Anna's Friday Absurdity

[mngmt mole]

Honestly, you cannot make this rubbish up. Her comment, "...it would have been only a tiny loss..." could have only been uttered by someone who is both a Swire sycophant and completely devoid of reality. Apparently, in Anna World, $2 BILLION loss on a single item is 'tiny'. I suppose when compared to their bonuses.... Seriously, is this what passes for intellectual debate in this circus of a company today? Anna, let me clarity this for you: if we didn't have to suffer,

a) Fuel Hedging Loss of 3.2 Billion (with a B)
b) Cash Hedge Loss of 4.0 Billion (with a B)
c) Cargo Cartel Fine of 0.5 Billion (with a B)

....we would have had a first half profit of close to $2 Billion ! Every SINGLE ONE OF THESE debacles have been due to YOUR management incompetence, arrogance and willful blindness as to what makes modern day airline management. Please, stop with the vacuous rhetoric which not a single person in this airline buys into anymore. We ALL realise that the real problem in this company is the incestuous and incompetent Swire management. If you people had simply done NOTHING we would be healthy and profitable. The fact is that ALL of our problems are due to you and your ilk. The employees are not and will not be held responsible for your failings. We have kept this airline operationally profitable and healthy and safe. You however represent a cancer that is eating this company from the inside out. We will all expect our full 13th month. Many of us are ready to pull the plug, and the resignation and retirement of the operational staff is just getting started. Just go away. :ugh: (and I might add that nearly every other airline in the world is enjoying healthy profits, increasing pay and benefits for their staff and NOT subjecting their employees to Alice in Wonderland nutcase newsletters)

[Zapp_Brannigan]

Now, now...

We don't blame pilots when they do a hard landing, do we?

[theCOMEDIAN]

Go into her office and tell it to her face and stop being a keyboard warrior

[Trafalgar]

Oooh, Comedian, aren't you being the brave one. ps, I think he has effectively 'told her to her face'.

[OK4Wire]

On top of all the "grocer's apostrophes" in the sandwich, I can't wait to be sharing the "learnings" from Anna.



Not one redeeming feature, not one.

[Average Fool]

Did anyone expect any sort of honesty or integrity?

Come on, these are words for leaders, not ..........

[Trafalgar]

So, Comedian is an opinionated wannabe. At least we've cleared that up and can ignore him until he outgrows his short pants. Mngmt Mole distilled the problem down to it's factual basis. The company is being driven into the ground by an inept and arrogant cabal of incestuous muppets. The question is: will the management leave because they were fired, or will they leave because the company failed and there are no jobs left for anyone. Which will happen first. :rolleyes:

[betpump5]

Comedian? More like a fkin clown.

[cxorcist]

Sorry guys, I've been out of the mix for a while. What's this cash hedge loss? $4B! Are they gambling on foreign currencies now too?

[BlunderBus]

Owners will progressively move ops to dragon. Hence the name 'cathay' dragon to retain the legacy. Cathay assets ..what few there are..to be sold off..starting with sims. 777 fleet, which is mostly leased, reduced to zero.. some crews transferred to airbus.. redundancy and early retirement offered to the rest. Hotel retained. Dragon will pick up juiciest international destinations with 350's.. Mainline wound up right about the time the fuel hedge expires.
End of story.

[Trafalgar]

Early retirement. Where do I sign. This place is toxic to a depth few airlines could plumb....

[a370]

Thought this was a rumour page... instead it's Trafalgar and danbusters online diary full of their dribble of how unhappy they are And how unjust it all is.

Cowards behind a screen bitching and degrading others whilst not brave enough to do anything about it.

I gotta laugh, this is so true. And Traf kept shooting himself in the foot. Metaphorically, regrettably.

"inept and arrogant cabal of incestuous muppets" , The CX trainers who perpetuate their own self interest ? Yep we know you guys. Such hard workers n so undervalued. LOL. ,

[pfvspnf]

There wasn't too much fuel price movements , how is the book loss so high ?!

[BlunderBus]

[QUOTE=ADFUS;9867216]Mmmm yes blunderbus, keep going. You should start writing erotic fan fiction.

And there's a lovely hole in the sand waiting for your head. Look at all the great airlines that could never fail even without political pressure from China...all gone and forgotten including ansett...who would ever have thought it would go? 15,000 souls on the street with no pensions ..all to satisfy the greed of two men. And delivered into destruction by one of our ex CEO 's. Some non descript Chinese company buys 5.5% of our stock in a day? Some SEC rules being sidestepped? Speculation? Sure.... but when did anyone here tell the truth or keep their promises? I'll put 1000$ US into an envelope and bet you're about to suffer a life changing event that could very well see your departure. Care to take the bet?

[azhkman]

There wasn't too much fuel price movements , how is the book loss so high ?!

It's like this. They agreed to buy the oil already at a fixed price of $150 / barrel a few years ago. What's crazy is the supplier could be buying on the street price now of $50-60 / barrel and selling it to CX at $150 / barrel to fulfil their side of the deliverables!!! Someone is getting filthy rich on this.

Regarding the currency hedge, I vaguely recall someone made a bad play on the Australian dollar about 10 years ago, but it was the daughter of a board member. I don't remember if it was directly impacted on Cathay Pacific or not.

[cxorcist]

Anything is possible when it comes to airlines and the stupidity of those who manage them. History is littered with examples. However, it would take phenomenally bad management to put the last nail in CX's coffin. The business model exists in a robust marketplace. I'm not saying it can't happen, especially because our CX "leadership" has shown such extremely poor judgement over the last few years. That said, the notion that Dragon will take over whilst offering zero cost advantage and little growth potential is just silly. If anything, the market dominance that CX had even five years ago has dissipated and now looks quite vulnerable to competitors, even those whom traditionally could not dream of challenging CX meaningfully.

[Trafalgar]

At best, CX ends up as marginal pimple-arsed airline on the edge of China, pretending they are still a 'contender' in the big fight. The fatal mistake was made in the past 10 years. Once they saw off Oasis, and gobbled up Air Hong Kong, they sat around congratulating themselves and popping champagne corks. Convinced of their superiority, they didn't see the growing threat of HK Airlines, who have now grown to a size that is a direct threat to CX's business model. The other side of that coin is that the slots that HKA occupy are gone forever and have effectively corralled CX into a position that they can't grow themselves out of the mess they are in because the airport is now effectively at max capacity. Meanwhile, the mainland Chinese carriers are doubling every five years. CX is f......... Well done Swire/CX management. Here's to your bonuses :ugh:

[Shep69]

At best, CX ends up as marginal pimple-arsed airline on the edge of China, pretending they are still a 'contender' in the big fight. The fatal mistake was made in the past 10 years. Once they saw off Oasis, and gobbled up Air Hong Kong, they sat around congratulating themselves and popping champagne corks. Convinced of their superiority, they didn't see the growing threat of HK Airlines, who have now grown to a size that is a direct threat to CX's business model. The other side of that coin is that the slots that HKA occupy are gone forever and have effectively corralled CX into a position that they can't grow themselves out of the mess they are in because the airport is now effectively at max capacity. Meanwhile, the mainland Chinese carriers are doubling every five years. CX is f......... Well done Swire/CX management. Here's to your bonuses :ugh:

Agreed. And it's been a major cock-up. But there MIGHT be a way out (I don't know how feasible it is and it would take some major finagling). Most of the woes are for high end slots pi$$ed away and HKG at capacity--which might get somewhat better but won't get all that much better (and everything goes through HKG).

Contraction IMHO will be death; unless the plan is pump and dump--in which case it's still death (furthermore, I don't know where they might find a suitable suitor--then again I have no idea what we actually own or where the money really is; it COULD be as simple as selling a beer label and collecting the cash depending on the real asset distributions if it turns out there really isn't anything owned free and clear). You can't shrink your way into prosperity when (if true) the reports look like they do. So it's grow, fold, or sell (assuming there's no HKG version akin to Chapter 11 or a big daddy warbucks with a big bankrolll he doesn't mind blowing).

ONE option--and I don't have any idea how feasible it might be--is to cut the bases loose and man the shiite out of them. Establish them as independent organizations contracting to the parent (not unlike Compass, Envoy, or Republic contracting to American--with jets painted in an American like getup--but using the actual CX jets). The structure is kinda there already with the 'on shoring' process but kinda isn't as a real bona-fide organic (to the country) entity so there'd be some legal hoops to jump through and agreements with the parent corporation (but given how China loves shell corporations this shouldn't be beyond their capabilities). Offer DIRECT flights from these entities (bases) to other places which make real money which DON'T involve going through HKG--using current based crews and jets and rotating them back to home plate in time after they serve other direct destinations (bypassing HKG altogether). The independent organizations on the bases acquire the additional routing slots using CX jets but as organic separate corporations within the host nation (with some form of contract which allows this) and based crews (on an independent contract at the basing location which allows for scheduling by the parent corporation).

[Oval3Holer]

Sorta like Norwegian

[Freehills]

Re: HK Airlines & HK Express - that would seem to be an argument in CX favour (vs the pilots) They have grown fast, offering much lower packages to crew.

Shep69 - interesting idea. This is the Jetstar/ Air Asia model, having separate companies in different countries, but all co-ordinated. So it definitely is legally feasible. Each entity would be a separate AOC, with aircraft leased from CX

[Shep69]

Re: HK Airlines & HK Express - that would seem to be an argument in CX favour (vs the pilots) They have grown fast, offering much lower packages to crew.

Shep69 - interesting idea. This is the Jetstar/ Air Asia model, having separate companies in different countries, but all co-ordinated. So it definitely is legally feasible. Each entity would be a separate AOC, with aircraft leased from CX

Yeah....and if you wanted to get really cosmic and keep the jets full (as well as acquire routes or concrete available at airports that aren't saturated) you might be able to combine it with a southwest type model. Fr' instance, a jet might operate Dallas-Osaka-Singapore-Bangkok-HKG-Vancouver. If a pax wanted to go from Dallas to HKG he could change in RJBB to an existing CX route RJBB-VHHH rather than get a competitors flight to ORD or JFK (and then continue on CX to HKG) and the trip might be of similar time. Or if he wanted to go to to Singapore he could stay on the jet and go there. It'd take a pretty active scheduling system, but computers are cheap if you let the experts design them well. It might have the opportunity to have crews and jets not sitting around waiting for something to happen as well.

The only caveat is the whole thing would take a group of folks who really know what they are doing to plan it out and would be willing to delegate important tasks to experts who also knew what they were doing.

[cxorcist]

You are kidding me!!! CX can't even run a decent hub and spoke system from HKG. They haven't even ventured to bridge the network across the Atlantic, except on freighters during the French Beaujolais shipment season. The notion that they could pull off something complex like Norwegian does is beyond laughable.

[Sam Ting Wong]

I don't understand you guys ( as usual)

Let's assume for a moment everything you say about management is true.

Let's assume we have the worst possible management in the industry.

Let's assume we have the worst management if any airline in the history of civil aviation.

Let's assume the people in charge at Cathay ( and Swire and Air China ) are all complete idiots and morons, just a bunch of retarded over-paid insane lunatics.

Now what?

What is the point?

The only thing we can influence is our part in the contract negotiations. The only thing.

And boy, did we screw that up.

[Arfur Dent]

You don't have to assume all those Management failings. They demonstrate their own failings on a weekly basis to such an extent that one must assume the Airline is not being run for long term profit. Contract negotiations are of no interest to Cathay Management. Have you not noticed STW? Back to Quizzling duties.

[betpump5]

You worry me Sam.

No one agrees with your "we should have accepted the TA" nonsense.

So you then write the same cowpat under the names Cowardlypilot and thecomedian.

You seem to like questions so here is one for you. Why have I still not seen your name under the HKAOA resignations list that you threatened to do a couple of months back?

[BlunderBus]

Dudes...operating crews in individual base areas for REAL onshore companies? Are you crazy? Why do you think they're being sued in every current jurisdiction? They blatantly screw employees by hiding behind the fact they're a HK company!! Case in point cancelling social security and retirement medicare in the USA for cabin crew AFTER the crews threw 10% of their salary at it..non recoverable of course. Good luck getting an AOC in australia after the jetstar debacle in HK or anywhere else for that matter..then rights to operate?..HA. All they ever had to do was leave all crew employed in HK(minus housing and expat benefits) and roster in and out of base ports like every other airline with a brain. Even Air New Guinea figured that out! These guys have no clue..no imagination..no fresh ideas or know how to compete...they've just been lucky enough to operate in a sheltered low tax environment with no rules about screwing staff. They will not survive any well funded competition and they know it...Dragon will be the recipient of the funding( cx freighters too..just look who the CMP program is going to) and CX will be gutted and just evaporate. How hard is it to pack a bag...leave your rented flat, drop off the rental car and exit the country...we don't really own that much anymore...it could be wound up over a weekend. Dragon gets 350's and our international money making slots...and this smoking hulk of a burned out top heavy slug sinks gently in the mud of the nullah along with all it's unsolved problems.

[Trafalgar]

...and honestly, at that point good riddance to it. This airline turned against it's loyal staff 25 years ago, and the relentless rush to the bottom is just about done. Time to turn out the lights.