'Shocking pictures show female RAF recruit hurled around by naked servicemen'

[Airbubba]

Was this sort of thing still common in the RAF at the turn of the millennium? :confused:

Or was it an aberration at an outpost with weak supervision and leadership?

Did RAF officers partake in similar hazing à la Tailhook?

The timing of this 2001 RAF Mount Alice revelation seems to coincide with the victim's performance of a play at the 'Underbelly Edinburgh Fringe Festival' whatever that is.

Shocking pictures show female RAF recruit hurled around by naked servicemen in 'initiation ritual'

Rebecca Crookshank was just 21 when she arrived in the Falkland Islands but says it wasn't long before sexual harassment became simply a matter of routine

By Amy Sharpe 22:39, 29 JUL 2017

A woman recruit is hurled around by naked servicemen in a shocking “initiation ceremony”.

One man – with just rubber gloves on his head and genitals – presses Rebecca Crookshank against him as a mate assists.

In a second picture she is held in a crude sexual position.

Rebecca, then just 21, was the only female among 28 RAF recruits and says sexual harassment became simply a matter of routine.

It comes after an investigation reveals military police launched at least 113 probes into claims of rape, sexual assault and harassment last year, according to the Ministry of Defence.

The particular bullying happened at RAF Mount Alice in the Falklands, where she was posted for four weeks in 2001. When she was flown in by helicopter she was greeted by a row of men, buttocks exposed.

Rebecca, now 36, said: “It was the beginning of a dark time.


Pictures in the Mirror article here:

Shocking pictures show female RAF recruit hurled around by naked servicemen in 'initiation ritual' - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/shocking-pictures-show-female-raf-10898398)

[Davef68]

The timing of this 2001 RAF Mount Alice revelation seems to coincide with the victim's performance of a play at the 'Underbelly Edinburgh Fringe Festival' whatever that is.



Underbelly is a venue, Edinburgh Fringe is an Arts Festival

[ORAC]

without discussing the case in question.

Mount Alice was an operational radar site on West Falkland and manned by operational personnel - no recruits on the unit.

Personnel were sent there on 4 month deployment from the permanent units. No one was posted there, and certainly not for 4 weeks (I was there July-Novemeber 1992).

Whilst female officers could be sent there as individuals, female Ors were only sent when there was a female officer deployed and at least 2 at a time to a female only cabin/room.

The temporary nature of the duty and rapid turnover of personnel make the concept of "initiation" ceremonies unlikely, there would have to have been one a week. The unit was also physically very small and any such activities would be virtually impossible to take place without the NCOs and Officers on unit being aware.

In short, there are several major errors of fact.

[MPN11]

Thanks for the detail, ORAC. Agree there are a lot of apparent errors in the article, as you highlight.

Long after my time on Stanley airfield (1983), but a couple of subsidiary questions for clarity, please.

1. Mount Alice was a full 4-month deployment? That is one bleak and lonely place to spend the time. Did you ever get R&R during the det?

2. Roughly how many personnel on the unit?

3. Could the "4 weeks" have been a temporary move from Mount Kent [assuming she was TG12] or from Stanley/Mt Pleasant to fill a temporary shortfall in a particular Trade?

4. Is that a solid fuel stove and chimney in the background of the 1st picture? Does that resonate with your memories?



An unpleasant story as presented, though.

[Skeleton]

The Journalist wrongly refers to them as recruits. She was on a 4 month det to the FI with her final month spent at the radar site.

I don't buy her story but no doubt the cupboard full of free money will shortly be opened.

[Martin the Martian]

In much the same way as any WW2 pilot is an ace or a modern fighter pilot is a Top Gun, so any young serviceman or woman is a recruit.

And might we actually consider the possibility that she is telling the truth?

[Flap62]

The pictures would certainly point to something deeply disturbing and unacceptable going on.

[Wyler]

OK, here are the facts. I was the CO from 1999 to 2002.
There are about 20 people on the remote Radar Sites ranging from Chefs to Technicians. The HQ is the Control and Reporting Centre at MPA. The HQ is known as Griffin and the Unit 303SU.
The radar site boss was a Chief Tech.
All the TG12 personnel were based at MPA. However, we did send one to each site on a 2 to 4 week rotation, male or female, for the experience and also to fill an operational requirement that is not relevant to this 'story'.
Did things occasionally get out of hand on the remote sites? - yes. The main culprits were usually visitors invited up from MPA for parties. It was an irritation but nothing major and the usual I.e too much drink, some damage and the odd scuffle.
Initiation ceremonies were always an issue and often difficult to police. You could have call the policies you wanted, and we did,but when the helicopter leaves and the doors are shut.....these activities were by no means unique to the radar sites. Some of the worst happened at MPA.
Regarding this young ladies account: those pictures seem genuine enough and are not good. That activity was not condoned and had I, or any other Officer, been aware of it it would have been stopped immediately. Those responsible would have been dealt with accordingly.
However, no complaint was ever made either at the time or in the months/years afterwards by this female (or anyone else on the site, including dozens of visitors). Everyone was interviewed when they left 303SU and we always encouraged honest feedback in order to make things better for those who came next. If she was so traumatised and upset why did she not scream from the rooftops. She did not. Offered a trip in an F3? Rubbish. That was not within anyone's gift who worked on the unit.
Friends of mine saw her show last year and asked her direct questions afterwards regarding names etc. She was unwilling or unable to answer.
The fringe is starting next week and she has a show to advertise. This is nothing more than a publicity stunt.

[Bigt]

I served in FI during 87. At that time I am quite sure only female officers were on the mountain tops.......and not too many of them. As ORAC has suggested the drafters at Innsworth would of taken into account the status of females/numbers before detaching any females. As for the head count at the sites.......time has taken its toll but I seem to recall one site having 24 personnel and that would of included Turner Diesel staff. On a slightly different thread I recall the arrival of a male FS to one of the mountain tops. His attitude/demeanour was having such a affect on morale he was brought down to Mount Pleasant and spent the remainder of his 3.5 months as the SWOs side kick. All 3 sites were close knit communities working hard in pretty harsh conditions I would have serious doubts as to the veracity of the claims....how has she been able to get hold of the photos if she was the victim?

[barnstormer1968]

Wyler.
Ignoring the written article above, have you not seen the TV programme with a focussed report on this very issue?
This is hardly a new story. One of the claims made by a female in the programme was that she complained about the treatment to her CoC but was told she had to stay there.

What stood out foe me in the TV orogramme AND the written article is the idea that a small remote site would have an initiation ceremony that involved sexually suggestive practices. While I'm used to some army units having initiation ceremonies/nights I found it odd that It was acceptable for a remote site with only a few personnel to have one.

I note that I havent seen male RAF personnel mention themselves going through this same ritual. Maybe Ive just missed them.

[Wyler]

Barnstormer.
It is NOT acceptable. It would never have been acceptable. It will never be acceptable.
She made no complaint to anyone In the the HQ. if she had complained on the mountain and been refused why did she not pick up the phone? Why did she not make a formal complaint the minute she got back to MPA?
I am not saying this so called ceremony did not happen. I am not saying she found it unacceptable, I am saying it was against ALL the rules and I still cannot understand why she kept so quiet for so long.
It does, however, give her show a boost..

[barnstormer1968]

Here is one such report. As per above, the pictures or story arent new.

https://youtu.be/VmxH9rGGD5Q

[barnstormer1968]

Barnstormer.
It is NOT acceptable. It would never have been acceptable. It will never be acceptable.
She made no complaint to anyone In the the HQ. if she had complained on the mountain and been refused why did she not pick up the phone? Why did she not make a formal complaint the minute she got back to MPA?
I am not saying this so called ceremony did not happen. I am not saying she found it unacceptable, I am saying it was against ALL the rules and I still cannot understand why she kept so quiet for so long.
It does, however, give her show a boost..

I'm not casting aspersions here. I am surprised though that this story seems to be news to PPRUNERS.
There have been several tv, tv news and printed articles on this story for quite a while.

[Wyler]

I am Surprised that I have not been formally contacted at any time. None of my colleagues at the time have ever been contacted.
I would have thought the first thing she would have done would be to note names, ranks, times, conversations etc. I would have expected, and fully condoned, her to create merry hell.
I am genuinely sorry that she had this experience. This was down to some very sad individuals breaking the rules. I really wish she had kicked down my door and screamed blue murder. I would have taken great delight in dealing with all those involved. So would 99.9% of those who were there at the time.

[Cows getting bigger]

I know nothing of this particular incident. However, I was based at MPA for 4 months in the first half of 1988 and visited Alice/Byron/Kent on a number of occasions as part of the 78 Sqn task - I could fully believe the antics as described. For sure, excessive alcohol consumption had a part to play in numerous occurrences.

Vague recollection - Alice was the only site where female scopies were sent with Byron and Mount Kent being male only.

[Pontius Navigator]

But who took the pictures? Such evidence is incontrovertible so no excuse for it being hidden.

[Linedog]

Maybe after all the "foreplay" she was left disapointed? :ooh:

[Two's in]

It seems reasonable to assume this actually happened as described (photographic evidence), so to Wyler's point of "why didn't she report it?'

Although 2001 seems recent to most of us, a lot has happened around the perception of professional conduct and sexual harassment in those 17 years. It is likely that having been treated in such a manner, this individual had little or no faith in the "chain of command". Allegedly, she has been sexually assaulted and abused by a large group of male servicemen, some of who were in positions of responsibility, but yet participated or condoned in the assault. It is not difficult to imagine a young isolated female would not choose to report this to the very people who were responsible.

If nothing else, the whole sordid tale of Operation Yewtree demonstrated time after time that young impressionable people are easily intimidated by those in authority and will choose not report crimes until years later . You can argue all day whether 21 is "young and impressionable" but if placed in a situation several thousand miles from stability and safety, after being assaulted by multiple assailants you can understand whether reporting it is the obvious thing to do. I like to think we live in slightly more enlightened times these days, but this was very real event back in 2001 and the time it has taken for her to report it has no bearing on the facts of the case. We should all hope this type of behavior is consigned to the history books while ensuring those guilty of it are held fully accountable.

[Trim Stab]

OK, here are the facts. I was the CO from 1999 to 2002.

Regarding this young ladies account: those pictures seem genuine enough and are not good. That activity was not condoned and had I, or any other Officer, been aware of it it would have been stopped immediately. Those responsible would have been dealt with accordingly.
However, no complaint was ever made either at the time or in the months/years afterwards by this female (or anyone else on the site, including dozens of visitors). Everyone was interviewed when they left 303SU and we always encouraged honest feedback in order to make things better for those who came next. .


The culture in the military at that time was not conducive at all to anybody giving negative feedback about drunken parties that got out of hand - you would just get labelled as not being a team player by your superiors if you complained.

[Pontius Navigator]

TS, around 95 I had to try a charge against one of my airwomen for having a man in her room. She committed no greater sin than giving him a coffee to help sober up before he went home. The RAF Police didn't hesitate to charge them.

In this case, she appears fully dressed which overall appears odd. Maybe she only felt assaulted in retrospect. Nothing against that of course but it could explain why there was no complaint at the time.

In retrospect many of us will believed we were wronged in the past or hadn't complained as it was not the done thing. When I did completely as a civil servant I was assured that my complaint was groundless . I am pleased to say the individual I complained of moderated his behaviour.

[November4]

In this article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11751718/Sexual-harassment-in-the-UK-Armed-Forces-The-dark-truth.html) from July 2015, she says she did report to a "high-ranked" officer

She recounts stories of being mooned by all the men lined up with their trousers down as soon as her helicopter touched down; of people talking about her ‘p****’ whenever she mentioned an amateur film she was making about cats; and even being tied to a bed by the men.

“It didn’t go any further than that, and I was clothed but it was frightening. As a 19-year-old woman, what can you do? I had to laugh through it.”

Crookshank did eventually request a meeting with a higher-ranked officer to explain what was going on, but when he flew to the mountain he see her, they held the personnel meeting in her bedroom. “He basically said, keep quiet and we’ll give you a flight on a Tornado F3,” she says. “So I took the flight.”

No mention of the incident that was photographed though.

[Chinny Crewman]

I would have taken great delight in dealing with all those involved. So would 99.9% of those who were there at the time.

It would appear her immediate CoC and those present were in the 0.1%. It's a shame that no one intervened instead of relying on a 21 year old to report the abuse. This individual is now active in preventing sexual harassment and bullying within the military so I think it sounds rather insular to dismiss this as a publicity stunt. Fortunately (hopefully!) things have moved on?

[November4]

And this report (http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/31/female-raf-recruit-reveals-horrific-sexual-abuse-she-was-subjected-to-6817857/)doesn't make for good reading.

Neither does the video in the article make for good viewing

[MAINJAFAD]

Oh Dear, the Alice Chicken has finally been found out. CBFFI plucked their feathers back in 2010 big time when he found out what Mount Alice's alcohol consumption was really like and put a 2 can rule on all of the mountain sites.

[Wyler]

The only other 'Senior Officer' at that time that visited those sites, and was part of 303SU, was a SEngo SO2 as the sites were 90% manned by technicians. The remainder were admin, chefs and a medic. Knowing him as I did, a stickler for detail, I do not believe that he would have asked her to keep quiet. I visited once a month and, funny old thing, no antics. My XO also went regularly. The only other officers would have been visitors.
As to the mooning. Standard practise at all the sites. Funny the first time you see it but then...

As someone said, time does not diminish the seriousness of this allegation. She can still make this formal.

[The Oberon]

Speaking as an ex-C/T who left in 86 who took part in many high jinks. What is in that report and video, even allowing for the fact that she may be "gilding the lily", is deplorable. I have been responsible for the day to day running of small locations and anything like that would have been stopped. Presumably there were other NCOs on site and, initially, my feelings would have been passed to them, if that failed I would have been more direct. The whole story smacks of "mob rule" and should never been allowed to develop to the level it did, and ,no, I was not a F252 waving firebrand but given a situation like that, I could have been.

Perhaps they should transfer to the RM who, I believe, have a tradition of themed parties.

[MAINJAFAD]

I took the 78 Sqn company vehicle, shutdown and spent the night on Alice and Byron on 3 separate occasions when tasking. Always found the 'locals' welcoming enough but a tiny bit weird. They sang their own songs and had a few strange customs. Nothing offensive that I can recall, but then I'm not female.

The 'Alice Chicken' as depicted in the photo did a streak through the middle of a gig by The Stranglers (CSE show) in 1999. It was amusing but pretty harmless. The 'locals' always mooned our departure and any F3 fly past - standard.

Off Topic - Best CSE show I ever attended, Pity I missed the party afterwards due to being on nights. Got a cracking shot of your cab though.

http://images.imagebam.com/ff/da/58/d9d3b8570487573.jpg

[The Nip]

I totally agree with Wyler re MPA being a lot worse. There were many females bussed up to the mountain sites for parties meals etc. The blokes wanted some female company.

Initiation ceremonies were common in almost every bar. Some were very extreme and were attended by all ranks. I will only give an example of one' Crab and Sprocket. All arrivals had to get through one of the different sized sprockets. More often this involved being naked and covered in swarfega. Both sexes.

I hated the extreme drinking culture at MPA, particularly in the early 90's. The violence that entailed was vicious in the extreme, with the corridors of the Death Star covered in blood on a Fri/Sat evening.

[Top Bunk Tester]

My tour in MPA was in late '93 and yes there was an extreme drinking culture in force. This is looking back with today's head on, so extreme would be a good word to use. At the time though it was the norm so was not seen as being extreme. Although it has to be said I stuck to the Messes and didn't venture down to the Death Star, I believe that risk was dependant on the resident battallion of the time. I also did a full tour of RAF(U) Goose Bay in the late '80s and that drinking culture put MPA in the shade. I did visit one of the Radar sites for the evening, may have been Byron, and it was much the same there as MPA. With today's head on I'm not saying that it was right, either MPA or Goose, but it was the norm. For all the holyer than thou's, think back to the latter part of the last century and recall Fri beer calls and then driving home. Ridiculous behaviour but I think most of us from that era were guilty of it at one time or another. Times like attitudes change, imagine lighting up in the middle of a restaurant these days, or even on the flight deck ... it USED to happen, maybe the world has improved, maybe it hasn't. My only thought on this particular incident is "Why bring it up now and not at the time?"

[Pontius Navigator]

to a "high-ranked" officer

In media speak this can be anything from a Sergeant to whatever.

Anyway, brave woman for raising the issue again. The two pictures are interesting though apart from the question of who took them. In one she appears to have her hand around the man's neck not pushing him off. OTOH in the other, where she is upside down, one man appears to be standing on her hands.

[Hangarshuffle]

I was always surprised by the amount of drinking the RAF did in the 1990's. A very deep part of the culture.

[LincsFM]

I was always surprised by the amount of drinking the RAF did in the 1990's. A very deep part of the culture.


Having done 2 tours at MPA in 96 and 04 I would add that the heavy drinking culture was across all ranks. I dread to think how many cans were shipped down to MPA every month!

[MAINJAFAD]

In media speak this can be anything from a Sergeant to whatever.

Anyway, brave woman for raising the issue again. The two pictures are interesting though apart from the question of who took them. In one she appears to have her hand around the man's neck not pushing him off. OTOH in the other, where she is upside down, one man appears to be standing on her hands.

PN

She took a Camcorder up there with her and asked somebody to film her first night on the mountain. Wouldn't have been the first to do it and definitely not the last. Likewise she most likely asked someone to film her going around the site so she could show the folks back home what the place was like. I did just such a thing in 1988 when I first got to Byron. I do actually know a couple of Female ASOp from that era who know the lass in question (one of them I gave lifts to for 4 years in 1991/95) and they said she told everybody at her home base when she got back. I was at Alice in 1999 at the back end of 751SU and none of what you saw on that video was happening. There was the 'Alice Chicken' which high spirits has correctly alluded to as being a bit of 'harmless' fun, it was kind of a chipndale act that was done as part of the major dining in nights and all the female visitors were normally primed of his (normally only one) existence. In fact he didn't touch anybody and it was the female visitors that molested him. It was nothing like what was shown on the film. Getting Mooned was normally a leaving present by somebody standing on the roof of the accommodation, not something that happened on arrival and not by half the unit!! Looks like she had the misfortune of going to a unit that had more than the normal number of 'Sex pests' who think with their balls rather than their brains and that most if not all of the SNCO's there fell in that category (I could name at least a dozen suspects off the top of my head that I ran into during my 30 years in the service).

[ByronCedric]

OK, here are the facts. I was the CO from 1999 to 2002.
There are about 20 people on the remote Radar Sites ranging from Chefs to Technicians. The HQ is the Control and Reporting Centre at MPA. The HQ is known as Griffin and the Unit 303SU.
The radar site boss was a Chief Tech.
All the TG12 personnel were based at MPA. However, we did send one to each site on a 2 to 4 week rotation, male or female, for the experience and also to fill an operational requirement that is not relevant to this 'story'.
Did things occasionally get out of hand on the remote sites? - yes. The main culprits were usually visitors invited up from MPA for parties. It was an irritation but nothing major and the usual I.e too much drink, some damage and the odd scuffle.
Initiation ceremonies were always an issue and often difficult to police. You could have call the policies you wanted, and we did,but when the helicopter leaves and the doors are shut.....these activities were by no means unique to the radar sites. Some of the worst happened at MPA.
Regarding this young ladies account: those pictures seem genuine enough and are not good. That activity was not condoned and had I, or any other Officer, been aware of it it would have been stopped immediately. Those responsible would have been dealt with accordingly.
However, no complaint was ever made either at the time or in the months/years afterwards by this female (or anyone else on the site, including dozens of visitors). Everyone was interviewed when they left 303SU and we always encouraged honest feedback in order to make things better for those who came next. If she was so traumatised and upset why did she not scream from the rooftops. She did not. Offered a trip in an F3? Rubbish. That was not within anyone's gift who worked on the unit.
Friends of mine saw her show last year and asked her direct questions afterwards regarding names etc. She was unwilling or unable to answer.
The fringe is starting next week and she has a show to advertise. This is nothing more than a publicity stunt.
Sorry to bring this old thread back but I'vee just stumbled across it. I was the NCO admin at Byron the same year as the reported incident and this sort of stuff happened all the time. Initiation ceremonies happened as soon as you landed and there was sexual innuendo everywhere. As for interviewing everyone as they came off the mountain, the only interview I received was from my 1st RO during my Det Report.

If you really were the CO of the mountain sites then you did a **** job if you didn't know any of this was going on!

[glad rag]

Sorry to bring this old thread back but I'vee just stumbled across it. I was the NCO admin at Byron the same year as the reported incident and this sort of stuff happened all the time. Initiation ceremonies happened as soon as you landed and there was sexual innuendo everywhere. As for interviewing everyone as they came off the mountain, the only interview I received was from my 1st RO during my Det Report.

If you really were the CO of the mountain sites then you did a **** job if you didn't know any of this was going on!

Indeed!

The swarfega sprockets>>>>interesting thing is until you tried you didn't realise they EXPANDED; well you could get nakid if that was your thing I suppose. :hmm:

An anecdotal tale

Worse thing I encountered was on orderly cpl "down the back" with a Lance Jack on a Friday night.

Mucho shenanigans going on down 48 but as we both wanted to keep out remaining teeth in situ the unspoken agreement was to avoid serious trouble.

In the end It was quite uneventful, no pools of blood or vomit....

Well it was until we were accosted by a florid faced gentleman who demanded that we run down 48 to find "the women".

Now, being a RAF engineering technician may have meant that I wasn't the brightest match in the box, :} but this did set some warning bells off.

Unfortunately my Lance Jack colleague was having none of this and enquired if said gentleman was in fact :mad: pissed!

The volume rose to extreme level as he proclaimed himself to be a "Provost Officer of the Royal Air Force" and "I am going to charge you both with failure to obey a direct order!!"

"Oh My"

It was at this point some more snowdrops arrived including someone in charge.

OK he was on a lead, but there was also the Ord Off, someone with a THICK blue/dark blue band , and a troop of RIC with batons.

I thought, here we go; were done for now; tell Laura I loved her; etc etc when said Thick bands "Get this man under close arrest I'll deal with him in the morning [ok later on that day but you get the jist]

And this Prv Off was picked up and bodily removed by the RIC to much, of no avail, bluster.

Turns out he'd been looking out for women alright...odious bastard...I believe he was shipped out "return of post"..



Now about that time the boat crew had a run ashore in 12 facility......

[The Old Fat One]

If you really were the CO of the mountain sites then you did a **** job if you didn't know any of this was going on!

Since you quoted his entire post is it unreasonable to suggest you actually read it????

He didn't say he "didn't know any of this was going on!"...he actually gives a pretty good account of it!.

What he said was no formal complaint was made...which is an entirely different thing.

Since you were a SNCO and somewhat "closer to the coal face" so to speak, maybe you should not be chucking stones in your glasshouse, no?

[Pontius Navigator]

You should work to the rule:

Do I want to read about this in the currant bun?

[ByronCedric]

Since you quoted his entire post is it unreasonable to suggest you actually read it????

He didn't say he "didn't know any of this was going on!"...he actually gives a pretty good account of it!.

What he said was no formal complaint was made...which is an entirely different thing.

Since you were a SNCO and somewhat "closer to the coal face" so to speak, maybe you should not be chucking stones in your glasshouse, no?
Read his post again. He says he knew nothing of it at the time. His account is based on the news story!

As for my post, if you read it properly you'll see I didn't state SNCO. The NCO admin on the mountain sites was a JNCO. The SNCOs were as bad as the rest so there was no point saying anything to them.

I therefore return your stones as I don't live in a glasshouse.

[NutLoose]

TS, around 95 I had to try a charge against one of my airwomen for having a man in her room. She committed no greater sin than giving him a coffee to help sober up before he went home. The RAF Police didn't hesitate to charge them.



Been there, seen it and done it, visiting a girlfriend at the time at her block, I was standing OUTSIDE chatting to her through her window, the block was in a dip with steepish grass slopes around it, going to leave I slipped on the damned wet grass bank and my arm went through her window, I was told I was being charged with assault as she got hit by a piece of glass but fortunately was not injured, OC WRAF and the plods had cajouled her into that pearl, I was also being charged with being out of bounds!
On the interview I was asked if I had seen the out of bounds signs, I said yes it was screwed on the wall in front of me, I then said the fact I could stand by the Berlin wall did not put me in East Berlin, and standing looking at a sign in front of me does not put me out of bounds, nor does it put me in the WRAF block either.
The girlfriend realised what they were trying to do and soon put a stop to their insidious little tricks, I had owned up to the accident straight away and ended up with a bill for the window and that was the end of it..

[Pontius Navigator]

NL, may I say I had been given no option but to find her guilty and fine her the sum ordained. It was the cost of one nights B&B at the Petwood in Woodhall Spa.

[Linedog]

NL, may I say I had been given no option but to find her guilty and fine her the sum ordained. It was the cost of one nights B&B at the Petwood in Woodhall Spa.

Currently £140 per night for B&B.

[papa_sierra]

And worth it. Lovely place, pity about the golfers.

[Wensleydale]

..but you can get it for £90 if they have rooms free at short notice.

[air pig]

And worth it. Lovely place, pity about the golfers.

They do a very good afternoon tea.

[Avtur]

And the Dambusters bar is a treasure trove of information and artifacts as of 2011 when I was last there.(Deliberate collaboration with the thread drift btw)

[Jabba_TG12]

Barnstormer.
It is NOT acceptable. It would never have been acceptable. It will never be acceptable.
She made no complaint to anyone In the the HQ. if she had complained on the mountain and been refused why did she not pick up the phone? Why did she not make a formal complaint the minute she got back to MPA?
I am not saying this so called ceremony did not happen. I am not saying she found it unacceptable, I am saying it was against ALL the rules and I still cannot understand why she kept so quiet for so long.
It does, however, give her show a boost..

Quite. It has helped her sustain a career of sorts in a profession that notoriously has a 90% unemployment rate when she appears to have precious few other strings to her entertainment bow, so to speak.

Plus, the Metro/Mirror article is hardly Pulitzer winning in its accuracy. Recruits? Puhleeze..... Keep quiet and you'll get a flight in an F3? Oh come on, be serious.

I had three tours of Alice as a Scopie. 1989, 1995 and 1997. Ratarsed we often may have been, but this kind of cr*p never went down, especially when there were both female officers and female non commissioned's on the mountain. Had discipline really gone that much to ratsh*t in four years? While I accept that it is *possible* for what is alleged in the pictures to have happened at Alice, by the same token, I find her account and the way it has been reported to be somewhat questionable in its veracity. And thats putting it very politely.

[NutLoose]

Looking a the pictures they remind me off an act put on at some show or another.. I've seen worse on stage in the NAAFI

Not good, but she does not appear in any of them to be vehemently objecting, not that it makes it right, nor did she report it having documented proof on film, it makes you wonder why now? In the article it says she "educates other recruits on harrassment"... seems an odd thing to teach people while repressing your own incident for so long. I also wonder if she has hyped this up to sell her book?

She remained committed to exposing sexual harassment within the forces and in 2015 used mobile phone footage as part of a one-woman play about her ordeal, called Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

I wonder if it initially came out to coincide with her book sales and to plug her play?

https://www.oberonbooks.com/whiskey-tango-foxtrot.html

https://www.wtftheplay.co.uk/

[ByronCedric]

These posts are exactly why sexual assault is under-reported. You do realise that you're one short step away from victim blaming?

If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem and a lot of you here are most certainly part of the problem!

[NutLoose]

I am not blaming anyone, simply trying to understand why any woman or male for that matter would with such compelling evidence of a wrong doing ( if it was that ) sit on it for so long without revealing it to the authorities, especially when at the time something could have been done about it, not just in her case, but possibly to protect her contemporaries and those that came after her from it, but then to produce a play and write a book about it to profit from the experience, neither seem to sit comfortably with each other..

[ByronCedric]

Perhaps because the culture at the time impeded proper reporting? As I said previously, I was on a mountain site in the same year (not the same mountain site) and any reports of wrong doing were ignored and we have the, self-declared, CO of the mountain sites at that time stating that he waved off such incidents as "an irritation but nothing major and the usual I.e too much drink, some damage and the odd scuffle." (source: post 8 in this thread (I can't post links yet)). As a male I do not believe that I would have received the support required if I had reported anything so why would she? As for why she mentions it now. I cannot comment on her individual mental health but perhaps she is now in a position to use the abuse she suffered to help others? It is reported that she helps recruits who are suffering similar issues. That she makes a living from it shouldn't be part of the discussion. Should she give away any money she makes from this? Would you?

[Jabba_TG12]

These posts are exactly why sexual assault is under-reported. You do realise that you're one short step away from victim blaming?

If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem and a lot of you here are most certainly part of the problem!

Oh great, another Common Purpose "graduate". Just what we need... :rolleyes: Must be related to Pr00ne. Just the kind of New Labour sewage-speak that he'd come out with.

[Jabba_TG12]

I am not blaming anyone, simply trying to understand why any woman or male for that matter would with such compelling evidence of a wrong doing ( if it was that ) sit on it for so long without revealing it to the authorities, especially when at the time something could have been done about it, not just in her case, but possibly to protect her contemporaries and those that came after her from it, but then to produce a play and write a book about it to profit from the experience, neither seem to sit comfortably with each other..


.... and thats the one thing you'll never get a straight answer to either. Only an accusation of "victim shaming", which is the usual chaff & flares to be dispensed by the SJW types who spout such nonsense.

[ByronCedric]

Social justice warrior? No, just a decent person who isn't an old fart dinosaur. Obviously, talking to you is like pissing into the wind so I won't bother any more.

[glad rag]

These posts are exactly why sexual assault is under-reported.

PPRuNe must have some media coverage to achieve that.

[NutLoose]

Perhaps because the culture at the time impeded proper reporting? As I said previously, I was on a mountain site in the same year (not the same mountain site) and any reports of wrong doing were ignored and we have the, self-declared, CO of the mountain sites at that time stating that he waved off such incidents as "an irritation but nothing major and the usual I.e too much drink, some damage and the odd scuffle." (source: post 8 in this thread (I can't post links yet)). As a male I do not believe that I would have received the support required if I had reported anything so why would she? As for why she mentions it now. I cannot comment on her individual mental health but perhaps she is now in a position to use the abuse she suffered to help others? It is reported that she helps recruits who are suffering similar issues. That she makes a living from it shouldn't be part of the discussion. Should she give away any money she makes from this? Would you?

Fair enough, maybe that was the culture in play on the FI's at the time, but there was absolutely nothing to prevent her bringing it up when she returned to the UK when she was safely out of the prevailing culture. The point i was trying to get across if this was such an horriffic abuse, one would have thought she would have endeavoured to protect any other female from being put in that position, but as you say mental state etc. Never went South myself, but a lot of friends did, though they were a bit busy at the time as there was a war on, I would love to visit the place though as its a wildlife photographers paradise.