Vistajet rumour...

[PSF2J]

Heard today of an incedent where a Vistajet crew member was in possession of a firearm which they then accidentally fired.
Rumour has it that it damaged the fuselage... anyone heard anything?

[GL1DE]

Most likely a rumour, arms would be only allowed on board let alone airside and handed to the crew member, after it has been made safe.

Being "made safe" means, carrying out the following procedure:
Mags removed.
Bullet ejected from the firing chamber.

If the above was done.
Arm then fired safely via the trigger to ensure nothing is inside, as it should.
Then trigger locked.
After which, arm and mag separately handed to the Captain for safe storage, before boarding.

[mutt]

arms would be only allowed on board let alone airside and handed to the crew member, after it has been made safe.

Do you actually fly corporate aircraft?

[Max Torque]

What Mutt said.

[Global Aviator]

Carrying firearms no issue if you have the correct permits and procedures.

Yes personally have many times.

Still have a lock box....

[PSF2J]

Gl1de,

You obviously don't work in corporate ops, nor understand FAA rules :ugh:

PSF2J

[galaxy flyer]

Nor safe gun handling.

GF

[GL1DE]

Do work in private ops, so sharing views from experience.
Please share yours too, wouldn't mind learning more.

[Tray Surfer]

We carry firearms in the flight deck... Gun one side, ammunition the other.

All be it they still terrify me having them onboard.

[Welle]

Interesting thread, gents...

Having been in this biz now for a reasonable time, i have seen a lot of bodyguards carrying pistols, but can not remember a single case where these were reqistered or officially noted to the crew..., well, thats part of the game, expecially in the "wild" east. Only registration was for severeal flights we transported hunting guns and ammunition, but thats another thing, i know..

I am aware, that there is some legislation for US pilots carrying personal firearms while on duty, but how do you (US and EASA) crews deal with this on international flights? In Europe (at least in the country where i reside) there are very strict laws on personal carry on weapons?

I imagine a SAFA check, where the authorities find a pistol and some ammunition? How would they deal with it?

greets
Welle

[Above The Clouds]

Most likely a rumour, arms would be only allowed on board let alone airside and handed to the crew member, after it has been made safe.

Being "made safe" means, carrying out the following procedure:
Mags removed.
Bullet ejected from the firing chamber.

If the above was done.
Arm then fired safely via the trigger to ensure nothing is inside, as it should.
Then trigger locked.
After which, arm and mag separately handed to the Captain for safe storage, before boarding.

Well I guess you don't fly in business/corporate jets and have quite clearly never flown east of Europe or especially in Russia.

When the lovely blonde customs lady hands me a bag of side arms the body guard normally has a concealed one around his ankle, so I always make sure I have the loaded one from the bag. :ok:

Side arms in corporate aviation are almost the norm when carrying high profile individuals and bears no resemblance what so ever to airline ops.

In Russia the nice customs lady asked me if there were any firearms onboard, I said yes here is mine and reached inside my uniform to show her, she immediately stopped me and said no you are ok I mean firearms for the pax :D

[FlyMD]

Regulations aside, experience has shown that no matter how professional or experienced the bodyguards or security agents purport to be, the more they handle their weapon, the higher the risk of an accidental discharge.

We used to make the PM's friendly goons walk over to an especially prepared area of the tarmac where the air force, who was running that part of the field, had placed a big bucket of sand surrounded by two walls made of soft, thick wood. There they would remove the ammo from their handguns, and then hand said ammo to us upon boarding. They always kept the gun, nobody ever saw the point of confiscating an unloaded weapon and keep it in the cockpit where it would take away space I needed and potentially scratch the nice wood veneer...

Now the Lieutenant-Colonel in charge of the VIP Tarmac always had a big frown on his face during this procedure, and tried to keep the VIPs inside and as far away as possible during this procedure. As he was an otherwise friendly guy and sharp cookie, we decided to buy him a beer after hours and bring the subject up. He proceeded to enlighten us about the half-dozen times handguns had gone "bang" in the "safe" area just as the VIPs were boarding. Also, swore that half the "unloaded" guns carried aboard probably still had one in the chamber, whether on purpose or not. Our suggestion that we as flight crew could check the proper unloading of the weaponry was met with great mirth....

It only took another beer to decide that from now on we were not going to bother any bodyguards about their guns any more, and that the safest place for their guns and ammo to be was in their holsters, untouched.
On other hand, we went to the trouble of printing a leaflet in 3 languages for the benefit of security personnel, reminding them of the trouble they could get in if they had not reported their firearms to the destination country, and gotten the proper permission.

Never had trouble since.....

[lear60fellow]

Former USSR? I have taken in cockpit all kind of fire arms, but always be sure magazine is out and gun unloaded. If too many guns then go on baggage compartment non reachable in flight.