Help needed on 8 AEF Chippies 1966-1972

[Adrianh]

Hi Folks,
I was a young ATC cadet in the mid/ late 60's who dreamed of becoming a pilot in the RAF and had my first flight in a Chipmunk. The pilot let me take control for a short time before doing aerobatics and then in no time at all landed. He said I was a natural flyer and with that was grinning ear to ear for days after. I was hooked on flying.
Fast forward 50 years of RAF, then flying target drones for a living to the present and I have some great memories of those great days.

I'm researching colour schemes of the 8 AEF Chipmunks flown from RAF Shawbury from 1966 to 1972 . This is so the 1/4 scale model I'm about to build will be a replica of the first aircraft I took control of when I was an ATC cadet with 493 Sqn.
I remember vividly a "Winged 8" logo that was on each side of the fuselages below the front windscreen. Unfortunately I cannot find my ATC logbook but hopefully I may find a pic of my first Chippy. If anyone can post any pictures or info on the Chipmunk serials operating at that time I will be very grateful.
Adrian

[Aerials]

Hi Adrianh, I haven't had time to read through this link but you might find something there: http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/412255-raf-chipmunks.html?highlight=Chipmunk

[Dora-9]

AdrianH:

1966-1972 was a period when RAF Chipmunks' colour schemes underwent significant change. In 1966 they all would have been in the overall cellulose High Speed Silver with the DayGlo "strips" scheme. Towards 1969 the overall polyurethane Light Aircraft Grey scheme (sometimes with white canopy frames) was coming into service. Almost simultaneously, a new Red/White/Light Aircraft Grey (with red wingtips, leading edges and wingroots) scheme appeared, but only at 2 FTS. A second variant of these colours (this time with the wing outer panels & elevators in red, but now the wingroots in grey) started appearing around 1972. This latter scheme became widespread and is much more familiar. The 1968-1970 period is also when various AEF's and UAS' produced some quite flamboyant "Experimental" markings.

Regarding 8 AEF, you should be aware that this unit was co-located at RAF Shawbury with the University of Birmingham Air Squadron, and it seems that these two units shared their Chipmunks.


http://i.imgur.com/3nh7uRS.jpg


WB555 at Shawbury 1964 in the standard overall silver scheme.


http://i.imgur.com/RLD6X58.jpg


WG417 with the "experimental" 8 AEF colours, c.1969. The aircraft is on overall grey, with white canopy frames. Note too how the DayGlo strips have been modified - rounded forward ends on the cowl sides while the rear fuselage strips are centred on the roundel and taper aft.


http://i.imgur.com/yJHpue3.jpg


WP859/Z at Shawbury November 1970. The backgound Chipmunks are WD331/W and WG307/U of UBAS. All are in the overall grey scheme with white canopies, but note that WD331 has square-corned DayGlo strips, with the lower rear fuselage strip centred on the roundel.


http://i.imgur.com/kF0Lvnz.jpg


A mixed 8 AEF/UBAS line-up at Shawbury in 1973. The only identifiable aircraft are (first on left) WP929 of 8 AEF, (4th from left) WK507/T of UBAS, next to it another unidentified UBAS Chipmunk while 2nd from the right end is "S" from UBAS, either WD353 or WG301. This photo really is worth a careful study - there are four different colour schemes here. The first three (from the left) are in the second R/W/LAG scheme, WG507 is in the first R/W/LAG scheme), next to it is an overall LAG aircraft, then another in the first R/W/LAG scheme, while the last two are arguably still in the overall silver scheme. There's not a "Winged 8" in sight, possibly because the three on the left have been recently re-painted.


I hope this helps...


Cheers!

[India Four Two]

Dora-9,

A small correction. When I was with UBAS from 1967 to 1969, I don't think the five UBAS Chipmunks were ever used for AEF flights. The Boss guarded his airframe hours very jealously!

On the other hand, I did occasionally fly other Chipmunks, but I'm not sure if they were 8 AEF's aircraft.

Incidentally, I've often wondered about the purpose of the individual letters. We never referred to them; we always used the serial numbers.

[Heathrow Harry]

I think the individual letters were a hang-over form the past - during WW1 and WW2 the serials were so small you couldn't see them when flying so each aircraft in the Squadron had an ID letter.

Also the "turnover" was sometimes so great you'd have a constant succesion of serials flying with you - much easier to just have a single letter I think

[Dora-9]

I42 - I used the word "seems" about aircraft pooling; one trustworthy source maintains that this occurred. But you were actually there and say this didn't happen, so maybe my use of weasel words was smarter than I thought?

HH - I think most RAF Chipmunk units used some form of individual a/c code; either number(s) or letters. UBAS seemed to like big yellow trimmed black ones!

[Adrianh]

Many thanks Dora-9.
Those pictures are great. WP859 is ringing big bells and may be one of the three I got to fly. In my time I can only remember them being in the older scheme noted which I thought was Grey/ Silver dope overall and Dayglow bars. I cannot recall the coloured bar between the 8AEF logo and the roundel when I last flew powered aircraft with the ATC in September 1971. I then took my A&B certs in the T31 glider at RAF Spitalgate around May 1972 and left the ATC to join the RAF in November 72 and by then had not witnessed the changeover to the red/ White/ Grey scheme.
Many thanks all that have commented and if more pics can be found it will greatly help me get together the aircraft documentation. Just received the drawings today printed on three sheets of A0 paper so can start the build.

Cheers
Adrian

[VQ5X03]

In my 3822 are flights in WP929 (Dec 70) and WP859 (May 71) at 8AEF. Happy days!

[chevvron]

I flew in a Piston Provost before I flew in a Chipmunk; never liked the Chipmunk after that.

[Tiger_mate]

Regarding fleet letters and their purpose in life.

I was aircrew on the SH Force and the registration being painted in small letters on green rendered it virtually invisible at any distance. You soon became familiar with linking fleet letters against individual airframes even though they were normally referred to by the number (only) element of the registration. When walking out to a large flight line in inclement weather, you wanted the journey to your
allocated steed to be as short as possible, and the large fleet letters could be seen at a distance.

Of course this did not stop aircraft that had not been signed for being 'stolen' by crews who had walked to the wrong aircraft! .... as has happened on several occasions.

If anyone has air to ground photographs of Shawbury village from the Chipmunk era, I would very much appreciate seeing them.

[India Four Two]

TM,

This is an MOD picture from the pre-Chipmunk era, but I don't imagine the village had changed much by the 60s!

https://www.raf.mod.uk/rafshawbury/rafcms/mediafiles/233329F7_5056_A318_A83E4E2FD7DB9965.jpg

[Tiger_mate]

Thanks India Four Two. Very much appreciated.
For a number of years now I have had that very photograph in high(er) resolution thanks to SHY Stn Photog. I estimate it to be 1952 and the arrival of new Valetta trainers for the Nav School whilst the WWII era bombers remain on station.
Where it taken by a gun sight; then my specific area of interest would have been just below the cross hairs (right of an Oak tree) and the area that is now a Scout/Guide hut.
Pre 1996 and I am very interested.

[India Four Two]

Tiger_Mate,

I'm intrigued. Why the interest in that particular piece of Shawbury village? I see the Scout Hut is on Oak Drive, presumably named after "your" tree.

I had a look at the area on GE Street View and also further up the road by the airfield. How times have changed. In my day, there was zero security and we used to drive in via the now gated road by the OM.

[roving]

Indeed even in the 1960's I used to stroll in, unchecked, to visit my father there. But then in those days one could stroll down Downing Street with the same ease.

edit

Was there not a Vampire guarding the gate in those days?

[teeteringhead]

The Vampire was there much later than the 60s I think, not least because the Vampires were still flying for CATCS in '69 when I went through Ternhill. IIRC when Dick Skelley was Staish ('84-'87) it was there, at least initially, because he remarked that it was in his log book - and that made him feel old!

Subsequently - I think - there was a Sycamore AND a Whirlwind, but memory (and other stuff :{) is not what it was.

The Wessex now there is in my log book lots...........:{

[roving]

The Vampire was there much later than the 60s I think, not least because the Vampires were still flying for CATCS in '69 :{

Here is a photograph.

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1153346

[Tiger_mate]

Vampire XD382 pole mounted now on its wheels at East Midlands Aeropark.
CFS Skeeter (silver & dayglo) now repainted as an Army machine at North East Air Museum.
2FTS Whirlwind XP351 - now at Gatwick museum. - - - The exact first helicopter I ever flew in at Valley c1974 in SAR colours.
2FTS Wessex XT672 - now at TSW Stafford.
60 Sqn Wessex XR516 (Actually an ex 2FTS repainted, and not the same as the last one)
....have all graced the gate guarding Shawbury.

The 2FTS Wessex (that is privately owned) now 'guards' TSW at MoD Stafford.

I42 - I own an adjacent Grade II listed building that evolved during the 20th Century before and after listing in 1996. Knowledge is power when it comes to negotiating development with the Council Conservation Officer, and photographs are powerful evidence. In fairness, NSDC have been very good thus far, but my building once had attached buildings that I have an interest/curiosity in. (A cobblers shop allegedly)

[FLCH]

WG 417 how could I ever forget those numbers ! My first flight with the ATC, waddling out with a parachute hitting the backs of my legs trying to act all cool.

Fast forward to today, and I still see Shawbury slip by weather permitting if we arrive into LHR from the north, in the left seat of a UAL 767-300. Nowdays I'm just trying to stay awake after crossing the Atlantic...... cool left a long time ago !

[India Four Two]

My first flight with the ATC, waddling out with a parachute hitting the backs of my legs trying to act all cool.

FLCH,

I was in UBAS during the Chipmunk days and I can vividly remember cadets waddling, as you put it, across the pan, almost dwarfed by the parachute, to a waiting AEF Chipmunk. Did they do "running changes"? I can't remember, but I expect so.

When going out to a shutdown Chippie, we carried our parachutes, which was much more civilized or if it was a running-change, we took over the parachute already in the front seat.

[FLCH]

I remember running changes I 24, starting the Chipmunk with a cartridge in the mornings got everyone's attention too.

[4Screwaircrew]

I was a staff cadet at 8 AEF more years ago than I care to remember, running changes of cadets was the norm back then.

[longer ron]

Yes - I was based at UEF (university engineering flight),Abingdon 1980 - 83 and we did running changes as the norm with cadet flying,it was a safe enough procedure with a chippie - its taildragger wing angle/distance of rear cockpit from prop and the prop wash itself virtually assured that nobody would fall fwd towards the prop.
And yes the cartridge start 'bang' used to wake people up :)
Most of our flying was done from our line huts well away from the main station buildings,normally just the first start of the day was on the apron outside 'B' Hangar.

[India Four Two]

Slight thread-drift, but it’s still about 8 AEF.

On a miserable winter’s day in the late 60s, flying had been scrubbed, so the Boss decided to show a film to entertain his Cadet Pilots and APOs. The film was an RCAF film about survival in the bush following a crash-landing. It was very well done and had some very realistic “injuries”.

The Air Cadets who had also had their flying cancelled, were invited in to watch. Prior to starting the projector, the VRT officer in charge of them, warned them that the film was quite realistic and if any of them felt unwell, they should go outside.

The film starts and shows the events leading up to the crash-landing, and then the post-accident triage of the casualties. At one point, there was a close-up of a bloody hole in a chest, with bubbles coming out, accompanied by a voiceover “My god, it’s a sucking wound!”

At this point, there was a moan at the back of the room as the VRT officer fainted, much to the amusement of his cadets, who were lapping up the blood and gore!

[Adrianh]

Hello everyone. Many, many thanks for the posts thus far. Sadly WP859 does appear to be an elusive bird to photograph, as do the others of the era to which I'm particularly interested. I was fortunate to have a pilot from those days post to me some lovely photos of the Chippies which shows some of the markings for which I am very grateful. If anyone does find more pics then please share them.
Cheers
Adrian

[ZeBedie]

Looking back, 25 000 hours and perhaps the closest I ever got to feeling 'cool' was in a Shawbury Chipmunk, leather flying helmet, oxygen mask hanging from it...

[kenparry]

There is a photo on UK Serials - but in the late colour scheme.

UK Serials (http://www.ukserials.com/)

[Adrianh]

Here is another one of WG417. It shows the starboard side and location of the dayglow bands and the 8AEF pale blue and yellow fuselage flash and yellow/ black winged 8. The pics are out there somewhere
Adrian

[Adrianh]

Hi Folks,
My quest continues. I now have a 1/5 scale "Tester" Chippy which is in the final stages of build and finishing and the 1/4 scale one is in build. Here iare a couple of pics of the progress thus far.
Cheers

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/dscn7164_copy__018a60ed5cd5a469873058bf82b674f474794962.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/dscn7154_copy__6190959ed307fe2ecfd656d96972a8a8495b32e3.jpg

[Adrianh]

Here are pics of the finished aircraft at 1/5 scale. Due to the Covid restrictions I have not been able to carry out the maiden. Since the lifting of restrictions the weather has intervened so nothing to do but carry out some engine tests and pre flight preparations. Hopefully a suitable weather window will appear soon.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/dscn9909_copy__29364b56dd2c0200d75f3474e8815bb5628b4279.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/dscn9925_copy__3ba59d0e9353aca074a7fe71e319f89af3f4a90c.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/dscn9934_copy__d43594ad5de76bb579b511ba523a4bedfce2aa44.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/dscn9935_copy__7fe9790614c09d1cca5fc7d27f7fc11d4d2c6728.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/dscn9943_copy__9c9049ff1baaf6f179ffafa4dbcc8083ef94578b.jpg

[India Four Two]

Lovely! :ok:

[megan]

Sadly WP859 does appear to be an elusive bird to photograph Aircraft registered as G-BXCP, owner,

MICHAEL PATRICK O'CONNOR
15 LAVERNOCK CLOSE
REDCAR
TS10 2PX

De-registered 18-Apr-2017


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/815x532/wp859_3089ab91f0bac261b77b54677d0ec4335896adc5.jpg

[Discorde]

. . . You soon became familiar with linking fleet letters against individual airframes even though they were normally referred to by the number (only) element of the registration. When walking out to a large flight line in inclement weather, you wanted the journey to your allocated steed to be as short as possible, and the large fleet letters could be seen at a distance.

The Leeds UAS Chippies based at Church Fenton had coloured spinners so identification head on from a distance was easy. The CO's (S/L Robbie Chambers) favourite mount (WG316) had a blue spinner (matching his bonedome). WG478 had a white spinner. Can't remember the others.

[Haraka]

I suggested coloured spinners for the ULAS Chipmunks in the early 1970's.
."All too difficult administratively" I was informed .;

[Martin the Martian]

For the interested, Airfix have announced a 1/48 Chipmunk in their 2021 line up. Due out in the spring with some gorgeous box art and decals for RAF, RN and the AAC Spitmunk.

[N707ZS]

Aircraft registered as G-BXCP, owner,

MICHAEL PATRICK O'CONNOR
15 LAVERNOCK CLOSE
REDCAR
TS10 2PX

De-registered 18-Apr-2017


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/815x532/wp859_3089ab91f0bac261b77b54677d0ec4335896adc5.jpg

It got wrecked at Bagby with remains last seen at Fishburn unfortunately.

[WB627]

For the interested, Airfix have announced a 1/48 Chipmunk in their 2021 line up. Due out in the spring with some gorgeous box art and decals for RAF, RN and the AAC Spitmunk.

Better late than never

[Dora-9]

WG478 had a white spinner. Can't remember the others.

That's very interesting Discorde. It must have been for a short(ish) period though; I have a 1966 photo showing WG478 at Leeds UAS with a black spinner with another showing a 1968 line-up of Leeds UAS Chipmunks and here they all appear to have white spinners!

I have a vested interest here as I'm the proud owner of WG478 (VH-MMS).

[treadigraph]

For the interested, Airfix have announced a 1/48 Chipmunk in their 2021 line up. Due out in the spring with some gorgeous box art and decals for RAF, RN and the AAC Spitmunk.

That's good news - I've got a 1/48 vac form Chippy in the loft - bit beyond my skill level - or do I mean patience level?

[john_tullamarine]

I have a vested interest here as I'm the proud owner of WG478 (VH-MMS).

There's just no getting away from the AN Dogwhistles ... your professional lineage is showing ....

[Discorde]

Hi Dora-9. Lucky you - owning '478. I did many early lessons in it in 1967. Here are 4 pix - I took the line-up pic myself (late '68) but the others come from other sources ('309 & '316 dated 04/11/67 and '478 dated 03/06/68). Impossible to determine spinner colours from monochrome images, of course.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x840/cf_chippies_v3_7d30ec40362a3fb4eb4328f6ca26bfe4a58dd2f2.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x660/wg309_04_11_67_f221b6a3c4f865dfaadc99c535243fb1211600cb.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x656/wg316_04_11_67_8e272c0d38f7ee178a93d0e3e017142dfdc0ea5a.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x789/wg478_03_06_68_d19ca66f764c75b7ba5bd1e5d8a53691879e513b.jpg

[Dora-9]

Discorde, you're a star!

That's the line-up photo I was referring to - if the spinner colours aren't all white, then they're all seemingly very pale colours.

And thank you for that lovely colour photo of WG478 which I'd never seen before. As an aside, WG478 managed to wear (unlike most Chipmunks) every RAF colour scheme; overall silver, then overall Light Aircraft Grey and lastly both variations of the Red/White/Light Aircraft Grey scheme.

[ex82watcher]

Is that black dome behind the tail of WG478 one of the wartime gunnery trainers,such as the restored one at the former RAF Langham in Norfolk ? There's also one at Shoreham,which when I last saw it was painted in a garish pseudo camouflage scheme.

[ex82watcher]

Hi Adrian,this a bit late,and may be superfluous now that you have completed your model,but your original post asked for details of 8AEF a/c up to 1972.so,for what it's worth,I have just dug out my old ATC 3822,and I see that I flew from Shawbury on 23/9/72 in WP929 (10 minutes) and on 29/12/72 ln WK629 (27 minutes).

[Bcalboy80]

I’ve just purchased the Airfix 1/48 Chippy, and as a regular visitor to Shawbury with 156 Sqdn ATC 1969/71, was delighted to find markings for WG 417 were available, it appeared in my 3822 a few times.
However is it the passage of time and the old brain fogging in, but I cannot recall any 8AEF Chipmunks with blue/yellow squadron bars on the fuselage..?

[Dora-9]

Based on photos, at least three 8 AEF Chipmunks carried this scheme; WG417/X, WD365/Y and WP949/Z. Maybe the unit only had three aircraft?