aviation is just a business like any others to make some cash flow. Once the business is dead, they will find another one....and so on.

[Can737]

Presumably wet leasing/subbing out is not an option?

That would mean PAX getting decent service and respect? MOL can't afford that.

Just to clear up the rumours - no one has resigned or walked out, such as crew controllers or the Chief Pilot.

Cock up over annual leave / flight cancellations? Yes.

Wheels falling off wagon / armageddon? No.

You really need to slowdown on the koolaid https://bobramseyseminars.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/kool-aid-man.jpg

[Callsign Kilo]

The whole 'answering to shareholders' scenario is a bit void in my opinion. The major shareholders are fully aware of the company's employment relations model (or lack of one). They are more than aware that FR has one of the lowest cost bases when it comes to 'employee' overheads. The fact that FR finds itself regularly in hot water regarding its employment practices, whether directly or indirectly, doesn't seem to phase them. It's been like this for years.

Ryanair's PR machine will fight to the bitter end to deflect this away from being 'a crewing problem.' They are already publicising it 'as an issue with pilot's annual leave.' So what do Mr & Mrs Joe Public get to think? "Those pesky pilots are ruining my holiday for the sake of theirs.'

MOL will walk away from this. The top people working in HR & Flt Ops will still be employeed as 'Z team' stalwarts. One thing that won't happen is seeing any notable shift in the favour of FR pilots. Facing the true problem head on admitts defeat and that's one thing O'Leary won't do. Besides being a bit pissed, I can't see the major shareholders holding his feet to the fire on this one. He'll throw a few scapegoats to the wolves and say that they'll have the problem sorted in 6 weeks. Easier to blame EASA FTLs as no one understands those!

[jeehaa]

According to the own uploaded pdf files on their website, it does look like 50-60 sectors (25-30 flight pairs ) each day, at least until wednesday.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Ryanair are allocating leave, nice to see the crews have a choice when they take it.....

[Can737]

http://www.rte.ie/amp/905380/

[Vokes55]

I feel like competitors are really missing a trick here. They could offer customers a £20-30 discount on flights over the next six weeks on production of a valid Ryanair ticket on the same route/date. They'd get plenty of worried Ryanair passengers booking flights, which takes ancillary revenue away from Ryanair and boosts their own load factors, whilst showing the goodwill that Ryanair clearly don't.

[spaflyer]

I've applied to them through CAE, and didn´t even bother to call me for an Interview, even if I met all their requirments, so I´m not surprised... :(

[Greenlights]

why applying there ? are you serious?
it's really not the moment to apply there. You have choice now. Yes it's not easy, but you do have choice.
Everybody should stop sending applications to them. :E

[The Old Fat One]

Just a over a week ago MOL predicted (ranted) Norwegian (and Monarch) were going bust, apparently - according to Norwegian - because he is upset they are recruiting all his pilots.

Norwegian on Ryanair attack: O'Leary is bitter about losing his pilots to us - Business Insider Nordic (http://nordic.businessinsider.com/norwegian-on-ryanair-attack-oleary-was-bitter-for-losing-his-pilots-to-us-2017-9)

Now this...hmmm. In the words of the X -Factor, The Truth is Out There.

Anyway, lots of pilot jobs at Norwegian apparently

Norwegian careers (http://careers.norwegian.com/pilot)

PS Including in Dublin :)

PPS Of course I meant X-files; just trying to lighten the mood :)

[beachbumflyer]

why applying there ? are you serious?
it's really not the moment to apply there. You have choice now. Yes it's not easy, but you do have choice.
Everybody should stop sending applications to them. :E

That's right, everybody should stop sending applications to them. May be this way they will react and improve T&C'c.

[CaptainJim]

As I said, they have access to a lot of crew, simply call those FO's back who were command ready and put them straight on the command course, most would jump at the chance.

Like yourself you mean?
What happens after you get your Cmd, faraway Green hills await? Let me guess the desert isn't as you expected.

[slack]

Sounds like the wheels are finally falling off at Ryanair....!

And about time. This little nome is nothing but a crook. How he ever gets anyone to fill a pilot seat or pax seat is beyond me. In days long past this :mad: would be drawn and quartered.

[RAT 5]

RYR say they are sending e-mails to all affected pax a coupe of days before their flights. The numbers are staggering. 50-80 flights/day at 180pax/flt = 1400-ish emails a day. Who do they employ, if anyone, to handle this monumental task? Firstly someone has to decide which flights are cancelled and then convey the information. If RYR has staff levels cut to the bone who is spare to action this unexpected task? Not only that, all the ticket refund & compensation & expense refund claims that will be coming in. Swamped and drowning doesn't seem to describe it.

[Vokes55]

I'm sure it's a generic email that they can bulk send to everybody on a flight at the click of a button. I hope it isn't though, would be even more pleasing to see staff overworked and discontent in HQ as well.

[D Bru]

Quote: "I would applaud the flight deck person who came on the PA and said "We've all got crap wages so would you all please put £10 in the hat as it goes round and I will ensure it gets shared fairly amongst us".

Perhaps off topic, but comment nonetheless: This is what I remember from flying around in Russia just after the "change" 1991/1992. Only the hat didn't go around for topping up crew wages, but for topping up fuel levels to actually perform the flight for which one held tickets.

[111boy]

Swamped and drowning doesn't seem to describe it...
perfect well said.
I love that they said its not about staff shortages ....... Liars

This will mean that the travelling public will hate and mistrust rhem just a bit more

[D Bru]

Funny it's mentioned to be 6 weeks - exactely when the winter schedule starts for which less people are needed anyway due to the grounding of airframes. So the actual problem will be disguised as 50-60 airplanes will be on the ground from that moment on...

Good point

[Alpine Flyer]

What happened to the old pre-EASA 'trick' of zeroing pilots hours at the start old pre- financial year in April? Is that still allowed, or do all pilots, and rostering, keep a rolling 7 day, 28 day, 90 day + annual total? If the zeroing policy was stopped that would have an impact on increasing pilot numbers.


Since 2016 there's an additional limit of 1000 hrs in any 12 consecutive calendar months that prevents that.

[BusAirDriver]

This seems to be a strategic move by Ryanair, it would not surprise me if they are making a strategic forced Leave / Holiday for their crew during this Off Peak season, to make sure they have crew later this year during Peak winter season that still have hours left they can work on.

[EIPCW]

Hitler finds out Ryanair is cancelling flights - Caption Generator (http://www.captiongenerator.com/692732/Hitler-finds-out-Ryanair-is-cancelling-flights)

[UAV689]

Where is rpg in this great opportunity....

[littco]

Stock markets open 20 minutes and share price already down 3.5%!

671,000 shares ditch at opening.

Also noticed that MOL sold 4million shares on the 17thjune for £76million!

[Greenlights]

Stock markets open 20 minutes and share price already down 3.5%!


this is awsome :E

[flash8]

Nothing like some great news to start the day with :)

[Paulie Walnuts]

Where is rpg in this great opportunity....

Probably the most pertinent question asked on this forum so far! Their silence is deafening

[anderse]

Looks like the pilots is pissed off as well:


Dear Mr Hickey,

I am the ERC for the XXX-base and I am writing to you to inform you that today the ERCs of Italy have voted to reject your offer of temporary increased pay to tackle the pilot shortage issues we are facing.

We believe that these issues we are facing are only symptoms of a much bigger problem. This problem is caused by the complete failure of the senior managers of Ryanair to construct a solid employee base and IT structure to support the growth of the airline. We believe that continuing to patch up the symptoms of this problem are eventually going to lead to a major and possibly unrecoverable collapse in the service we provide. We are not prepared to follow these strategies any longer.

We now request from you:

Document One: A commitment to have a first draft Italian Employee Contract for all pilots and cabin crew based in Italy and to have a final draft ready for the summer season 2018.

Document Two: A draft plan and commitment to supply the resources (increased staff numbers, proper training and modern software) necessary to adequately staff the supporting departments of the company (crew control, rostering, payrol, maintrol etc.) and create renumeration packages for these staff members which will encourage them to remain in their positions gaining experience and developing into the world class support structure we need.

We believe the root cause of the problem is simply that the CEO, backed by the senior management team have, for decades, been blindly chasing the lowest possible fare while neglecting other critical aspects of building an organisation.

The above documents must be signed by the board of directors.

These issues affect the quality of the lives of the 10,000 crew members who are the engine of this company. We work hard for the company, many of us for many years. We work off days. We accept roster changes in the middle of the night. We fly rescue missions. We fill the gaps often paying for phone calls and taxis out of our own pocket... etc. And we do this almost entirely without any complaint. We are proud to be part of this dynamic company and we look forward to building the future.

Unfortunately we are not able to organise a company wide discussion on this topic, obviously it would be ideal to send this letter signed by all of the ERCs including all of their ideas but it is currently impossible. We encourage our colleagues in other bases and countries to take a similar stance and start now to demand the structures required to permanently solve these issues and take this company safely to the next stages of planned growth.

Best Regards,
XXX


And this:
Dear Diarmuid,

It’s now almost 4 weeks you came to CRL.
With Laurent, you agreed to organize a formal first meeting with the new CRL’s ERC team before end of September.
At this date we don’t see any meeting appearing on our rosters.

We kindly ask you to organize that meeting as soon as possible. We start to have difficulties to give positive signs to our colleagues about their future with Ryanair.
When we tell them that we have not yet started to work together we are usually facing disappointment or even sometimes some anger.
And last memo from the COO doesn't help to keep people happy. The fear of not keeping the 5/4 roster increases the pressure on them and may lead to unsafe situations.
On top of that we continue to be challenged about the following topics :

In case of out base duty, more and more colleagues are not receiving the support they are expecting from Crew control. No hotel booked or hotels booked via touristic website such as "booking.com". Someimes they even don't have the standard required by Part A. And of course not, as usual, not prepaid.
Taxi’s to/from Airports are never booked.
Overnight allowance is no longer in line with the actual cost of hotel / restaurant meal. If you consider lunch + dinner it’s even worst.
Very slow or inaccurate procedure to recover money after out of base duty.
Had/hoc leave system is useless as even « green days » are never available and Rostering takes up to 3 weeks to denied an available period in the system.
Moodles training is not yet included in duty time or considered as a duty.
Staff parking is not accessible to trainees at CRL and the cost of passenger ‘s parking is prohibitive for cadets.
Piltos ask us to clarify the situation concerning the 10.000 € incentive for new pilots. Sector pay keeps to decrease throughout the years. Are you going to give that incentive to the crews helping the company to make massive benefits for many years?
it is now mid-september and still no possibility to apply for annual leave for next year. Pilots are getting stressed by the situation. Many of them are complaining about family pressure leading once more to unsafe situations.

As you can see, there is major points to be discussed as soon as possible.
Looking forward to seeing you in a near future,

Best Regards,

The CRL Reps,

Someone who knows the deal the pilots in Italy have been offered?

[Greenlights]

Am I the only who think the CEO should resign ? It's time to rebuild this airline on better fundations.
I enjoy not hearing this Oleary claiming his model is the best blablabla. Now he is not playing smart anymore :E

[RichardBeeb]

Does anyone have an informed view on the impact a shortage of pilots might have had? Full disclosure, I'm the BBC Transport Correspondent...no names or quotes etc, just interested to know [email protected]

[GScapture]

Hope that the pilots will get together collectively in every major base and start demanding better t&c's. They have the manpower to do it. Perhaps they've already done it, we might see some strikes here and there in future if FR will continue ignoring them.

-GS-

[GScapture]

Does anyone have an informed view on the impact a shortage of pilots might have had? Full disclosure, I'm the BBC Transport Correspondent...no names or quotes etc, just interested to know [email protected]

I'm sure there are plenty of guys who know about the current situation and also the reasons for pilots leaving and personnel policies in general. What Ryanair does is a disgrace in the industry.

[vikingivesterled]

From quotes:
A draft plan and commitment to supply the resources (increased staff numbers, proper training and modern software) necessary to adequately staff the supporting departments of the company (crew control, rostering, payrol, maintrol etc.)
not receiving the support they are expecting from Crew control. No hotel booked or hotels booked via touristic website
Taxi’s to/from Airports are never booked.


Find it strange these things are not automated since all these requirements are in modules offered by Netline Crew, including long term staffing needs. Wonder if it is a cost issue of who pays, or a worked in practise of much manual interference with a too short time horizon.

[Say Mach Number]

They save on admin staff costs by getting the pilots to be their own secretary and book their own everything basically.

This works on a very limited basis but now the demand to send Ryanair full time contracted pilots out of base has become so great the admin departments that do exist are still (I guess) at the staffing levels when the airline was a fraction of the size it is now.

When an airline grows everything has to grow with it and thats doesn't seem to have happened when it comes to the basic admin areas of the airline.

[BehindBlueEyes]

Ryanair under pressure to publish full list of cancelled flights - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41304456)


"Reports on Monday suggested recruitment problems were affecting the airline and that it had lost pilots to rival Norwegian Air.
A Norwegian spokesperson said: "We can confirm that 140 pilots have joined us from Ryanair this year. Pilot recruitment is also underway for more pilots for our new Dublin base opening later this year."
Ryanair has not issued a response to the claims."

Interesting last line - MOL is not not normally known for his lack of words!

[arivideccii]

Where is rpg in this great opportunity....

Doesn't exists anymore. They stopped it about a year ago because of a lack of (new) people joining. Loads who had joined in the beginning moved on to a better place..
Last email they sent out was saying to join local ALPA

[The Old Fat One]

Interesting last line - MOL is not not normally known for his lack of words!

He did comment - 10 days or so ago before all this kicked off publicly.

If you follow my link at #151 you'll get a flavor of his response.

[babemagnet]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/over-700-pilots-left-ryanair-in-last-financial-year-1.3225145?mode=amp

[Northern Monkey]

Does anyone have an informed view on the impact a shortage of pilots might have had? Full disclosure, I'm the BBC Transport Correspondent...no names or quotes etc, just interested to know [email protected]

Having established that there are large numbers of pilots leaving Ryanair, I think the principle question should be, quite simply, why?

What proportion of Ryanair pilots are employed through an Agency, or through so-called "self employment"? If it was me and I had the opportunity to jump ship and move to a more secure contract elsewhere I'd be gone in a heartbeat.

[Cows getting bigger]

It was always going to be that way. During the 'dark ages' Ryanair were the only people hiring - they could call the shots. Enter the period where jobs abound (apparently) and you then get a far more fluid human resource market. Pilots who have cut their teeth with Ryanair will undoubtedly look for the next step up their career ladder. Ryanair has never really offered career options. Of course, MOL's solution is to just shop around for more 200hr fodder from the flying schools; pity they can't keep up.

There's a skill fade issue here, not just for Ryanair. What accident was the catalyst in USA for revisiting qualifications and experience?

[Jet II]

Havent Ryanair had a high turnover of pilots since they started on the Lo-Co business model. From what I know of people who worked there they are mainly used by newly qualified pilots for hour building before they move on to a 'real' job.

Is the present leaving situation any worse than it always has been?

[hoss183]

Also noticed that MOL sold 4million shares on the 17thjune for £76million!
Isn't that insider dealing?

[box]

Here a quote from the German news magazin "Der Spiegel" about the issue (translated by google):

"It is also speculated about a completely different background: According to the aviation expert Gerald Wissel from the consulting company Airborne, Ryanair is preparing for the possible case that the insolvent Air Berlin must stop its flight operation from lack of money prematurely.
"In the case of a premature 'grounding' of Air Berlin, the coveted start and land rights would have to be immediately given again by the responsible coordinator of the Federal Republic," Wissel told the Deutsche Presse-Agentur. The surcharge could only be received by companies, which could then also fly with corresponding aircraft the routes. Ryanair wanted some machines in the hindquarters.
The Irish company withdrew from bidding for the insolvent airline at the end of August. Criticism nevertheless reaped her: Berlin's Governing Mayor Michael Miiller, the airline as an "anti-business enterprise" with a "early capitalist" business model. Economically, Ryanair is currently in a good position: its second quarter, from April to the end of June, the low-cost airline closed with a net profit of 397 million euros." [SIC]

[annakm]

Good thing Ryanair made a healthy profit - they'll be needing some readies for this:

Ryanair faces 20m euros compensation bill over cancellations - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41304456)

[JetpoweredMigrantWkr]

It was always going to be that way. During the 'dark ages' Ryanair were the only people hiring - they could call the shots. Enter the period where jobs abound (apparently) and you then get a far more fluid human resource market. Pilots who have cut their teeth with Ryanair will undoubtedly look for the next step up their career ladder. Ryanair has never really offered career options. Of course, MOL's solution is to just shop around for more 200hr fodder from the flying schools; pity they can't keep up.

There's a skill fade issue here, not just for Ryanair. What accident was the catalyst in USA for revisiting qualifications and experience?

It was Colgan Air Flight 3407.
Now, you must have 1500hrs min to get hired anywhere in the USA.

[BehindBlueEyes]

As referred to before in this thread, a quote from the latest BBC update.

'One anonymous Ryanair pilot has told the BBC that the leave issue is a red herring and that the root cause of the problem is that too many pilots are leaving Ryanair and the company is struggling to train up new crew.'

[Can737]

This is the price for treating employees like trash.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/cancellation-fiasco-and-eu-court-woes-wipe-2bn-off-ryanair-value-1.3224945?mode=amp

[Can737]

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/ryanair-announce-emergency-measures-to-keep-pilots-1.3225116?mode=amp



Ryanair have announced a series of emergency personnel measures to ease the pressure on the raft of flight cancellations the company has made since Friday.

The airline, which also announced it would publish all flight cancellations through October by the end of the day, plans to buy back annual leave from pilots to ease pressure the company’s chief executive, Michael O’Leary, said on Monday.

Commenting on the ongoing uncertainty Mr O’Leary said that while the airline doesn’t have a pilot shortage, other airlines are poaching pilots. It therefore plans to recruit pilots from both Air Berlin and Alitalia.

Speaking on a call with analysts, Mr O’Leary also said the company plans to introduce pilot loyalty bonuses in an effort to keep its crew.

Mr O’Leary said its flight cancellations “will have a reputational impact” and noted that punctuality performance at the airline had dropped to between 60 and 70 per cent.

Ryanair, which now expects compensation claims of up to €20 million, moved on Friday to say it will operate a programme of flight cancellations over the next six weeks because of pilot shortage difficulties. The disruptions to its flights schedule will affect thousands of travellers, including some who are abroad and are expecting to return home with the airline.

[dan1165]

I want MOL in my office for tea & biscuits :E

[Vokes55]

Mr O'Leary can say he will recruit pilots from wherever he wants. There will still be a shortage of trainers to get them onto the line - and there's a shortage of trainers to train any new trainers. It's a spiral that will be very very difficult now for Ryanair to get out of, and we will either see aircraft parked up or mass cancellations again next Summer.

[JetpoweredMigrantWkr]

Commenting on the ongoing uncertainty Mr O’Leary said that while the airline doesn’t have a pilot shortage, other airlines are poaching pilots. It therefore plans to recruit pilots from both Air Berlin and Alitalia.

Speaking on a call with analysts, Mr O’Leary also said the company plans to introduce pilot loyalty bonuses in an effort to keep its crew.

No one would be able to "poach" hundreds of pilots from Ryan Air if they had better T&C at Ryan Air...

[Skyjob]

Good thing Ryanair made a healthy profit - they'll be needing some readies for this:

Ryanair faces 20m euros compensation bill over cancellations - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41304456)

€20.000.000 divided by 4.500 pilots would be a €4,444 pay rise each, which could've avoided the situation maybe?

[Can737]

€20.000.000 divided by 4.500 pilots would be a €4,444 pay rise each, which could've avoided the situation maybe?

Add to that public mistrust in the airline, all the people not booking at the moment, 20M is a small number IMO, they are going to loose much more in the coming weeks.

[Ryanairpilot]

"It therefore plans to recruit pilots from both Air Berlin and Alitalia."

I wonder if the Air Berlin and Alitalia pilots are aware of this wonderful offer.

Cue massively over inflated binding bid for Alitalia just to get the pilots.

[RudderTrimZero]

And right till this day experienced FOs are being charged €35,000 for a TR that costs the company no more than $12,000. RYR deserves everything it gets.

[UAV689]

All well and good the erc getting together. Shame for the contractors who have no such forum.

[UAV689]

It will cost way more than 20m euro. The lost goodwill alone will cost that at least. Would you really want to be booking a ryanair flight in the run up to xmas if you were not sure it would get you there?

And imagine the lost money from the lost scratch card sales on those cancelled flights!!! Sorry, lost charity donations I meant to say. Because of course it goes to charity.

The charitable MOL horse racing fund.

[Well Used]

The press need to start digging a little deeper into this, as ex Ryan I'm glad to be out of it and have a more relaxed pace where I am. Its the trainers that are suffering at my current airline and suffering terribly. The line Joe's have it easy. Ryan was hard work even on the 5/4.

[RAT 5]

€20.000.000 divided by 4.500 pilots would be a €4,444 pay rise each, which could've avoided the situation maybe?

I doubt it. That is 2 weeks pay for a proper pilot. Any acceptees must be cheap-skates.

[BehindBlueEyes]

It's also funny how popular (:}) MOL seems to be on a personal level on here. No one generally minds a smart businessman, but I guess it's how they go about it?

Apologies for the poor quality, but I do like this Ryanair Song:

https://youtu.be/c_nqwAKCq-Q

[cowhorse]

It was Colgan Air Flight 3407.
Now, you must have 1500hrs min to get hired anywhere in the USA.

IMO this had more to do with politics (unions) than flight safety - Colgan Air is an example of an accident due to extreme fatigue not inexperience.

And O'Reilly can simply show Ryanair's safety record and shut down the debate.

[The Old Fat One]

Sadly the general public will forget in a few months

True dat

Airlines of every shape and size know that the global pax/tourist flyer market (which is expanding at a phenomenal rate, esp in Asia) will tolerate almost anything when it comes to getting them to exotic destinations that their grandparents would only ever see in James Bond movies. It is not just MOL and Ryanair that know this...they all do and as profit -seeking businesses it is their primary function to exploit this to the best return for their shareholders and/or owners.

It is the regulators job to ensure they play by the rules, as it is in so many industries.

As for the individual...well we have freedom of choice both as pilots and as pax.

If you don't like Ryanair, don't work for them and don't fly with them.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, but certainly today a great deal of humble pie (sincere...I doubt it) is being eaten. Which suggests to me a slight degree of panic, and I suspect the fear of a mass migration of pilots to their immediate competitors, may be their biggest concern. Concern over screwing over the masses...nah, they all do it that, BA just a few months ago.

[RobsonCanolo]

Looks like the pilots is pissed off as well:





And this:


Someone who knows the deal the pilots in Italy have been offered?

Not able to answer your question but just need to point out that the common view in house, at least from pilots earlier is that the ERC (Employee Rep Committee) it is merely an exercise of ticking the box that Ryanair is having negotiations whith staff while indented to be totally ineffective.

[Util BUS]

It will be interesting to see how they dig themselves out of this mess.

The simplistic nature of their model mixed with such a toxic company culture will make it hard to recover from this.

I hear they are already working on deferring deliveries, so maybe a severe cut to the program might get the show back on the road. The problem is lead times in getting experience, training trainers, and getting training done might push them a bit too far.

I remember in 2005 when they were chartering in a lot of other airlines to recover the program, but the airline was much smaller back then. Around that time easyjet was offering golden hellos of 30,000 gbp for type rated pilots. Unfortunately for Ryanair it looks like Norwegian has soaked up most of the sub charter capacity available.

Maybe the easy option out for them would be to buy Monarch and just have them fly large parts of the program until they can get on their feet again.

One can't help but have a bit of schadenfruede for odreary, this has certainly been building for a long time.

[RoyHudd]

Airline management just hate paying pilots "too much". Twas ever thus, just read Ernest K. Gann's "Fear is the Hunter". He cites the management greed from the 1930's, forcing pilots to ply their trade wherever they could.

The chickens are finally coming home to roost. And hopefully no big crashes will force the issue. Employ enough pilots, having trained them to high standards, and pay them very well. That will result in higher fares, greater safety, and no nonsense like walk-outs, strikes, grounding of new aircraft, or flight cancellations.

And people will pay a few quid more for their tickets. Airlines will pay their pilots salaries of a few thousand more. And all may then be well. I doubt it...

[Greenlights]

People will always pay, even if more expensive.
Travelling by air is not for poor. Sound harsh, but to me, poor take a car not a plane. No need to pay 20 euros for a flight. even 200eu is cheap actually and anybody can afford it by saving some money.

[Tommy Gavin]

Why would you go from RYR to Norwegian? You are still a contractor. Money still isn't great. Benefits arent either. I mean, there must be better options right now?

[littco]

If they don't have a pilot shortage then we won't see new adverts for pilot recruitment. We won't see new incentives to entice people and we won't see excuses like "new airframes" as reasons for needing to recruit...

[RAT 5]

And they won't be trawling Brazil for EU qualified citizens with B737 ratings.

[Sailvi767]

Does anyone know the real story behind the flight cancelations. Did the company really not know the pilots had vacations coming or is Ryanair having retention or recruitment issues?

http://www.bnn.ca/ryanair-shares-tumble-as-airline-cancels-scores-of-flights-amid-pilot-shortage-1.859340

[busybee123]

Why would you go from RYR to Norwegian? You are still a contractor. Money still isn't great. Benefits arent either. I mean, there must be better options right now?

Alot came over to Thomson in the last four years and many have since transferred onto 787 and 75/76 fleets.

[GScapture]

Everything is :mad:. Especially the latest memo.

Norwegian careers (http://careers.norwegian.com/pilot)

[Walnut]

Buying back leave is not going to help if a pilot is on 900hrs the max rolling limit. In fact giving the pilot leave is the best option because each week off allows the pilot to move away from the 900hr max by circa 20hr for the week off.
I suspect MOL has been refusing leave slots through the summer, with all pilots now on 900hrs he has hit the buffers, he needs to recruit more. it will be very difficult to get out of this hole.

[LH777]

"Ryanair cancelling flights due pilot leave" was on our morning national (Downunder!!) news earlier today. Quite brief but Ryanair blaming new leave requirements for pilots and pilots blaming lack of resource (pilot resource I guess from what I read on this thread).

[skyloone]

Simple get out of hole plan on the way no doubt.....cancel more flights!
Have they been pulling guys out the training department to crew flights? If so that might increase the training backlog which slows entry of new guys... line training etc... Besides a new 73 rated pilot starting today now would only be available after ground school, sim, line training, 3 months time?

[Skyjob]

http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/599355-ryanair-cancelling-flights.html

[A320ECAM]

IMO this had more to do with politics (unions) than flight safety - Colgan Air is an example of an accident due to extreme fatigue not inexperience.

Actually, the cause of the crash was a result of icing on the wings. The pilots noticed the icing but failed to do anything about it as they believed it was safe. They also failed to react properly to the aircraft stalling.

Yes the flight crew were understandably fatigued but it was their lack of training (especially the captain's poor simulator performances) which caused that accident through and through.

[Bayerische]

MOL's take on the pilot shortage........listen to the arrogance just 12 months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ytmFxB1ec

[tubby linton]

Irish newspaper believes RYR have lost 700 pilots in the last financial year..https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/over-700-pilots-left-ryanair-in-last-financial-year-ialpa-claims-1.3225145?mode=amp

[Can737]

It is already make no sense to pay for your type rating in order to work, but even more ridiculous if you have airline experience.

[BizJetJockey]

Don't EZY do the same!? Even DECs still have to stump up the cash don't they?
Norwegian ask for the same initially however pay it back over three years so if you do your time it isn't so bad from what I heard.

[cowhorse]

Yes the flight crew were understandably fatigued but it was their lack of training (especially the captain's poor simulator performances) which caused that accident through and through.
Captain had 3000+FT, and would thus not be affected by the 'new' 1500h rule. And fatigue was definitely they main catalyst.

Whenever we talk about FR it's the same debate about guys with 200h in the cockpit and a disaster waiting to happen. P2F is immoral (and in many countries probably illegal), but it simply doesn't have anything to do with safety. I understand why unions are against it (and I support them), but the safety angle is BS.

[silverelise]

Hello folks, apologies for butting in with an SLF type question but I am trying to comprehend the core issue amongst all the debate here. Is it the case that the problem has been triggered because Ryan Air had to change their concept of calendar year to be an actual calendar year rather than their company year, causing pilots to have reached/exceeded their 900hrs / year limit due to having to include hours from Q1?

[TheMightyAtom]

Hello folks, apologies for butting in with an SLF type question but I am trying to comprehend the core issue amongst all the debate here. Is it the case that the problem has been triggered because Ryan Air had to change their concept of calendar year to be an actual calendar year rather than their company year, causing pilots to have reached/exceeded their 900hrs / year limit due to having to include hours from Q1?

That is the party line however many of us speculate it's a bit of a stretch and they're simply short of pilots. So instead of acknowledging that they're insidiously saying "pilots are cancelling your holidays so they can have their own!"... thereby setting up a strawman for the future.

(Disclaimer: post is entirely speculative and is not an attempt at a statement of fact)

[littco]

£400million wiped off yesterday..

£1billion today?!

[larochoux]

And right till this day experienced FOs are being charged €35,000 for a TR that costs the company no more than $12,000. RYR deserves everything it gets.

It is so absurd as well as cadet recruitment process. Recruitment fee - 460 EUR just for possibility of start in recruitment process. Who has heard of such practice in any company in the world?

The recruitment process itself costs 300 hr cadets over 1000 euros (recruitment cost, simulator hire + tickets). In the meantime, Wizzair and other airlines funds the entire recruitment process, provide tickets for recruitment, hotels and give you a pernament contract of employment (with paid annual leave, insurance etc.).

Ryanair treats pilots (I speak from the perspective of the person looking for the first airline job) like piggy banks, wishing from them nearly 40,000 euros for training worth 15-20k euros.

They are loudly advertise to the world the launch of the "revolutionary" APC program, which is worse than the competition proposal which has been offering it for several years and does not require a huge contribution.

I am writing this only from the perspective of the person looking for the first job as the pilot. Maybe our correspondent from the BBC will use this point of view.

[smith]

People will always pay, even if more expensive.
Travelling by air is not for poor. Sound harsh, but to me, poor take a car not a plane. No need to pay 20 euros for a flight. even 200eu is cheap actually and anybody can afford it by saving some money.

As MOL says people are queuing up to get paid £120k a year for 20hours a week.

[smith]

It was Colgan Air Flight 3407.
Now, you must have 1500hrs min to get hired anywhere in the USA.

They are working hard in the US to get this returned back to 200hours.

[Usaf]

£400million wiped off yesterday..

£1billion today?!

Where did You get this info? It seems a loro 400 mln...

[Walnut]

If leave is spread evenly throughout the year then it has no effect, but if you force pilots to not take leave in the summer peak then you build up a potential down line problem. I am sure MOL has not given out any more leave, he has just made 1/4/17 to 31/12/17 a 3 week leave year. The 900hr max hours is a continuous rolling one, I once had to be taken off a trip as I would have infringed this CAA (legal) limit.

[GScapture]

Here's enlightening text from IALPA about Ryanair.

https://ialpa.net/ialpa-analysis-of-ryanair-pilot-numbers-crisis/

The "leave allocations" is just a normal propaganda from Ryanair. They knew this was coming but they were too arrogant to do anything about it.

[littco]

As per the article.

New joiners in 2017 = 634 ( new Fo's) mainly
Leavers 2017 = 718 (experienced)

Net loss = 80pilots over all but 700 experienced pilots gone.

New frames 2016-2017 = 100

10 pilots per frame = 1000 extra pilots needed to fly those frames..

Add in the 700 experienced guys that have left.. you could say they are 1700 experienced pilots short to run the fleet.

Obviously it can be interpreted differently but outgoing experience can not be balanced with inexperienced new pilots.

[doniedarko]

Pilots leaving Ryr is nothing new. What is interesting is over the last 3 years the calibre of people who have left it has been exponential. From lifer TRE's and trainers to young SFI 1500 hour talent. There has been a exodus of experience. Ryanair has dictated T &C's (or lack of) to an entire industry for nearly 2 decades. It seems now that the completely failed to grasp the fact that they are now the employer of last choice in a good employment market. For a company that makes over a billion euro a year they now need to consider the unthinkable ......and make their T & C's competitive. Will it happen.? My guess is they will tough it out until the winter schedule and rely on the public's goldfish memory.:ugh:

[bnt]

Full list of cancellations: https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/2017/09/flightcancellations.pdf

(I'm flying DUB-EMA and back in a few weeks' time, looks like no cancellations at East Midlands at all.)

[ExDubai]

12.000 € Bonus..... https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/0919/905861-ryanair-bonus-for-pilots/
paid in October 2018 :}

[Pilot2/b]

And we all know what's going to happen in Sept 18 "due to predicted losses in winter 18" we will be unable to pay the bonus. They are just waiting for another airline to go under and then the pilots will be back to square one. Short term fixes.

[TBSC]

£400million wiped off yesterday..

£1billion today?!

LSE share price up 3% since the morning...

[Cows getting bigger]

..... and Easy Jet similar numbers.

[cowhorse]

LSE share price up 3% since the morning...

And come the next financial crisis, which is always around the corner, the shares will go up and up. We would need a regulatory solution to the mess we have, but since the Brussels is populated in part by the bureaucrats in part by the free market zealots, realistically, we are doomed to the status quo.

Majority of pilots (or at least many) are already perfectly content with being moved around Europe like cattle, with absolutely no thought given to their family life.

[vrb03kt]

From the outside, it appears to be the solution that was expected - throw a bit of cash at it as a sticking plaster without addressing what appears most likely the root cause - crew retention. Which is why I personally, as an experienced 737 pilot, wouldn't even contemplate working for Ryanair even though they have a base at my local airport.

[LauraH]

Hi GScapture. I am interested in hearing more about your experience at Ryanair.

[directmisbi]

MOL might be in for more trouble :- )

Ryanair offers pilots up to ?12,000 in one-off bonuses to work on days off - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-offers-pilots-up-to-12000-in-oneoff-bonuses-to-work-on-days-off-36147357.html)

[groundbum]

and when the pilots are threatening sickies etc to get their T+Cs improved are they also asking for the same improvements to be made to all the other Ryanair employees such as cabin staff etc?

thought not....

[45 before POL]

MOL might be in for more trouble :- )

Ryanair offers pilots up to ?12,000 in one-off bonuses to work on days off - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-offers-pilots-up-to-12000-in-oneoff-bonuses-to-work-on-days-off-36147357.html)

SO..... a co-pilot for example would get €6000 for working 10 of their days off, must complete min of 800 hours and still be employed on 01 Oct 2018 to get it.
So you can work 10 days extra for nothing if you quit before that.

Its work more and retention tied up as one. Great way to increase pilots hours. Do it next year nd save again:E:

[Can737]

12.000 € Bonus..... https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/0919/905861-ryanair-bonus-for-pilots/
paid in October 2018 :}

Hahaha bunch of crooks!

[Greenlights]

don't accept anything just leave. It's time to show who has the power.

Have you seen the thriller movie "Seven" ? if you have, you'll see when I'm saying :
If you accept what FR offers, they will win. If you leave, you win.

[Can737]

The question is. 12000€, is it enough to keep you around an other year in an airline that has nothing to offer you, while you could build seniority elsewhere which can be critical in time to reach the eventual top scale or the left seat.

[Cows getting bigger]

The bonus looks more like a bond.

[GScapture]

The "bonus" is just a disgrace. They are just bonding people with even worse terms and conditions.

They need to do something now and immediately. Raise the day off payment up to 1000€ for cpt's and 500€ for FO's at least. Then on top of that the bonus without any conditions and new improved contracts. The new "extra" pay they are providing is just a one big joke, nothing more.

Well, nothing will change anyway, they will never change.

Just leave.

[virginblue]

Meanwhile, the German press is phantasizing that it is all an elaborate plot by Ryanair's management to be able to massively dump capacity on the German market as soon as airberlin comes to a grinding halt and shuts down shop....

[gearlever]

Yeah, it's about to get the slots !?:confused:

But FR aren't in the bidding process, are they?

[Skipname]

MOL might be in for more trouble :- )

Ryanair offers pilots up to ?12,000 in one-off bonuses to work on days off - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-offers-pilots-up-to-12000-in-oneoff-bonuses-to-work-on-days-off-36147357.html)

If what the article says about the Ryanair pilots thinking to go on strike it's true, it will be the best news I got all year! I hope they will strike for at least a week!

It makes me very happy to see MOL struggling to fill the aircrafts with pilots. I hope his arrogance will cost him dearly.

[Transpond]

Train people well enough so they can leave, treat them well enough so they don’t want to.

[gearlever]

SPOT ON Transpond:ok:

[Cows getting bigger]

A Richard Branson quote. How apt.

[Sober Lark]

With a comment like that, if you were twice as smart Arfur you'd be stupid.

[Greenlights]

If what the article says about the Ryanair pilots thinking to go on strike it's true, it will be the best news I got all year! I hope they will strike for at least a week!

It makes me very happy to see MOL struggling to fill the aircrafts with pilots. I hope his arrogance will cost him dearly.

as I already said, MOL should resign from his position. Really. That's the only right thing that he should do.

[littco]

£74million from share sales in June probably suggests hes bought his retirement home and off soon anyway...

[Can737]

Yes, he is probably planning to bail soon, he knows he's been squeezing the lemon, and like any con man, he knows the time as come.