Belgian Mil. A109 pilot falls out the cockpit

[DIBO]

During a parachutist demo flight this afternoon at 4th Engineer battalion near Liège, after the paratroopers exited, one of the pilots of a Belgian Army's A109, falls out of the helicopter, dropping several thousands of feet into the surrounding area. Body not yet located. Helicopter landed safely by the remaining pilot.

[BOBAKAT]

oups.... No seat belt, no doors ? Suicide ??

[DIBO]

No seat belt, no doors ?Updated the first post, fell out of heli, but most probably not out of the cockpit

[B2N2]

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/News/1.3059741#

News story

[BOBAKAT]

Very sad.. story,

[beamender99]

Belgian military pilot falls from helicopter during airshow - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41147046)

"They say the co-pilot helped the three jump, but then saw the pilot's seat empty and his door wide open. He grabbed the controls and landed safely."

[atakacs]

Very sad.. story,

And strange (the linked article doesn't give much details).

I'm sure there muss be some SOP to make this sort of operations safe?

[Bell_ringer]

How would one fall out without interfering with controls on the way?
Not to mention why they wouldn't be strapped in.
Almost seems like there would need to be some intent to get that right.

[BOBAKAT]

" but then saw the pilot's seat empty and his door wide open. He grabbed the controls and landed safely.. "
Clearly....It's not really clear. ...

[212man]

(the linked article doesn't give much details).

And shows a photo of an H175!

[Alan Biles]

It's a picture of a helicopter. That's close enough for the BBC.

[DIBO]

Body of 34yo pilot, father of 2, has been recovered.

Both the BBC's report and the Belgian newspaper report mentioned by BBC, have been updated.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=199349

[Spunk]

How can somebody fall out of his seat in an A109? I'm 1,80 m and can bearly make it into the cockpit without hitting my skull or any other parts of my body.
How can somebody jump out of the cockpit without interfering with the dual controls obvoiusly being installed?
Hard to believe.

[chopjock]

Spunk
How can somebody fall out of his seat in an A109? I'm 1,80 m and can bearly make it into the cockpit without hitting my skull or any other parts of my body.

I expect you will be weighing in at one G when getting in and out normally on the ground. Could be different in the air!

[minigundiplomat]

From what I have gathered in the Australian press, the pilot was in the cabin despatching parachutists... why, I do not know; must be a European thing.

[aa777888]

Posting from the perspective of both helicopter pilot and USPA D-license skydiver:

Obviously, given that most on this forum have operated helicopters without doors many times, we all know it's pretty hard to simply fall out of an aircraft, particularly when properly secured in a seat by a belt or harness, even with the doors off. You pretty much have to want to get out.

That said, it is common practice in the US for pilots of non-cabin class aircraft used for skydiving to wear a pilot emergency parachute. This is not so much because they are afraid of falling out, nor are there regulatory requirements, but because there is a risk of catastrophic damage due to a skydiver exit gone wrong.

If I were to be dropping jumpers, I'd certainly wear a pilot emergency rig. And there's no question I'd be wearing a full skydiving rig if I was working un-tethered in any capacity in an aircraft dropping jumpers. Again, while it's hard to wind up in an impromptu skydive, sh*t does happen!

[Carbon Bootprint]

Wow, how tragic. I used to be a sport jumper, though it's been a looong time ago, and I never did a helo jump. However, to echo what aa777888 wrote, in every para aircraft I've jumped from the pilot was also wearing a chute (it's an FAA reg in the US). The ones I saw the guys wearing were all surplus military stuff, so I guess there's no guarantee that they'd work, but parachutes seem to be more reliable than a lot of things I can think of.

ETA: OK, in rereading the thread it appears the deceased may or may not have been the pilot but a jumpmaster of some sort. I still can't fathom anyone in that role without a chute and/or tethered in, or both.

Geez, this just seems strange.

[Non-PC Plod]

The whole thing does not make sense. In a 109, you cant simply climb from the cockpit into the cabin, so the copilot must have been at the controls all the time. He was maybe just looking into the cabin to monitor the jumpers.
The report is innaccurate - the sliding door is for the cabin, the pilots door is hinged. There is simply no reason why the pilot would be unstrapped or deliberately have his door open. I cant think of any way this could not be a deliberate act.
Unless - what actually happened maybe is that the report is completely misleading, and one of the pilots was in the back acting as the jumpmaster throughout, the other was at the controls throughout, and it is the one in the back who fell.

[S76Heavy]

Why would a pilot ever want to act as jumpmaster? That is what qualified jumpmasters are for. And they would be hooked up with a harness to the helicopter. Unfortunately, impossible to tell whether it is shoddy reporting, misinformation or both. Might be a while before the true story emerges.

[212man]

From the Mil forum:

Belgian army pilot in fatal leap from helicopter cockpit (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/belgian-army-pilot-in-fatal-leap-from-helicopter-cockpit-zl5lm5f0l)


A military pilot who fell to his death from his helicopter had recently separated from his wife and two young children, Belgian media have reported. Vincent Valkenberg, 34, is suspected of having waited until his co-pilot was out of the way before jumping from the cockpit door during a flight on Sunday.

The co-pilot was supervising three army parachutists jumping from the aircraft as part of a display. The helicopter lurched suddenly and he saw that Captain Valkenberg’s seat was empty and the cockpit door was wide open. He grabbed the controls and landed safely “without problems”, according to Lieutenant-Colonel Jean-Paul Hames, his commander.

The pilot fell hundreds of metres from the Agusta A109, which was flying over a heavily wooded area near Belgium’s Tihange nuclear reactor. His body was recovered yesterday in a wooded area of the Meuse river valley after overnight searches by police helicopters with thermal-imaging cameras.

Suicide is the main theory in the investigation, with all indications being that the pilot voluntarily jumped after taking advantage of the brief moment when his colleague was watching the paratroopers. Helicopter pilots are not equipped with parachutes. The broadcaster RTL reported details of his marital difficulties.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

all indications being that the pilot voluntarily jumped after taking advantage of the brief moment when his colleague was watching the paratroopers


Very sad if this is indeed the case, but there are still several big questions . If the other pilot was in the cockpit monitoring the parachutists, how could he/she not notice the deceased pilot unstrapping and opening the door? If in the cabin, it is surprising that the deceased pilot managed to unstrap and climb out of a snug cockpit without disturbing the flying controls. And if it was a jumpmaster in the back rather than a co-pilot, then he/she did rather well to land the aircraft safely afterwards.

[John Eacott]

As already pointed out, it is virtually impossible to move from the cabin to the cockpit (or vice versa) of an Agusta A109. It is a very small cockpit and ideas such as parachute for the pilots, etc, are similarly untenable as there simply isn't enough room.

[212man]

If the other pilot was in the cockpit monitoring the parachutists, how could he/she not notice the deceased pilot unstrapping and opening the door?

Well, unstrapping doesn't need to be that obvious and I assume the co-pilot was twisted around in his seat looking into the cabin, not paying attention to his colleague. Once unstrapped it would only take seconds to open the door and jump. Seems pretty straight forward to me if it was deliberate. Remember, a Norwegian passenger, being medevaced, managed to jump out of an EC225 window a couple of years ago and that was with two colleagues monitoring him!

[helonorth]

Very sad if this is indeed the case, but there are still several big questions . If the other pilot was in the cockpit monitoring the parachutists, how could he/she not notice the deceased pilot unstrapping and opening the door? If in the cabin, it is surprising that the deceased pilot managed to unstrap and climb out of a snug cockpit without disturbing the flying controls. And if it was a jumpmaster in the back rather than a co-pilot, then he/she did rather well to land the aircraft safely afterwards.

What would you be able to do about it?

[OvertHawk]

I think it's probably a good thing for all concerned that the other pilot did not notice the event. It's unlikely that they would have been able to prevent it happening if the individual was determined and any struggle could have jeopardised the aircraft further. Plus. At least the surviving pilot is spared the memory of watching the event happening although seeing the empty seat will have been bad enough.

[aa777888]

Wow, how tragic. I used to be a sport jumper, though it's been a looong time ago, and I never did a helo jump. However, to echo what aa777888 wrote, in every para aircraft I've jumped from the pilot was also wearing a chute (it's an FAA reg in the US). The ones I saw the guys wearing were all surplus military stuff, so I guess there's no guarantee that they'd work, but parachutes seem to be more reliable than a lot of things I can think of.
Not that it's directly relevant, but it's not a FAR. What drives the use of pilot emergency rigs are either a) they are required by the skydiving door modification STC, or b) common sense. Also, they are usually purpose built rigs identical to those worn by aerobatic pilots and passengers (which is required by the FARs), not mil. surplus.

Here's a good reference for budding aerial delivery drivers: DiverDriver.com (http://diverdriver.com/)

[Carbon Bootprint]

Also, they are usually purpose built rigs identical to those worn by aerobatic pilots and passengers (which is required by the FARs), not mil. surplus.
Like I said, it was a long time ago. The fancy square rigs were pretty new and out of my price range at the time, so most of us were jumping modified military surplus stuff.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

What would you be able to do about it?
Nothing at all other than focus on flying the aircraft safely. The remaining pilot managed it anyway, and kudos for achieving that despite a horrific shock, but the less time the only pilot spends looking backwards, the better. As others have said though, it is probably slightly less unpleasant for the survivor not to have seen his colleague go.

[HHornet]

This is all very odd. The pilot would have known that the parachutists would have exited quite quickly, but that would have still left the jumpmaster and/or co-pilot in the helicopter, who would potentially not survive with the alleged departure of the pilot.

[roscoe1]

This incident happened back in 1987, didn't involve any passengers and ended happily. Again kudos to the copilot for not freaking out. As An ex sport jumper I agree with all that has been said.
www.nytimes.com/1987/09/04/us/pilot-is-survivor-in-freakish-mishap.html