Who's in control after transfer?

[elafrican]

Greetings guys.
I have a question for the ATCOs of this forum. I'd rather EU ones answer since FAA is sort of different, but whatever you can give helps.
I'm a TWR ATC. Our CTR is capped at 6500ft. In the middle is the VOR that has 5 airways that connect to it. All airways have lowest level at FL50 or 60. Let's assume QNH is 1013 so the difference is not huge and all airways are actually in the CTR at their lowest level.
We dont have APP, so ACC brings the a/c at transfer point and releases it to us.
I'll give an example. A/c is inbound point X that's on a FL50 route. ACC instructs a/c to descend to FL50 and transfers it to TWR because it's approaching said point. A/c is at FL90 and descending.
Considering ACC terminated the radar service and a/c is above my CTR ceiling who's in control of the a/c? Can the TWR assume control of said aircraft even if it's above the CTR, but still in class C airspace.
The LoAs are pretty unclear if not absent regarding this.
Thank you for the help.
Regards,
Stefan

[blissbak]

You are a TWR controller but you were told that you control a CTR? :hmm:

[chevvron]

After the release point, the receiving controller is in control of the aircraft, however, what type of approach is it carrying out?. If its visual then OK, but any tine of iap requires APP to be provided and you say there isn't one.

[parishiltons]

Greetings guys.
I have a question for the ATCOs of this forum. I'd rather EU ones answer since FAA is sort of different, but whatever you can give helps.
I'm a TWR ATC. Our CTR is capped at 6500ft. In the middle is the VOR that has 5 airways that connect to it. All airways have lowest level at FL50 or 60. Let's assume QNH is 1013 so the difference is not huge and all airways are actually in the CTR at their lowest level.
We dont have APP, so ACC brings the a/c at transfer point and releases it to us.
I'll give an example. A/c is inbound point X that's on a FL50 route. ACC instructs a/c to descend to FL50 and transfers it to TWR because it's approaching said point. A/c is at FL90 and descending.
Considering ACC terminated the radar service and a/c is above my CTR ceiling who's in control of the a/c? Can the TWR assume control of said aircraft even if it's above the CTR, but still in class C airspace.
The LoAs are pretty unclear if not absent regarding this.
Thank you for the help.
Regards,
Stefan
The LoA should state the ToC point and any associated conditions or limitations to change of clearance by the receiving unit, e.g. no restrictions, back coord required in certain circumstances. Ideally, the flight should not change frequency until that ToC point. If your LoA is not clear, then get it fixed. This is a clear safety risk that needs to be managed to ALARP.

[elafrican]

You are a TWR controller but you were told that you control a CTR? :hmm:

I am a TWR controller with APP(not APS) licence. Thus I provide procedural approach and twr control. I should of specified in the beginning, we're not that important to have an actual APP.

After the release point, the receiving controller is in control of the aircraft, however, what type of approach is it carrying out?. If its visual then OK, but any tine of iap requires APP to be provided and you say there isn't one.

Same thing I said to blissbak. The a/c performs a STAR. I do APP and TWR from 0 to 6500 ft.
I know after the release the a/c is in my control, but what happens when the a/c is released before, like 10NM from COP or above the CTR, like 8000-9000 ft?

The LoA should state the ToC point and any associated conditions or limitations to change of clearance by the receiving unit, e.g. no restrictions, back coord required in certain circumstances. Ideally, the flight should not change frequency until that ToC point. If your LoA is not clear, then get it fixed. This is a clear safety risk that needs to be managed to ALARP.

If I could get it fixed I would. There are no procedures regarding this. The ACC states in the coordination they are releasing it at COP and descending to coordinated FL.
I was thinking that in order to bypass this, I could just say "proceed as cleared by radar/previous sector, report at COP/FL". This way I am not issuing any commands to the a/c, or I think I am not, since I didn't clear it for anything.

Thanks for the replies guys. I know aviation is different around the world, but I hope safety stuff is general and I could cover my behind if the management won't.
Regards.
*COP=ToC

[LFVA]

Out of curiosity, why would you need control between that FL90 and 6500 ft? If you want to be sure, wait those 2-3 min and ask him to report 6500.

[blissbak]

You need the unit APP rating to validate your license, the APP rating must be part of your license, part of the unit training plan and so on.
According to your AIP, is the APP service provided or not in your airport, if not what you are doing is an abuse.

However, back to your question, and if what your are doing in that part of the planet is legal, during the coordination you have to reach an agreement with the ACC, you are entitled to go out from the standard (LOAs) and go for an earlier release, even out of your jurisdiction area, that's called airspace delegation.

But yet, an APP controller can do what I stated above, a TWR controller is not supposed to, you should normally take control of traffic when established on the final track of an IFR procedure .

[LFVA]

OP said earlier they've APP-rated (together with ADI, I assume).

That's how procedural TWRs work. I'm not sure where you see the illegality of it.