What's everyone waiting for? [Archive]

havick

4th Jul 2017, 12:10

Mesa is literally the bottom of the barrel.

I recently jumped from flying rescue helicopters to the regionals here in the US. I work for an American Airlines wholly owned.

I'm earning about 80k USD or more in first year pay without taking into account the first year new hire bonus. The further up the seniority list you move the easier it is to make more money with the ability to drop sequences and load up your roster with OT as well as create rostering conflicts where they have to drop flying but you still get paid for it.

I'll upgrade as soon as I get my 1000 hours part 121 time which is not far away flying max hours per month.

Once upgrading the I'll be on over 100k USD as a captain.

I'll flow to mainline in about 4-5 years if I don't get picked up by another legacy first.

Regionals aren't that terrible anymore, obviously room for improvement but just don't go to a bottom feeder company like Mesa.

framer

5th Jul 2017, 01:38

Problem is that Ausi turbo prop Captains are earning quite good money so it just doesn't stack up.

wishiwasupthere

5th Jul 2017, 01:51

The cost of living in Australia vs the US sort of negates the greater wage though.

patty50

5th Jul 2017, 03:15

The cost of living in Australia vs the US sort of negates the greater wage though.

Avo on toast and a coffee will still set you back US$15-20.

Sure living as a peasant is cheaper there but for a comparable standard of living, not really.

Berealgetreal

5th Jul 2017, 13:25

Persistent rumour of South West coming out to do road shows. I call BS on that one. Anyone have info to contrary.

bafanguy

5th Jul 2017, 14:10

Persistent rumour of South West coming out to do road shows. I call BS on that one. Anyone have info to contrary.

Brgr,

Are you referring to the US airline, Southwest ? I thought there is/was a Southwest in Africa too but Google couldn't tell me for sure.

If you're talking about the US version, I join you in your opinion !! :-)))

Livin

5th Jul 2017, 16:07

I made the move earlier this year after waiting on the Qlink hold file too long. I'm on an E3 visa and the standard of living I enjoy with my family is no worse than we had back in Aus. The Aviation industry here has opened my eyes to a whole other world, so far I have helped 5 other Aussies make the move. If anyone's interested in joining us send me a pm and I'll be happy to help.

VH DSJ

5th Jul 2017, 16:23

I've been in the US almost 9 months and now I hold a line with regular schedules (everyone starts off on 'reserve' after check to line). You can earn a decent living here when you get to this stage with overtime. The company I work for paid for my jet type rating with no bond nor minimal terms of service. I was paid from day 1 of ground school. And we're free to move on whenever we want and management infact understands this and won't hold you back. This video gives you an idea of what to expect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw76VbNJDjQ

I concur with Havick in that Mesa is probably the bottom of the barrel. When I started, there were only two US regionals that employed Australians on the E3 visa. Now there are quite a few to choose from. Ask around for which ones to choose, and which ones to avoid. Those with huge sign-on bonuses (and I mean huge) are probably those that the locals themselves are avoiding, so that will give you some indication.

cLeArIcE

5th Jul 2017, 18:29

Don't consider Mesa...
I'm Another Qlink hold filer who has now been in the states for about 4 months. Is the money amazing no. Is it perfectly liveable once you get established and prepared to work hard.. Yes.
Plus working for a company that doesn't seem to go out of its way to treat you like crap, all training paid for with no return of service and the chance to fly in a very different and challenging environment with generally good people. The training I have received was first class.
Would of been happy flying a dash around at home but that wasn't to be. So far, coming here has been one of best decisions I've made.
As people have done for me, I'm happy to help others that have a good attitude and don't mind working hard! Feel free to pm me as well.

Willie Nelson

6th Jul 2017, 09:20

The states sounds exciting in some ways but it should be said that Qlink looked after me while I was there, albeit, living in Sydney was getting a bit pricey. They played hard ball come EBA time but at the end of the day the terms where good and I loved the work.

I wold have stayed but for a better offer coming along.

knobbycobby

6th Jul 2017, 11:33

You want to leave the epicentre of the universe in Sydney?
Really? You can get a run down house for a bargain of 2 million with a two hour commute.
Property never goes down in Sydney either so why go?
Jetconnect/Cobram/Qlink/Network/Qantas have such amazing pay and prospects too. We have the highest paid executives in any global airline such is the extent of our masters genius.

Kenny

6th Jul 2017, 13:50

Been back in the US flying for United for 2 years after almost 6 years at Virgin in Syd, so a couple of personal thoughts...

Mesa is a $hithole of a company. I very much doubt you could find a job in the developed world where you'd be treated worse, by your employer.

Don't make the mistake of comparing AU$ to US$. I get paid slightly more here as a 3rd year 75/76 FO than I did at the top 73 level at VA but pay 60% less taxes and support family of 3 on one salary, very comfortably. Your pay goes far further here than it ever would in Oz. Do find myself missing the lifestyle of a DINK in Sydney though.

Southwest coming to Oz???!! Not in a million years. They have a room full of CV's from guys here, that would literally sell a testicle to work for them. That's probably just wishful thinking from some less informed VA guys that still think Southwest is the best company in the world.

I will say this, though. I've spent almost 20 years here. On and off and I've found that since a certain numpty took office in the Whitehouse, I've had far more xenophobic and bigoted comments thrown my way about being a foreigner in the US. It's all the more surprising as I've always taken the approach of being extremely respectful, keeping my head down and being as anonymous as possible.

bafanguy

6th Jul 2017, 14:54

Southwest coming to Oz???!! Not in a million years. They have a room full of CV's from guys here, that would literally sell a testicle to work for them. That's probably just wishful thinking from some less informed VA guys that still think Southwest is the best company in the world.

From a website dealing with SWA applicants: They're interviewing 16 people/day with a success rate of 25-40% so they're pretty fussy (Delta's interview success rate, for comparison, is 68%) and the seat progression won't be as rapid as DL, UA or AA since SWA doesn't have the % retirement issues the others have. They have 3 classes/mo set through August with 2/mo after that with maybe more.

Somebody must've been pullin' somebody's leg with the SWA rumor. ;-)

I'm surprised you've had issues due to your lineage. Try to find some more enlightened people to associate with ! :-)))

Kenny

6th Jul 2017, 15:10

Bafan,

Apart from the odd redneck comment, never encountered anything other than positive vibes over the years. I've always felt Americans feel a unique affinity for the Aussies and they certainly don't give us cr@p the same as they do, the Cannucks or Brits.

I think the current administration has emboldened the masses to say what they think, sometimes ignorantly, without thinking first. You get idiots no matter where you work or live but even though I have a very thick skin, I've been surprised at the blatantly personal nature of some of the comments. I should say that it's very much the exception though and working at UAL is easily the best job of my career.

vee1-rotate

6th Jul 2017, 20:17

Been in the US on and off for the last 6 years and wouldn't head back to Aus if you paid me. Quality of life here is fantastic and as previously stated, your dollar goes so much further. Granted things like health care and education for the kids are things that need to be researched properly to get the best set up, however the size of the aviation industry, opportunity for growth and personal progression, network potential and just general living things like entertainment both in and outdoors are second to none. I've lived in California and now Nevada (Vegas to be exact) and life is bliss. Another thing to mentioned ... GA flying is incredible. Airstrips everywhere, most have full service FBO's, rental rates are ridiculously cheap etc.

If you have the opportunity to get over here, particularly if you are young and single, do not pass it up.

dr dre

7th Jul 2017, 01:31

I get paid slightly more here as a 3rd year 75/76 FO than I did at the top 73 level at VA but pay 60% less taxes and support family of 3 on one salary, very comfortably. Your pay goes far further here than it ever would in Oz. Do find myself missing the lifestyle of a DINK in Sydney though.

You may pay less in taxes, but don't you then have to pay a much higher price overall for basic things like healthcare, education and basic public services? For example healthcare:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita
In Australia we pay an average of $4400 per year per person on taxes for Medicare, private insurance and out of pocket expenses. In the United States that goes up to $9500 per person. For a system with worse outcomes.

Yeah we do pay more in tax (slightly) but we get a lot more for those taxes with our dollar.

I guess if you prefer to spend for those basic public services via your own money then the USA is the way to go. However I much prefer our way of living (even if it's considered "socialist" in the USA).

One other point, annual leave at one major US regional was one week per year, increasing up to a maximum of 4 weeks after 14 years employment as opposed to 6 weeks straight away here. And lower sick leave.

VH DSJ

7th Jul 2017, 03:55

Do you still need the 12 years industry experience or 4 year degree to get the E3?

Absolutely not. There are people already working in the US on the E3 visa without any of this.

Kenny

7th Jul 2017, 13:02

You may pay less in taxes, but don't you then have to pay a much higher price overall for basic things like healthcare, education and basic public services? For example healthcare:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita
In Australia we pay an average of $4400 per year per person on taxes for Medicare, private insurance and out of pocket expenses. In the United States that goes up to $9500 per person. For a system with worse outcomes.

Yeah we do pay more in tax (slightly) but we get a lot more for those taxes with our dollar.

I guess if you prefer to spend for those basic public services via your own money then the USA is the way to go. However I much prefer our way of living (even if it's considered "socialist" in the USA).

One other point, annual leave at one major US regional was one week per year, increasing up to a maximum of 4 weeks after 14 years employment as opposed to 6 weeks straight away here. And lower sick leave.

Nope...I paid around $440 a month for healthcare insurance in Australia. My wife and I were planning to start a family, so we had the family plan. Here, I do pay about $100 more a month but it includes everything, including 2 pairs of glasses a year. I have progressives so that's around $1000 a pop I don't have to pay.

You say that Australians pay "slightly" more taxes and that we get more for those taxes. Exactly how would you know? Have you actually lived in the US? All I can tell is that my wife and I paid AU$475000 on taxes and rent in the 5 years we lived in Sydney. I tell that to guys I work with who are earning $220k-$350k a year here and they're speechless. As I said, I pay 60% less tax on the same amount. That's more than slightly less to me.

The leave thing depends on who you work for. Contractually, I now get 14 days after 2 years BUT I can turn that into 4 weeks just by tweaking how I bid for my roster.

Look, i understand the quality of life you can have in Australia but it is becoming increasingly more expensive and unaffordable. If you have a family and one income, you'll eventually have to move to the boonies to afford living in NSW.

-41

7th Jul 2017, 13:38

bafanguy

7th Jul 2017, 13:51

Bafan,

Apart from the odd redneck comment...I've always felt Americans feel a unique affinity for the Aussies and they certainly don't give us cr@p the same as they do, the Cannucks...

Rednecks can safely be ignored.

Americans pick on Canadians ? I didn't know that. I rescued a refugee from The Maritimes 40 years ago and have not picked on her one time !! Once she figured out the indoor plumbing, she fit in rather nicely. Of course, I had to buy her a pair of shoes so she didn't come to our wedding barefoot.

On a serious note, a regional job will serve the same function for an Aussie that it does an American: steppingstone...just passin' through on the way to bigger and better.

troppo

7th Jul 2017, 14:13

Nope...I paid around $440 a month for healthcare insurance in Australia. My wife and I were planning to start a family, so we had the family plan. Here, I do pay about $100 more a month but it includes everything, including 2 pairs of glasses a year. I have progressives so that's around $1000 a pop I don't have to pay.

You say that Australians pay "slightly" more taxes and that we get more for those taxes. Exactly how would you know? Have you actually lived in the US? All I can tell is that my wife and I paid AU$475000 on taxes and rent in the 5 years we lived in Sydney. I tell that to guys I work with who are earning $220k-$350k a year here and they're speechless. As I said, I pay 60% less tax on the same amount. That's more than slightly less to me.

The leave thing depends on who you work for. Contractually, I now get 14 days after 2 years BUT I can turn that into 4 weeks just by tweaking how I bid for my roster.

Look, i understand the quality of life you can have in Australia but it is becoming increasingly more expensive and unaffordable. If you have a family and one income, you'll eventually have to move to the boonies to afford living in NSW.

Well put and balanced. Those who have never ventured beyond the fish bowl don't understand.

Kenny

7th Jul 2017, 14:32

so Kenny you are always on a E3 visa?
or can you apply for citizenship like the the 457's here in AUS.

As an expat I'd always be concerned about the risk of a visa non renewal - or layoffs - gets very $$$ moving a family.

I can't speak for the E3 visa; While never part of the master plan, I married a local and have had a Green Card/Permanent residency for about 15 years.

Like everything in life, it's all about pro's and con's. And it's very much a personal decision. I've found over the last 40 something years of living the expat life, that nowhere is perfect. There's always a trade off. Australia.....good beer, weather, schools and I don't have to repeat myself because most understand me but you pay over the odds for it. The US.....cheap cost of living, cars, food, electricity, heating, etc, etc but my son will have a yank accent and I sometimes feel like I'm talking some alien form of English.

If, you're young a single, what have you got to lose? Have an adventure, see another side of life and aviation and go back if it's not for you.

havick

7th Jul 2017, 15:39

I can't speak for the E3 visa; While never part of the master plan, I married a local and have had a Green Card/Permanent residency for about 15 years.

Like everything in life, it's all about pro's and con's. And it's very much a personal decision. I've found over the last 40 something years of living the expat life, that nowhere is perfect. There's always a trade off. Australia.....good beer, weather, schools and I don't have to repeat myself because most understand me but you pay over the odds for it. The US.....cheap cost of living, cars, food, electricity, heating, etc, etc but my son will have a yank accent and I sometimes feel like I'm talking some alien form of English.

If, you're young a single, what have you got to lose? Have an adventure, see another side of life and aviation and go back if it's not for you.

Sent you a PM

Kenny

7th Jul 2017, 21:28

havick

7th Jul 2017, 21:49

Applications to the legacy Carriers only ask if you have the legal right to live and work in the US. Now as far as I'm aware, this E3 visa allows you to apply for Permanent residency, i.e., a Green Card. I don't know at which point you can apply (the H1B visa allows you to apply for your GC as soon as you get the visa) but you used to be issued a temporary residency permit until your GC is issued, which covers the legal right to live and work part of an application.

In other words...yes. As long as you have or are applying for a green card.

To add to what Kenny mentioned above, E3 doesn't allow you to Adjust status to a green card, unless of course you marry a US citizen.

There's some debate whether a wholly owned regional with a flow to mainline will allow an E3 to flow to mainline, the contract language at the AA wholly owned regionals don't really specific one way or another. Though I would bet money ALPA will jump on it and not allow an E3 visa holder to flow through.

As for applying off the street no legacy carriers are supporting E3 visas as there's absolutely no reason to with the abundant supply of suitably qualified regional/military/corporate applicants

-41

8th Jul 2017, 03:33

Thanks Havick, Confirms my suspicions about E3 / flow thru to mainline and citizenship.

What a great opportunity for girls and guys commencing a career.

If only this was a viable option back in the 90's.

My own experience as an expat in the 3rd world opened my eyes to all the EA benefits, I previously took for granted with oz operators.

vee1-rotate

11th Jul 2017, 18:05

Absolutely not. There are people already working in the US on the E3 visa without any of this.

You definitely need one or the other, and the job must be a specialty occupation ... hence the reason for the visa. If you didn't need 12 years experience or a degree, what's stopping carpenters and truck drivers and toilet cleaners from coming across on the E3 ?

Livin

11th Jul 2017, 21:32

A Squared

11th Jul 2017, 22:00

Mesa is a $hithole of a company. I very much doubt you could find a job in the developed world where you'd be treated worse, by your employer.

Yep, don't do it.

I mentioned this on another thread, but Mesa Pilots used to carry pieces of plywood around with them, because the company didn't provide them with hotels on overnights. They used them to span the seats across aisle so that they could sleep on the plane. This is no longer the practice at Mesa, but it kinda gives some insight into what kind of company it is. Take a look at Mesa's pay scale, and don't be fooled by their claims. They include per diem in their Total pay. No, that's not pay, and $36 a day is going to disappear pretty quickly eating 3 meals a day on the road. Better than not having per-diem, I suppose, but it's a pretty low per diem rate. First year pay on the CRJ (majority of hte fleet) is going ot be about 50K USD, which doesn’t sound too bad, but it includes a "signing bonus of 22,100, which doesn't repeat. Second year pay, including base and 2n'd year "retention bonus" is 34,448 USD, which isn't too good. Third year would be 39,184 usd, but after the third year, the retention bonus goes away. if you remain an FO, your salary will be 31K USD. Ideally you would have upgraded by that point, but even if you do, your salary as a captain on the CRJ700 would be 57K USD. That's not real good for a captain of anything.

vee1-rotate

11th Jul 2017, 22:46

You answered your own question, carpenters, truck drivers and toilet cleaners are not classified as a specialty occupation. Those of us who have completed the process know better. I didn't need the degree or the 12 years experience and I was approved easily for the E3.

I'm sitting here in my office in LA having done the E3 visa 3 times over and every time without fail I've gone to the consulate for my interview, they have asked for proof of degree or 12 years experience. not sure how you got around that one. From visa website:

"U.S. Code of Federal Regulations, 8 CFR 214.2(h)(4)(iii)(D), describes the kind and amount of experience which can be used to establish the equivalency of a university degree. As a guide, three years of professional experience may generally be used as a substitute for each year of university-level education. This means you would need to show 12 years' experience in the field you are applying to work in. During their visa interviews, applicants for U.S. work visas should be prepared to provide documentation outlining their work history, education, and training. A consular officer will determine whether the educational and employment information provided meets the eligibility requirements for a U.S. visa."

wishiwasupthere

11th Jul 2017, 23:05

The people I know who've done it don't have a degree, nor 12 years experience.

havick

11th Jul 2017, 23:11

I'm sitting here in my office in LA having done the E3 visa 3 times over and every time without fail I've gone to the consulate for my interview, they have asked for proof of degree or 12 years experience. not sure how you got around that one. From visa website:

"U.S. Code of Federal Regulations, 8 CFR 214.2(h)(4)(iii)(D), describes the kind and amount of experience which can be used to establish the equivalency of a university degree. As a guide, three years of professional experience may generally be used as a substitute for each year of university-level education. This means you would need to show 12 years' experience in the field you are applying to work in. During their visa interviews, applicants for U.S. work visas should be prepared to provide documentation outlining their work history, education, and training. A consular officer will determine whether the educational and employment information provided meets the eligibility requirements for a U.S. visa."

I personally know 4 pilots in the US on E3 visas without college degrees or 12 years experience.

2 helicopter and 2 airline

cLeArIcE

12th Jul 2017, 01:29

Well you can use a combination of, so if you studied for 3 years and worked for 3 years you could meet the requirements (assuming you have all the qualifications for the job etc.)

206greaser

12th Jul 2017, 04:00

15C I think you'll find the US has very strict trade laws when it comes the import of spelt.

Sorry for being a d!ck about it :cool:

VH DSJ

13th Jul 2017, 04:09

You definitely need one or the other, and the job must be a specialty occupation ... hence the reason for the visa. If you didn't need 12 years experience or a degree, what's stopping carpenters and truck drivers and toilet cleaners from coming across on the E3 ?

You definitely don't, and this is coming from someone who has gone through the whole process first hand and who has helped a handful of guys who are currently here in the US on the E3 without a degree nor 12 years industry experience.

All the US consular official wanted to see was my job offer letter from the US employer and the Labor Condition Application. Did you have this when you applied for the visa? The whole US visa interview process took all of 5 minutes. I spent longer going through security than i did talking to the consular official.

pilotchute

13th Jul 2017, 04:59

I commented on this subject a few months ago. I had contacted 2 regionals and a friend of mine has been hired by a regional. One of the regionals is still asking for a degree. Initially one wanted a degree and later sid it wasnt required. The third still isn't taking E3 vis applications.

What I can say is the degree requirement seems to be an airline decision rather than a visa requirement.

I have been contacted by a number of people already working at US regionals. All have said even though the visa requirements seem rigid, the work experience and degree requirement seem to be looked over as long as you he the hours required for an FAA ATP.

VH DSJ

13th Jul 2017, 07:15

One of the regionals is still asking for a degree.

That's news to me and I've been working for a regional here in the US for 9 months and have not heard of any regionals asking for a degree. Many US regionals are crying out for pilots who have the minimum hours for the ATP and are offering huge sign-on bonuses because they can't get enough applicants. Why on earth would they place an unnecessary hiring hurdle by asking for a degree? Could you name that regional that's asking for a degree, just for curiosity sake? (PM is fine)

havick

13th Jul 2017, 20:16

I can't think of one single regional here in the US asking for a degree.

pilotchute

13th Jul 2017, 23:17

Pm sent.

Yes for E3 applicants there is one still asking for a degree.

Bellthorpe

3rd Sep 2018, 13:16

To add to what Kenny mentioned above, E3 doesn't allow you to Adjust status to a green card, unless of course you marry a US citizen.

That's correct, but it's not impossible to get a green card. My wife and I both applied for and received self-sponsored green cards whilst on E-3 visas. But it does require a lot of finessing. One day you do not have immigrant intent (or you can't get the E-3) and the next day you do, then you apply for the green card.

hoss

4th Sep 2018, 11:51

Wish I was young again, exciting times for you young guys.

Looks like LAX is the new Kununurra!

;)

VH DSJ

4th Sep 2018, 16:01

Wish I was young again, exciting times for you young guys.

Looks like LAX is the new Kununurra!

;)

More like Chicago or Detroit. LAX is pretty senior. ;-) I’ll miss LAX however after being based there for almost two years. It’s the best flying experience anyone could ask for. I can now say, I’ve been there, done that and got the t-shirt. Will soon be heading home back to Aus, for a jet job.

umop apisdn

4th Sep 2018, 17:15

More like Chicago or Detroit. LAX is pretty senior. ;-) I’ll miss LAX however after being based there for almost two years. It’s the best flying experience anyone could ask for. I can now say, I’ve been there, done that and got the t-shirt. Will soon be heading home back to Aus, for a jet job.

Hey DSJ I'd be interested to know how the Aussie jet operator you got a job with took to the "US route" such as the ATPL conversion and the bulk of your experience being in the USA.

bafanguy

4th Sep 2018, 18:49

Hey DSJ I'd be interested to know how the Aussie jet operator you got a job with took to the "US route" such as the ATPL conversion and the bulk of your experience being in the USA.

Good question !

Congrats, VH DSJ

VH DSJ

5th Sep 2018, 04:29

Hey DSJ I'd be interested to know how the Aussie jet operator you got a job with took to the "US route" such as the ATPL conversion and the bulk of your experience being in the USA.

umop apisdn, I've had an app in with this operator for some time now, but only after I updated my CV with my US experience did I get an invitation to go through their selection process. That might be saying something about my lack of competitiveness previously without having said experience. I've held a CASA ATPL before I went to the US so even that didn't help previously. I know of other mates in the US also getting invites for interviews back home too, so judging by that I can say that operators back in Australia do look favorably upon the experience we're getting in the USA. And why not?; we fly in to the some of the busiest airports in the world, like LAX, SFO, ORD, ATL, SEA; have to deal with cold weather operations during winter with deice and anti-ice procedures; get to fly as PF, Cat 2 ILS approaches down to the minima and many of us on the ERJ are also qualified to conduct RNP 0.3 approaches too. I can't thank the US regional airline I'm with enough, in providing me the experience with a free jet type rating with no bond or minimum terms of service. Their check and training department is awesome and highly regarded in the US aviation industry and I heard that even the majors are envious of their excellent track record.