State Police Helo Crash Charlottesville Virginia

[Airbubba]

Reports of a Virginia State Police helo down in the woods near Charlottesville, Virginia. Two POB and aircraft in flames according to one report.

Dean Seal‏ @JDeanSeal
31 minutes ago

BREAKING: On scene here, I'm being told a state police helicopter has crashed in the woods near Old Farm Road.

https://twitter.com/JDeanSeal/status/896479411687608320

[Carbon Bootprint]

Sorry to hear about this. I know things got ugly in Charlottesville, and hopefully it's coincidental to the violence that occurred. Best wishes for the crew.

Purported video of crash here (http://heavy.com/news/2017/08/vsp-helicopter-crashes-charlottesville-virginia-riots-protests-university-of-virginia-youtube-video-pictures/). Doesn't show much, though; perhaps the smoke is from the bird that went down and the one that's visible is a news chopper or something...

[Airbubba]

Sadly, two more fatalities in the Charlottesville area today:

FAA: Two killed after State Police helicopter crashes in Charlottesville | WSET (http://wset.com/news/local/report-helicopter-crashes-near-golf-course-in-charlottesville)

[AmericanFlyer]

2 dead in helicopter crash near Charlottesville, Virginia - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-helicopter-crash-charlottesville-virginia/story?id=49182205)

[Airbubba]

Looks like the aircraft was probably N31VA, a Bell 407 using the callsign 'Trooper One'.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N31VA

Helo Fairfax One reports the crash to Charlottesville tower at about 19:35 in this clip:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kcho/KCHO-Gnd-Twr-App-Aug-12-2017-2030Z.mp3

[Flying Binghi]

Sorry to hear about this. I know things got ugly in Charlottesville, and hopefully it's coincidental to the violence that occurred...



Apparently the chopper went down ten minutes after the protest car asault incident. There were a drone operating over the protest at the time:
https://mobile.twitter.com/NBCNews/status/896554287395942402/video/1





.

[henra]

Purported video of crash here (http://heavy.com/news/2017/08/vsp-helicopter-crashes-charlottesville-virginia-riots-protests-university-of-virginia-youtube-video-pictures/). Doesn't show much, though; perhaps the smoke is from the bird that went down and the one that's visible is a news chopper or something...


Shows at least that the weather and visibility were perfect and that the fire evolved quickly. Given the normally pretty good crash resistance of fuel tanks of the Jetranger Family it probably must have been a violent impact.
No powerlines visible in the video that could explain this combination either.
Not the typical pattern of fatal turbine helicopter accident.

[13snoopy]

Jay was the finest helicopter pilot I've ever known. There is unsubstantiated rumors out there that a drone was in the area.

[Bell_ringer]

The news report seems to indicate the machine went down 7 miles from the protests, in which case a drone would have little to do with it.

[13snoopy]

Those news reports are false. Old Farm Rd (crash site) is very near protest areas. Maybe one to two miles, max.

[cobraPA]

Looks like the aircraft was probably N31VA, a Bell 407 using the callsign 'Trooper One'.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N31VA

Helo Fairfax One reports the crash to Charlottesville tower at about 19:35 in this clip:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kcho/KCHO-Gnd-Twr-App-Aug-12-2017-2030Z.mp3

Looks like Fairfax 1 is county police. Sounds like they may have set down to assist, but not much other info. They have a posting here:

https://fcpdnews.wordpress.com/2017/08/12/our-sincerest-condolences-to-the-virginia-state-police/

[Airbubba]

Looks like Fairfax 1 is county police. Sounds like they may have set down to assist, but not much other info.

Also sounds like another VSP helo callsign 'Trooper Two' may have landed as well.

The crew from Trooper Two may be the VSP pilots in this picture:

http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/charlottesville-helicopter-crash-scene-jef-ap-18012_12x5_992.jpg

[Thomas coupling]

Sorry to hear that guys. Our thoughts are with you.

[KiwiNedNZ]

Fairfax 1 is Fairfax County Police who operate Bell 429s. Did a shoot with them a couple of times.

Jay Cullen was a great individual to work with, met him on numerous occasions and was a true professional. :sad:

Thoughts are with all the VA State Troopers and the families :sad::sad:

[SASless]

These events are always sad....no matter where they occur or who is lost in them or how it happened.

I am participating in a "Stand True 4 Blue" event today in my home town....during a State Gang Investigators Convention....along with several of my friends and neighbors.

The Police have a very tough job these days and we want them to know the People stand with them....and not against them.

We will have the families, friends, and fellow Officers of the Two Virginia State Troopers in our Thoughts and Prayers.

Take a wander over to the organization's web site....and view the Photo's.

[albatross]

A sad loss for whatever reason. Sympathies to the families and co-workers.

[John R81]

Heliweb has an article (http://www.heliweb.com/virginia-state-police-helicopter-crash/) suggesting separation of the tail before impact with the ground. Part of the article reads:


"At 4:50 PM witnesses reported seeing the helicopter spiral out of control, with one witness stating that he heard the aircraft having trouble and looked up to witness the helicopter spinning out of control before going inverted and disappearing from view behind trees. Images from the scene showed the Bell 407 helicopters tail wedged into a tree almost upside down, potentially supporting eyewitness accounts of the moments before the crash. The tail was found without fire damage, separated from the body of the helicopter, which impacted the ground a short distance away, bursting into flames."

[[email protected]]

So we have to wonder what caused the tail to be chopped off? Bladestrike or wirestrike seem the only 2 likely causes.

The picture shows the tailboom neatly severed and at least one half of the TR intact.

[Bell_ringer]

Could a driveshaft failure not cause the tail to depart and explain the spin?
It would take some effort to cut the tail off, it's not a Robbie..

[[email protected]]

I'm not sure the loss of TR drive would do that, the shaft would have to flail in order to trash the boom.

Very difficult to say with the limited information available but a very sad day for the state police.

[Lonewolf_50]

Wait a sec, Fairfax County, the county where I went to high school for a couple of years, is about 2 hours by road north of Charlottesville. (With traffic these days, a bit more?) About 100 miles as the crow flies, give or take a bit, and a bit more down route 29.

I am not sure why Fairfax County cops are operating out of their jurisdiction? (Was the helo on loan to the Virginia State law enforcement effort? I imagine there are a variety of inter departmental agency MOUs on stuff like that).

In any case, very sorry to see these folks lost while doing their duty. :(

[The Sultan]

Fairfax is a highly trained unit called on for many duties in support of local, state, and national duties.

[Lonewolf_50]

Fairfax is a highly trained unit called on for many duties in support of local, state, and national duties. I hope they get state and federal funding, then, as otherwise the taxpayers of Fairfax County (to include my parents) are footing that whole bill. :p (Granted, it is not an impoverished county by any means ....)

[Self loading bear]

I hope they get state and federal funding, then, as otherwise the taxpayers of Fairfax County (to include my parents) are footing that whole bill. :p (Granted, it is not an impoverished county by any means ....)

Fairfax police stated their helicopter just returned from ferrying in the govenor McAuliffe from the northern part of Virginia to Charlostville.

Cheers SLB

[Airbubba]

An update from the NTSB:

NTSB Update on Investigation Into Crash of Virginia State Police Helicopter

8/14/2017

​WASHINGTON (Aug. 14, 2017) — The NTSB released an update Monday into its ongoing investigation of the crash of a Virginia State Police helicopter that occured on Aug. 12, 2017, in Charlottesville, Virginia.

The purpose of the accident flight was to provide a continuous video feed of activities on the ground, which was accomplished with multiple helicopters.
The accident helicopter (N31VA), was a Bell 407, manufactured in 2000. It departed Charlottesville airport at 3:54 pm ET and was over the downtown area at 4:04 pm and engaged in mission-related activities there until 4:42, at which time it departed the area to provide support for a motorcade carrying Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe.

The last observed radar coverage indicates that the accident helicopter was traveling north/northeast at about 30 knots (34 mph) at an altitude of 2,300 feet. The first 911 call reporting the crash was received at 4:44 pm. The crash site is about 7 miles southwest of the Charlottesville airport.

The helicopter’s vertical flight path was about 45 degrees when it descended into trees. The main wreckage came to rest about 100 yards from where the aft portion of the tail boom became lodged in a tree.

There was a post-crash fire.

The was no distress call from the accident helicopter.

The NTSB and the Virginia State Police are interviewing witnesses who reported seeing the helicopter in flight shortly before the crash.

The helicopter was not equipped with a flight data recorder or a cockpit voice recorder, nor was it required to be.

Investigators are working with local authorities today to recover the helicopter wreckage to a secure location where additional examination and documentation can be conducted.

The NTSB has been working closely with the Virginia State Police and appreciates it efforts to support the NTSB investigation.
A preliminary report detailing the facts and circumstances of the crash that have been developed in this early stage of the investigation will be available on the NTSB website within 2-3 weeks.

The entire investigation is expected to last 12-18 months.

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/PR20170814.aspx

[recceguy]

So I suggest we ground all the Bell 407 hellos, as some Air Forces just did with their Tiger combat helicopters after a fatal crash in Africa ....

Or maybe it has been shot down ? .... ?

[SASless]

30 Knots @ 2300 Feet (probably MSL) and not all that high off the ground in reality as Charlottesville is near some high ground with some mountain ridges in the vicinity.

I suppose we shall see that situation play a significant role in whatever happened.

[[email protected]]

The crash site was reported to be on Old Farm Road which appears to be just on the North Western side of Charlottesville and about 7 miles on the extended centreline of Rw 21/03 at the airport.

The elevation from google earth seems to be about 200m.

[SASless]

And the 30 kts Ground Speed?

[Bell_ringer]

And the 30 kts Ground Speed?

If your tail departs what difference does altitude or ground speed make?

[SASless]

Depends why the Tail departed doesn't it!

[LRP]

Depends why the Tail departed doesn't it!

From the photo that I have seen, the tailboom looks severed about where the M/R would make contact.
I guess we'll know for sure when the NTSB releases the report a couple of years from now.

[Lonewolf_50]

Fairfax police stated their helicopter just returned from ferrying in the govenor McAuliffe from the northern part of Virginia to Charlostville. Thank you sir, makes perfect sense!

[13snoopy]

People who know say the VSP mechanic who serviced the accident Helo claims crash was caused by catastrophic main rotor (assembly) failure. Hence, the chopped tail boom. Just what we are being told...

[henra]

30 Knots @ 2300 Feet (probably MSL) and not all that high off the ground in reality as Charlottesville is near some high ground with some mountain ridges in the vicinity.

Hmmm, dunno. 7 Miles SW of the Airport the elevation is 600 - 700 Feet max.


I suppose we shall see that situation play a significant role in whatever happened.
I can't exactly see how 700 feet high hills should bring down a helicopter from 2300 Feet?!

[henra]

People who know say the VSP mechanic who serviced the accident Helo claims crash was caused by catastrophic main rotor (assembly) failure. Hence, the chopped tail boom. Just what we are being told...

Sounds at least not inconsistent at all to the bits of information we have so far.

[SASless]

NTSB Preliminary Report released.

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20170813X82426&AKey=1&RType=Prelim&IType=FA

It would appear at some point there was low Main Rotor RPM, the MR Blades cut off the Tail Boom....witnesses saw the aircraft hover, oscillate in the roll axis, then spin right, and pitch down before being lost to sight.

The report removed the possibility of a mid-air collision with another aircraft or drone.

[Lonewolf_50]

Thanks for the link, SASless, TRGB was intact, had oil in it, and no chips. Tail boom severed. As of this report, still a few more questions than answers. With the fire damage a tough one for the investigators to sort out. If the boom was cut in flight, the abrupt change in CG (and the horizontal stab being lost) would likely lead to a serious nose down pitch, would it not?

[SASless]

It would indeed cause a huge CG Shift....forward.

The answer will be in determining why the Main Rotor hit the Tail Boom.

[OnePerRev]

If anyone has arrangement illustrations of the tail drive and control system, it would be helpful. One thing jumped out to me was the shearing of the TRDS section 3 being missing, with only an end cap found with sheared rivets. If by 'end cap' they are referring to the end portion of the drive rather than an environmental cap, then shearing rivets could be a sign of torque overload as well as simply being ripped out. The direction of loading on the rivets, if indicating rotational, can be a clue. Like these all are, the challenge for the investigating team is to determine what fractures preceded others. Troubling that they have not located one bearing and a shaft.

[Airbubba]

The NTSB has opened the accident docket with interviews, photos, diagrams and other findings:

https://t.co/Khz5R5pmIB?amp=1

NTSB Factual Report (previously linked above):

https://t.co/cBeA0IyOPv?amp=1

[[email protected]]

When recovering from a vortex ring state condition, the pilot tends first to try to stop the descent by increasing collective pitch. The traditional recovery is accomplished by increasing airspeed, and/or partially lowering collective to exit the vortex. In most helicopters, lateral cyclic thrust combined with an increase in power and lateral antitorque thrust will produce the quickest exit from the hazard. Vortex Ring State Training According to the FAA's Helicopter Instructor's Handbook (FAA-H-8083-4), vortex ring state (also known as settling with power) can safely be introduced and practiced at altitudes allowing distance to recover. The handbook also states the following: Ensure the student understands that settling with power can occur as a result of attempting to descend at an excessively low airspeed in a downwind condition, or by attempting to hover OGE at a weight and density altitude greater than the helicopter's performance allows…. Recovery is accomplished by…if altitude allows, reducing collective and lowering the nose to increase forward speed. This moves a helicopter out of its downwash and into translational lift. When the helicopter is clear of the disturbed air, or downwash, confirm a forward speed indication and initiate a climb to regain the lost altitude.
Interesting that there is still reference to vortex ring being the same as settling with power and a mix of recovery techniques, one of which is the Vuichard one in all but name. No wonder pilots get confused when this comes from the authority.