The Swedes

[tartare]

They design and build their own jets - and would appear to have a pretty healthy domestic arms industry.
What is the view (within the primarily British) fast jet community that frequents this forum of their aircraft, training etc.
I ask purely out of curiosity.
They are (ostensibly) neutral/non-aligned (although the reality may be different) but did/does the RAF train, exchange or have contact with Swedish fast jet mates?
The Viggen/Drakken seem like interesting aircraft - they take off from roads etc. and I think they were researching G-LOC auto flyup technology before many other air-forces.
Would be interested to hear expert opinions...

[aw ditor]

I prefer Turnips, preferably mashed'.

[oxenos]

Clearly you are not Cornish
the Cornish are unusual in referring to swede as turnip, even though they differ markedly.
the infamous bureaucrats of Brussels...ruling that a swede can be called a turnip when it’s in a Cornish pasty.
Quoted from the Telegraph, so it must be true.
About the only sensible decision to come out of Brussels in 50 years.

[Take That]

Exchange programmes, none that I am aware of. Exercises? Yes, Arctic Challenge 17 being a recent example.

[Fonsini]

Purely second-hand but I recall reading a report from a Jaguar pilot on exchange with them. On an orientation flight in a Viggen he was flown down a snow covered logging trail in AB below tree top height - said he had never experienced anything quite like it. When he took a different Swedish pilot up in his 2 seat Jag he established at 200' AGL, engaged min AB and passed control to the Swede who promptly pushed the nose down and repeated the same performance in the Jag.

The RAF pilot stated that the Swedes were some of the most capable FJ pilots he had ever seen.

That was from Air International I believe from many many years ago, but it has always stuck in my mind.

[tartare]

Thank you Fonsini.
I've always wondered because in past journo life I wanted to shoot a story at Linkoping on low-level flying when they started the research into G-LOC automated fly-up systems.
Fascinating to read the history of proposals to develop a free-fall nuclear capability from ground attack aircraft in the late 50s too.
We seem to hear very little in English media about the Swedish Air-Force yet they fly in very challenging terrain and seem to have some interesting SOPs.
Interested to hear any other stories.

[Rhino power]

The Swedish AF deployed 4 JAS-39C and 2 JAS-39D to Coningsby in June 2014, these were from the Swedish AFs equivalent to 41(R) TES and they worked with 41(R) during the deployment.

-RP

[Brian 48nav]

My No 1 son, a Jag Mate, was one of 2 ( the first? ) RAF pilots checked out and qualified on the Gripen c2005. They were both tutors on ETPS.
I believe QinetiQ bought time on the Gripen for ETPS students as there were no Typhoons to spare.

[George K Lee]

Epic threadjacking. By the way, in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan (eh?), pasties are a regional specialty, and iron mining was the original foundation of the economy. Elsewhere in this great nation, pasties are something entirely different, and are associated with allowing entertainment establishments to comply with local laws on indecent exposure.

How the Swedes do what they do is a different story. It has much to do with national culture (Sweden is small, communitarian but not egalitarian, so everyone who matters knows everyone else who matters). They're very good at not biting off more than they can chew - they don't try to build their own engines or AAMs and take a disciplined make-or-buy approach to radars and other subsystems.

Not to mention that one of the important elements of the system was created after a major defense program failure. In 1628.

[Herod]

Ah yes. Keep your centre of gravity as low as possible, and don't put all the heavy cannon on top. Did nobody learn from the Mary Rose?

[Haraka]

A detachment of 4sqn Harriers went up to Sweden in 1978. Recce cameras had to be disabled ( ports blanked over IIRC). As a dispensation, clearance down to 100 ft (30m) was allowed over the sea for dissimilar air combat.
The Viggens were turning below them.

[George K Lee]

"On an orientation flight in a Viggen he was flown down a snow covered logging trail in AB below tree top height"

Was it still snow-covered after the event?

[tartare]

Food and fast jets. :)
Watch out for those extra tall pine trees (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWrsP3hq5M8&t=9s).
George - I thought they did build (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_Aero) their own engines?
Along with the Mirage 4 the Draken (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JIBy29k1cA) has to be one of the most beautiful looking jets designed.

[George K Lee]

Sorry. Yes, they do build engines. But either other people's designs, or modifications thereof. And the JAS 39E/F has a US-made F414.

[George Richardson]

Leeming hosted 13 Gripens and 2 Blackhawks of the Swedish Air Force in October 2016. This was for Ex. Joint Warrior. Lots of flying!

[PersonFromPorlock]

It may amuse British members to know that here in the US, vegetable 'swedes' are known as 'rutabagas'. No idea why.

I was always impressed by the non-veg Swedes having produced 661 J-29s (by all accounts, as good as anything in the world at the time); that's a lot of fighters for a small country, and shows real seriousness.

[pax britanica]

Not very forthcoming with answers other than vegetable nomenclature which is a shame as I lived in Sweden for nearly three years and was very interested in their Air force (Flygvapnet} as our company office was close to the now disused base at Barkaby NW of Stockholm.

In my time there occasional two or four ship deployments took place and if you had any advance notice (which i did as a work colleague was a SF reservist and knew I like planes, it was neat to see them pull off the very very short landing and vanish into the trees where solid rock hardened shelters were concealed. One time-I think the Gorbachov crisis in Russia saw a whole squadron deploy there .

Saw a couple of excellent airshows again featuring the SAAB fighters ground tricks, short take off roll short landing and reversing capability: icey runways and psudo runways (lots of pieces of straight road in Sweden are designated emergency runways with full markings and the trees cut back 50m or so from the road with odd little turn offs seemingly going no where. Also saw them on occasional flypasts over Stockholm, National Days, Swedes winning world ice Hockey championship, etc.

But they are pretty secretive lot although very clever engineers designers and innovators and achieve a lot considering there is only about 10m of them and back then, early 90s were a lot more secretive as they were firmly neutral although there was never much doubt in their minds that if a push came to a shove they would side with NATO. after the cold war was declared over it came out that most of their air bases were Nato compatible when it came to aspects of layout, refueling arrangements etc.

[tartare]

...actually the J-29 looks kind of like a turnip.
Hadn't realised they made their own ejection seats too.
Gripen the first to use non-Saab seats I think.
Incredible for a nation of 9 million.

[Wander00]

53 years ago, having been at the opening of the Forth Road Bridge in one of HM's grey war canoes (as part of my Towers course) we went on a RN courtesy visit to Stockholm. I shall draw a discreet veil over most of the social shenanigans (as the lovely Iain A-R used to say wistfully "They didn't dance like that in Pinner"), but for us Crandits guys, about 25 of us I guess, the Swedes laid on a visit to their Air Force Academy at Upsalla, which included a fairly long and very impressive flying display. Must have been good, still a very clear memory

[gr4techie]

Interestingly the Swedish were effective businessmen without morals during WW2. Overtly selling iron ore to both sides at the same time. To the point where there were Axis naval blockades and Allied plans for an invasion of Swedish iron ore mines that was supplying the German war effort.
I think both sides used Bofors anti-aircraft guns too?

[Herod]

What was Sweden to do? Fight the German army? They were very much on the Allied side. When the Germans invaded Norway they asked for the ability to pass through Sweden, and to use Swedish telephone lines. Of course the Swedes agreed, and I believe an enormous amount of signals traffic found its way to Bletchley Park.

[tartare]

They certainly were very much on the Allied side.
Blockade running flights in the bomb bay (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=swedish+mosquito+bomb+bay&rlz=1C1GGRV_enAU751AU751&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwikgZX7vf3VAhUELpQKHfcaAGYQsAQIJw&biw=1366&bih=662#imgrc=nrnVBDJuCptySM:) of a Mossie.
A prominent passengers being one Niels Bohr.
From another forum:

Bomb bay lined with felt, fitted with reading lamp, air controls, oxygen supply, intercom, flask of coffee (doubtless a wartime luxury), reading material. No mention of sandwiches !
Outward trip took air mail, UK newspapers and magazines (to counter German ones).
Leuchars-Stockholm 800 miles, took typically 3 hours.
Originally daylight flights, switched to night after attacks.
Conductor Sir Malcolm Sargent was once a passenger, so were other VIPs.
Last operation 30 November 1944.

[gr4techie]

Herod, I am in agreement. I understand after their huge losses at Verdun, the Vichy French had a similar mindset... negotiate a favourable armistice rather than have another massacre. If the Gaullists in exile were the sword the Vichy at home were the shield ?

[MPN11]

The SwAF Historic Flight are regulars at the Jersey International Air Display.

This year we appear to have:
Swedish Air Force Historic Flight:
Saab J29 Tunnan
Saab J32 Lansen [British Debut]
Saab SK35 Draken
Saab J35 Draken
Saab J37 Viggen

Jersey International Air Display - Rumours and News (http://www.jerseyairdisplay.org.uk/news/)

[pax britanica]

Not sure the Norwegians agree on the Swedish role in WW2 - still not a subject to bring up in either country but for small countries there wasnt much choice. Denmark being a good example and the Czechs another. Watch the Brits give a third of your country away to Adolph including most of the fortifications and you dont have a lot of choice.

I think Swedish iron ore ended up on both sides too

[Herod]

My late father-in-law was in the Swedish Army during the war, and was posted near the Norwegian border. A lot of people that the Germans would have liked to have "talked to" were helped across that border, and there was a certain amount of "unofficial" shooting taking place. BTW, the Norwegians weren't beaten; they were betrayed.