Keeping down the cost of the IR

[Jimmy Mack]

I'm after some hints for what to read/practice before starting the multi IR course in April.

Got Instrument Flying by David Hoy to read.
Got FS98 which I reckon might help with procedures etc, even if it isn't close to flying the real thing/sim.

Anyone been here before? What did you do?

Any IR horror stories...for interest?

[Jimmy Mack]

No-one done an IR then? .....

[RVR800]

Check yor E-mail
RV

[QNH 1013]

JM, I wrote out a reply a couple of days ago but when I tried to send it PPRUNE said my password was wrong. When I typed in the password again I found my message had gone !

The following is just my advise. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I did the IR three months ago.
* Contact the school, find out which instructor you will be getting and get copies of the checklists you will be using.
* Learn the checklists that you will be using so that they are second nature to you. Practice and practice them all the time, eg in your car, at your desk, in the pub. Burn them into your brain. You can't afford to be paying the best part of £300 ph in the aeroplane while perfecting the checklists.
* The IR is all about workload. Do absolutely everything you can in your own time on the ground. Study the airways in the training areas, learn which, if any are "wrong way". Study the half-mil chart and look for all the danger areas within an hours flying of the test centre. Write yourself a list of them and their details.
* You will be shown a lot of techniques and tricks by your instructor, eg for updating your eta at an airway join. Practice again and again on your sim with random winds.
* David Hoys book is the best of its type I have seen but remember that the test is slightly longer now with a partial panel handling section and I don't think this is in the Hoy book.
*During the first few hours, the IR seems impossible. Just keep at it and keep thinking about it. At the begining of the course it took me over two hours to do the flight log and flight plan. By the time of the test I could do the flight log in under twenty minutes and the flight plan in under two minutes.
*If you make a mistake during the test don't give up. I made a number of minor mistakes but as soon as I realised I pointed out to the examiner what I had missed and then I did something about it ! I got a first time pass.
*Make sure you have enough funds (or credit) to go far beyond the anticipated hours. The latter part of my training was dominated by worries about the debt I was running up and I think this slowed my progress, and therefore cost me even more.
* Good Luck, and all the best for a first-time pass.

[FLY BY NIGHT]

Sounds like good advice from 1013. One of the main problems with the test is stress. To cut the stress down I flew enough hours to feel confident. Your demonstrating your ability to command and make decisions, that takes confidence. So as said, budget for more hours.
I also made a point of not doing too much before the course as I didn't want to learn one way and then have to follow another. Again though the previous advice on checks is a good one. Where are you going?

[muppet]

Spend as much time on the sim as possible. FS98 is not good enough you need something like proflight 2000, (the dials are large and have a digital readout for mega accuracy), which is free if you know someone with a cd rewriter.
Spend hours on this learning all the procedures you are likely to come across. No good arriving having requested a radar vectored ILS at Coventry to be told its out and you will have to do a procedural NDB. ( the holds the other way round at coventry so all the entrys are different). Muck about with the wind. Set it with your eyes closed so you have to work out what is going on as you track into the beacon and go round the the hold for the first time. Do it properly. Call all the checks as you go, practise the rt, ident all the aids properly do the routes to get a feel for the timing. Use the stop watch, treat it for real and if anything goes wrong do not simply accept it, do it again until you get it right. The sim is where the work is done, on a pc it is free; you can stop and think. I have an IR and teach IMC, students who do well know the plates backwards so they can concentrate on the finese not the basics. The aeroplane should be pure joy.
Phew that was a bit of a rant, but seriously get a decent instructor, devote yourself to it and enjoy it to the full. It should be the apex of your training.
Good Luck. Let us hear how you do. :) :) :)

[This message has been edited by muppet (edited 22 January 2001).]

[Jimmy Mack]

Good advice guys....

I've got 3 months to try and cut down the stress then! Guess it is hard to find the balance...what to practice without learning the 'wrong' way. One worry is I haven't done much on a twin for quite some time...a lot of hours on a complex single, but that's not the same!

I'm booked in at Bristol Flying Centre - spoke to Wally, so I guess he (or one of his guys) will be my instructor. Think it would be useful to ring him to get checklists as you suggest.

I've got a CD rewriter...just need ProFlight 2000 or similar then! Any offers?!!

RVR...I'll go read my e-mail - haven't seen it yet cos it's one I use at home - I also use one at work, so I don't look at teh home one too often.

I'll keep you updated whilst I'm doing the course...might be interesting to see how things change during the course.

It needs to be hard...It gives one hell of a lot of responsibility once achieved!

I'm not n.n.n.nervous.......

:) http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif :)

[This message has been edited by Jimmy Mack (edited 24 January 2001).]

[Jimmy Mack]

Just bringing this one to the top again, cos editing my reply left it at the bottom!

See above!

:)

[QNH 1013]

Another suggestion, which may avoid some difficulties that have been highlighted:
Ring Wally (never met him but have heard he is one of the best) and ask for a sim slot asap. It won't cost you much and they should be able to fit you in for half a day without waiting 3-months for your course to start. A half day, will give you briefing, and prob about an hour and a half in two sessions on the sim.
You will then have an awful lot of info on the way they want you to do things so your subsequent home study won't be wasting your time going in the wrong direction.
Believe me, the time in the sim will not be wasted.

Good Luck, and let us know how you get on.

[Vigilant Driver]

It really helps if you start with an IMC rating under your belt. The IR is just then a multi eng IMC with airways.

Do as much Frasca type sim as you can. A good school should let you use the sim free out of hours on your own.

Know you plates and airways. Also what FLs you need to be at in the airway going in that particular direction. Also who to talk to. Fly the route on the ground first!

David Hoy's book is a top read. I recommend it to my IMC students.

Good Luck and Enjoy!

[Dragger of Tail]

My advice would be to practice in a Frasca sim until you can fly a complete IR profile perfectly, before you start flying the aircraft. David Hoy's book is very good, he was my instructor for the IR. If you read the lists of mistakes you might make, you will see one that I made, which, I suspect is quite unique... No, I am not going to own up to which one it was!
Best of luck.

[A and C]

Are you multi -rated yet if not go and do as a PPL student as this can be a cheaper way than as a commercial student and use eny cash you save to fly the multi befor you start the IR.

The hardest thing i ever did in flying was the IMC rating because it was all new to me the IR is just a matter of polishing the skills.
the good thing with the UK/JAA IR is that you will know what is comming next in the test and so can practice the test more or less as you will get it ,when i did the FAA/IR it was much more of a test of piloting skill as you did not know what was going to happen next and had to be able to think on your feet.

[Jimmy Mack]

I have the multi rating - got about 30 hours on Senecas...but that was a while ago. The rating isn't current - so I need to renew it first. The closest thing I have that is current is 200 or so hours in the last 12 months on an Arrow (complex single), so that helps a bit.

Got an IMC, Night and abotu 150 hours instrument flying, but not on twins.

I think I'll give Wally a call and try and get some time down there pre April.

I have read the section in Hoy on "mistakes you can make". There's plenty of them!!!

I think nerves are going to be a MAJOR factor.

DH...MAP or find nearest available toilet!

[Dragger of Tail]

J M
For me the biggest problem was nerves/stress. The mistakes you can make while cr+pping yourself are amazing. Try not to take the test until you are fairly confident. I was probably too concerned about running out of cash and probably took it a little too early. As I remember my examiner did not go out of his way to make me feel at ease, although I am told most examiners are almost human.

[Jimmy Mack]

Dragger of Tail .... I'm going to HAVE to figure out which unique mistake was yours!

They didn't draw any of the pictures in the book based around your test did they?!

:)

[expedite_climb]

I think a PC based sim is invaluble. No you dont need the latest and most expensive, FS 95 with UK pack will do.

You will not learn anything about flying from it, but you can learn the procedures inside out and back to front. Find out the airfields and routes that the examiner is likely to use, and learn them. That is half the problem solved.

Bristol do an IR quite cheap really. The price they quote seems high, but dont forget that it is airborne only, and their sim is good enough to get most of it done there. I only did 3 or 4 hrs in the aircraft.

[Dragger of Tail]

J M
Do not gloat too much, I would give anything to see your face on the morning of the test, or your expression when A.T.C. route you miles in the wrong direction then tell you to "resume own navigation expect a charlie one november" (and you have not got a clue what a charlie one november looks like).

Only kidding, good luck.
P.S. you will never guess which one it was.

[FLY BY NIGHT]

Thats life. They can give you any route within 150nm. Some are easy some complete Bstds. I think taking a test in winter helped as there was far less traffic and ATC. had time to make life easy for you. The weather was awful of course. But as said before, don't go to tight on the hours.

[Jimmy Mack]

OK Dragger of Tail....suitably reprimanded. I'm sure I'll make some pretty stupid mistakes...I certainly have done some silly ones to date...and there's nothing so far as hard as the IR!

As a result of this thread, BFC actually e-mailed me with some helpful suggestions and an offer of the PA34 checklist...so that's been really helpful.

Any more for any more...anyone got any amusing/intersting tales of what happened to them on their IR?

:)

[Jimmy Mack]

So I've got my checklist and tips on which plates and routes to study.

Will take up the advice to have a couple of sessions prior to starting the course...good advice.

Anyone got any more tips, tricks, lessons learned the hard way?......