View Full Version : Sea Kings continue flying operations
minigundiplomat
27th Jul 2017, 15:46
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2017/july/26/170726-helicopters-return-to-cornwall-skies
Great to see the Sea Kings getting a second life.
Not sure how military aircraft leased to a commercial operator to train a third party works from a regulatory perspective though, but still good to see them back in the air.
I presume this would have to be conducted under CFAOS - interesting to do it with an aircraft that is no longer in service and wouldn't meet modern airworthiness standards.
Thomas coupling
27th Jul 2017, 18:29
What are they going to be doing J?
skadi
27th Jul 2017, 20:13
What are they going to be doing J?
Train new pilots for the German Navy.
skadi
he Ministry of Defence is returning two Sea King Mk5 aircraft to service Don't know if this is actually happening or if it is just someone's pipe-dream.
The aircraft are old and knackered (why they were taken out of service) and spares were a nightmare. Wonder how the SKPT and RTSA are packaging this up to get it cleared.
MRCOA usually takes civilian aircraft, gives them a mil reg and allows operation under Mil rules - leasing a mil aircraft with no civilian registration is surely a different kettle of fish altogether.
Can't be the cheapest solution to training a few German Navy SAR pilots.
bigglesbutler
28th Jul 2017, 00:45
The Indians have bought sea kings too its for them isn't it?
Spanish Waltzer
28th Jul 2017, 04:33
This is to be the new HeliOps gig out of Portland I assume? Seems a lot of costs and effort for 14 months. There must be more work to follow?
John Eacott
28th Jul 2017, 06:26
XV666: which started life as 144/826 NAS and with that new helicopter smell, straight from Westlands in August 1970!
http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/1289-1/826+Sea+King+pair+with+Wessex+forming+for+mass+fly+past+Sing apore.jpg
skadi
28th Jul 2017, 10:48
Can't be the cheapest solution to training a few German Navy SAR pilots.
But may be cheaper than getting the typerating on the few available german Seakings.
Skadi
TorqueOfTheDevil
28th Jul 2017, 11:47
The Indians have bought sea kings too its for them isn't it?
Separate activity I think - the Indians are rumoured to be taking several HAR3As and HC4s, which will also return to UK skies (briefly) before being sent east.
bigglesbutler
28th Jul 2017, 12:18
The only reason I ask was there was an email recently looking for crews in UK initially with ability to travel to Indian for several months.
Si
heli1
29th Jul 2017, 05:49
Hi...are you sure you're not mixing up India with Pakistan ,which HeliData showed last issue as taking two MK.3 and five MK.4 (two for spares). List of serials published too. The German training deal has been on the cards since last year .AgainHdata alerted this at the time,with a/c based at Portland. Both h/c at Culdrose at present under return to service maintenance.
And I think the 3As went to Norway - there were only ever 6 of those anyway.
Max Skylon
8th Aug 2017, 17:43
I hope as part of the operation they get to fly in Bournemouth direction. I would really like to see (and hear) a Sea King clattering overhead again ! Is it possible they will join joint exercises with the RNLI as the UK Coastguard currently do ?
Very much doubt that - sorry.
Thomas coupling
9th Aug 2017, 13:11
India.
Pakistan.
Norway.
Qatar.
German Navy.
Egypt.
Only one's left using Westland SeaKings. Pakistan mount exocet on theirs.
Duncan Bouquet
9th Aug 2017, 20:52
India.
Pakistan.
Norway.
Qatar.
German Navy.
Egypt.
Only one's left using Westland SeaKings. Pakistan mount exocet on theirs.
....and the Royal Navy......
Oh you mean this lot - Sea King MK7 | Royal Navy (http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/the-equipment/aircraft/helicopters/sea-king-mk7):ok:
Had to laugh at the headline top speed of 90Kts on the same page as 'the future, Queen Elizabeth Aircraft Carrier'. How will their shiny new toy cope with a leaky Sea King dropping, fuel, hyds and gearbox oil on it?
tucumseh
10th Aug 2017, 14:14
She might be old and leaky, but she does what it says on the tin, which is a hell of a lot more than the RN even dreamed of. However, I won't get involved in the inter-service banter arising from the RN's assertion in 2001 that she was "two generations ahead of AWACS". I'd have said three. :ok:
Max Skylon
11th Aug 2017, 13:29
I spotted a grey & red Sea King flying east along the Bournemouth Eastcliff about 10:30 this morning. Is this just a coincidence ?
Ian Corrigible
11th Aug 2017, 14:34
India.
Pakistan.
Norway.
Qatar.
German Navy.
Egypt.
Only one's left using Westland SeaKings. Pakistan mount exocet on theirs.
....and the Royal Navy......
...and the Belgium Air Component...
Belgian Ministry of Defence: Westland Sea King Mk 48 (http://www.mil.be/nl/materiaal/westland-sea-king-mk-48)
Interesting prioritization of the SK's SAR role in Belgian service:
To get drunkards
To carry out burns patients
To assist ships in difficulty
Detecting missing and surveillance missions from the coastline
:E
I/C
Self loading bear
11th Aug 2017, 15:37
...
To get drunkards
To carry out burns patients
To assist ships in difficulty
Detecting missing and surveillance missions from the coastline
:E
I/C
Ian
I assume poor Google translate?
But I like it!
Who said that computers have no humour?
Drenkeling = drowning man
Dronkaard = Drunkard
Cheers SLB
Ian Corrigible
11th Aug 2017, 17:28
SLB,
Yes, a Google translate (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mil.be%2Fnl%2Fmateriaal%2Fwestland-sea-king-mk-48).
Thanks for the explanation; I'd stereotypically pictured a guy trying to paddle across the Channel after one too many Westmalle Tripels...
I/C
heli1
11th Aug 2017, 20:25
Max Skylon...Your Sea King was heading to Vector Aerospace for repainting into HeliOperations colour scheme.
....and SeaKing ASAC 7s wil not be based on carrier but on support vessels as I understand it.
goffered again
11th Aug 2017, 21:57
Had to laugh at the headline top speed of 90Kts on the same page as 'the future, Queen Elizabeth Aircraft Carrier'. How will their shiny new toy cope with a leaky Sea King dropping, fuel, hyds and gearbox oil on it?
It's a novel idea for your ilk I know, but they are proffessionals, they will clean it up the same as they always did.
Fareastdriver
12th Aug 2017, 07:45
dropping, fuel, hyds and gearbox oil on it
One of the first things you notice in the transition from military to civilian aviation.
They are always clean and they don't leak oil.
tucumseh
12th Aug 2017, 09:07
In the mid-80s there was a spate of Sea King HAS Mk5 radar control set failures. (RAF - you had something similar, the box at head height with lots of black knobs). It transpired that someone with good intentions had put masking tape along the inner seams to stop oil, which dripped (poured) down from the MGB drip tray onto the LRU, then leaking out through ventilation grills onto the consoles/PPI display. Ventilation/cooling is usually quite important in avionics. CRSs were being removed with an inch of oil in them, cooked to perfection.
Max Skylon
14th Aug 2017, 10:07
Max Skylon...Your Sea King was heading to Vector Aerospace for repainting into HeliOperations colour scheme.
Thanks Heli1, I will keep an eye to the sky for it's return !
Max Skylon
5th Dec 2017, 19:16
Sorry to re-open an old thread but, having sighted a Westland Sea King Mk.5 four times in the last two weeks from the Bournemouth Eastcliff, I was wondering if anyone has an update on the HeliOps contract. I did read that there was a little 'local difficulty' with the coucil over the lease of the operating base at Portland at the start - I assume this was resolved !
NavyTorque
18th Jan 2018, 23:41
HeliOps don’t lease the hangar, dispersal or runway.... they own it!
Planning issues were overcome as one of the many challenges facing the HeliOps team...... Weymouth Council have now accepted that HeliOps is lawfully using the site and that they now agree agree with Steve G’s Barrister..... and have issued a Certificate if Lawful use as a helicopter operating and maintenance facility with no restrictions.
Looking forward to seeing more military types operating out of Portland!
Well done HeliOps
Have they got CFAOS approval?
Sumpor Stylee
20th Jan 2018, 08:48
Have they got CFAOS approval?
Just ask NavyTorque, his level of knowledge and detail of heliops/devassets related issues going back many years is indicative of integral position held.
Sloppy Link
20th Jan 2018, 11:54
A question designed to do nothing but cause mischief.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/674702/MAA_Approved_Organizations.pdf
That was difficult, come on crab, you're better than that.
...and the Belgium Air Component...
Belgian Ministry of Defence: Westland Sea King Mk 48 (http://www.mil.be/nl/materiaal/westland-sea-king-mk-48)
Well, since all 4 NH90 NFH heli's are grounded, 3 undergoing repairs for the next year or so and 1 in scheduled maintenace, the good old Sea King will again be Belgium's primary SAR asset for many months to come https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/categorie/4/militair/nh-90s-belgische-marine-mogelijk-anderhalf-jaar-aan-de-grond (dutch only)
A question designed to do nothing but cause mischief. Not at all - it was a genuine question since I know it would be required for such an operation and also that it takes a good while to get it.
Are they an ATO as well?
Sloppy Link
20th Jan 2018, 18:09
Wouldn't have thought so, one regulator and all that. I'm not going to do your research for you again, if it bothers you, you can find out and let us know.
What a warm and friendly tone your posts have - a little ray of sunshine.
I'm still interested to know how an aircraft that has been taken out of service (mks 3, 4 and 5) because they were all knackered and had a shortage of spares has been brought back as airworthy for the purposes of what is a commercial operation.
Love to see the Release to Service:ok:
Someone in the MAA has oversight of this and is 'taking the risk' - senior Navy officer perchance?
Someone is the DDH and ODH for this operation under CFAOS.
Thud_and_Blunder
21st Jan 2018, 16:12
Without wanting to join the apparently-ill-tempered part of the thread, could/would someone answer an idly-curious question please?
I was operating along the ridge above Portsmouth about 6 weeks ago, monitoring Fleetlands as I left Solent's area, when I saw what appeared to my tired old eyes a Mk3a going into whatever they call the RNAY these days. No squawk observed; the nice person at Fleetlands said they transit on one radio only, no avionics. As mentioned above, I'm only being inquisitive - what are the ex-RAF SKs being used or flown for?
Sumpor Stylee
21st Jan 2018, 17:45
Being sold to Pakistan and flown most likely by their military pilots. A collection of mk3/4’s as a package.
SuperF
21st Jan 2018, 18:37
I'm still interested to know how an aircraft that has been taken out of service (mks 3, 4 and 5) because they were all knackered and had a shortage of spares has been brought back as airworthy for the purposes of what is a commercial operation.
Love to see the Release to Service:ok:
Just remember that every year Hueys are being retired from the military due to being knackered, and being unable to procure spares, and yet there are hundreds of them flying commercially every day of the year. Sometimes it could pay the military guys to go visit the civvys and ask how they do things, or where they buy parts from.
True, but you don't have the Military Airworthiness Authority to contend with - an enormous new construct (or relatively new) that is so risk averse it would make your eyes bleed.:ok:
SuperF
22nd Jan 2018, 03:05
lol, yeah fair enough. you have to wonder what they are going to do next time that someone actually gets shot in a war!!
Thud_and_Blunder
22nd Jan 2018, 19:09
Thank you, Sumpor :)
Boessie
22nd Jan 2018, 21:59
@Crab
Under CFAOS you are not required to have an RTS, the main document is the Certificate of Usage, which refers to all required operational and safety documents. Also there is no ODH/DDH, the civilian organisation has an Accountable Manager Military Flying AM(MF), who is the equivalent of the ODH/DDH.
SASless
23rd Jan 2018, 00:51
Speaking of Huey's....one outfit in Washington State that rebuilds, over hauls, and restoration work on them has about 20 of them for sale right now and more building it appears. It has one batch of 17 from a single source.
There is life in the old girls still especially if modernized with good avionics, upgraded engines, tail boom mods, and better blades.
Northwest Helicopters is the name of the company in Olympia.
That is where Huey 509 based in Wesham came from.
Boessi - thanks for the clarification of terms but the same factors are valid, the aircraft has to be airworthy and someone has to take the risk.
The Sea Kings were taken out of service partly because of the of the costs in manpower and spares in keeping them serviceable and, unless they have undergone a Carson style rebuild, they are they same rattly, leaky, ancient machines that I know and love but am quite happy not to be flying (especially in an overwater role) any more.
VRS failure at night in the hover/dip anyone?:ok: