Training bonds

[bouncer85]

I would like to hear other people's experiences about training bonds with UK airlines.
Has anyone walked away from an empoyer and taken a job with another airline while still bonded to the original employer/airline?
If so what was the outcome?
Did you pay the bond or refuse to pay it?
In either case- what was the outcome?

[parabellum]

Walking away from a training bond without either paying it off or, at least, trying to negotiate a payment plan is certain death in the commercial aviation world. What you will do to one company you will quite probably do to another. A training bond is a simple contract that you have signed, walking away would be a breach of that contract and an employer could pursue you for settlement, that alone would incur considerable legal costs.


If you want out go and talk to your present employer. Work out a payment plan. Your new employer won't be very chuffed when/if they find out you broke a training bond and your present employer may just tell them! Chief pilots do talk to each other. ;)

[macdo]

Done this one. Left a commuter airline shortly after being bonded onto a new type. Was told that no reference would be issued if bond not re-paid.
I was happy to repay the bond as the uplift to pay in the new airline covered the bond in six months anyway.
No reference=no next job. Its almost like wrecking your credit history.

[IcePack]

At some point I hope a rich person will take on the bond maker. What other profession effectively blackmails you. As for the original signing of the bond, well again would a jury find against you,when no sign = no job.
I have a colleague who was converted into a new type & never got asked so never signed a bond. However on leaving for a better job he got a bill. So said I have no bond. The reply was no pay no reference so no airside pass. Obviously imho he would have won a court case but by then his new cream job would have passed him by.

[squeaker]

Don't think many companies give references any more. They will usually just confirm person a worked here between x and y dates, full stop.
If they won't even do that, you can prove it with pay slips anyway.
I don't see how a bond can be legally enforceable if you have not agreed to it in a contract and it wasn't made clear to you that a bond would exist when you started training.

[macdo]

Personally, I never had a problem with the bond system when it was done for a sensible amount and reduced on a monthly basis to zero. I have had 3 bonds, 2 for 2 years and one for 3 years, all with no money up front. It seemed fair that in return for the investment in me, I should commit to stay with the airline for them to get a reasonable return on that investment. Unfortunately, the advent of PTF and buying type ratings put an end to what had been regarded as reasonable quid pro quo.
Plenty of other industries have copied aviation, they just call it unpaid internship, or as I call it modern day slavery.

[jayteeto]

Who is morally right or wrong is irrelevant. If companies think that bonds are not legal, they will start charging you for type ratings. That is far worse. Show a bit of loyalty if someone gives you an opportunity. I am comfortable in a well paid helicopter job, but I want to fly airlines. I'm licenced, have 8k hours and a military background, but I can't raise the money to upfront a TR. I would bond for 5 years if someone would offer it. It's ok to criticise people who P2F or offer themselves on a plate when YOU are already in. Principles don't pay the mortgage

[slowjet]

BOUNCER85 : Parabellum is correct. Sign a bond, actually, I have a feeling that even a verbal agreement would be enforceable, and you are contracted to comply. I am not convinced that it is certain death but you might find yourself pursued and it might cost you dearly, not only in hard cash but in severe reputation damage.


Way back in the glory days, we did it to ourselves. Because airlines started to prefer "Type "rated , of course, Dudes went and got the type rating wherever and however it took. They then "jumped ship", literally in some cases, and took the valuable type rating with them. That's the airlines fault for preferring type rated people. Of course, we, the Dudes, will re-act and go after a type rating.


SQ squared up brilliantly, for example and started the move towards Training Bonds and even Employment bonds. Couple of people jumped ship but were successfully pursued by SQ for loadsa dosh and publicity to the bad guys who, probably never recovered.


What you might be contemplating is seriously risky. Basic message you are getting from others too is ; DON'T.

[Kelly Hopper]

There are bonds and there are bonds?...

3 examples in my experience...

Employer fronts up the cost of the type rating and then clawed it back in 24 monthly deductions from my wage.

Corporate owner pays for the rating with a 2 year bond but through the management company that obviously jacked up the cost to him. After 2 years you are kicked out to be replaced by another non rated guy to do the same. :*

Owner pays for the rating and you sign a 2 year non decreasing bond! So after 23 months you still owe the full cost of the rating.

Whilst I would never condone anyone jumping a bond (it just makes it all more difficult for all of us) it is not a one way street. Plenty of employers are not playing the game either.

[DCThumb]

How about 'Private owner buys new aircraft type, wants to bond existing pilots for new rating' - where does that fit? In industry, if the ACME widget company buys a new widget making machine, the employees wouldn't be bonded for training on the new machine.

[Heathrow Harry]

"if the ACME widget company buys a new widget making machine, the employees wouldn't
be bonded for training on the new machine."

they would if it cost US$ 50k........................

Quite a few Governments "bond" people like doctors or other professionals - they pay them through college and training and they have to do x years in country - not unusual

[macdo]

Shame the UK doesn't do this. Would stop quite a few doctors from jumping ship to sunny climes after 7 years of government funded training. Perhaps we could then stop denuding the 3rd. world of their desperately needed medical staff!

[Offchocks]

If you sign a bond you should honour it unless the company is too terrible to work for.
I payed out a non reducing bond to go from a turbo prop to my first jet and the CP was happy. The same CP ten years later gave me a great reference when I moved to my next airline where I retired 27 years later.

[parabellum]

I don't see how a bond can be legally enforceable if you have not agreed to it in a contract and it wasn't made clear to you that a bond would exist when you started training.
I would agree with that, but I doubt you would get as far as the simulator/ aircraft training without being made fully aware that a bond applied and if you didn't agree to it the training would stop there. If the company are also getting rid of the type you are rated on and you choose not to sign the bond for a new type you would, effectively, be giving yourself your notice.

[+TSRA]

In industry, if the ACME widget company buys a new widget making machine, the employees wouldn't be bonded for training on the new machine.

Perhaps not the current employees, although this has not stopped one company I worked for.

Any new employee would be bonded within the T&C's of the contract much as the current employees would have been when they started.

I don't see how a bond can be legally enforceable if you have not agreed to it in a contract and it wasn't made clear to you that a bond would exist when you started training.

In the two cases where I have been bonded the requirements of the bond were clearly explained in the contract, which was required to be signed prior to the commencement of ANY training.

[Dan Winterland]

One company made me redundant and asked me to repay the bond!

Guess what the answer was?