Ryanair passengers are taking the piss

[cyflyer]

Seeing news reports about Ryanair passengers taking liberties with the cabin baggage allowance. I'm with Ryan on this one and believe what they say is true. Seen people in boarding queues and often thought they are taking the piss, now Ryan are beginning to take note, and say they may have to change the rules, as people are taking everything except the kitchen sink in the cabin. I don't blame Ryan.. Two year old dragging their parents' luggage, now that is taking the mick. What do you think ?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/24/travellers-are-taking-advantage-of-bag-rules-to-avoid-fees-says-ryanair

[carousel]

People will take advantage, When it was a one bag allowance PAX would try for two now it's two bags, they are going for three! Think how much faster you could get through security if the family of four had not used eight trays for the bags plus two or three more for laptops electronics liquids and topcoats/boots?

[edi_local]

You're right, but also they now have to let people carry an airport shopping bag on as well. The airports seem to take great pleasure telling people they are ENTITLED to take an extra bag of shopping, which of course, some read as being ENTITLED to take as much shopping as they like on top of the trolley bag, handbag and maybe laptop bag and camera they decided to bring as well.

Charging for hold baggage was the wrong direction, the problem lies on board. Wizzair have the right idea, although I have not flown with them for a long time, I remember there being hardly any piss takers on board my flights with them because they would be charged for their sins!

[Piltdown Man]

RYR passengers are not unique. As soon as any airline starts to charge for anything, passengers will try to avoid the charge. Just like airlines try to avoid the charges for GPUs, airbridge, pushbacks, landing fees, nav. charges etc. Airports are just as greedy. In the U.K. they use security as a pretence to stop free parking near the terminal and then charge premium rates to park in the same spots. Long term parking is in the order of £17-18 per day, terminal improvements "for your benefit and convenience" means more wretched shops, gates are announced late to keep the punters shopping, some charge for snap-lock bags at security and you pay for 'fast track." Then we get to airlines. Using cookies, they determine you have looked at a particular flight more than once, so the price goes up on the second or third look. Splitting families so they can chisel out a few more quid by forcing you to pay to select your seat. Premium seating, speedy boarding, meals and sodding scratch cards... and then taking you to an airport nowhere near the town it is alledged to be near. So remind me again just exactly who is taking the piss.

[RAT 5]

If hi-speed trains, especially on the continent, could come down to LoCo prices, it would be a huge bonus and unlimited bags. Perhaps the same is true in UK. The case now is that from where I live to some sunnier climes by train = the price of petrol in my car. Plus, as there s no direct link the door-door time is about the same. Thus 2 people plus all the junk is a no brainer. Minus the junk, and flying + car rental is much cheaper. A great shame as long distance train travel can be a joy.

For the one-bag LoCo's the argument for arrival shopping is strengthened. They did try to ween pax off hold baggage for the airline's benefit. They even sold their own cabin bags, but then realised they could fit only 60% of a full load in the hat-bins. As these bags do not fit under the seat it is natural for the pax to say that a cabin bag can go in the locker and the shopping bag/computer can go under the seat, especially as many pax use their computer during the flight. If their is not enough room for the airline's own cabin bag, and it goes in the hold for free, that's not a pax problem. All the cabin crew baggage, and safety equipment, taking up lockers doesn't help. Perhaps lockers need redesigning for the modern world.

[flyingtincan]

You people have got it the wrong way around.
What I want is a rebate for getting on the plane with no bags, sitting in a middle seat and getting on last.

[PAXboy]

That's very good flyingtincan but, as you know, airlines do not have the word 'rebate' in their dictionary. Anymore than car dealers have the word 'discount'.

I can say that, reading the bleating of RYR, was a very good laugh. Piltdown Man describes the situation perfectly. We can guess that the time elapsed from someone thinking up the words 'Income Tax' not much more than 15 seconds would have passed before someone was thinking up how NOT to pay.

[Teaboy24]

Passengers seem to have latched onto the idea of saving a check-in charge for their hold baggage, take it with them to the gate and give it up to the gate staff to be put in hold for free when the usual call goes out for anyone who wants to put their bags in the hold.

Keep wondering what the next plan is to close this loophole.

[Harry Wayfarers]

My local airline doesn't offer child discounts, any person that occupies a seat pays full fare whether they be 3 years old or 73 years, and each full fare comes with a 7kg hand baggage allowance, and reading that Ryanair like to charge up to GBP90 for a 20kg checked-in baggage, bl00dy hell, I'd give my kid the allowed 7kg hand bag to carry also.

Whilst, to a beancounter, a seat is a seat thus may just have one price tag attached to it the airline are saving money if it is occupied by a child rather tan an adult, it costs circa 5% per hour in fuel to carry per kg so if the airline may be carrying 50kg less in a child than an adult then that is 2.5kg of fuel per hour they are saving, if they then try to stipulate that a child is not entitled to the inclusive hand baggage allowance then the airline's saving is even greater.

How do the airline's get around this?:

They offer a discounted child fare with special terms & conditions attached regarding a reduced, if any, baggage allowance that may reflect the airline's actual charge for checked-in baggage and it be the parents prerogative if they opt to pay a full fare or a discounted child fare.

Are the airline's likely to do this?:

No

Why?:

The beancounters!

[ExXB]

HW, pricing is not cost-plus. If it was you would have a single price for all seats regardless of when the ticket is purchased.

The correct price, from the airline's persoective, is the maximum price the punter will pay on that day. Anything more and you don't get the business. Anything less you lose opportunity.

That lighter kid could be very well offset by the fatter parent. In a perfect world we would pay per kg including everything taken on the aircraft. But impossible to implement.

[Harry Wayfarers]

ExXB,

I'm a self-employed hotelier these days, I have a price on my rooms, how much do I know the travelling public are prepared to pay? ... Well I don't until it may be too late, I can only guess.

I get many guests of one particular nationality, pertinent to the country I am domicile in, asking if my competitive room rates include a free breakfast to which my answer is always "There is no such thing as a free breakfast".

Similarly airline seats come with a baggage allowance, it is not a free allowance but comes inclusive with the fare paid, now if the airline have got their pricing structure wrong then whose fault is that?

My local airline from a drop-down menu one selects how many adults and how many children are travelling and, moving on, from a further drop-down menu enters dates of birth. If they try to say that kids are not allowed hand baggage then I would try booking the kid as an adult and then see if their date of birth thingy realises that the kid isn't old enough to be an adult. :)

[ExXB]

HW, note I said "from the airline's perspective". Not the punters.

In the days of IATA pricing all fares included food, drinks, 20kg/2pc luggage, etc. Prices were high and planes were lightly filled. While it might be nice to have the half-empty planes, many of us don't want to pay the price.

Perhaps all fares should be unbundled with all extras as bolt-ons.

[Harry Wayfarers]

Perhaps all fares should be unbundled with all extras as bolt-ons.

They've already tried that, now that have a new gimmick that some things are inclusive.

Was it two years ago that the airlines did away with fuel surcharges only for fares to increase?

Do you remember when the trick was to manufacture mobile phones that were as small as possible with battery lives that lasted forever and ever? :)

[PAXboy]

Correct Harry Wayfarers. In the UK, when mobile phones [Cell phones] started in 1985, I was in telecommunications. Over the next 10 years, people complained that the phones were too expensive. So the networks, slowly reduced the price of the handset - and increased the cost of the phone calls.

The networks were Delighted at the result as they made tons more money - even when they gave the phones away.

After another few years on, people complained that the phone calls were too expensive. But, by this time, the networks had established prices high enough that, even with a reduction, they could make good money.

At hotels, I do not usually have breakfast. When I book a hotel that is 'Bed & Breakfast' I do not ask for a rebate as it is my choice.

Back to airlines: With the continuing slump / recession in the UK, expect this kind of behaviour to increase.

[Harry Wayfarers]

At hotels, I do not usually have breakfast. When I book a hotel that is 'Bed & Breakfast' I do not ask for a rebate as it is my choice.

I endeavour to book a hotel on a 'room only' basis, on the offchance that a hotel deal may be cheaper, or the same price, including breakfast then I shall book and endeavour to set my alarm clock accordingly but it is not a term nor condition of my staying at that hotel.

[ExXB]

They've already tried that

No they have not. Some have, but not all. It is impossible to compare prices when you have to almost complete a booking before you have any idea of what most of the price is going to be. Adding in the cost of a meal and an (expensive) drink takes further research.

I'm sorry to say that more regulation is necessary to level the playing field.

[Harry Wayfarers]

Just go to a hotel price comparison engine and, invariably, Agoda shall always seem cheapest ... That's because the others have already included the taxes and other add-on's whilst Agoda haven't!

[ExXB]

Any consumer price offered in the US is net of taxes, except airline tickets where they are required to include them.

In the EU/CH consumer purchases must include the VAT. Other taxes, like municipal hotel taxes are usually excluded.

Where is the logic.

[DaveReidUK]

Passengers seem to have latched onto the idea of saving a check-in charge for their hold baggage, take it with them to the gate and give it up to the gate staff to be put in hold for free when the usual call goes out for anyone who wants to put their bags in the hold.

Keep wondering what the next plan is to close this loophole.

Hardly a "loophole" they would want to close:

"Oversized cabin baggage will be refused at the boarding gate, or where available, placed in the hold of the aircraft for a fee of £50/€50".

https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/useful-info/help-centre/faq-overview/Baggage/What-cabin-baggage-can-I-carry

[HamishMcBush]

Handluggage - a bit of an enigma. I am sure that we would al want to travel with our bags with us for (1) the peace of mind we get from knowing that they haven't been lost or sent to the wrong place and (2) no queueing to reclaim bags from the carousel after the flight.

No doubt the airlines would like no hand luggage at all to make boarding/unboarding as swift as possible but we all like to have "stuff" with us. On more than one occasion my wait to reclaim a bag from the carousel has been longer than the flight duration, hence I personally prefer to take hand luggage only - if some are using the legitimate advertised allowance for children, what's the problem?

I think the whole baggage thing needs a review, maybe planes even need re-designing to make it easier for large baggage items to be loaded and unloaded with their passengers, but then you face the airports where there are thousands of metres between terminal and the plane - how would the not-so-strong-and-fit cope? However staying with your luggage all the way to the plane means less chance of people boarding without their luggage, or luggage having to be unloaded as its owner failed to board. It would also mean the end to baggage halls and an end to theft by baggage handlers; just need a mind-shift in the brains of a few thousand people world-wide.....

[Teaboy24]

DaveReidUK

The point I was making but probably not very clearly, was that instead of pre-paying for a piece of hold baggage and joining a long queue at bag drop at the airport, some passengers are taking it plus their cabin bag to the gate and giving it to the gate agent to go in the hold when a call is made to relieve anybody of their bags.

On the several times I have been through STN recently I have never seen any fees collected at the gate. They just take any bags and put a tag on it.

Hence my reference to a loophole that seems to exists.

[Harry Wayfarers]

Pretty much the whole thing of cabin baggage, certainly to the volumes we see today, came about when the low cost carriers started charging an excess for checked-in hold luggage.

Reading thru many of these threads one could be led to believe that the only way to travel is by low cost, that all carriers charge for checked-in baggage, but not so ... and reading suggestion that all bags should be carried on board in to the cabin, well!

Just one example, that springs to mind, of when I travelled BHX/AMS/KBP, I had my laptop in case and I had a 25kg suitcase, I couldn't wait to check the suitcase in at BHX and I was quite happy to wait for it on the carousel in KBP.

At BHX it was likely that I went to the bar for a beer and a cigarette, up the escalator etc., on the transit it AMS walk a long distance to the Murphy's Irish Pub for another beer and a cigarette, then de-planing in KBP on a coaching stand and getting on to a packed bus to head off to the terminal, I simply dread the thought of completing such a journey whilst attached to a 25kg suitcase!

[DaveReidUK]

The point I was making but probably not very clearly, was that instead of pre-paying for a piece of hold baggage and joining a long queue at bag drop at the airport, some passengers are taking it plus their cabin bag to the gate and giving it to the gate agent to go in the hold when a call is made to relieve anybody of their bags.

On the several times I have been through STN recently I have never seen any fees collected at the gate. They just take any bags and put a tag on it.

Hence my reference to a loophole that seems to exists.

OK. I assume we're talking principally about Ryanair here, but regardless of the airline it seems to be not so much a loophole as a simple failure by the gate staff (who typically will be handling agents rather than airline staff) to implement the airline's existing conditions of carriage.

I wonder what passengers who try that tactic do on the occasions when they don't get asked to give up their bag - clearly when they get on board it's not going to fit in the overhead ?

[Harry Wayfarers]

With being in the departure lounge 30 minutes before, boarding commencing perhaps 20 minutes before, with expediting departures a top priority, I can just imagine the delays incurred whilst financially penalising passengers for excess baggage, processing payments in different currencies, credit card payments etc. ... Oh yes, the airline have definitely got their business model right on this one!

[Teaboy24]

Do gate staff have the facility to collect fees at the gate anyway ? Their priority is getting the flight boarded on time, invariably there is only one staff present anyway.

There used to be a time when everyone walking into the gate area at STN got intercepted by staff eager to relieve people of their excess bags and take fees at the desk but that stopped and got shifted to the gate.

As someone who travels with rucksack only which fits under the seat, annoys me watching the antics on the aircraft trying to fit it all in overhead lockers. Just think how much quicker security process would be with less baggage to process.

Aircraft holds are where suitcases should be, that's why aircraft have them.

[Davef68]

On a couple of occasions, I have been accidentally booked on 'cabin baggage only' and not realised until turning up with trolley case and my usual laptop bag (Usually, if on cabin only, I have a small bag that fits inside my trolley case).

Solution - buy something in the shopping centre that is now the departure lounge and ask for the biggest bag they have (Harrods ones are good!). Laptop bag then goes in the carrier!

[Harry Wayfarers]

When I emigrated from the UK on CX I was allowed 20kg of hold luggage, 7 or 10kg of hand luggage and a laptop bag.

My case weighed some 30kg, I got chatty with the check-in lady letting her know that I was industry staff so that got thru, they never weighed my hand baggage whilst they never specified how many laptops were allowed in one laptop bag ... I had 2 laptops in mine, they weighed a bl00dy ton :)

[RAT 5]

The lot of an airline passenger, 'normal pay for yourself class rather than tax-payer paid for your ticket class', is now becoming unbearable. Such simple things as luggage is making the whole affair beyond tolerance. And please don't just say, "obey the rules and all is OK". That is too simplistic. It is a customer service industry and all must make a profit, of course, but the base principles of service should not be neglected. The marketeers will no doubt disagree and the market rules, OK.
Just look down the list of airlines and their cabin bag regs. A couple of cm's here in width, a couple different there in length. A couple of kgs +/- here & there. It is a nightmare and it also occurs where it is the same type a/c, i.e. the same size internally. All baggage shops sell 'cabin size bags', but that is to true unless you take the smallest size. I heard, some years ago, of one lady who travelled from/to EMA. Problem was she went out with a LoCo and returned with BMI. BMI's cabin bag 5cm smaller in one dimension than the LoCo outbound. Bag removed and £25 charged for 'Hold baggage at the desk'. Madness, utter madness. At MAD they had a mettle template at the gate. It had open sides. The pax slipped their wheeled case into the template, but the wheel stick out of the side. The gate agent could not lift it straight out and wanted to charge for hold luggage. The student pax broke the wheels off the case in protest; in front of all the horrified pax. What a -ve advertisement.
Air rage starts on there ground. Why should an easy job be made difficult. By that I mean all the differences, which seem niggly & petty. There is no justification for a couple of m's difference. There is an ICAO standard. Use it. easy jet do, why not everyone else?