Cessna 310 down Los Angeles area

[IBMJunkman]

Crashed short of John Wayne Airport (SNA) onto south bound Interstate 405 in Santa Ana, California. Pilot and passenger injured.

South and North bound I-405 closed for a time.

Small Plane Crashes on 405 Freeway Near John Wayne Airport; 2 Hospitalized | KTLA (http://ktla.com/2017/06/30/small-plane-lands-on-405-freeway-near-john-wayne-airport/)

[Deadstick126]

We all know this happens, but here's a great example of a 310 with a failed right engine and the resulting roll into same. The pilot got the wings level before the impact and both souls on board survived despite the fire.

Video Shows Small Plane Crash Onto Busy California Freeway and Burn - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/video-shows-small-plane-crash-onto-busy-california-freeway-and-burn-980869699541)

[sleeper]

I doubt that had anything to do with it. He rolled quite fast back to wingslevel. He just did not have enough energy to make it to the runway. Not enough power set or available on the remaining engine?

[oyster cracker]

Like most light twins, the remaining engine only takes you to the scene of the accident.

[Havingwings4ever]

agree, the remaining "climb" performance on those light twins usually sucks, even when your doing everything right, especially on a hot day like yesterday.
His descent rate just before impact looks like it was very high, wonder why.

[B737C525]

Like most light twins, the remaining engine only takes you to the scene of the accident

And your evidence for that is..?

[JammedStab]

I see that the gear is down. A high drag item that is not beneficial if you are attempting to continue flight.

[Philoctetes]

As one was always taught - As you level the wings with the ball in the middle, Power (full), Drag (gear and flaps up) finally Trim

[Machinbird]

The right propeller is not visible inflight, suggesting that it was not feathered. The video is very grainy however.
EFATO is very unforgiving of inaction/ delayed action in a piston twin.
With one fully operative engine at sea level it should have been able to fly away once feathered and cleaned up.
Did the proximity of the airport tempt an abbreviated procedure?:suspect:

[Hotel Tango]

All I can deduce is that they took off on either 20L or 20R and, to crash on the 405, must have almost completed a very tight right-hand circuit back onto 20R. The aircraft is still in the turn lining up with the runway at the start of the clip. It does show up very briefly on FR24 for a second or two indicating 300 feet.

[Basil]

Had an engine fire in an Aztec going into LHR. Flew OK.
Wouldn't have wanted to be left on one on a heavy takeoff.

[Chesty Morgan]

And your evidence for that is..?

It's not Perf A...

[Concours77]

I recall several studies which conclude that engine out in a light twin is a good deal more likely to be a fatal than in a single....not sure if that is across the performance envelope. I think this guy almost succeeded at doing something that is not recommended, return to runway after TO and loss of engine.

[Judd]

EFATO is very unforgiving of inaction/ delayed action in a piston twin.


If the prop is left windmilling for just a few seconds after engine failure after lift off (in other words the pilot is slow to feather it), then due to excessive drag a crash is almost inevitable. Depending on altitude at time of engine failure there may be no time to go through an unnecessarily lengthy identification process before feathering it

[Niner Lima Charlie]

He almost made it back to the runway. Crashed on the runway center line near an approach light.
In some photos, you can see that #5 cylinder on the right engine seems to be missing some parts.

[A Squared]

I recall several studies which conclude that engine out in a light twin is a good deal more likely to be a fatal than in a single...

My question is do those studies account for the engine failures in light twins which aren't reported, because the flight concluded successfully? If so how do they count unreported engine failures? If not, then the studies really don't accurately reflect the actual difference in the dangers of an engine failure in a twin vs single.

[peekay4]

My question is do those studies account for the engine failures in light twins which aren't reported, because the flight concluded successfully?
They typically don't, and hence -- as you point out -- reach flawed conclusions.

J Mac's article from 2003 is worth reading:

Wrong Worry in Twins Versus Singles | Flying Magazine (http://www.flyingmag.com/wrong-worry-twins-versus-singles)

TL;DR: piston twins aren't less (or more) safe than singles

[Koan]

Miracle they survived that crash and fireball.

[B737C525]

It's not Perf A...

Written by someone who doesn't understand performance.

[JammedStab]

Apparently lost the engine at 1500' and unable to maintain height. Airplane was under control but the pattern flown for the return was taken out further than was desirable. During a turn, the rate of descent increased resulting in more lost altitude. Possibly could have made it back if a turn toward the airport had been made earlier.

Told to me by a pilot that flies at that airport. Subject to confirmation.

[ethicalconundrum]

I'm very familiar with John Wayne, flew out of there many times in the 80s. The only spot after take off to the west is a estuary with a lot of soft goo and unstable ground. I don't blame him for wanting to go around but I'm a bit baffled by gear down already.

[Bob Lenahan]

Lost right engine on takeoff out of Broomfield, Colo with me and two others onboard, full fuel. Low powered trainer, maybe an areo commander or gruman. Gear up, throttle idle,feathered prop, mixture cut-off. Climbed to crosswind altitude, turned downwind , all left turns) final landed. No prob. Experience- background and training are important which most GA pilots don't have. (many years ago
Bob.

[B737C525]

Even at RTOW, that aircraft should have been handle-able back to a landing following engine failure at 1500' AAL. More information, not additional opinions, are needed. Will the State investigator deliver that information? Is it even available?

[A Squared]

More information, not additional opinions, are needed. Will the State investigator deliver that information? Is it even available?

It's not the state which investigates aircraft accidents in the sense of a "state" in the United States. Accidents are investigated by the National Transportation SAfety Board, which is a federal government entity (Of course that's also the "state" in a different sense of the word.) Information from the Accident investigation is in the public domain. Normally for a General Aviation accident with no fatalities, the NTSB published a summary of the findings on their website. The complete set of documents of the investigation would be available on specific request. It likely will be many months before any information beyond 'This type aircraft crashed in this location with this number of serious injuries and this number of fatalities" is released.

[B737C525]

I wrote

State investigator

Not 'state'.

Sorry if you didn't understand that. The NTSB is the US State (not in the US sense but the international one) investigator.

The time it takes for the minimal findings of a GA fatal investigation to be published is another matter, and is not the topic under discussion here.

[harpf]

Wrong answer! In a twin with propellers mounted on the wings. 1/2 ball towards the good engine is closer to zero side slip, with the failed engine fully feather. It is closer to full ball if windmilling. I make a point of demonstrating this to my ME students on the second flight by attaching a piece of yarn to the center of the windshield and setting one engine to zero thrust, then windmilling the engine. each time fiddling with the pedal to get the yarn aligned with the center post, then look at the ball.

[JammedStab]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/news/plane-crashes-on-highway-bursts-in-flames/vi-BBFAO9F?ocid=spartandhp

video here with more info on the rescue.