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SASless
15th Jul 2017, 12:01
There are Rules, Regulations, and other strictures that apply to our everyday business of flying Helicopters.

I used a simple one.... "Ass, Tin, Ticket!".

How about you....any personal Golden Rules?






https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19959076_1491310440891928_856292927806524441_n.jpg?oh=299805 bf579395f2206a9fd6ee14d344&oe=59FDBF68

Non-PC Plod
15th Jul 2017, 12:25
"Share not thy cockpit with a d**khead, for he shall lead you into the valley of the shadow of death in crap weather!"

500 Fan
15th Jul 2017, 12:36
"Share not thy cockpit with a d**khead, for he shall lead you into the valley of the shadow of death in crap weather!"

I think No.8 covers that!:ok:

500 Fan,

Nigerian Expat Outlaw
15th Jul 2017, 13:14
One I had on the North Sea was "Automated aircraft can be flown like any other aircraft".

It was too easy to rely on the clever systems and then when they didn't do what people expected or malfunctioned pilots were reluctant to disengage them and hand fly.

NEO

Sir Niall Dementia
15th Jul 2017, 13:54
If something hasn't broken or gone wrong;
its' about to.:\

SND

SASless
15th Jul 2017, 14:04
Helicopter Pilots live by Rotor RPM....too much will scare you....too little will kill you.




When walking near Helicopters....Tail Rotors will straight up kill you!

15th Jul 2017, 16:23
When more than 3 items go u/s on start - perhaps someone is trying to tell you not to go.

Non-PC Plod
15th Jul 2017, 20:20
500 Fan - not quite! Let me clarify:
Even though thou art an IFR sky god, if the d***head signeth for the rotorcraft as captain, and desireth to fly at 500 ft above the firmament INCAS whilst the firmament is not visible, verily wilt thy ringpiece twitch. And shalt thou not fly with said d***head again.

RVDT
15th Jul 2017, 21:34
As previously quoted by "SASLESS" (I think) -

The only time you have too much fuel is when you are on fire!

NickLappos
15th Jul 2017, 21:36
I wrote this a few years back, it uses less oldeth English but tells what the ten best rules to handle an emergency are:

One – fly the aircraft, do not let it fly you. A crippled aircraft is still an aircraft and more than ever needs a pilot. Assess the situation take charge and choose the most favorable outcome. Taking charge of the aircraft means continuing to fly while your brain enters another zone to solve the mystery before your eyes. Doing to or three critical procedures at once might be necessary, but if you find yourself unable to multitask, then just do one thing well, fly your aircraft. A note on emergency procedure diagnostics: try to conduct your training to teach you to read emergencies from the bottom up, stating the symptoms and deducing the cause. Reading emergencies from the bottom up, from the indications to the root cause of the event is good training for your mind, and is the opposite of the way we normally discuss emergencies. When we discuss procedures with our friends, we normally say, “hydraulic system number one failure” and then proceed to explain what to do. In the real rough-and-tumble, our aircraft is much more insidious. It hands us vibrations, lurches, some caution lights, and from this disassociated set of indications we are expected to figure it all out. It is amazing how confusing a set of caution lights vibrations and wiggling controls can be, especially immediately after a shot of adrenaline enters your bloodstream. This is one of the reasons why simulators are so effective, but even hanger talk can be rearranged to be more effective. When you discuss emergencies, do so from the bottom up, listing the indications and deducing the problem. The best way is with the simulator or piloting software, another way is a set of flash cards that list the indications, and another way yet is to have a buddy quiz you. One time during an intensive training program in a large multi-engined helicopter, I prepared a stack drawings of the cockpit with the gauges, cautions and warnings penciled in. On each page I recorded the consistent readings for a single emergency. I had a clip installed the cockpit so that I could mount these pages individually, and surprise the trainees with a mini simulation that illustrated a budding emergency. It was amazing to see how trainee pilots who were wonderful at reciting flight manual emergency procedures suddenly come unglued when they had to figure it out for themselves. It took a few hours for them to settle down and learn to think about the clues that they saw while flying.

Two – always maintain rotor rpm. The collective pitch is the rotor rpm adjuster, and the rotor tachometer is your only best friend. It seems redundant to say that without rotor rpm nothing else in the cockpit is important. When rotor rpm begins to be untrustworthy is when there is too little or too much power. Both of these situations are cured by adjusting the collective pitch. So the first universal emergency procedure is to know whether the rotor rpm is going down or coming up and the first universal emergency cure is adjusting the collective to keep the rotor rpm in the green.

When an engine fails and power is lost the solution is simple, reduce the collective pitch to keep the rotor happy. If you've lost your only engine, putting the collective all the way down is probably a good start. For a twin, reducing collective a bit to keep rotor in the green is generally a good idea, if for no other reason than it prevents the remaining healthy engine from over-torquing. I would strongly suggest that you do not grab engine levers or throttles, at least not initially. Almost anything you do with the throttle at this point is wrong, or at least unnecessary. If the engine has quit, the throttle is not going to give you back power. In a twin, if you have the wrong throttle in your hands you are going to ruin the rest of your week. It is unfortunate that many times crews will hasten to perform the emergency cleanup checklist when airmanship is called for. Emergency checklists are often cleanup items after an engine failure has been satisfactorily handled. Initial actions such as adjusting the collective pitch to maintain rotor in the green are paramount. Then comes establishing a successful glide or, in a twin, establishing a solid climb on the remaining engine. After the pilot has successfully guided his aircraft into the new regime of flight, adjusting throttles and attempted restarts are fine procedures. A failed engine has taken itself out of the equation, and deserves no immediate attention until the rest of the aircraft is made happy.
For turbine helicopters, pilots train for and think about high side governor failures that pour power into the rotor. These events are relatively rare, and should be handled by pulling up collective to contain the RPM. A number of twin engined helicopters have been destroyed by crews who mistake a reduction of power in one engine for an increase in power in the other, that is they mistake an engine failure for a high side governor failure. For these unfortunates, shutting down the remaining healthy engine has led to extremely quiet cockpits, and autorotations. It is very embarrassing to shut down your remaining healthy engine and carry it, cold, to the scene of the accident.

How do we avoid confusion? The clues are right before our eyes: if the rotor rpm has gone up we have more power, and if the rotor rpm goes down we've lost power. Many times flight crews will become mesmerized by the torque split an attempt to diagnose without looking at the rotor rpm. Since the rotor rpm is our very best friend, look at it first.
Regarding high side governor failures, they are fairly rare and they present us with a unique situation – too much power. Just like being too rich or too thin, too much power is seldom a bad thing, so raise the collective pitch, absorb the power and climb, and for a few seconds don't worry very much about a transmission over torque. In the climb, study the situation, and identify the overpowering engine. When things have stabilized in the that climb, have your copilot grasp the offending engine control, confirm it is the correct one, reconfirm it, and then slowly pull it back while confirming that over torque is being cured. This can take many seconds, there is no reason to start snapping controls in the cockpit.

Three – maintain your altitude, it is your second best friend. There will be many times when the loss of a few hundred feet is not meaningful, but these times are overshadowed by the few times where the loss of altitude is irreparable and the ability to clear a mountain pass was squandered in the first few seconds of the emergency. It is an old test pilots saying that the only time can have too much altitude is when you're on fire. This also means that struggling to maintain altitude, or minimizing your rate of descent is a big deal once you have the rotor under control. Since altitude is your friend it's quite possible that best rate of climb speed is a great place to be, so in an emergency establishing a climb and reducing speed to somewhere below the Max might help maintain altitude. One circumstance where reducing altitude might be wise is when preparing to make an immediate landing. Under such circumstances descending down to a few hundred feet above the water or terrain and prepare yourself for landing should the situation get worse can be a very wise move.

Four – maintain your airspeed. Avoid slowing down below best climb speed unless absolutely necessary. Airspeed and altitude go hand-in-hand, so that in an emergency is often a good idea to slow to somewhere between best range and best rate of climb speed while you sort things out. This will mean that any altitude losses are minimized and also that you're in the best position to make an autorotation should be necessary. Many times pilots will wisely trade airspeed for altitude while they sort things out. It might be wise to hold some power while you decelerate and get a few hundred feet of altitude as you cash in the difference between cruise speed and best rate of climb. This extra altitude can be important in maintaining your visibility for selecting landing sites, extending your glide should you need to autorotate, and maintaining a longer radio range should you need to contact authorities in that last emergency call.

Five – keep your hands away from throttles, fuel, and hydraulics, until the situation is so stable you are getting bored. If your copilot goes near these controls, take charge. The first few seconds of an emergency are the time to stabilize the aircraft and its flight situation and begin the diagnostics. It is the wrong time to start performing hasty operations on critical systems. The ghostly silence that fills the cockpit when an engine failure is followed by a mistaken engine shutdown is straight out of an Alfred Hitchcock movie. It's doubly damning when you realize that there is no reason to grab an engine lever immediately after an engine failure. The lever you should eventually want to grab is connected to a dead engine and is a really no use you at all. The lever next to it is connected to the running engine, and is your life's blood. It would be wise to stay away from it while you sort out the rest of the aircraft. The only time when throttles should be rapidly closed is to cure a tail rotor failure, and those occur so infrequently that they hardly need to be discussed.
Adjusting fuel, hydraulics, electricals, and the like should be done deliberately and after consultation and cross check with your copilot.

Six – plan your landing carefully. You might not get a second chance. As you settle down after the emergency procedure cleanup, consider where and when to land. Extended flight is hardly recommended after serious emergencies, but flying a few more miles past the golf course to an airport with fire and rescue services might be a wise investment in time. In any case the three segments of your emergency the initial reaction, the diagnosis, and the flight home should all be carefully considered.

Seven – use your checklist as a tool, but beware of nonstandard or compound emergencies. Use checklists wisely, they are quality control items to be sure you don't leave something out but they do not replace thinking. It is usually best to avoid opening the checklist on till you've finished the diagnostic stage and know where to look for the detailed procedure. Checklists can block cockpit decisions, because the checklist can fill your workload at a time when you should be thinking. It is interesting to note that many of the airline emergencies that fail are the result of the crew applying a checklist procedure to a very nonstandard emergency. For example, the DC 10 accident in Chicago a few decades ago resulted when an engine fell off, and the crew lost control of the aircraft. By following the checklist, they slowed to best rate of climb speed while climbing at several thousands per minute. In post accident simulations, the crews who survived this emergency were those who noted that slowing down corresponded with a loss of lateral control, and they survived when they stopped following the checklist and simply flew their aircraft. The second example is an airliner that took off from Washington DC with iced engine probes that caused their power gauges to read very high. Their sluggish aircraft, which was actually at half power, barely climbed and ended up striking the bridge a short way past the runway. What would the cost have been to have advanced the throttles enough to climb decently, risked engine over boost but climb successfully? Here as well the crew obeyed procedures, and failed to cure the problem.
This is not advocating ignoring the checklists, it is advocating using all your senses and your head at all times.

Eight – know your emergency procedures cold. This goes without saying, there is nothing worse than the confusion of trying to figure out what you should know while you're trying to figure out what is happening to your aircraft! Practice, simulation, memorization, and hanger talk always to prepare your brain so that confusion is not an issue. A strong suggestion is to be able to sketch the aircraft system you are reconfiguring from memory as you recite the emergency procedure.

Nine – use your crew, and their extra eyes, hands and brains. Crew resource management is the buzzword, but the concept is wonderful valid. Your copilot eyes and brain are your tools to be used to multiply the cockpit IQ. While diagnosing ask and confirm before you decide. A well-trained crew can be seen when the copilot begins to volunteer information, and then starts to make suggestions. If you've trained your copilot to sit down, shut up, and follow orders, you might as well be solo. Note how Capt. Sullenberger asks his copilot, “Got any Ideas?” before he plants the aircraft into the river. His copilot says, “Actually, not,” and they together take their aircraft into the ditching.

Ten – recognize that the most dangerous problem your aircraft can face is your own poor judgment. A high percentage of aircraft accidents are the result of the judgments made minutes earlier, usually involving weather, fuel, or darkness. We train rigorously to fix our broken aircraft, and we spend virtually all of our practice time learning how to cure an aircraft that has insidiously conspired against us. It is a sad fact of aviation life that somewhere between two-thirds and three-quarters of all accidents involve a crew taking a healthy aircraft into the ground. Think of the ways to practice your judgments, especially with darkness and fuel. Set up scenarios and discuss them with your friends, fly them in simulators, or stay awake at night thinking about them. It is axiomatic that we practice the emergency procedures that we can, while we experience the emergencies that actually occur, and that are, all too often, of our own making.

Georg1na
15th Jul 2017, 22:27
Nick - brilliant.................


I got hit by a wave some years ago - single pilot- had a run away up on the starboard engine and the port engine stopped! Very low cloud base and lots of power - and as a bonus a chap on the winch! As you say keep calm and touch nothing until the moment has settled down a bit. I pressed the tit for the port engine and it restarted as though nothing had happened - so now I had LOTS of power at hand and was creaming along trying to contain the rrpm to avoid an overspeed trip and to stop climbing and avoid the cloud. Set up an approach to the deck and shut down the runaway up starboard engine on finals and here we all are!
Throughout all this used the crewman to run through the checks once he had the body on the winch in the cabin and all was tickety boo.....................!:O:O

SASless
15th Jul 2017, 23:14
I may have repeated the Fire thing......but did not claim to invent it. The saying .....not Fire.

I can however attest to the fact the Chinook Utility Hydraulic system contains far too much Hydraulic Fluid when it is feeding a Cockpit Fire. Except for having other more pressing business for a while I would have sought to explain that to the Boeing Engineers who designed the system.


Nick old Boy....too many nights on the town in London....as you seem to have picked up some of that fabled British "Under Statement" thing.

If you've lost your only engine, putting the collective all the way down is probably a good start.


The first line of an EOP should say "Fly the Aircraft!"

The second line should be "Punch the Clock!".

That accomplishes nothing dangerous....allows the Pilot(s) to take an immediate physical action.....and delays doing anything grossly stupid before putting the Brain into gear.

The third line in BIG BOLD PRINT should say "THINK!"....then all that other print and verbiage can be dealt with.

Devil 49
16th Jul 2017, 19:44
and fly the plan.

ericferret
16th Jul 2017, 20:31
When more than 3 items go u/s on start - perhaps someone is trying to tell you not to go.

Liked that one.

332 at Bergen

Load pax start engines, chip light no 2, offload pax fix snag.
Load pax start engines, no1 oil pressure switch fails, offoad pax fix snag.
Load pax start engines, no1 fire warning, offload pax, tow aircraft away in disgust (loom chafed through)

helicopter-redeye
16th Jul 2017, 21:11
The only time you have too much fuel is when you are on fire!

I've always attributed this to Paul Keegan at Oban, but then again he sells fuel so he would say this wouldn't he ....;)

GS Pilot
16th Jul 2017, 21:41
"Bad torque follows rotor"

A previous Chief Pilot (and excellent instructor) taught me this to help navigate the situation that Nick mentioned above; differentiating from a high-side vs a low-side gov/fuel issue in a twin, specifically a B212/412 with a dual torque gauge. During a failure, the torque needles will split, one increasing, the other decreasing...how do you know which is the affected system?

If Rotor is increasing and your TQ is split with Eng 1 TQ increasing then you have a high-side failure on Eng 1.

If Rotor is drooping, and Eng 2 TQ is decreasing, you have low-side (or failure) on Eng 2.

Bad torque follows rotor.

Anywing
16th Jul 2017, 22:30
With the recent, unnecessary, fatal accidents in mind involving bad weather and loss of control: Attitude + Power = Performance. We can all select our attitude.

tartare
17th Jul 2017, 01:11
There are Rules, Regulations, and other strictures that apply to our everyday business of flying Helicopters.

I used a simple one.... "Ass, Tin, Ticket!".

How about you....any personal Golden Rules?






https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19959076_1491310440891928_856292927806524441_n.jpg?oh=299805 bf579395f2206a9fd6ee14d344&oe=59FDBF68

Very good!

Washeduprotorgypsy
17th Jul 2017, 03:53
I'll play...and in light of the recent threads on rotor heads.


Good judgement comes from the "old masters" but is always learned best through the incremental experience of exercising bad judgement. Exercise much patience and systematic observation "leaving lots of room for error" in these regards. If you have become omniscient and infallible , surely thou art mistaken soon to be smote back to dust.

If thou senseth laxity or puckering of the unholiest of holy holes due to said proposed mission and your confidence in the completion of it. Returneth at once, thou passengers to the nearest safe bosom of Mother Earth in their original condition. For to press on would risk the wrath of your father far exceeding the purgatory of generational lifetimes spent on ground crew and straight and level flight.

Speaketh with unyielding firmness yet sugary tone, thy holy word of power; "NO." This applies to all ranks of mortal men positioned above or below you. To ignore your sense of intestinal control, is to ignore your connection to the almighty. Perhaps thou be threatened with being "skidded from the job." Bear this burden with great faith knowing thou shalt be rewarded in chopper Valhalla for thy suffering.....'tis rumoured that far beyond 69 type endorsements and other...rides await.

Be not tempted to fornicate with IMC when not on a IFR plan nor machine. Neither to emulate the meager skills of YouTube idiots who mistake stupidity for being badass and skilled. Study their "dark ways" to reveal their methods only to plied when your mortal folly has led you to unholy places or to perform the most holiest of holy missions.

Now that you know where to find your divine antenna, go forth and do great work.

SASless
17th Jul 2017, 04:51
Why use torquemeters at all?

That is the poorest tool in the bag.

Nr and Ng/N-1....are better....as Collective Postion will not confuse that.




"Bad torque follows rotor"

A previous Chief Pilot (and excellent instructor) taught me this to help navigate the situation that Nick mentioned above; differentiating from a high-side vs a low-side gov/fuel issue in a twin, specifically a B212/412 with a dual torque gauge. During a failure, the torque needles will split, one increasing, the other decreasing...how do you know which is the affected system?

If Rotor is increasing and your TQ is split with Eng 1 TQ increasing then you have a high-side failure on Eng 1.

If Rotor is drooping, and Eng 2 TQ is decreasing, you have low-side (or failure) on Eng 2.

Bad torque follows rotor.

oleary
17th Jul 2017, 05:05
"Bad torque follows rotor"

A previous Chief Pilot (and excellent instructor) taught me this to help navigate the situation that Nick mentioned above; differentiating from a high-side vs a low-side gov/fuel issue in a twin, specifically a B212/412 with a dual torque gauge. During a failure, the torque needles will split, one increasing, the other decreasing...how do you know which is the affected system?

If Rotor is increasing and your TQ is split with Eng 1 TQ increasing then you have a high-side failure on Eng 1.

If Rotor is drooping, and Eng 2 TQ is decreasing, you have low-side (or failure) on Eng 2.

Bad torque follows rotor.

Being of Irish ancestry I had to figure out something less confusing than my first twin-engine type - the 212. :O

The Bell manual described four scenarios - High side/High power, High side/low power, low side/high power, low side/low power all of which involved looking at Nr, Q (a pointer and 2 long needles with tiny numbers) and N1, if I remember correctly.

So I'm with Nick. In any engine malfunction look at the Nr FIRST. Secondly, look at the N1/Ng's.

Three needles on three guages - you require nothing else to correctly diagnose the situation.

If the Nr is low it is a low side failure. If you are low collective pitch it may only be a bit low (say 97%) but will be below normal (obviously, if you are high collective pitch Nr will be really low). Then look at the N1/Ng's, the engine with the low N1/Ng is the failed engine. Hence LOW Nr - LOW N1/Ng. Proceed accordingly depending on aircraft type.

If the Nr is high it is a high side failure. If you are high collective pitch it may only be a bit high (say 101/103%) but will be above normal (obviously, if you are low collective pitch Nr will be really high). Then look at the N1/Ng's, the engine with the high N1/Ng is the failed engine. Hence HIGH Nr - HIGH N1/Ng. Proceed accordingly depending on aircraft type.

I have taught this method in all the types listed above and it seems to work fairly well.

oleary
17th Jul 2017, 06:15
Why use torquemeters at all?

That is the poorest tool in the bag.

Nr and Ng/N-1....are better....as Collective Postion will not confuse that.


..... I totally agree. :ok:

Helisweet
17th Jul 2017, 07:39
Master=Disaster

minigundiplomat
17th Jul 2017, 07:44
i) Thou shalt have an escape option at all times.


ii) If it feels wrong, it probably is.

SASless
17th Jul 2017, 11:32
Mr. O,

I learned on the Chinook....one Torque Gauge with two needles, an Nr Gauge, and two N-1 gauges.

We looked at Nr first, followed by N-1's.....the Torque Split merely indicated a potential problem.

As in all helicopters....Nr is of immediate importance.

Is it higher, lower, or as set before the problem....?

Then check the N-1's.....within the Governing Range...or above or below?

That usually told the story for you.

Then perhaps you could decide if it was the AC or DC system that was acting up....as it was an AC system that normally controlled the Nr.....and a quick Circuit Breaker pull would disable that Engine's Governor System and you reverted to direct control of the engine by means of a Momentary switch that you would have to manually balance the faulty engine to the normal one still using the DC system.

Of course there was the possibility of a stuck actuator that showed up as Torque Splits upon moving of the Thrust Lever (For the unwashed heathens....Colllective Lever).

Key to all this discussion is all failures are not Text Book style failures.

GS Pilot and his Instructor Pal are right as well....in that the Good Engine will move according to Collective Movement....but that should be well down the line in the troubleshooting tree and be more a confirmation than a diagnosis method.

At least in my opinion.

Understanding what the "Governing Range" N-1/Ng for your aircraft is will aid in assessing both a high side failure....and particularly a Low side failure....which may determine if it is a Governor Failure or an Engine Failure of some sort that leaves the Engine running but below the Governing Range.

Seaguard
17th Jul 2017, 12:27
I've used a simple subset of 3 rules:
1) Nr - maintain. Because rotor rpm is your life. Sometimes this means lower collective, sometimes it means raise.
2) Hi/Hi bad - low/low bad. Distillation of Nick's description to decide whether the high or low engine is the bad one. You can always tell by Nr.
3) No fast hands in the cockpit. Regardless of rule 2, deliberate and consult with the other pilot before moving ANYTHING other than a primary flight control.

GS Pilot
17th Jul 2017, 16:50
Why use torquemeters at all?

That is the poorest tool in the bag.

Nr and Ng/N-1....are better....as Collective Postion will not confuse that.



Just a technique I liked. I imagine a scenario in cruise where I detect abnormal high or low RPM. That's confirmed quickly with a glance at the rotor tach. Looking at Torque I will see split needles which very cleary (at least to my eyes) indicate which engine is high and which is low. Works for me. I hope I didn't imply that N1 info was somehow excluded during the evaluation. That would be silly.

jellycopter
17th Jul 2017, 17:19
My guiding principle is that I'm only ever as good as my last cock-up.

212man
21st Jul 2017, 20:01
Just a technique I liked. I imagine a scenario in cruise where I detect abnormal high or low RPM. That's confirmed quickly with a glance at the rotor tach. Looking at Torque I will see split needles which very cleary (at least to my eyes) indicate which engine is high and which is low. Works for me. I hope I didn't imply that N1 info was somehow excluded during the evaluation. That would be silly.
Do we really mean N1? N2 governing is what our day to day existence is based on. N1 governing just ensures the engine keeps running after the start sequence is completed.

oleary
21st Jul 2017, 20:36
Do we really mean N1? N2 governing is what our day to day existence is based on. N1 governing just ensures the engine keeps running after the start sequence is completed.

Yes, it is the quickest indication of what the engine is doing. N2/Nf is what happens AFTER the gas producer does its thing.

Try whacking a throttle open (acceleration check on a PT6 or T58 for example) and see which moves first - N1/Ng, ITT/T5 or N2/Nf. On some engines N1/Ng and temp will move almost together, but on all engines Nf moves slowest.

pedroalpha
21st Jul 2017, 23:47
First rule of helicopters when something is wrong - do NOTHING unless the NR needs to be controlled.
Second rule - think about it
Third rule - always have an escape route.

Hughes500
22nd Jul 2017, 09:48
I always thank the helicopter for a safe flight at each shut down. Even when the engine stopped on one flight.

23rd Jul 2017, 08:56
Do we really mean N1? N2 governing is what our day to day existence is based on. N1 governing just ensures the engine keeps running after the start sequence is completed. 212man - I'm with you on this. Perhaps there should be a distinction between single and twin operation here and what we are trying to diagnose in terms of failures.

A torque split might be the first indication of a governor runup or rundown or engine failure but the Nf and Nr relationship will be the easiest (often bigger gauges) to assess, especially with a triple tacho (two Nfs and an Nr needle). Teaching for us has always been to use the triple tacho for diagnosis and reaction (if any required) and use PTIT/T4/T6 and N1/Ng as confirmation.

oldbeefer
23rd Jul 2017, 10:35
Heard years ago -

'A Superior Pilot is one who uses his Superior Judgement to avoid situations that might require the use of his Superior Skill' !

SASless
23rd Jul 2017, 10:58
With high Nr and one Nf/N2 high....what kind of failure(s) are the options?

If the N-1/Ng is within the governing range....or outside the governing range....how does that "confirm" what the Nf/N2 indications are?

Which gives you the better indication of the cause of the problem?


When we discuss general rules we have to remember there are differences between aircraft types and models of those types to take into consideration.

23rd Jul 2017, 13:33
When we discuss general rules we have to remember there are differences between aircraft types and models of those types to take into consideration. Agreed and that is probably the cause of some of the disagreements.

None of the aircraft I have flown have a governed N1 range, the N1 spools up and down to keep the N2/NF in a governed range. The exception would be the Gazelle but since that is fixed spool, it doesn't count.

In your example, a high Nr with one Nf high would be a runaway up (highside gov failure I believe you chaps with the dodgy president call it). A high N1 and T4 on the same engine would confirm that that one is working really hard and the 'good' engine would have the Nf in the normal range but the N1/T4 back at something like flight idle.

Further confirmation could be made by making a small collective lever movement to note the response - if you lower the lever slightly (not into auto) and the Nr goes up further then you have identified the culprit.

albatross
23rd Jul 2017, 16:15
High RPM, High Torque, high side failure on the high torque engine.


Rule #1 in all machines...any strange noise, light, anything at all....CHECK ROTOR RPM FIRST!

JulieAndrews
24th Jul 2017, 03:37
Helicopter Guiding principles - RENT IT!!

r22butters
21st Mar 2018, 13:12
Do not prostitute thy self out for a mesely $12 bucks an hour!

Vertical Freedom
21st Mar 2018, 13:42
'If in doubt...bug out!'

Thomas coupling
21st Mar 2018, 15:42
A, N, C......................nothing else matters

Mel Effluent
22nd Mar 2018, 09:28
Well said VF!

"It's better to be on the ground wishing you were airborne, than to be airborne wishing you were on the ground"

SASless
22nd Mar 2018, 18:56
Wires will straight up kill you!

Ascend Charlie
23rd Mar 2018, 00:42
If you can't hover, you're queer.

Gordy
23rd Mar 2018, 17:33
I think this can be attributed to VF:

Always do everything into wind, except peeing.

Saint Evil
24th Mar 2018, 11:33
Entry, Exit, Escape.

How do you get in?
How do you get out?
What do you do WHEN it goes wrong?

Works in other parts of your life too.

Attila
24th Mar 2018, 12:47
Do not fly in the same cockpit as someone braver than you!!

jellycopter
24th Mar 2018, 13:52
You're only as good as your last cock up.

SASless
24th Mar 2018, 13:55
Ass, Tin, Ticket....in order of priority!

snooken
16th Apr 2018, 22:44
I wrote this a few years back, it uses less oldeth English but tells what the ten best rules to handle an emergency are:

One – fly the aircraft, do not let it fly you. A crippled aircraft is still an aircraft and more than ever needs a pilot. Assess the situation take charge and choose the most favorable outcome. Taking charge of the aircraft means continuing to fly while your brain enters another zone to solve the mystery before your eyes. Doing to or three critical procedures at once might be necessary, but if you find yourself unable to multitask, then just do one thing well, fly your aircraft. A note on emergency procedure diagnostics: try to conduct your training to teach you to read emergencies from the bottom up, stating the symptoms and deducing the cause. Reading emergencies from the bottom up, from the indications to the root cause of the event is good training for your mind, and is the opposite of the way we normally discuss emergencies. When we discuss procedures with our friends, we normally say, “hydraulic system number one failure” and then proceed to explain what to do. In the real rough-and-tumble, our aircraft is much more insidious. It hands us vibrations, lurches, some caution lights, and from this disassociated set of indications we are expected to figure it all out. It is amazing how confusing a set of caution lights vibrations and wiggling controls can be, especially immediately after a shot of adrenaline enters your bloodstream. This is one of the reasons why simulators are so effective, but even hanger talk can be rearranged to be more effective. When you discuss emergencies, do so from the bottom up, listing the indications and deducing the problem. The best way is with the simulator or piloting software, another way is a set of flash cards that list the indications, and another way yet is to have a buddy quiz you. One time during an intensive training program in a large multi-engined helicopter, I prepared a stack drawings of the cockpit with the gauges, cautions and warnings penciled in. On each page I recorded the consistent readings for a single emergency. I had a clip installed the cockpit so that I could mount these pages individually, and surprise the trainees with a mini simulation that illustrated a budding emergency. It was amazing to see how trainee pilots who were wonderful at reciting flight manual emergency procedures suddenly come unglued when they had to figure it out for themselves. It took a few hours for them to settle down and learn to think about the clues that they saw while flying.

Two – always maintain rotor rpm. The collective pitch is the rotor rpm adjuster, and the rotor tachometer is your only best friend. It seems redundant to say that without rotor rpm nothing else in the cockpit is important. When rotor rpm begins to be untrustworthy is when there is too little or too much power. Both of these situations are cured by adjusting the collective pitch. So the first universal emergency procedure is to know whether the rotor rpm is going down or coming up and the first universal emergency cure is adjusting the collective to keep the rotor rpm in the green.

When an engine fails and power is lost the solution is simple, reduce the collective pitch to keep the rotor happy. If you've lost your only engine, putting the collective all the way down is probably a good start. For a twin, reducing collective a bit to keep rotor in the green is generally a good idea, if for no other reason than it prevents the remaining healthy engine from over-torquing. I would strongly suggest that you do not grab engine levers or throttles, at least not initially. Almost anything you do with the throttle at this point is wrong, or at least unnecessary. If the engine has quit, the throttle is not going to give you back power. In a twin, if you have the wrong throttle in your hands you are going to ruin the rest of your week. It is unfortunate that many times crews will hasten to perform the emergency cleanup checklist when airmanship is called for. Emergency checklists are often cleanup items after an engine failure has been satisfactorily handled. Initial actions such as adjusting the collective pitch to maintain rotor in the green are paramount. Then comes establishing a successful glide or, in a twin, establishing a solid climb on the remaining engine. After the pilot has successfully guided his aircraft into the new regime of flight, adjusting throttles and attempted restarts are fine procedures. A failed engine has taken itself out of the equation, and deserves no immediate attention until the rest of the aircraft is made happy.
For turbine helicopters, pilots train for and think about high side governor failures that pour power into the rotor. These events are relatively rare, and should be handled by pulling up collective to contain the RPM. A number of twin engined helicopters have been destroyed by crews who mistake a reduction of power in one engine for an increase in power in the other, that is they mistake an engine failure for a high side governor failure. For these unfortunates, shutting down the remaining healthy engine has led to extremely quiet cockpits, and autorotations. It is very embarrassing to shut down your remaining healthy engine and carry it, cold, to the scene of the accident.

How do we avoid confusion? The clues are right before our eyes: if the rotor rpm has gone up we have more power, and if the rotor rpm goes down we've lost power. Many times flight crews will become mesmerized by the torque split an attempt to diagnose without looking at the rotor rpm. Since the rotor rpm is our very best friend, look at it first.
Regarding high side governor failures, they are fairly rare and they present us with a unique situation – too much power. Just like being too rich or too thin, too much power is seldom a bad thing, so raise the collective pitch, absorb the power and climb, and for a few seconds don't worry very much about a transmission over torque. In the climb, study the situation, and identify the overpowering engine. When things have stabilized in the that climb, have your copilot grasp the offending engine control, confirm it is the correct one, reconfirm it, and then slowly pull it back while confirming that over torque is being cured. This can take many seconds, there is no reason to start snapping controls in the cockpit.

Three – maintain your altitude, it is your second best friend. There will be many times when the loss of a few hundred feet is not meaningful, but these times are overshadowed by the few times where the loss of altitude is irreparable and the ability to clear a mountain pass was squandered in the first few seconds of the emergency. It is an old test pilots saying that the only time can have too much altitude is when you're on fire. This also means that struggling to maintain altitude, or minimizing your rate of descent is a big deal once you have the rotor under control. Since altitude is your friend it's quite possible that best rate of climb speed is a great place to be, so in an emergency establishing a climb and reducing speed to somewhere below the Max might help maintain altitude. One circumstance where reducing altitude might be wise is when preparing to make an immediate landing. Under such circumstances descending down to a few hundred feet above the water or terrain and prepare yourself for landing should the situation get worse can be a very wise move.

Four – maintain your airspeed. Avoid slowing down below best climb speed unless absolutely necessary. Airspeed and altitude go hand-in-hand, so that in an emergency is often a good idea to slow to somewhere between best range and best rate of climb speed while you sort things out. This will mean that any altitude losses are minimized and also that you're in the best position to make an autorotation should be necessary. Many times pilots will wisely trade airspeed for altitude while they sort things out. It might be wise to hold some power while you decelerate and get a few hundred feet of altitude as you cash in the difference between cruise speed and best rate of climb. This extra altitude can be important in maintaining your visibility for selecting landing sites, extending your glide should you need to autorotate, and maintaining a longer radio range should you need to contact authorities in that last emergency call.

Five – keep your hands away from throttles, fuel, and hydraulics, until the situation is so stable you are getting bored. If your copilot goes near these controls, take charge. The first few seconds of an emergency are the time to stabilize the aircraft and its flight situation and begin the diagnostics. It is the wrong time to start performing hasty operations on critical systems. The ghostly silence that fills the cockpit when an engine failure is followed by a mistaken engine shutdown is straight out of an Alfred Hitchcock movie. It's doubly damning when you realize that there is no reason to grab an engine lever immediately after an engine failure. The lever you should eventually want to grab is connected to a dead engine and is a really no use you at all. The lever next to it is connected to the running engine, and is your life's blood. It would be wise to stay away from it while you sort out the rest of the aircraft. The only time when throttles should be rapidly closed is to cure a tail rotor failure, and those occur so infrequently that they hardly need to be discussed.
Adjusting fuel, hydraulics, electricals, and the like should be done deliberately and after consultation and cross check with your copilot.

Six – plan your landing carefully. You might not get a second chance. As you settle down after the emergency procedure cleanup, consider where and when to land. Extended flight is hardly recommended after serious emergencies, but flying a few more miles past the golf course to an airport with fire and rescue services might be a wise investment in time. In any case the three segments of your emergency the initial reaction, the diagnosis, and the flight home should all be carefully considered.

Seven – use your checklist as a tool, but beware of nonstandard or compound emergencies. Use checklists wisely, they are quality control items to be sure you don't leave something out but they do not replace thinking. It is usually best to avoid opening the checklist on till you've finished the diagnostic stage and know where to look for the detailed procedure. Checklists can block cockpit decisions, because the checklist can fill your workload at a time when you should be thinking. It is interesting to note that many of the airline emergencies that fail are the result of the crew applying a checklist procedure to a very nonstandard emergency. For example, the DC 10 accident in Chicago a few decades ago resulted when an engine fell off, and the crew lost control of the aircraft. By following the checklist, they slowed to best rate of climb speed while climbing at several thousands per minute. In post accident simulations, the crews who survived this emergency were those who noted that slowing down corresponded with a loss of lateral control, and they survived when they stopped following the checklist and simply flew their aircraft. The second example is an airliner that took off from Washington DC with iced engine probes that caused their power gauges to read very high. Their sluggish aircraft, which was actually at half power, barely climbed and ended up striking the bridge a short way past the runway. What would the cost have been to have advanced the throttles enough to climb decently, risked engine over boost but climb successfully? Here as well the crew obeyed procedures, and failed to cure the problem.
This is not advocating ignoring the checklists, it is advocating using all your senses and your head at all times.

Eight – know your emergency procedures cold. This goes without saying, there is nothing worse than the confusion of trying to figure out what you should know while you're trying to figure out what is happening to your aircraft! Practice, simulation, memorization, and hanger talk always to prepare your brain so that confusion is not an issue. A strong suggestion is to be able to sketch the aircraft system you are reconfiguring from memory as you recite the emergency procedure.

Nine – use your crew, and their extra eyes, hands and brains. Crew resource management is the buzzword, but the concept is wonderful valid. Your copilot eyes and brain are your tools to be used to multiply the cockpit IQ. While diagnosing ask and confirm before you decide. A well-trained crew can be seen when the copilot begins to volunteer information, and then starts to make suggestions. If you've trained your copilot to sit down, shut up, and follow orders, you might as well be solo. Note how Capt. Sullenberger asks his copilot, “Got any Ideas?” before he plants the aircraft into the river. His copilot says, “Actually, not,” and they together take their aircraft into the ditching.

Ten – recognize that the most dangerous problem your aircraft can face is your own poor judgment. A high percentage of aircraft accidents are the result of the judgments made minutes earlier, usually involving weather, fuel, or darkness. We train rigorously to fix our broken aircraft, and we spend virtually all of our practice time learning how to cure an aircraft that has insidiously conspired against us. It is a sad fact of aviation life that somewhere between two-thirds and three-quarters of all accidents involve a crew taking a healthy aircraft into the ground. Think of the ways to practice your judgments, especially with darkness and fuel. Set up scenarios and discuss them with your friends, fly them in simulators, or stay awake at night thinking about them. It is axiomatic that we practice the emergency procedures that we can, while we experience the emergencies that actually occur, and that are, all too often, of our own making.

...wise words right there...

snooken
16th Apr 2018, 22:55
No one ever says "thanks for trying though" when you screwed up doing whatever they were pressuring you to do.

Some one has to explain the ass-tin-ticket thing to me?! Feel like im the only one not familiar.
Good thread!

r22butters
17th Apr 2018, 00:20
No one ever says "thanks for trying though" when you screwed up doing whatever they were pressuring you to do.

Some one has to explain the ass-tin-ticket thing to me?! Feel like im the only one not familiar.
Good thread!

I'm gonna take a guess here....

Ass - my safety comes first
Tin - not busting up my aircraft comes second
Ticket - not losing my job comes third
?

SASless
17th Apr 2018, 00:31
Butters gets in One!

Take care of your own Hind End first....the exercise is to stay unhurt and if you do...probably everyone else will as well.

The helicopter is a reusable shipping container for the Contents....use it as you have to in order to carry out Rule One. The Boss Fellah can always buy a new one.

When all the noise stops and the dust clears....you can worry about what happens to your License.

Fail to properly adhere to Rules One and Two....and Rule Three becomes moot.

Thomas coupling
17th Apr 2018, 08:23
Aviate - Navigate - Communicate