easyJet Europe.. Any info on how employment/contracts would work?

[gbotley]

As a trainee pilot mid-way through my course at one of EZY's feeder schools, the recent announcement of a new EZY AOC provides me with both relief and anxiety.

I say the former for the fact it both safeguards one of Europe's largest airlines from the bite of Brexit and also provides some security for those already working at the airline.

I say the latter as I, like many others, am now unsure of what this could mean for employability prospects at the carrier. Does anybody on PPRuNE have any internal insight into what this could mean because as I understand it employees will be transferred to new contracts under the new organisation. If my understanding is therefore correct one can hope it not end up like EZY Swiss whereby an individual requires links to the registered nation to seek employment. What's more, it's slightly more worrisome as a British national because this change has more of an impact on me than some of my French / German peers whom fit the "Right to work in the EU" bracket.

It would be great if someone could shed some light on it. I'm due to finish my course March 2018 so fingers crossed I avoid any of the true impact of employment rights stuff.

Thanks in advance chaps/ladies.

[Daysleeper]

EU nationals to retain rights to work in the UK, while Brits can only work in ONE EU country....
So lets keep freedom of movement of workers?

[Arewerunning]

I thought UK was ONE COUNTRY...(sorry Scotland and Wales)

[ManUtd1999]

The way I see it is there are two linked but separate issues here:

1) Will UK citizens have the right to work in the EU post-Brexit.

Unfortunately nobody knows how this will play out, current negotiations seem fixed around current expats. If Britain insists on an end to free movement then I would expect the EU to do the same. Pilots may then require visas and 'EZY Europe' would be restricted to hiring mostly EU pilots. Even if visas were easy to obtain then you could imagine a strong preference for EU candidates being put in place.

2) Will EZY base transfers be possible between 'EZY UK' and 'EZY Europe'?

At least in the short term this is unaffected by Brexit and has maybe been talked about internally? At present I understand that moving UK-France/Italy etc is relatively straight-forward (if there's space) but moving UK-Switzerland is rarer and more complex as it's a separate legal company. If the new 'EZY Europe' operates like 'EZY Swiss' then placements in the continental bases for cadets and experienced pilots alike might become less common.

In summary, lots of ifs buts and maybes :) I personally can't see how EZY's new European entitity is going to be a positive for their UK pilot recruitment but I hope to be proved wrong.

[Denti]

Dunno about brits in other countries, those in my company are currently getting their german citizenship, which is a quite simple affair as they are still EU citizens. And dual citizenship is no problem as the UK allows that as well. With that it wouldn't be a problem to keep working wherever you are, whole EU or the UK.

[lederhosen]

Denti that may be because they have already lived in Germany long enough to meet the residence requirements. A quick scan of the internet suggests that most countries require you to have lived there for a number of years (Austria apparently 10) before applying for citizenship. There does seem to be some doubt as to how Brexit will affect britons in this situation.

[EVS1]

So now that easyjet has this new AOC in Austria, will they still ask to convert the licence to UK?
For easyjet pilots based in Spain, France or Italy for example?

[kungfu panda]

The future for British Pilots in Easyjet and other British Airlines is far more uncertain than is suggested by the optimistic posts above. Until there is a deal, no deal still being very possible, it looks likely that the UK will drop out of the transportation agreement. The repercussions of that situation would probably be very serious as scheduled flights from the UK into Europe would be subject to bilateral agreements and opposed vehemently by foreign flag carriers and Ryanair. I also don't see airlines lifting the right to live and work in the EU as being an prerequisite to most LCC jobs.

I understand that bilateral agreements work both ways but there will be long term vehement legal opposition from parties such as Air France, Lufthansa etc who already have their bilateral in place and who would have a great opportunity to restrict opposition.

[Binder]

Most if not all licenses are now EASA so no change required...

Also terms and conditions for Euro crews not expected to change but no doubt pilot rep groups will keep a close eye on Company shenanigans!

[EAM]

Well, easyjet asks you to convert your license into a UK license, which is a problem if you hold a german license.
And having an EASA license doesn´t mean that every TRE can sign your license, in fact it was easier before.

[lederhosen]

The only thing that is clear is that the situation post Brexit remains very unclear. The astonishing thing is how many people directly affected by it voted in favour of leaving. The exchange rate trend of the pound seems a pretty good reflection on the direction things are moving.

[monkey.tennis]

EasyJet Europe will be no different to the current set up. There will be various EU bases on local terms and conditions. Almost nothing will change, except the aircraft will be Austrian registered rather than UK.

Post brexit, easyJet is in exactly the same position as every other airline flying EU to UK routes.

[gbotley]

The future for British Pilots in Easyjet and other British Airlines is far more uncertain than is suggested by the optimistic posts above. Until there is a deal, no deal still being very possible, it looks likely that the UK will drop out of the transportation agreement. The repercussions of that situation would probably be very serious as scheduled flights from the UK into Europe would be subject to bilateral agreements and opposed vehemently by foreign flag carriers and Ryanair. I also don't see airlines lifting the right to live and work in the EU as being an prerequisite to most LCC jobs.

I understand that bilateral agreements work both ways but there will be long term vehement legal opposition from parties such as Air France, Lufthansa etc who already have their bilateral in place and who would have a great opportunity to restrict opposition.

Valid points, but aren't all EU states a party of the bilateral ICAO Convention to which the freedoms of the air must then apply? In such a case easyJet UK flying into Europe and say, Wizz Air flying into the UK would be permitted. The concern comes with EU to EU domestic operations from a non-EU carrier to which easyJet Europe's new AOC bypasses with supposed "Cabotage" being allowed to continue? Your point on a ban on British carriers entry into the European Union would be unlawful by these rules unless i'm unaware of something here - feel free to say.

But nevertheless, this point is off topic. The topic relates to employability of Brits with the new setup. I've since heard publicly and privately from around five crew members to say things appear to be remaining the same - for now at least. Of course, easyJet is only one carrier to which a newly qualified pilot could apply to and many of the remaining are not as badly affected. It's an interesting point to bring up nonetheless.

[kungfu panda]

EasyJet Europe will be no different to the current set up. There will be various EU bases on local terms and conditions. Almost nothing will change, except the aircraft will be Austrian registered rather than UK.

Post brexit, easyJet is in exactly the same position as every other airline flying EU to UK routes.

Sorry but there's a lot of ignorance around. If Britain is not party to the transportation agreement then operation between the UK and Europe or Europe to the UK is not possible with scheduled flights on day one post brexit (except where bilateral agreements previously existed i.e the flag carriers). Bilateral route agreements will need to be made and as I said previously, they would be legally opposed by European Airlines.

[kungfu panda]

Valid points, but aren't all EU states a party of the bilateral ICAO Convention to which the freedoms of the air must then apply? In such a case easyJet UK flying into Europe and say, Wizz Air flying into the UK would be permitted. The concern comes with EU to EU domestic operations from a non-EU carrier to which easyJet Europe's new AOC bypasses with supposed "Cabotage" being allowed to continue. Your point on a ban on British carriers entry into the European Union would be unlawful by these rules.

Of course that's just my two cents and I appreciate i'm a only a trainee but air law is perhaps more fresh in my mind than some on here.

Unfortunately you are not correct. Our current right to operate from the UK to EU airports are governed by the EU Transportation agreement and have nothing to do with ICAO. ICAO will allow us overflight rights, I believe under the Chicago convention but no landing rights.

Unless we remain signed up to the ECJ, which is a red line no (for the current government), then we must leave the transportation agreement.

[gbotley]

Then in that case I would happily stand corrected - perhaps they should teach that in Air Law then eh! Do you have any links on the Transportation Agreement in question.. would be interested to take a look. It's at times like this I wish I held another European citizenship. It continues to amaze me how so many in this very industry voted leave.

[Skyjob]

Michel Barnier's idea of a"gold plated offer" is for EU nationals to retain rights to work in the UK, while Brits can only work in ONE EU country where they happen to already be resident. So EU pilots continue to occupy UK based jobs, while Brits are barred from Europe.

Think a little bit of realism is required by this author, you see:
1) UK opts to go out of EU;
1.1) UK opts to get out of free movement of people;
1.2) UK opts to get out of rights to work in all EU countries;
1.3) UK opts to prevent EU citizens taking UK jobs;
1.4) UK wants to retain rights for UK citizens to take EU jobs and move inside EU(?);
2) UK allows EU nationals to stay in UK jobs already employed;
2.1) UK does not allow new EU nationals to move to UK for jobs;
3) EU allows UK nationals to stay in EU jobs already employed;
3.1) EU does not allow new UK nationals to move to EU for jobs;
3.1.1) This includes moving between EU countries as that is what EU stands for;

I personally can't see the problem being an EU national that movement between countries for UK citizens in future is restricted, after all UK wants to get out of EU for restricting reciprocal movements into UK by EU nationals.

Let's remember that existing citizens working in EU/UK are not affected.
Looks like UK want to get out of EU but reap benefits of EU membership.
Why should UK citizens bear benefits of EU when UK is not wanting to be part of EU anymore?

[Skyjob]

I did.
- It does NOT say Brits cannot work in the ONE EU country they are already in, it just says they cannot move to another.
- Nor does it say EU nationals are allowed to move into UK, just that they retain their right to stay if already in UK.

Same rule no problem, but why should EU allow UK nationals to move throughout EU like currently possible when EU nationals will not be allowed to move into UK as that is what Brexit was all about, protecting UK jobs for UK people...

[gbotley]

In such a situation presumably visas would become the new norm?

[ManUtd1999]

I expect so. For UK nationals, any chance of working for EZY Europe hinges on how easy it is to get one. Maybe they'll make it simple (especially if it's essentially a transfer within the same overall company), maybe they won't. Maybe there'll be new rules about only working in an industry where they are short of qualified locals, speaking the language, or having a family connection.Nobody knows as yet.

[kungfu panda]

You guys voted for an end to the free movement of labour.:rolleyes:

[ManUtd1999]

I didn't But I get your point, if Britain decides to put up barriers to EU citizens working here then we can expect the same treatment.

[kungfu panda]

I didn't But I get your point, if Britain decides to put up barriers to EU citizens working here then we can expect the same treatment.

In reality, Brexit would actually be too much of a shock to Britain for it to bear. We are now talking of long term transition which will lead to more elections and therefore changes in politicians. Expect the status quo in the end.

[gbotley]

In reality, Brexit would actually be too much of a shock to Britain for it to bear. We are now talking of long term transition which will lead to more elections and therefore changes in politicians. Expect the status quo in the end.

I believe that's something we're all very aware of otherwise this very thread wouldn't exist. I dispatched a fair few flights during the run up to the referendum and I can't imagine those cockpit environment were the greatest as many of the crew had hugely varying opinions on the matter.

I personally hope to be in the RHS prior to the 2019 deadline but even then job security may well be lackluster. I can certainly foresee redundancies if things turn sour between the both parties of the negotiations but then again, I'm being incredibly pessimistic. Understandable though given BBVA don't give a toss about Brexit either way and would still want their money. If I were to be given the opportunity to re-commence training in the current circumstance i'm not sure I would - unless I had EU state citizenship

[kungfu panda]

I believe that's something we're all very aware of otherwise this very thread wouldn't exist. I dispatched a fair few flights during the run up to the referendum and I can't imagine those cockpit environment were the greatest as many of the crew had hugely varying opinions on the matter.

Ryanair pushes for Brexit deal to prevent disruption (http://news.sky.com/story/ryanair-warns-brexit-may-lead-to-flight-cancellations-10959501)

Scaremongering? maybe but after 4 months post article 50 we've not got negotiations beyond the first question. The British government seems more keen on agreeing to import chlorinated Chickens from the US than to get a deal with Europe that will save the British Airline industry.

[JaxofMarlow]

You guys voted for an end to the free movement of labour.:rolleyes:

I most certainly didn't either. The maddest thing we have ever done. We are in a no win place now with Europe knowing we are screwed if a favourable deal is out of reach and because of this it will be. My bet is another referendum within the next two years and hopefully this time both sides would be compelled to tell the truth. All would have been avoided if Cameron had managed to get even a modest control over Eastern European immigration when he came cap in hand. Aviation will survive either way but intra Europe operations by UK airlines will present a challenge.

[kungfu panda]

Yes but you didn't think that all the British banks would go Bankrupt in 2008 but effectively they did.

These problems that we set up are systemic, no individual person or government can control the situation, even if it's beneficial to both sides to do so.

[JaxofMarlow]

The British Banks, led by RBS, went bust because of intrenched stupidity, corruption, greed and arrogance in collusion with a government that was busy doing the same with the national economy.

[kungfu panda]

Yes and this time British Airlines will go bust because of a Brexit vote, bilateral agreements supposed to replace the current transportion agreement for the UK-EU being delayed or failing because of legal opposition from European flag carriers (who already have bilateral agreements in place, dating from pre-transportaion agreement).

I don't expect this to happen but I believe it to be a risk. I think British airlines will be protected by what in the end will become an indefinite transition period.