Weight Control Authority

[Jabawocky]

I hate to do this.........but.

Does anyone know how to apply for a weight control authority exam?

As of now, not a few months ago?

Seriously, I know a really nice friendly guy at CASA, and even he could not find it. I have several emails and a phone call from a nice young lady from Canberra......no, maybe you need to register. Well I have. And still the choices of exams are the same. Nothing for WCA.

Now I should point out, according to the legislation (yes in CAO100.28 I am exempt of the exam.....but no because too many morons have been using that and are morons, we all suffer and now their "policy" is everyone has to do the exam.) So sure, despite me having 30 years doing bending moment calculations and much other sensible experience, I still have to do an exam. Big deal.........But for FARKS sake will someone book me in for one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FFS, I am not the dumbest person in aviation........but I can't book myself into a dumb ass exam which I am told has a 70% fail rate!!!!!!

Maybe I have too high an opinion of myself, but if I can't book an exam how can I pass one?

Any help please :ugh::ugh::ugh: :hmm::roll eyes: :oh::yuk:

And talking with an AP tonight I wonder why......:* why do we bother???????? :rolleyes::ugh::rolleyes::ugh:

[no_one]

Aren't you building a homebuilt? There is this exemption that applies and provided you do the SAAA W+B course, done as part of the MPC course, you can do it without being a full WCO.

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2015L00530

[john_tullamarine]

I can understand your frustration .. there is some difficulty in tracking down what's what with the WCA. I am told, as of this morning, that CASA will be putting up a briefing document of some sort in the next little while so that may make it easier for folk to find out what's what.

However, if I can offer some comments which might help a bit ...

Caveat .. unless things have changed ..

(a) application via Form 337 (https://www.casa.gov.au/files/form377pdf). The WCA exams are administered a bit differently to the general AME raft of exams. As the numbers of candidates is small, the system doesn't routinely offer an exam. Once an application is received (say, with at least a month's leadtime to the next exam sitting) the relevant CASA SME in BNE will run up the exam paper(s) specifically for the next exam sitting. Hence, there is naught on weight control exams on the websites.

(b) have a read of CAO 100.28 (https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2013C00881) for the ins and outs

(c) there are two exams .. (specific commentary valid as of about a year or so, ago, although I am told that the exam story hasn't altered to any extent since then).

The original provision for a qualified engineer not to do the exams was a bit silly as the engineering ticket generally doesn't cover anything of note that the weights engineer needs to know .. Indeed, since the exams have been applied generally, quite a few PEs have fallen by the wayside when attempting the exams.

- the first exam is, essentially, a reg rule-based memory test and should be straightforward to pass. Probably a simple calculation or two included but nothing overly difficult

- the second exam is the problem child and is one very "practical" (and, definitely, not easy) theory exam.

Unless you have a very strong background in practical "how-to-do-it" weight control, you can expect a high chance of failure in the second exam. I would rate the pass difficulty as being somewhat above, say, ATPL subjects ...and for the same sort of reasons .. high pass mark (and some of the questions here are pass/fail in their own right so you can pass overall but still get a failing grade) and tight time limit (for the second exam .. the first is pretty relaxed)

Anecdotally, I understand that some folks have been taking up to 6-7 attempts before they get enough exposure to get up to speed by dint of perseverance.

Now there is nothing intrinsically difficult in the second exam but you do need to know your way around weighing protocols and, especially, basic loading system work. Unless you are right up to speed with loading system stuff, you are likely to be in a world of hurt with the exam.

Best way to get to this level of competence for the second exam is to do one of the following ..

(a) do a specific course (not the typical 2-day CAO related course which, in my view, is of dubious value, anyway) on weight control extending probably to 7-10 days' class room work. There are several courses available, although none is tied to the CASA system in any way, and they don't come cheap. Do a suitable one, though, and you should breeze through the exam first time up. Probably from next year I will be offering a range of directed weight control courses (which will provide some flexibility to chaps such as yourself) but that is yet to be organised.

(b) tag along with an active (and very competent .. not all are) WCO who is prepared to act as your mentor for a few month's active Industry work.

Re my exam comments, as a sidenote, my WCA was the first one issued back in 1976 (for which I didn't do any exams or specific training other than rely on my then current competence in aircraft weights engineering). I am amongst the more experienced of the Oz WCOs, particularly when it comes to complex loading systems such as trimsheets.

Unfortunately, I let my WCA lapse while I was tied up with a military contract over the past decade or so. When I came back to renewing it, I discovered that the rule detail had changed and I had to do the exams this time around .. so my comments re the exams are from direct experience, not just daydreaming. For interest, I passed both exams first time without any undue difficulty so it can be done .. if you know what you are on about.

As I suggested above, the exams are technically straightforward .. a bit like the ATPLs ... PROVIDING that you know your stuff inside out.

Quite happy to talk to you on the subject .. if you so desire, you might drop me a PM with a phone contact.

[Jabawocky]

Aren't you building a homebuilt? There is this exemption that applies and provided you do the SAAA W+B course, done as part of the MPC course, you can do it without being a full WCO.

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2015L00530


NO......that finished about 2009, but I am involved in many other things, and as a service to industry it was suggested I do this. ;)

[Jabawocky]

JT,


Sorry to trouble you but yes, everything you say I am aware of. But in addition it has gotten worse. CAO100.28 says I am exempt. CASA say nobody gets the exemption....any more.

The science is (for me) dead boring easy, but as you say they have a high failure rate. I may become a victim too. in which case I will write off the $700 5 days course and exam fees as a bad joke and the greater good of industry can bash it up its collective ass sideways for all I care. I am really only doing this to help others, although not free of course!

So the real issue is.......you have to register, log in and sign up for an exam. Trouble is the exams are not in the list available. I gave AME Licensing a friendly and firm email last night and no reply today. I will call tomorrow and make it clear they need to fix it or reimburse me for my wasted money....see how that goes! :}

I am just over this ****.....and here I was hoping things could not be this silly.....for a WCA of all things.

It is no wonder the industry is screwed. :roll eyes:



PS: All I want to do is book in for an exam or two that I should pass ok, but should not even have to do. But clearly I can't even book in!

[john_tullamarine]

J,

Now, I don't know who you are so I have no idea as to what your specific background might be. You may, for all I know, be a very experienced weights man .. if so, I'm certainly not trying to teach Grandma to suck eggs in my comments which follow ....

CAO100.28 says I am exempt. CASA say nobody gets the exemption....any more.

Only in respect of having to do the typical 2-day introductory course.

Unless you get an exemption from an appropriate Delegate (and I think I am on solid ground suggesting that such won't happen) you are stuck with the exams.

Are you suggesting that PEs are required to sit one of these courses ? Mind you, I know some who have .. and have still failed due, in the main, to treating it all in a cavalier fashion and expecting a pass as of right.

The science is (for me) dead boring easy, but as you say they have a high failure rate.

The science is pretty trivial .. but that's not the problem. It's the devil in the details of the loading systems which trip up most folks. Now I can't remember the mark I got for the second exam but it was in the mid to high 90s as I recall. Nothing overly difficult there .. but one needed to have one's stuff in a pile very nicely.

I will write off the $700 5 days course and exam fees as a bad joke

You have me totally confused here .. who is offering a 5 day course of any value for that sort of dollars ? The only 5-day course I can bring to mind at the moment is that offered by IATA and I couldn't see that going for $700 .. but, I don't know what the cost is so I could be surprised, I guess. I haven't reviewed the IATA program but I don't think it would be geared sufficiently to the light aircraft end of the market to help all that much in the CASA exam ..

you have to register, log in and sign up for an exam.

Not too sure what the go is here. As far as I am aware, one needs to submit the application with its bits and pieces. What registration, logging in etc., is requred (for my edification) ?

Trouble is the exams are not in the list available. I gave AME Licensing a friendly and firm email last night and no reply today.

You're asking the wrong folk. Try going through the switch and ask for the AWI management person who is responsible for weight control. He's not hard to contact .. I spoke with him this morning. If you choose to give him a call, I suggest you approach him in a pleasant and civil manner .. he's a nice bloke on the phone and you are not going to get far being abrupt.

The reason the exams are not in the list I gave in my previous post. They are an infrequent, on-demand animal.

All I want to do is book in for an exam or two that I should pass ok, but should not even have to do. But clearly I can't even book in!

You're not listening .. make the application and you will get the exams - 2-off.

As to whether you should have to do them .. well, that's not for me to say. Unfortunately, you are stuck with them .. just as I was a year or two ago when I came to renew my WCA. Suggest you just grin and bear it ..

Additionally, I wouldn't underrate the exams ... that's why many/most have difficulties knocking them over. That is especially the case for the second exam unless you are a very competent weights engineer.

[rutan around]

Jabba,
It sounds to me that within CASA the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. A bit like the government handling of the electricity grid. Perhaps the government has handed over grid management to CASA. That would explain 2 things .First why they're too busy to deal with your problem and second why the electricity grid is in the state we now find it.http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/boohoo.gif

[Lead Balloon]

Part of the exam is finding the exam, Jabba!

Remember: It's all about safety.

[Jabawocky]

yeah....you two are onto it :-)


JT,

Yeah I know what it says.

5 days by Bill Whitney, one of the first if not first WCA holder :-)

He took the class for free.....the money was donated to a local org for use of their hall. Very nice of him. And yeah we did real weighing of twins and singles, practised real world stuff.

Anyway.......CASA have outsourced the exams.....but you can be sure it is not available on the web page.

So JT things have changed since you did one and I believe recently. Now you need to gather up passes in the exams (create a profile account and register, then sit & pass) plus gather all the other evidence of doing a course, then do your application. Form 337 I think it is.

[Jabawocky]

At last......only taken ALL WEEK. I very helpful lady emailed today.

Talk about well hidden. It is as though they don't want anyone applying. But unlike all the others this one is done manually, and you can't see a schedule. :roll eyes:

But for anyone out there stupid enough to try this themselves, here ya go! The new improved exam process. :}
UNOFFICIAL
Good morning David,

Thank you for your email.

I understand you have had some correspondence with Arnold Long since sending this email, and he has provided the information regarding regulation you are referring to. Do you have any further queries regarding the regulation and you requirement to sit the exam?

I hope you have had some luck in booking the exam, however, I will provide directions below in case you have not had any luck yet.

1. Please click on the following link https://www.casa.gov.au/standard-page/aircraft-maintenance-engineer-ame-exams
2. Under the title “Exams Schedule” click the hyperlink to visit “Aspeq Exams” (please note this is an external agency that provides CASA exams, they also have a contact number and email address on their home page if you have any problems)
3. Once on the home page follow the directions to book a WCA exam – first click on “Candidate Information” at the top of the screen, then press “forms”.
4. Under the heading “Examination Application Form”, in the first sentence if you hold your mouse over “Examination Application Form” you will note that it is a hyperlink, click on the application hyperlink to download the application form
5. Complete the form and return it to the Aspeq exams office via email ([email protected]) or fax (02 6262 8830). Please allow sufficient time for the form to be received and processed (a minimum of 21 days is required to process your request. Refer to the exam schedule for your preferred venue and date).

If you have any problems with the form or booking the exam you can contact Aspeq via phone on (02) 6234 8200 or via email [email protected]

If you have any further queries, please don’t hesitate to contact us.


Shortcut is http://media.aspeqexams.com//ASLAU/AME/AUS%20407A%20CASA%20AME%20WC%20Exam%20Booking%20Application. pdf

[rutan around]

I think I'll just stick to the tried and trusted method of doing W&B. Push the tail to the ground and if it doesn't come up again you're aft C of G .If it was already on the ground you're definitely aft C of G. For forward C of G if you're still on the ground at normal cruise speed you probably have a forward C of G problem.http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gif ( Remember children this is just a rumour network)

[The name is Porter]

Jaba, seriously, why are you bothering with this horse****? Turning aviation back into your hobby is liberating ;) let someone else deal with the horse****.

[Capn Bloggs]

Rutan=good.

[Connedrod]

Unless you have scales or access to scales you can pass all the exams etc you will not be given authority ie a lic to carry out weight control. I personally know this.

[Cloudee]

Unless you have scales or access to scales you can pass all the exams etc you will not be given authority ie a lic to carry out weight control. I personally know this.

If you don't have scales or access to scales why would you need or want to have the authority?

[john_tullamarine]

5 days by Bill Whitney, one of the first if not first WCA holder :-)

Wasn't aware Bill was doing any WC training. (I have no idea when his WCA was issued but he would be hard pressed to have jumped the gun on mine ..)

However, being one of us old pharte ANR40/CAR35 chaps .. and now the new stuff from which many of us have walked away .. I would expect his course to be fine and beaut.

The weighings are more for the getting of the ticket rather than the passing of the exams. So long as he covered the loading system side of things in tedious detail and worked you blokes into the ground a la the usual classroom ATPL course way of doing things, I'd still suggest you continue working on the loading system ins and outs for your exam. However, I'm sure we all await some good news from you in due course.

Anyway.......CASA have outsourced the exams

The exams are invigilated and administered by the contractor and, like the other exams have been for quite some time .. but, unless things have changed without any of us knowing, the CASA Ops Engineering SME in BNE sets and marks the exams .. and. in my opinion, does a good job with the exam standard in the second exam .. which is the more searching of the two.

Unless you have scales or access to scales you can pass all the exams etc you will not be given authority ie a lic to carry out weight control

I think not. Scales are available for hire from here and there and the CAO doesn't provide for a disqualification on scale ownership grounds. Perhaps you can cite some objective evidence for your assertion ?

If you don't have scales or access to scales why would you need or want to have the authority?

If you have a look at one of the current CASA projects (https://www.casa.gov.au/rules-and-regulations/standard-page/project-os-1601-review-role-weight-control-officer-and-weight), the WCA side of things may well change a little down the track. Either way, scales are available so there is not a problem in this area.

[Jabawocky]

JT......Bill did make many a joking reference about how old he is getting, and yes it was a great class. Good folk attending.

I do seriously think however Mr Porter above makes a good point. Especially after chatting last night with a GA and QF LAME about the BS and costs of compliance....... :-0

[john_tullamarine]

Jabber, probably not for me to comment .. but the QA elephant side of things has long been a separate Industry unto itself both in Aviation and generally. Some good outcomes, much process for process's sake, I fear.

One of the reasons many of us older APs gave the design approval side of things away with the move to the present regs

Now, let's get you through these exams, shall we ... ?

Re Bill's class, I would be interested in the numbers and which groups were there, if you might advise me via PM.

[TeamTerminal]

Bill likes to have about 8 on a course. I did Bill's course again after failing the second exam. CASA advised where I had gone wrong and there was very little time left on the clock when I passed.

JT - Bill signs with AQ2 so you might still be ahead.

You don't need scales to get the authority but as I had trouble hiring scales locally I bought a set. But I did have the WCA about 6 months before the scales arrived.

[john_tullamarine]

Bill likes to have about 8 on a course.

That's a good number for mentoring purposes with plenty of individual attention. I probably will ramp up several weight control courses next year but with an emphasis going well beyond the CASA requirements

there was very little time left on the clock when I passed.

The first exam you should run through in about 30-40 minutes and then have the rest of the time to go over it umpteen times. Relatively straightforward.

The second exam, if you are well prepared, you should finish with, maybe, 45 minutes to an hour left to redo it for checking. Folks should expect a good, solid, searching exam. If you don't know your stuff every which way, a failing grade is a reasonable expectation.

JT - Bill signs with AQ2 so you might still be ahead.

AV1, issued at the start of business on the first day of the new order by young Kenny L at Tullamarine. Not that it matters but I think I'm in by a nose.