AirTransat pax phone 911 after 5hrs on tarmac, aircon stops when fuel exhausted

[Infieldg]

'You can't do this to us': Fuming passengers stuck on planes for hours call 911 - Ottawa - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/air-transat-ottawa-planes-parked-hours-delay-1.4230048)

"The plane that landed from Brussels lost power because it ran out of fuel, and the resulting lack of air conditioning caused the plane to heat up, the airline added".

Went dark after 4hrs on the ground, 911 called after 5hrs and all seemingly avoidable judging by Ottawa Airport's tweet and press release ;

"We're disappointed @airtransat's response to diversion of flight 157 to YOW. We were ready to assist upon request"

https://yow.ca/en/media-center/press-releases/ottawa-airport-assists-air-transat-passengers


"... 20 aircraft diverted to the Ottawa International Airport"..."15 were from international destinations"..."Questions have been raised with respect to one particular flight operated by Air Transat, between Brussels, Belgium and Montreal, Quebec. The aircraft landed in Ottawa at 5:10 pm and departed at 11:00 pm. With respect to this flight, the Airport Authority was in contact with the airline’s local ground handler. We had a gate available and air stairs ready in the event that the airline decided to deplane. We also had buses on the tarmac ready to shuttle passengers to the terminal – buses the Authority purchased specifically for situations such as this. Neither the ground handling service nor the airline requested either of these during the event".

[fox niner]

Looks like a truely deplorable event. Totally unacceptable and is probably going to backfire in a a big way. If the airport authorities of Ottawa react like this, I would expect some careers to end whithin a few days. Horrible.

[Capn Bloggs]

If the airport authorities of Ottawa react like this
Going only on what is in those articles, it reads as though the problem lies fairly and squarely with AT.

Mustn't have landed with much fuel to have the APU cark it after 4 hrs...

[Jet Jockey A4]

All I know is that when they were scheduled to land in CYUL there were massive thunderstorms with hail reported in the Montreal area (I drove through some of it but not the hail).

I believe the aircraft in question was holding for some time to allow the storms to go through the area but then decided to go on to its alternate CYOW.

What fuel remained onboard at the alternate will surely be part of an investigation.

Still can't figure out why they did not deplane all the pax while they waited to refuel and get on their way back to CYUL, a 20 minute flight.

[Derfred]

What fuel remained onboard at the alternate will surely be part of an investigation.

What investigation?

[golfyankeesierra]

Not the first time an Air Transat crew could have been a little more aware about their fuel.
"Now it does it again" ;)

[UPP]

looks like a truely deplorable event. Totally unacceptable and is probably going to backfire in a a big way. If the airport authorities of ottawa react like this, i would expect some careers to end whithin a few days. Horrible.

but not fault of airport. Please read article again.

[Sailvi767]

4 hours to flameout is about 2000lbs of fuel. It's possible they landed with required reserves but the tank feeding the APU went dry. Still you would have to xpected them to request fuel.

[sleeper]

I very much doubt 2000lbs would come even close to the required 30 minutes of reserve fuel.
Very strange they did not refuel while on the ground after landing. I can't imagine a professional crew just ignoring or forgetting about the fuelstate until the apu dies, so there must be more to it.

[clunckdriver]

Air Transat is due for a major audit and shake up, the foul ups one sees are a common occurrence, but which outfit gets the endless "experts" ranting away on this site? Well it not ATI This in spite of their total second rate operation and lack of passenger handling skills, the endless threads giving another company abuse are I believe a reflection of the number they employ who didn't get selected by their first choice of airline. As for AT making totally false statements and trying to deflect their own incompetence onto the staff at Ottawa is a further reflection of their total lack of ethics, sadly, I doubt that our so called regulatory body will do stuff all to fine them or shut them down, they would rather chase after private pilots , an easy target and unlikely to have the money to defend themselves! Just cant wait for some gem of wisdom from our so called Minister of Transport!

[Tu.114]

The amount of total fuel on board on landing and the fuel available to run the APU need not be the same.

Type dependant, the APU can only be fed from one or some tanks and the fuel in the others may be usable only to the engines but not to the APU. Also, there are APU installations around that require a minimum fuel level way above the unusable ullage in their respective supply in order to be run, further limiting the operating time in such a situation.

Now, I will not claim to have any knowledge about relevant systems in the type used by Air Transat, so let me just say this one thing: While this occurrence may well have been easily avoided by calling in for fuel or possibly an external air conditioning (of course in the absence of electric storms leading to a stoppage of handling!), the information given on here does not really allow throwing accusations of landing with lower-than-prescribed fuel.

[Sailvi767]

I very much doubt 2000lbs would come even close to the required 30 minutes of reserve fuel.
Very strange they did not refuel while on the ground after landing. I can't imagine a professional crew just ignoring or forgetting about the fuelstate until the apu dies, so there must be more to it.

On most aircraft the APU feeds out of one tank. Depending on the aircraft you might be able to move fuel around to keep the APU running. Airbuses however are not friendly that way. It's likely there was a lot of fuel onboard when the APU quit, it was just not usable by the APU.

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

I very much doubt 2000lbs would come even close to the required 30 minutes of reserve fuel.
Isn't that 30 minutes a requirement when planning the flight.

There must, logically, be circumstances where it acceptable to use your "reserve" and land practically empty, otherwise it's not really "reserve fuel", it's ballast!

I'd have thought it very possible they arrived at Montreal, their intended destination, with a perfectly acceptable fuel remaining, but then the combination of a hold at montreal (which may have exceeded the nominal hold for planning?) and then the diversion to ottawa used up most of that fuel?

[fox niner]

Ah come on guys,
Stop babbling about APU fuel usage and/or aircraft system availability. Cut the crap. When passengers start calling 911, you KNOW that you have made a serious mistake.

[albatross]

Not the first time Pax on an aircraft diverted to YOW and left sitting in the weeds have called 911. Happened a couple of years ago..can not remember details..TV and Newspaper outrage...great uproar.."things will be done" from the airline and the airport...followed by "crickets".
I assume the same process will occur in this case..much surprise, shock and expressions of concern followed by a roaring silence.

[Chronus]

What about FTL. Reports mention landed after eight hour flight + 6 hrs sitting on tarmac. Sounds very much like delay exacerbated by crewing issues.

[standbykid]

I've had mostly good experiences with AT.
However I was delayed a few years ago, due to weather (snow), for four hours on the tarmac prior to departure at YYZ. We got some water.
So while not nearly as bad as the other day for those traveling AT, don't expect EU style compensation.

[TRW Plus]

These pax narrowly avoided the horror of entering Ottawa airport terminal. They should count themselves fortunate. :eek:

[Kewbick]

What is wrong with the Ottawa airport terminal?

[Water pilot]

Does the APU really burn 75 gallons of jet fuel per hour (if my calculation of 2000 pounds equivalent is right)? I am only familiar with diesel but that would be a 1000 kW generator at full load, which barely fits onto a flatbed truck and would easily power a shopping mall. I think jet fuel has a greater power density than diesel.

Seriously asking, trying to learn. Thanks.

[Jet Jockey A4]

What investigation?

Confirmed today in newspapers and by AT that an official investigation is now opened.

The passengers were aboard the aircraft on the ground in Ottawa for almost 6 hours.

[WHBM]

This seems a regular occurrence in North America, where handling agents are somewhat lacking compared to the services they can supply in Europe; airlines seem to self-handle to a greater extent there, and come a diversion things all fall apart. This applies right through to use of gates, and everything else. Presumably when the APU shut down there was no agent able to hook up a generator. I bet the toilets stopped working as well.

It shouldn't need regulating, but the level of indifference shown by head offices unfortunately seems to show that it needs to be.

[litreofcola]

What is wrong with the Ottawa airport terminal?

Yes, do tell.

As for the airport authority not helping....or no stairs being available....

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGK-gbSUQAA7Wtg.jpg:large

[suninmyeyes]

Waterpilot asked Does the APU really burn 75 gallons of jet fuel per hour (if my calculation of 2000 pounds equivalent is right)?

A typical widebodied airliner APU burns approximately 300 kgs of jet fuel per hour on the ground or 660 lbs. If needed during flight it is more efficient at cruise altitude and uses approx 100 kgs or 220 lbs per hour.

[IBMJunkman]

Can someone explain the cockpit crew thinking, Well, let's sit here for 6 hours?

At some point I would just say Screw it, call for the stairs and busses.

[Abbey Road]

A Boeing 777 APU uses 240 to 300 kg an hour.

[CONF iture]

How many planes diverted to Ottawa ?
YOW is not that big, could it be that air transat was temporarily parked on a taxiway with one engine running. One engine burns 4 times what an APU does ...
Anyway, the very first thing an airplane requires after a diversion is fuel, then there must be a reason why that fuel took a while to be loaded ... ?

[sleeper]

Isn't that 30 minutes a requirement when planning the flight.

There must, logically, be circumstances where it acceptable to use your "reserve" and land practically empty, otherwise it's not really "reserve fuel", it's ballast!

I'd have thought it very possible they arrived at Montreal, their intended destination, with a perfectly acceptable fuel remaining, but then the combination of a hold at montreal (which may have exceeded the nominal hold for planning?) and then the diversion to ottawa used up most of that fuel?

Yes, but then it is a mandatory "mayday" when expecting to land with less than 30 minutes fuel. Did they declare? Also, would you not order immediate refueling and not wait 5 hours?

I know that the apu uses only one main tank, having flown the entire Boeing family, so it does not mean they had no fuel at all, just one main tank empty. I have no knowledge about airbus systems.

[groundbum]

I'm sure this is the simple stuff that Captains get to make decisions on every day. The crew probably expected to sit tight for an hour then be off, then that hour went to 2 hours, but then at the end of the 2 hours something else cropped up "be off in 30 minutes" so sit tight etc. And at the end of 6 hours, and no doubt with the pilots talking to Head Office about options, they finally get off.

It's easy in hindsight to say they should have immediately deplaned, but I bet the crew didn't honestly think it would take 6 hours to set off again. If they had known that at the beginning I like to think they would have deplaned.

[Cough]

Can the A330 use the right main tank to feed the APU?

[pchapman]

Reports in Canada make it sound like Air Transat could have gotten assistance for the plane, despite all the other planes (20 or 30, not clear) that diverted to Ottawa (only a medium sized airport one might say).

"The airline said the airport staff were unable to provide bridges to allow the plane to be unloaded and there were delays both in refuelling the aircraft and refilling the drinking water reservoir.
The Ottawa International Airport Authority disputes those claims, saying closer to 20 planes were diverted and all other planes were refuelled and on their way within three hours, most within the first hour or two.
The airport authority said there was both a gate and air stairs available, and they were prepared to bring supplies beyond just bottled water to the stranded passengers — but never received clearance from Air Transat."

So there's a bit of a war of words about who was responsible for what.

As for what "rights" passengers might have:
"In a written statement Wednesday, the transportation agency said it was launching an inquiry to determine whether Air Transat respected its tariff — a document that sets out, among other things, an airline's rights and responsibilities toward its passengers.
According to that tariff, in the case of an on-board delay more than 90 minutes, Air Transat promises to offer passengers the option of getting off the plane."

Source:
How paramedics responded to 911 calls from Air Transat passengers stranded in Ottawa - Ottawa - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/air-transat-ottawa-airport-stranded-911-1.4234647)

[CONF iture]

The Ottawa International Airport Authority disputes those claims, saying closer to 20 planes were diverted and all other planes were refuelled and on their way within three hours, most within the first hour or two.
So, what made that specific aircraft was not able to benefit from the same service ... ?

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

There was a post earlier about duty time. Could it have been that the transat crew was actually out of time, so while other a/c were able to leave again after a couple of hours, the transat plane was stuck, perhaps waiting for a replacement crew to drive up from Montreal (a good two hours drive in the conditions, i would say, never mind tracking down a crew to start with)

Just a random thought.

[Romasik]

Can the A330 use the right main tank to feed the APU?
Directly no. It's fed from the left tank. But of course fuel can be transferred.
The APU consumption with GEN and AC use is around 215 kg/h.

[Piltdown Man]

Now if they were out of hours and had the passengers been informed they might have got away with it. And as a plan that might have worked. Even if a "guessed" fuel load was uplifted at least the lights would not have gone out. But someone, somewhere forgot to think about the about all the practicalities of looking after a plane load of passengers for a several hours. Things like water, toilet service, food, drink etc. have to be considered. Having little other information other than Ottawa airport saying they could have helped and a passenger dialling 911 all we really know is that this was an almighty cock-up.

[clunckdriver]

We diverted from Montreal at about the same time, we fueled , provided refreshments, had a tug hooked up to move us, {a certain aircraft blocked us by rank stupid parking, no prize for guessing which aircraft} and were on our way to Montreal within about one hour {I'm just guising on this time frame} A great flight all round with both flight deck and cabin crew knowing how to handle such events. We were a Trans Atlantic flight by the way. What a bad joke some of these outfits are!

[CONF iture]

You were fueled, they were not ... Major difference for a sane continuation of the day.
Not too sure what the outfit or the crew had to do with it ... ?

[Mark in CA]

So while not nearly as bad as the other day for those traveling AT, don't expect EU style compensation.

This flight originated in Brussels, which the last time I looked was still in the EU. Hence this flight falls under EU regulations. In this case, the delay was caused, initially, by bad weather, hence, no monetary compensation for passengers (exceptional circumstances). But the airline still had an obligation to provide basic comfort-level items such as water and air conditioning while they waited, and deplane after five hours on tarmac.

[cp5463]

There was a post earlier about duty time. Could it have been that the transat crew was actually out of time, so while other a/c were able to leave again after a couple of hours, the transat plane was stuck, perhaps waiting for a replacement crew to drive up from Montreal (a good two hours drive in the conditions, i would say, never mind tracking down a crew to start with)

Just a random thought.
The CARS say max Flt plan time 14 hrs under situations like this you can go 15 hrs and
under abnormal situations such as this up to 17 hours duty time

[rigpiggy]

Uhhh no, 17 hrs is a split duty day. As soon as they wer on the ground and chocks in they were now no longer unforeseen, it would be interesting what TC says wrt fdtl

[autoflight]

Maybe there was a credit check problem that delayed payment for fuel?

Been there, done that.