EASA (UK) PPL to FAA Conversion Question

[vatir]

Hi Everyone,

I am planning my time building in Florida early next year and started the process of EASA to FAA conversion.

I believe I need to get the Verification of a Licence Issued by the UK CAA first.
Here: https://www.caa.co.uk/General-aviation/Pilot-licences/Applications/Outside-EASA/Verify-your-licence/ (https://www.caa.co.uk/General-aviation/Pilot-licences/Applications/Outside-EASA/Verify-your-licence/)

After I do the Verification, Do I have to wait for CAA to confirm anything or do I have to wait I don't know for a couple of weeks then send my Application to FAA or should I just do it straight away?

Cheers

[rudestuff]

How many hours do you need to build? I would definitely recommend getting a few lessons and doing a stand-alone FAA PPL. Then add an IR to it during your hour building. It will save you an arm and a leg when it comes to getting your EASA IR. I didn't do that, I just flew around VFR and I regretted it ever since.

[vatir]

The offer I have is for 115 hours and it costs $8500. Which is a pretty good value for money I would say.

Can you please elaborate a little bit on what you mentioned?

[rudestuff]

Sure. For some reason a lot of schools suggest doing a CPL first, then an IR. So you end up doing a PPL and night rating, then hour build up to 175 hours, then do a 25 hour CPL course with around 200 hours. THEN you do a multi rating and IR course (45 hours reduced from 55 because you have a CPL) so you end up with well over 200 hours plus SIM time and it all costs a lot of money. This is great for schools for that reason - and I did just that.

However, what you end up doing is flying big VFR circles around Florida or Arizona and having loads of fun but getting very little quality training value from it. So my suggestion would be this:
If you're already paying for the plane, any extra instruction will only cost the price of the instructor, so spend 5 hours practicing and take your FAA PPL. Then fly for a while to get 50 hours cross country PIC. Make sure that every flight you do lands somewhere 50NM away. Fly at night if you can. Once you have 50 hours XC do your FAA IR - it'll only cost you the instructor rate for 20-40 hours. (In the US you need 40 hours under the hood, but only 20 of those need to be with an instructor, you can practice with a mate as safety pilot)
If you come back to the UK with an FAA PPL/IR and 170 hours, you can convert the IR in 15 hours (down from 45 hours), then do a 15 hour CPL course (down from 25 hours. If you play your cards right, you could have everything with 200 hours.

Effectively you'll be getting your EASA IR for free if you spend $2000 extra in the US.

Basically, you need to future proof yourself: think what you might need in the future and get it now while it's free. Imagine you get a job as an FO and a few years down the line you get offered command - but you can't upgrade because you only have 65 hours night and you need 100 hours night for an ATPL. You'll have to go hour building all over again. An hour in the logbook is good, but an hour IFR cross country at night is a lot more valuable.

[loofah]

Excellent advice from rudestuff. Also ask yourself what an interview would go like when asked ' what did you do in your hours building? '

[nebojsar]

115 hr for 8500USD is excellent offer. Can you send me some link on pm. I would go there maybe to get PPL and do FAA IR.

[vatir]

Rudestuff,

Thanks so much, Great advice, very valuable and thanks for sharing. It's really a no brainer.
Just one question however, So I can't do FAA/IR with my converted licence, right?

and do you think all the above is achievable in 5 weeks?

Cheers

[Fire and brimstone]

115 hr for 8500USD is excellent offer. Can you send me some link on pm. I would go there maybe to get PPL and do FAA IR.


Does anyone know if these exists?

On the basis most pilots have to sit for hours, every working day, with little or no opportunity to move about, one assumes there are some issues.

Is this data published?

Has anyone seen it?

Perhaps it is especially pertinent for pilots, as most other industries have stipulated mandatory rest breaks. Pilots generally don't get these (I am assuming conducting walk-around check either once or twice in eleven hours does not constitute a proper break).

As 'sitting' is the new 'smoking' I argue it is reasonable for pilots to be made aware of the risks?

Thanks.

I've just done literally a few minutes research into this, and it's thrown up information I have never been made aware of.

E.g. Links between illness and sitting as far back as the 1950's .......... London bus drivers were TWICE as likely to have a heart attack as their bus conductor colleagues.

Prof. Biddle: "Essentially the body is 'shutting down' while sitting and there is little muscle activity. (Obvious).

......... accelerated bone loss, muscle loss and ageing.

I've never seen this on a job advert for pilots - usually they just mention pay and number of weeks holiday.

[MarkerInbound]

If you get the 61.75 "based on" FAA private there are two paths to an I/R. If you hold a foreign I/R and pass the Instrument Foreign Pilot written test before you you go to the FAA office to have your private issued you will be granted a private certificate with an I/R. That certificate is only valid if the foreign license is valid. To fly IFR in the states your EASA license would have to allow you to fly IFR in Europe.

Or you can do the paperwork shuffle, get the 61.75 certificate and then pass the regular I/R written test and regular I/R checkride. The examiner will then add the I/R to your 61.75 certificate with the note US TEST PASSED. If you were at some point to get a FAA commercial this I/R would transfer over to that certificate.

[dera]

However, what you end up doing is flying big VFR circles around Florida or Arizona and having loads of fun but getting very little quality training value from it. So my suggestion would be this:
If you're already paying for the plane, any extra instruction will only cost the price of the instructor, so spend 5 hours practicing and take your FAA PPL. Then fly for a while to get 50 hours cross country PIC. Make sure that every flight you do lands somewhere 50NM away. Fly at night if you can. Once you have 50 hours XC do your FAA IR - it'll only cost you the instructor rate for 20-40 hours. (In the US you need 40 hours under the hood, but only 20 of those need to be with an instructor, you can practice with a mate as safety pilot)
If you come back to the UK with an FAA PPL/IR and 170 hours, you can convert the IR in 15 hours (down from 45 hours), then do a 15 hour CPL course (down from 25 hours. If you play your cards right, you could have everything with 200 hours.

Effectively you'll be getting your EASA IR for free if you spend $2000 extra in the US.

Basically, you need to future proof yourself: think what you might need in the future and get it now while it's free. Imagine you get a job as an FO and a few years down the line you get offered command - but you can't upgrade because you only have 65 hours night and you need 100 hours night for an ATPL. You'll have to go hour building all over again. An hour in the logbook is good, but an hour IFR cross country at night is a lot more valuable.

Wish it was as easy as you make it sound like.

First of all - you need a visa for this, so you have to go through a Part 141 school.

Second, you still have to meet all the prerequisites for FAA PPL, it's not just "5 hours dual", you need the night dual, instrument, X/C dual etc.

Third, it's much more expensive than you say, $400-600 per exam for the DPE alone so around $1k in just DPE fees for PPL and IR.

Btw, you only need 15 dual for IR. If you do your PPL with a CFII, you get 3 then. I had 12 hours with my CFII when I did my IR.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Sure. For some reason a lot of schools suggest doing a CPL first, then an IR. So you end up doing a PPL and night rating, then hour build up to 175 hours, then do a 25 hour CPL course with around 200 hours. THEN you do a multi rating and IR course (45 hours reduced from 55 because you have a CPL) so you end up with well over 200 hours plus SIM time and it all costs a lot of money. This is great for schools for that reason - and I did just that.

However, what you end up doing is flying big VFR circles around Florida or Arizona and having loads of fun but getting very little quality training value from it. So my suggestion would be this:
If you're already paying for the plane, any extra instruction will only cost the price of the instructor, so spend 5 hours practicing and take your FAA PPL. Then fly for a while to get 50 hours cross country PIC. Make sure that every flight you do lands somewhere 50NM away. Fly at night if you can. Once you have 50 hours XC do your FAA IR - it'll only cost you the instructor rate for 20-40 hours. (In the US you need 40 hours under the hood, but only 20 of those need to be with an instructor, you can practice with a mate as safety pilot)
If you come back to the UK with an FAA PPL/IR and 170 hours, you can convert the IR in 15 hours (down from 45 hours), then do a 15 hour CPL course (down from 25 hours. If you play your cards right, you could have everything with 200 hours.

Effectively you'll be getting your EASA IR for free if you spend $2000 extra in the US.

Basically, you need to future proof yourself: think what you might need in the future and get it now while it's free. Imagine you get a job as an FO and a few years down the line you get offered command - but you can't upgrade because you only have 65 hours night and you need 100 hours night for an ATPL. You'll have to go hour building all over again. An hour in the logbook is good, but an hour IFR cross country at night is a lot more valuable.

I strongly agree with the essence of this message, that is, think carefully about what you will need in the future in order to make the best use out of the Time Building.

For instance, I'm just a PPL+NVFR. Have a flown 100h/60h PIC. In those hours I've already done my qualifying CPL cross-country, my 10 night hours PIC, my 50 hours XC PIC and so on. I avoid pointless flights of the "drilling holes in the sky" type. Always go flying with a purpose. Take a VFR chart and go wherever the range of your plane will get you. Fly international flights, visit many aerodromes. Also throw in a couple "self-check" flights in between (PFLs, slow flight, stalls, EFATO simulation etc. DON'T do spins on your own), if possible with another pilot buddy who can sort of "evaluate" your performance. Learn how to fly by instruments even if VFR, use VORs and other navaids. Take non-pilot passengers with you and brief them properly etc.

However I can't say that going to the US is always cost effective. At least depending on where you're from. I'm doing my training in Southern Spain and the cost here isn't high enough to justify the whole USA Time Building thing. Also I hear most people go there on a budget, on a schedule, and need to fly say 100 hours within 4 weeks. This will undoubtedly reduce the quality of each hour because there won't be much time to digest, plan, analyze etc.

[vatir]

Thanks all for the advise.

One question however, If I get my Night Rating here in the UK before the FAA conversion, would it be added to the FAA licence?

[MarkerInbound]

There is no "night rating" under the FAA system. All FAA private pilots candidates must have 3 hours night dual instruction unless they apply under the Alaska exemption. If you apply for a FAA certificate under 61.75 you must comply with the restrictions of your foreign license. If it allows night flying, you are good to go. If it doesn't you can't. If your foreign license is one of those that lists every aircraft you are authorized to fly by make and model down to light single engine airplanes then those are the only types of light single engine airplanes you can fly with your 61.75 cert.

The FAA does provide this interesting guidance:

"Night Restriction. Some foreign pilot licenses contain a restriction that prohibits the person from operating an aircraft at night. As an example, some foreign CAAs require their citizens to hold an instrument rating and/or a night flying privilege to operate an aircraft at night. That person must also comply with that night operating restriction of his or her foreign pilot license when exercising the privileges of the § 61.75 U.S. pilot certificate (refer to § 61.75(e)(3)). To clarify, while the FAA may not remove the night flying restriction, it is permissible for a foreign pilot who receives a U.S. pilot certificate on the basis of the person’s foreign pilot license to accomplish the required night flying training (for the appropriate grade level of U.S. pilot certificate held) from a holder of an FAA flight instructor certificate, and receive a solo endorsement to exercise night flying privileges on his or her U.S. pilot certificate."

[r10bbr]

Hi Vatir, i sent you a dm in regards to asking about the school in question could you either dm me or tell us the school in question which is offering the 115 hours at the price you stated?

[B2N2]

I strongly agree with the essence of this message, that is, think carefully about what you will need in the future in order to make the best use out of the Time Building.

For instance, I'm just a PPL+NVFR. Have a flown 100h/60h PIC. In those hours I've already done my qualifying CPL cross-country, my 10 night hours PIC, my 50 hours XC PIC and so on. I avoid pointless flights of the "drilling holes in the sky" type. Always go flying with a purpose. Take a VFR chart and go wherever the range of your plane will get you. Fly international flights, visit many aerodromes. Also throw in a couple "self-check" flights in between (PFLs, slow flight, stalls, EFATO simulation etc. DON'T do spins on your own), if possible with another pilot buddy who can sort of "evaluate" your performance. Learn how to fly by instruments even if VFR, use VORs and other navaids. Take non-pilot passengers with you and brief them properly etc.

and need to fly say 100 hours within 4 weeks. This will undoubtedly reduce the quality of each hour because there won't be much time to digest, plan, analyze etc.

First part I agree with, last part I don't.
100 hrs in 4 weeks is 25hrs a week that's 5 hrs a day with two days off.
5 hrs a day are two 2.5 hr XC flights so 1:15 there and 1:15 back.
Take a couple of hrs break, nap, have lunch and do another 2.5hrs flight.
If you can't 'digest' or 'analyze' that leasurely schedule I'm not sure you're cut out for this.

I've met people that flew 100 hrs in 10 days.
Now that is bordering on the ridiculous and I would never agree to it.

[ackaraosman]

Hi Vatir, i sent you a dm in regards to asking about the school in question could you either dm me or tell us the school in question which is offering the 115 hours at the price you stated?
Did anoyone hear from Vatir about the mysterious 8500USD offer he got?

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