An-2 crashed at airshow "70 years of An-2" at Chernoe (MARZ)

[Kulverstukas]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BYiKcwJlPPh/
https://ren.tv/player/224541#autoplay
https://lentaru.media.eagleplatform.com/index/player?record_id=820103&player=new

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/742275/6154164.2a7/0_be4a7_d7cf8c43_L.jpg (https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/alex3saaba/album/150381/view/779431) https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/467152/6154164.2a7/0_be4aa_6181857a_L.jpg (https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/alex3saaba/album/150381/view/779434)

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/206909/6154164.2a7/0_be4ab_434bcc61_L.jpg (https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/alex3saaba/album/150381/view/779435) https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/484029/6154164.2a7/0_be4ac_27315234_L.jpg (https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/alex3saaba/album/150381/view/779436)

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/206909/6154164.2a7/0_be4ad_c9f86630_L.jpg (https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/alex3saaba/album/150381/view/779437) https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/217607/6154164.2a7/0_be4ae_ed69aa8e_L.jpg (https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/alex3saaba/album/150381/view/779438)

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/202385/6154164.2a7/0_be4af_94f6874e_L.jpg (https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/alex3saaba/album/150381/view/779439) https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/206909/6154164.2a6/0_be49c_29346dbf_L.jpg (https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/alex3saaba/album/150381/view/779420)

[Kulverstukas]

https://cdn.iz.ru/sites/default/files/styles/900x506/public/news-2017-09/275306_1000x651_615_426defd7d9125a3216fe26bc3a481eec_1.jpg?i tok=sT0ALn-F
(c) Moskva24/Lidia Shironina

[Kulverstukas]

https://cdn.aviaforum.ru/images/2017/09/875968_4684ac9bd049bd93f1232bd8641c2262.JPG

[Kulverstukas]

https://iz.ru/video/embed/640581#autoplay

[parkfell]

Stalled in the turn? Increasing G against speed

The video is quite revealing.....

[Basil]

Got fixated on following the planned line or avoiding going past the crowd line?
Dreadful.

[Kulverstukas]

CC-fuRydob8

[Piltdown Man]

Was it stalled or was it misjudgement? The entry and line followed suggested that high speed, a low level turning pass was planned. A family event was turned into a horrible one when the aircraft descended at least 10' lower than it was "safe". Only in Russia.

[Concours77]

When in doubt, roll out. Tightening the turn feels right, but is so wrong.

Hotel Tango. I agree. "Only in Russia". What nonsense.

In the last of the videos, the pilot looks to have rolled right a couple times, to shallow his dive, and from the response, I think he thought he had it made. Hindsight 20/20. Just to say an air show emphasizes drama, and some risk above the normal is expected.

Piltdown. In review, it appears closer than at first. It won't help the family, but the mistake was one that's been made before, with better results. I know nothing about the aircraft except to say it is one huge and heavy single.

A similar? The Colonel who tried knife edge flight at Fairbanks, with similar results. In a B-52.

[Hotel Tango]

Only in Russia.

I totally disagree with that generalisation!

You have to admit that quite a few spectators go along just in the hope of witnessing something like this.

Sorry, but on the basis that aeroplane accidents at air shows are unlikely to be survivable, I vehemently disagree with that. There might be one or two sickos, as there always are in society, but to suggest that "quite a few" go in the hope of seeing someone killed is sick in itself!

[Vessbot]

When in doubt, roll out. Tightening the turn feels right, but is so wrong.

100% correct. This is why it's important to learn (and teach) to think in terms of lift vector control. The ailerons aim it, the elevator makes you go where it's aimed, but only under a long list of provisos. Best to aim it away from the ground first, and ask questions later.

The naive, easy, and deadly way to teach flying is as an extension of driving a car, with the addition of the "elevator" that moves you up and down. Not so. One of Wolfgang Langewiesche's high points in his book Stick and Rudder is his doing away with the word "elevator" for the control surface in questions.

[DaMoopies]

Interested persons should look up An-2 and North Korea. Not allowed to post relevant links, but wowie, they have a bunch of them and apparently well thought out plans to use them.

[galaxy flyer]

When in doubt, roll out. Tightening the turn feels right, but is so wrong.

Hotel Tango. I agree. "Only in Russia". What nonsense.

In the last of the videos, the pilot looks to have rolled right a couple times, to shallow his dive, and from the response, I think he thought he had it made. Hindsight 20/20. Just to say an air show emphasizes drama, and some risk above the normal is expected.

Piltdown. In review, it appears closer than at first. It won't help the family, but the mistake was one that's been made before, with better results. I know nothing about the aircraft except to say it is one huge and heavy single.

A similar? The Colonel who tried knife edge flight at Fairbanks, with similar results. In a B-52.

That was Lt Col Bud Holland at Spokane, WA Fairchild AFB. He was reentering the pattern, I believe. Wing/CV took a fall via General Court "dereliction of duty".

I find it hard to believe tha AN-2 was designed for acro--drag of brick and wings that don't inspire roll rate.

[rotornut]

Only in Russia Or Canada:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o6PitZEmMI

[tdracer]

That was Lt Col Bud Holland at Spokane, WA Fairchild AFB. He was reentering the pattern, I believe. Wing/CV took a fall via General Court "dereliction of duty".

If I recall correctly, he was practicing for an airshow, not entering the pattern.

[ATC Watcher]

The An-2 has never been designed to do aerobatics, even low key as done here, doing so at low level is definitively not recommended as reactions on the controls are slow and with inertia. ( I have flown it)

I am also doing presentations at airshows with an aircraft not designed for it. Better keep to low passes and tight turns , and not try to imitate stuff you see the Extra do, like here..
That said,another very sad day for the airshow community , and RIP to the pilot..:(

[treadigraph]

A similar? The Colonel who tried knife edge flight at Fairbanks, with similar results. In a B-52.

There was also a display (practice?) C-17 accident out of a tight turn after take off at Anchorage a few years ago.

[Metro man]

The North Koreans have 300 of these to deliver troops behind South Korean lines. Fabric covered, flying low and slow they are very difficult to detect. Even if airfields get knocked out they can still take off from roads or improvised strips.

[AndiKunzi]

Rudder and aileron do not seem to be in a position to recover, even right before impact.

[Super VC-10]

That was Lt Col Bud Holland at Spokane, WA Fairchild AFB. He was reentering the pattern, I believe. Wing/CV took a fall via General Court "dereliction of duty".

I find it hard to believe tha AN-2 was designed for acro--drag of brick and wings that don't inspire roll rate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Fairchild_Air_Force_Base_B-52_crash

[Above The Clouds]

From my understanding the AN-2 is not cleared for aerobatics !!!

From the video that was either a barrel roll that went wrong and ended up as a split 'S' or an attempt at a split 'S' that still went badly wrong.

Standing by to be corrected.

[Kulverstukas]

From the video that was either a barrel roll that went wrong and ended up as a split 'S' or an attempt at a split 'S' that still went badly wrong.



Like the one who photographed this plane and the program that he performs many times , I can say that he probably planned knife edge with sharp right turn and landing.

they can still take off from roads or improvised strips.

With proper wind it can take off from it's standing position with no need for strip at all like this (https://russianplanes.net/id195934).

The funds are being raised to support the families of Dmitry Sukharev and Boris Tylevich - two pilots who tragically died in the accident during the airshow in Moscow on September 2, 2017.

https://igor113.livejournal.com/889480.html

[filejw]

100% correct. This is why it's important to learn (and teach) to think in terms of lift vector control. The ailerons aim it, the elevator makes you go where it's aimed, but only under a long list of provisos. Best to aim it away from the ground first, and ask questions later.

The naive, easy, and deadly way to teach flying is as an extension of driving a car, with the addition of the "elevator" that moves you up and down. Not so. One of Wolfgang Langewiesche's high points in his book Stick and Rudder is his doing away with the word "elevator" for the control surface in questions.

So true ! It's sad that in aviation people seem to repeat mistakes that can be avoided. Very unfortunate that this same accident is available on U Tube abet with different aircraft some videos being decades old 😡.

[Kulverstukas]

Bfp5_gcgLtI

[ShotOne]

"Only in Russia..?" If only! Twenty seconds on YouTube would demonstrate how wrong that is.

[Flying Binghi]

From my understanding the AN-2 is not cleared for aerobatics !!!

From the video that was either a barrel roll that went wrong and ended up as a split 'S' or an attempt at a split 'S' that still went badly wrong.

Standing by to be corrected.

Been 20 odd years since i looked at a flight manual for one though don't recall any mention of aerobatics. Likely not relavent to this though. The routine looked to be all basic positive G stuff. Sorta stuff a Boeing 707 passenger jet could do.

Sundry thoughts:
The pilot gets a G loading coming out of the loop, a slight unloading, then back to a G loading in the turn...

Obvious aileron deflection in previous manoeuvres though no obvious aileron deflection in the turn and ground impact ?

Or a spanner in the works perhaps...






.

[Piltdown Man]

Sorry guys, the comment "Only in Russia" relates to a series of clips on YouTube featuring the most amazing crashes, cock-ups, acts of stupidity and things requiring huge balls. Unlike this incident, many are also very amusing as well.

I'm amazed this comment has pulled so many people's chains though.

[Kulverstukas]

And this is how it should look like:

Ud1RFzJ34sw

[Pilot DAR]

In Canada, a part of the requirements for an airshow reads:

Air show aerobatic manoeuvres conducted inside the aerobatic box that have a descending recovery with a pull or push and having a flight path which, when extended, would contact the primary spectator area will not be approved for inclusion in an air show.

[PrivtPilotRadarTech]

And this is how it should look like:

Thanks, that is very helpful in understanding what happened.

[l.garey]

From my understanding the AN-2 is not cleared for aerobatics !!!

From the video that was either a barrel roll that went wrong and ended up as a split 'S' or an attempt at a split 'S' that still went badly wrong.

Standing by to be corrected.

According to the An-2 Flight Manual

http://www.avialogs.com/en/aircraft/ussr/antonov/an-2/4498flightmanualforan-2airplanewithash-62irengine.html

"Acrobatic flights" are forbidden (page 79) and bank limitation in turn is 45 degrees (page 81).

Laurence

[B2N2]

According to the An-2 Flight Manual

4498 Flight Manual for An-2 Airplane with Ash-62IR Engine (http://www.avialogs.com/en/aircraft/ussr/antonov/an-2/4498flightmanualforan-2airplanewithash-62irengine.html)

"Acrobatic flights" are forbidden (page 79) and bank limitation in turn is 45 degrees (page 81).

Laurence

That appears to be a Polish approved manual and may pertain to Polish built models.

[Concours77]

Hmmm...

Now we see this aircraft in an aggressive side slip, a "duck walk", and a demonstration of "flying on the prop".

This in an aircraft limited to 45 degrees of bank.

I think from the crash video that the reason this flight ended badly is because it remained in the "maneuver" too long....

The example of a successful maneuver completion also showed the aircraft exceeding limits.

Pushing certified limits is not acceptable. It sets a poor example, and should be discouraged. It is so sad the pilots died. It also was not necessary...

"Only in.....anywhere".

[l.garey]

B2N2: I think most AN-2s were Polish built, so maybe this one was too. In any case I can't see that it would make much difference. If a Polish An-2 is limited to non-aerobatic 45 degree banks, than I imagine Russian ones would be too.

Laurence

[Flying Binghi]

B2N2: I think most AN-2s were Polish built, so maybe this one was too. In any case I can't see that it would make much difference. If a Polish An-2 is limited to non-aerobatic 45 degree banks, than I imagine Russian ones would be too.

Laurence

Yer likely right though the Polish flight manual may have got some 'added bits' to the original just to keep the export market happy.

At any rate, here in Oz at YBAF i watched Bob Hoover do some twin/single/no-engine aerobatic manoeuvres in a twin engine aircraft, and apparently with a medical written out by CASA just for the air show..:ooh: Seems air shows can legitimately have their own rules set out side of a flight manual.





.

[megan]

apparently with a medical written out by CASA just for the air showFB, two FAA people had it in for Bob Hoover, and grounded him on supposed medical grounds, this from observing one of his performances at an airshow, which they deemed to be sub par. When he came to Oz, Barry Diamond, ex Navy A-4 and then CASA, put Bob through the hoops and was unable to fault. Bob was given the OK then to perform. The FAA pair were subsequently hung, drawn and quartered, and Bob regained his FAA accreditation.

[Steve6443]

Looking at the manoeuvres flown, I'm wondering whether if his altimeter was set 1 or 2hpa higher? The completed demonstration showed pretty low altitude when coming out of the descending turn, maybe 50 feet or so AGL.

If the pilot didn't set the barometer, then that difference would lead to the plane smacking into the ground....

[Kulverstukas]

Bfp5_gcgLtI

[Flying Binghi]

Might just be me seeing what i want to see or the changing camera angle, though it appears just before ground impact a little right rudder went in ?

FB, two FAA people had it in for Bob Hoover, and grounded him on supposed medical grounds, this from observing one of his performances at an airshow, which they deemed to be sub par. When he came to Oz, Barry Diamond, ex Navy A-4 and then CASA, put Bob through the hoops and was unable to fault. Bob was given the OK then to perform. The FAA pair were subsequently hung, drawn and quartered, and Bob regained his FAA accreditation.

Shame Hoover had to come to Oz to get his U.S. licence back. He certainly put on a good display for the YBAF watchers..:)

[Concours77]

FB:

"Might just be me seeing what i want to see or the changing camera angle, though it appears just before ground impact a little right rudder went in ?"

I see that. Also visible is an emphatic yaw response, right. That even though the left wings are dragging. There is no (applied) Rudder visible at 20 feet AGL.

NO Flaps. The airplane is not going to impress the audience with speed. Or slippery airframe. The max angle take off pays off at two body lengths?

This aircraft in an air show, (given its size), could impress the crowd with a forward slip to a short landing. It has no problems shedding airspeed, and the attitude of a large a/c in an aggressive slip is something to see. Getting down and stopped quickly would be a finale to be be enjoyed... Is the aircraft placarded no flaps in slip?

The actual maneuver leaves one mystified. What could have been the pilot's plan?

[22/04]

There isn't much room for error in the "how it is supposed to be done though.

Stall at >1g trying to pull though as there was not enough room?

[Kulverstukas]

"Only in Russia"

rMD6995moTY

[Concours77]

There is a YT of a formation of AT-6's "water skiing" on a lake.
It's cool, and stupid.

In the "do it this way" clip, doesn't look "close" at all to me. Push Nose down, roll right, level out. Good timing, no tears.

I don't think there was Stall. "Pulling through" isn't what our pilot needed. He needed to arrest his descent, and he appears to have begun to input correct controls just as his left wings snagged the turf.....

In a turn with roll at or near ninety degrees, "Up" is sideways. We got a glimpse of correct controls just as the right wings caught the airstream after cartwheeling, a bit late....?

imo

[Flying Binghi]

...The actual maneuver leaves one mystified. What could have been the pilot's plan?

Kulverstukas put a video of a prior routine in post #28. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud1RFzJ34sw

In the #28 video the pilot finishes the left diving turn rolling the aircraft right to end up flying wings level aligned parallel with the crowd line then does a climbing turn. Going off the Kulverstukas comments it appears it is a well practised routine.

In the accident vid the aircraft actually looks to be verring to the left of the parallel display line with no right roll even initiated before ground impact ?





.

[rnzoli]

Spatial disorientation or distraction in the cockpit?
I can't imagine any other reasons for flying into the ground in such a controlled way :(

[Concours77]

rnzoli. Yes CFIT. Hence my muse about his "plan". Flying Binghi, I referenced post 28 above, the maneuver looks pretty vanilla, and not that risky when done with good timing.

You also brought up right rudder at impact. I saw that also, so a conclusion of "late" timing would be a reasonable explanation for the accident?

Inexperience may have allowed him to get too low, misjudging the rate of descent in knife edge. Assuming his plan was similar to Kulver's surmise....

[Flying Binghi]

rnzoli. Yes CFIT. Hence my muse about his "plan". Flying Binghi, I referenced post 28 above, the maneuver looks pretty vanilla, and not that risky when done with good timing.

You also brought up right rudder at impact. I saw that also, so a conclusion of "late" timing would be a reasonable explanation for the accident?

Inexperience may have allowed him to get too low, misjudging the rate of descent in knife edge. Assuming his plan was similar to Kulver's surmise....

Concours77, you may very well be right, though the right rudder input suggests to me a possible jammed control. (Note, my AN2 cockpit time is under an hour flying level around a circuit at slow speed, and that were a long time ago. I did own a Yak52 for a number of years so have some Russian equipment exposure)


I don't like blaming pilots for anything unless there is an accident report suggesting otherwise, so...

Looking again at the #28 video of a prior airshow: As the aircraft recovers from the turning dive and rolls right to the wings level altitude the smoke from the exorst stays close to the fuselage - the ball would be centred. Suggests to me a co-ordinated rudder and aileron input. What i carn't see is if the exorst outlet is the same as the modified extended one shown in the accident aircraft video.

In the accident video it appears to me that the exorst smoke trail gradually veers further away from the aircraft as it would entering into a controlled 'knife edge' flight. (AN2 would probably need another ten thousand horse power to do full knife edge) Going off the videos of prior airshow displays the pilot was not doing anything near a knife edge flight at that part of the display though was doing a rolling right turn to fly wings level and parrele to the flight line before entering the next manoeuvre.

As the AN2 is not designed for aerobatics as such (It is a heavyweight ag plane though) I would surmise that the flight controls would get fairly heavy as the airspeed increases. The accident pilot would from prior display experience expect to be 'strong arming' the controls as the aircraft came out of the left turning dive doing a right roll. If the controls were jammed in any way, because of prior expectations of heavy control inputs it may not become immediately apparent that there is a problem - it would likely be several seconds of confusion before the issue became apparent.

I'd suggest that the gradually veering smoke trail indicates the pilot was attempting to do the normal co-ordinated aileron and rudder right roll recovery though did not pick up on a jammed aileron until it were to late.






.

[rnzoli]

The jammed control theory has 2 weak points

1) the a/c is a fully coordinated diving turn down to 2 feet between wingtip and grass, when it's already way too late to recover. If you have an aileron jam, you would notice the turn becoming uncoordinated (smoke detaching from the fuselage) at a much greater height, because you get your independent right rudder input responded by the a/c, but no response to the aileron input. There is no sight of anything like that.

2) Jammed controls typicall result in an uncontrollable high speed, high angle impact with the ground, with small impact crater radius. On the other hand, crashes due to misjudged height above terrain result in high speed, but low angle collisions with the ground, resulting in the long trail of debrish along the crash path. This crash fits into the latter category.

For me it's more interesting, why the pilots made this mistake. I have seen a MiG-23 crash resembling this one. High speed flying towards spectators, perpendicular to the runway, and high bank turn in the last seconds. The result was similar, that aircraft actually bounced from the ground, engine fire occured and crashed 1 km away eventually.

So somehow this type of crash is intrinsic to, "coded" into the manouver. If you turn early, it is not spectacular enough, you can't scare the crowd. But if you turn late, you lose more altitude than originally planned, gain higher speed in the process. Turning at that point will require more than the usual control forces, higher G loading etc. The safety rules say that the aircraft cannot overfly the crowd, but in case of the pilot already making the mistake and missed the regular point of turning parallel with the spectators, it would be actually much safer to allow the aircraft to stay level, climb and fly over the spectators.

[Flying Binghi]

The jammed control theory has 2 weak points...



Heh, ..just two?..:) Since posting I've thought of several more weak points in my theory.

I do note though that the aircraft had sufficient height to actually veer left of what i take to be the display line (pararelle to the crowd line) before impacting the ground. If the pilot had miss-judged the height would not the aircraft impact the ground before attaining the display line (i.e. Heading to the right of the display line) or actually on the line? In one of the videos posted by Kulverstukas the aircraft looks to be heading almost 30º away to the left of the display line before impact.






.

[Concours77]

FB,

I think the Ruddering issue is not too germane; the impact was more or less concurrent with what I saw as rudder deflection. It suggests a late attempt to stop deviation from flight path, which I assume aligns with the runway, or was intended to.

The separated smoke trail and "veering left" suggests to me a slipping (or sinking) aircraft, which is not at all desired....

Aircraft heading looks quite left of (desired) heading to me also. The debris trail, seemingly more aligned with the runway, tells us the actual flight path at impact, and also suggests an uncoordinated condition....(nose left of heading).

One last thing is the arc (veer) of the last portion of the flight. It suggests to me an aircraft losing lift, not in control. Even had it been corrected with Rudder, it would have entered an even more aggressive slip. Recovery was not possible well before impact, IMO.

(Because of the extreme roll, "slip" and "skid" must be considered with a grain of salt....)

[Kulverstukas]

H3QV1xG2YII

It was here, but vimeo video was removed for unclear reason. This is the training flight two days before accident, 31/08/17, but at the base airfield (Severka) not at the actual one.

[Kulverstukas]

Inexperience may have allowed him to get too low....

Information about the pilot: Gender male, 10.07.1968.

The following pilot certificates to the FAC are presented to the commission:
The certificate of the pilot of commercial aviation III P No. 007510, issued VKK FAVT MT of the Russian Federation on 15.12.2004. Admitted for: Yak-18T (30.12.2003), Cessna-208 (22.12.2005) (all as PIC and pilot-instructor).
Certificate of Aviation Specialist No. 002065, issued by CA ROSTO 25.04.2005. Admitted for: the Yak-52 (2005), An-2 (2005), Cessna-172 (2005). Mi-2 helicopter (2005). (All as a PIC and pilot-instructor).
The certificate of the amateur pilot III P No. 002282, issued by the VKK Rosaviatsii 30.08.2011. Admitted for: Cessna-172 (2011) as a PIC.
The certificate of the linear pilot № 0043187, issued by the VKK FAVT MT of the Russian Federation 11/06/2015. Admitted for: Boeing-747 (pilot- instructor).
The certificate of the linear pilot (first class) I П № 013767, issued VKK FAS of Russia on 17.07.2007. Admitted for: Yak-42 (13/10/2000, PIC), Falcon 20/2000 (15.04.2004, Pilot-instructor) Boeing-757 (12.03.2010, PIC, instructor), Boeing-747 (26.07.2011, PIC).
Certificate of the pilot of transport aviation No. 3193771, issued July 18, 2008 by the US Air Administration. Admitted for: Сhallenger-650, Embraer-145 (PIC).
The validity of these certificates and the availability of qualification checks are being refined.
The total flight time is 14600 hours (according to the records in the flight book), total hours on type / of them as a PIC are being refined, meteorological minimum category III A ICAO 15X200X150

[Concours77]

Who was PF? The "amateur" had only C172 time? Is total time an aggregate of all these airmen? That seems odd.

This accident does most closely resemble CFIT. That means our pilot was distracted, incapacitated, unfamiliar, or experienced mechanical issues.

More of a puzzle. Suggest a placard: "Fly wings level below two hundred feet AGL"

[Kulverstukas]

Who was PF? The "amateur" had only C172 time? Is total time an aggregate of all these airmen? That seems odd.


All this documents belongs to one man, PF at the accident. Second seat occupant at this flight was only a photographer and doesn't even mentioned in accident report of MAK (IAC).

[Kulverstukas]

Type of aircraft: An-2T
State and registration badges: RA-35171
Certificate of State Registration: No. 7378, issued by UIBP FAVT MT of the Russian Federation 02.09.2015
Information about the owner of the aircraft: Private person

Information on aircraft: Manufacturer PZL-MIELEC (Poland), date 30.12.1969, Serial No. 1G 11310, Certificate of Airworthiness No. 2132100181, issued SZ MTU Rosaviatsii 15.11.2010, valid until 15.11.2012,
operating time 19721 h (as of 05/05/2015, further data are absent),
assigned resource / service life 20000 h / not established, overhaul
resource / service life 2000 h / 5 years, number of repairs 12, date and place
the last repair 04.04.2008 OJSC "MARZ DOSAAF", working time after repair
466 hours (as of May 28, 2015), the remainder of the designated resource / service life
279 h (as of 05/28/2015) / is not established, service life and resource are not prolonged.
The remainder of the overhaul life / service life of 279 hours (for
05/05/2015) / The overhaul period has expired on 04/04/2013

Engine: АШ-62ИР, manufactured by WSK PZL Kalisz S.A. (Poland),
date 16.05.1986, factory No. K 1642620, the operating time of SNE 3684 hours (on
28.05.2015), the designated resource / service life of 6000 h / not established,
overhaul life / service life 800 h / 6 years, number of repairs 4,
date and place of the last repair 17.03.2008 OJSC «MARZ DOSAAF»,
operating time after repair 466 h (as of May 28, 2015), between the overhaul resource left / service life 334 h (as of May 28, 2015) / time between repairs
service expired on 03/17/2015

[Concours77]

So I reject Pilot Error. My best guess, especially with an errant rudder, is the seat track or seat support broke, and pilot had no fixed position to articulate controls.

The Rudder may have reacted to an attempt by the pilot to gain a position from which to use controls.

It's happened before, more than once. It happened to me. It was a challenge to maintain straight and level...let alone knife edge...

Respect

[Flying Binghi]

So I reject Pilot Error. My best guess, especially with an errant rudder, is the seat track or seat support broke, and pilot had no fixed position to articulate controls...



It will be interesting to see what the investigation comes up with. At least when the accident happened there were a field full of AN2 drivers watching so there will be no shortage of expert witnesses to the actual flight.

From the Kulverstukas post i see the aircraft had near 20 thousand hours airframe time. The AN2 job description is to operate in the rough field ops so i imagine those 20K hours would have been hard work.





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[Concours77]

I passed this thread along to a friend, also a pilot, who may have figured this out.

He believes that at the last moment to pull out, the pilot figured that on his current heading, he would likely fly into the audience. Hence the pull on the stick, and the change of heading, which led to the impact and fatal cartwheel.....

Works for me.

[Kulverstukas]

Preliminary report (http://mak-iac.org/upload/iblock/251/preliminary_report_ra-35171.pdf) was published by MAK (IAC) (Russian)

[Flying Binghi]

Preliminary report (http://mak-iac.org/upload/iblock/251/preliminary_report_ra-35171.pdf) was published by MAK (IAC) (Russian)

A translation of the summery would be helpful..:)






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[Kulverstukas]

Nothing very interesting except that 2P was not buckled and that they rescued video from GoPro.
Ah, also info that fuel used was a strange mix of gas and kerosene (but it was hardly cause).
Also that CPT till 2016 was a 747 pilot-instructor at ABC.

[Flying Binghi]

Wonder what the 2P were up to. There doesn't appear to be an Astro bubble to shoot film out off. Perhaps attending to other cameras or perhaps just forgot to buckle up.





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[Concours77]

Maybe they were promised 1G?

[Flying Binghi]

If you look at the wing-over manoeuvres (stall turns) in the display routine videos posted in this thread i doubt there were any promise to maintain 1G.





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[Concours77]

Maybe they were promised 1G?

What I said...

Panic can create actions that make no sense, eg: "maybe I can jump out before we hit?"

"Was his instruction tighten restraints, or loosen?"

Or, more than rated G whilst restrained, severing the belts?

[Pilot DAR]

Or, more than rated G whilst restrained, severing the belts?

That was my experience last summer, the seat belt I had been wearing was recovered among the wreckage, with bits of airframe still attached where it had ripped out of the floor.

[Kulverstukas]

Just to clarify, exact phrase from report translates as:
Cpt body was found inside cockpit, at his working place, belted. He died because of impact trauma and fire. 2P belts was not buckled at the time of impact and he was thrown out of the cabin and died because of impact trauma.

[Flying Binghi]

Just to clarify, exact phrase from report translates as:
Cpt body was found inside cockpit, at his working place, belted. He died because of impact trauma and fire. 2P belts was not buckled at the time of impact and he was thrown out of the cabin and died because of impact trauma.

I note this is a preliminary report and obviously brief, though did they mention what sort of buckle it were ? The reliability history of the buckle ?






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[Kulverstukas]

I note this is a preliminary report and obviously brief, though did they mention what sort of buckle it were ?


No, none of both.

[Concours77]

The important belt seemed to have been serviceable., per the interim. Even if 2P belt held, it's mounting may have torn from the fuselage, (as above, Pilot DAR).

The most probable conclusion CFIT, but for what reasons? I still think PF had an inkling he may strike the ground, and if he did not change flight path, many would die. So perhaps a heroic sacrifice at the last? Many accidents state these reasons: "Hero Pilot".....

[Kulverstukas]

Just for another clarification, An-2 has only waist belt, not shoulder one.

[Concours77]

Just for another clarification, An-2 has only waist belt, not shoulder one.

Because not certified for aero. Time for retrofit, or placard "no aero"? The accident in question appeared not survivable, seat, shoulder, whatever.

[Flying Binghi]

Just for another clarification, An-2 has only waist belt, not shoulder one.

There may have been a different type of belt fitted. I note the exorst appears to me to have been modified for the air display smoke so other airframe mods may have been done.





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[Kulverstukas]

There may have been a different type of belt fitted. I note the exorst appears to me to have been modified for the air display smoke so other airframe mods may have been done.
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Based on multiple videos from the cockpit and livejournal posts of plane owner and his friends about training and show flights at Orlovka (http://maps.aopa.ru/id/UUTO) and Severka (http://maps.aopa.ru/id/UUML) (where this plane was based) - unfortunately mostly these is now deleted from internet - there was no mods done except exhaust pipe and mount for GPS in the cockpit. They don't bother neither with repaint nor with proper documents and airworthiness renewal/prolongation (as you can see from docs posted, it was ended two years ago both for airframe and engine).

[Kulverstukas]

Final report published (https://mak-iac.org/upload/iblock/821/report_ra-35171.pdf) (in Russian)

The most likely cause of the crash of the An-2 RA-35171 was the failure of the PIC to take into account specific of the An-2 management at high flight speeds (an increase in the time required for the aircraft to leave the bank due to the decrease in the angles of the aileron deflection due to the pulling of the cable line due to a significant increase in forces in the transverse control channel at speeds of 270-300 km / h), which did not allow the aircraft to withdraw from the descent when maneuvering with large bank angles at an extremely low altitude.

The contributing factors were:

- flying the aircraft at modes beyond the limits set by the flight manual of the An-2 aircraft;

- Maneuvering at an altitude less than that established for performing a demonstration flight over the aerodrome.

[rnzoli]

Thanks!
And if I see it correctly, the report has pictures taken from the onboard camera, that was recording the whole accident sequence. The control inputs show full aileron deflection attempt to roll right and level.

[Kulverstukas]

Yes. And the conclusion is "too fast, too low".

[Concours77]

On another current thread, the tragic crash of an airliner is under discussion. The aircraft came to grief according to the authority, because an aileron cable “separated”. Yet the aircraft in question was notorious for having “sloppy” aileron inputs, due to untensioned or temp expanded cabling. The official conclusion ignores many areas of study, one of which is the “lack of tension” left in the system post Maintenance. Arguably the loose control cables could have caused the crash, but were ignored in favor of blaming mechanics. No proof of cable separation was found, the conclusion is pure conjecture.

[Pilot DAR]

Having flown a few aircraft with loose cable sloppy ailerons, I have been aware that I could detect this sloppiness as reduced handling in that aircraft. Having noted this condition for that aircraft, I flew it with greater caution. For the routine flown in the accident aircraft, prior to the crash, I would think that a pilot experienced on type would have had the opportunity to get a sense of the aircraft condition in this respect.

[Concours77]

Who would know through experience about the inherent Slop if that was his first time at sixty degrees in roll and beyond Vne? One would hope that was his first excursion to that speed? Who knows the aero of a heavy sluggish biplane with chronically loose controls?

At least one guy, though he cannot share his experience?

[Propsforever]

Ist a shame i couldnt read the Accident Report, but the Cockpit Pictures brought up a Memory of the past:


I have flown the AN2 for 10yrs. in my sparetime for Sightseeing flights.
A friend of mine operated 4 of them on an AOC in Germany.


When we arrived at an Airshow often we did a Flyby with some manouevering before we landed and prepared our Sales Stand.


One day after the low pass i pulled up and turned to the right doin app. 250kmh and was greeted by Buffeting until the slat came out.


The next Thing to remember is that a Coordinated steep turn in an AN2 is "NOT" Rudder neutral. Above a moderate Bank you Need In Turn Rudder and Out of Bank Aileron to get the ball centered. This is because the AN2 has a Spiral Dive Tendency in steep turns. This amount of Aileron is already subtracted from your Roll Authority.


Also to get a bit more Rate of Roll i used sometimes a big boot of Rudder, which boosted Roll big way ( Only when playing around, not on Commercial Flights).


The Ailerons are both Sloppy and heavy. And in this Special case nobody knows how well the Accident Aircraft was maintained especially Cable Tension.

[Pilot DAR]

Welcome to PPRuNe Propsforever, thank you for the insight. It's always nice to hear from pilots with experience flying types less common to some of us "western" pilots!

[punkalouver]

(58) Pilot's WORST Mistake Is His Last! - YouTube

Pretty strange to be doing aerobatics in a plane like that at an airshow when you haven't flown the aircraft type in years. Interesting about the cable slack affecting the ailerons. but it appears that the real mistake was upon discovering that he was closer to the crowd than desired, he pulled too hard and lost control. In the end, just fly safely over the crowd if you made an error instead of doing something drastic and crashing.

[ATC Watcher]

Thanks for that excellent video Punkalouver.. A good demonstration on how Russian general aviation was regulated in 2017.:rolleyes:
Banking 60 degrees just below Vne on a cable driven aircraft would need quite some muscles and , from what the description is , the cables might just slide on the pulleys , and the forces on the control surfaces keep stuck on the last input . I experienced that on a Super Cub when I was younger and more stupid, Not a pretty feeling I can tell you.. ,.
I flew (briefly) the Ans 2 in Poland in the early 90s, very easy to fly , cannot really stall like a normal aircraft , more like parachuting down, and it can fly very slow (55Km/h) but one thing one should not do is fly fast. At least that was what the Polish FIs were telling us never to do. As to performing aerobatics like on this video, crazy to attempt from the start.....