Dayton Ohio Airshow USAF Thunderbird Mishap

[Airbubba]

I think today is a practice day.

Thunderbird F-16 plane flips on its top at Dayton Air Show

Breaking News Staff
12:42 p.m Friday, June 23, 2017 News

UPDATE @ 1:25 p.m.
There are reports that two people are trapped inside the plane.

Dayton Air Show crash: Thunderbird F-16 plane on its top (http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/thunderbird-plane-flips-its-top-dayton-air-show/9hYLy25uRDPep71YW9P2HJ/?ecmp=daytondaily_social_twitter_2014_sfp)

Hopefully some good news on the crew in this tweet:

ABC News‏
Verified account
@ABC 18m
18 minutes ago

JUST IN: F-16 Thunderbird involved in an accident at the Dayton Air Show at Dayton Int'l Airport; there are no fatalities, spox tells @ABC.

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/878305922665160704

[CONSO]

Apparently flipped by wind gust ??? as it was taxiing ??

[Airbubba]

Listening to the tapes, sounds like Thunderbird 8 went off the end (or side) of runway 6L after an ILS approach with heavy weather in the vicinity.

Thunderbird 8 is normally the callsign of the advance pilot and narrator.

T-bird 8 had earlier shot a missed approach to 24R with reports of extreme precip and windshear in the vicinity of the DAY airport. He discussed diverting for fuel and called his ops while he was loitering in the MOA between approaches. He decided to try an ILS to 6L, requested 'short vectors'. Tower winds reported 340/13G21, RVR 6000+.

After landing T-bird 8 reported that they were in the overrun. News reports said the aircraft was inverted and the occupant extrication may have been lengthy.

Time of the mishap was around 1630Z from the recordings.

Approaches and landing at the end of this liveatc.net clip:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kday/KDAY-Jun-23-2017-1600Z.mp3

ATC aftermath at the start of the next reel:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kday/KDAY-Jun-23-2017-1630Z.mp3

Picture here:

https://twitter.com/daytondailynews/status/878321118674690048/photo/1

[atakacs]

Hmm that's an interesting one... Any idea what kind of wind could do that!?

[Airbubba]

Good news from Thunderbird 1's press conference, both pilot and backseater are in good condition. :ok:

Pilot is Captain Erik 'Speedy' Gonsalves, he was giving a fam flight to aircraft maintainer Tech Sergeant Kenneth Cordova. Both were conscious and talking during the lengthy extrication. Since they were sitting upside down on hot ejection seats, I'm glad that the effort was not unduly hurried by circumstances.

As usual, some of the questions in an earlier media briefing given by airshow and airport officials were perhaps not well phrased. When asked if the aircraft occupants were pilots, one of the briefers said that we know that at least one was. When asked if the crew attempted to eject after the plane rolled inverted on the ground it was intimated that the ejection vector might not have been favorable in that situation so the answer was probably no.

During the 5 pm media conference Lead Thunderbird Lieutenant Colonel Jason Heard received word that the T-birds would NOT fly in the show on Saturday. Participation in Sunday's Dayton show would be decided later. He seemed pleased and not surprised by the decision as he looked at his phone on the podium. I sense that his input to the decision was in line with the result in this case.

[Onceapilot]

Hmm that's an interesting one... Any idea what kind of wind could do that!?

Fast jets are not immune to the effects of poor weather. Landing in heavy rain with heavy precip and gusty winds is always demanding. I am sure the reasons will be fully reported but, I would guess aquaplaning and loss of directional control might be a possibility. Also, these big Int'l airport runways can have a lot of slippery rubber deposits that can bite a little jet! :uhoh:
Very pleased to hear both occupants are OK. :ok:

OAP

[ShyTorque]

Looks like it's on the grass. If the aircraft left the hard surface with some sideways drift, it wouldn't take much to dig a wheel in. The F-16 has a fairly narrow track undercarriage.

[JammedStab]

Curious to know if the F-16 has anti-skid. We had an F-86 in eastern Canada do a runway overrun a few years ago during a rainy landing. No anti-skid and apparently vulnerable to this sort of thing. Apparently did a practice run with weather approaching. Both arrived at the airport at the same time.

[Martin the Martian]

Did anybody call International Rescue?

Oh, my coat and hat! Thank you.

[F-16GUY]

Curious to know if the F-16 has anti-skid. We had an F-86 in eastern Canada do a runway overrun a few years ago during a rainy landing. No anti-skid and apparently vulnerable to this sort of thing. Apparently did a practice run with weather approaching. Both arrived at the airport at the same time.

Yes, all F-16's have anti-skid with backup mode being a pulsating mode which reduces brakes effectiveness but will spare you from locking up the wheels. Last but not least you can go full manual braking with no protection.

[Airbubba]

Looks like the Sunday show in Dayton is cancelled as well. :sad:

From the T-bird Facebook page:

Update 4:

The United States Air Force Thunderbirds will not fly at the Dayton Air Show on Sunday. We would like to thank our fans and the air show staff for their continuous support.

Capt. Gonsalves has not been released from the hospital. Stay tuned to our social media accounts for more updates.

[sharpend]

Are they expected at RIAT?

[Airbubba]

Are they expected at RIAT?

They are certainly scheduled to be there this year. And they are also supposed to do a Bastille Day fly-over in Paris as well.

I would think loss of the number 8 plane with minor injuries would not be a showstopper. At least I hope not...

[B2N2]

No doubt they have a safety stand down or equivalent.

[Airbubba]

Looks like the show schedule is back on the road. :ok:

UPDATE 5:

The United States Air Force Thunderbirds will return to flying operations today, June 26th when the squadron departs Dayton, Ohio for home station at Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada. The team will conduct routine practices on Tuesday.

"Capt. Gonsalves remains in the hospital and is surrounded by loved ones," said Lt. Col. Jason Heard. "I have full faith and confidence in our team to conduct the mission safely, we look forward to returning to flying operations."

Thanks for the continuous support.

https://www.facebook.com/AFThunderbirds/

Here's the remaining 2017 T-bird airshow schedule:

July 1-2: Traverse City, Michigan – “National Cherry Festival Airshow”
July 14: Paris, France – “Bastille Day Flyby”
July 15-16: RAF Fairford, UK – “Royal International Air Tattoo”
July 22-23: Great Falls, Montana – “Flight Over the Falls”
July 26: Cheyenne, Wyoming – “Frontier Days Air Show”
July 29-30: Fairchild AFB, Washington – “Inland Northwest Skyfest”
August 12-13: Westfield, Massachusetts – “Westfield Air Show”
August 19-20: Selfridge ANGB, Michigan – “Selfridge ANGB Air Show/Open House”
August 23: Atlantic City, New Jersey – “Thunder Over the Boardwalk”
August 26-27: Dover AFB, Delaware – “Dover AFB Open House/Air Show”
September 2-4: Cleveland, Ohio – “Cleveland National Air Show”
September 9: Altus AFB, Oklahoma – “Altus AFB Air Show”
September 16-17: JB Andrews, Maryland – “JB Andrews Air Show”
September 23-24: Colorado Springs, Colorado – “Pikes Peak Regional Airshow”
September 30-Oct 1: Grand Junction, Colorado – “Grand Junction Air Show”
October 7-8: Minden, Nevada – “Minden-Tahoe Air Show”
October 14-15: Boise, Idaho – “Gowen Thunder Air Show”
October 21-22: Houston, Texas – “Wings Over Houston Air Show”
October 28-29: Moody AFB, Georgia – “Moody AFB Community Appreciation Day”
November 4-5: JB Lackland-Kelly, Texas – “JB Lackland-Kelly AFB”
November 11-12: Nellis AFB, Nevada – “Aviation Nation Open House”

Show Season | U.S.A.F. Thunderbirds (http://afthunderbirds.com/site/show-season/)

[Airbubba]

A nice clip of TODAY show host Lilliana Vazquez as she takes a ride with Captain Gonsalves in Thunderbird 8 a couple of weeks ago. She enjoyed every bit of it she says. :ok: There is a picture of Captain Gonsalves recovering in the Dayton hospital at the end of the clip:

Watch TODAY go flying with the US Air Force Thunderbirds - TODAY.com (http://www.today.com/video/watch-today-go-flying-with-the-us-air-force-thunderbirds-977987139532)

[atakacs]

Any info as of what happened?

On a side note I'm impressed about the scheduled displays in Europe. It must be quite an expensive logistical undertaking...

[ehwatezedoing]

Reading Thunderbirds Facebook's feed, somebody wrote down that the nose gear wasn't down (or something of that matter) Followed by lost of directional control.


I would take that with a big grain of salt though...

[SpazSinbad]

Report on crash along with USAF report... Extra Info: https://www.defensetech.org/2017/11/03/f-16-thunderbirds-crash-resulted-wet-runway-wind/
Investigation: Pilot Landing Too Quickly, Heavy Rain Caused June F-16 Crash 03 Nov 2017 Brian Everstine

"​A USAF Thunderbird F-16 was destroyed while landing in June in Dayton, Ohio, because the pilot touched down going too quickly for the rainy conditions, an Air Combat Command investigation found.

On June 23, an F-16D, tail number 91-0466, from the Air Force’s Air Demonstration Squadron of the 57th Wing at Nellis AFB, Nev., was flying a “familiarization sortie” at James M. Cox Dayton International Airport with a member of the team’s crew in the back seat....

USAF: http://www.airforcemag.com/AircraftAccidentReports/Documents/2017/062317_F16D_Dayton.pdf (1.24Mb)

...The pilot made no attempt to eject, and was stuck in the aircraft as rescuers were forced to cut through the canopy to get the pilot. The pilot sustained several injuries and was taken to a nearby hospital. The crew member in the back seat was not injured.

The F-16 was destroyed in the mishap, at a total loss of $29.2 million.

While the AIB president found the main cause of the crash was the pilot landing with excess airspeed, the board also found other contributions to the mishap were environmental conditions affecting the pilot’s vision, a misperception of the changing environment, and the pilot not following procedure for braking on a wet runway."

http://www.airforcemag.com/Features/Pages/2017/November%202017/Investigation-Pilot-Landing-Too-Quickly-Heavy-Rain-Caused-June-F-16-Crash.aspx
http://www.airforcemag.com/Features/PublishingImages/2017/November%202017/062317_f16crashdaytonohio0.jpg

[BEagle]

The pilot considered the crosswinds at the airport and decided to fly a faster approach of 160-165 knots. The aircraft’s data recorder, however, showed the F-16 crossed the runway approach end threshold at 193 knots. which “significantly increased the distance required to land” the F-16, according to the ACC Accident Investigation Board report released Friday.

The F-16 touched down about 4,764 feet down the wet runway at a speed of 25 knots above computed touchdown speed, leaving 6,137 feet of prepared surface left. The pilot was unable to stop and entered the overrun at 50 knots, overturning in the grass.

It surprises me that a pilot, of such quality as to be a member of the Thunderbirds team, deliberately landed so fast - was something causing the ASI to under read?

[just another jocky]

It surprises me that a pilot, of such quality as to be a member of the Thunderbirds team, deliberately landed so fast - was something causing the ASI to under read?

And nearly 5000ft in too. Curious.

[George K Lee]

193 knots? Was it channeling one of Foat Wuff's legacy products?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Convair_XB-58_Hustler_during_takeoff_061101-F-1234P-008.jpg/767px-Convair_XB-58_Hustler_during_takeoff_061101-F-1234P-008.jpg

[gums]

Salute!

I,too, am surprised about both the rain accumulating on the canopy and the final approach speed and rollout technique.

1) I did not fly in a lotta heavy rain in that jet. Snow, yes, rain not much.

The HUD symbology is useable even if the canopy in front of it is completely FUBAR. We had one guy fly for about 10 minutes using the HUD and the inertial flight path marker and such because he was attacked by a large pelican and blood/gore obscured his vision, heh heh. The bird also broke off most of his radome, including the AoA sensors. Then the computers got contaminated and the jet went la la, so he punched.

If you look at my HUD tape from the leading edge flap failure, you can see a great display of the ILS symbology. Should be on my profile entry interview. So you can lean around the HUD and skid, as this guy apparently did. No biggie so land in the skid while following the ILS all the way down and keep speed down where it should be.

2) I did land in squirelly winds and even crosswinds right at the limit when flying the Viper. The jet is very susceptible to gusts and to be honest, it does not want to land and floats if you are fast and wish to touch down firmly. Thus a very long landing.

This episode comes down to lack of experience by a low time Viper driver and poor technique from approach speed, then flare and then rollout braking. I can't believe the 'birds selected a guy with so few Viper hours ( 150 hrs or so?), and he may have gotten a fair share of them after being selected as the narrator. BTW, I used to think No.8 was the logistics/maintenance guy and no 7 was the narrator. Oh well. If that first female had zero Viper time, then I guess this guy was good to go.

The jet lands very well at high yaw in a steady crosswind. It also lands well without a flare if you have plenty of drag, but the T-bird jets are extremely clean and light. So you gotta pull back on that throttle lever, duh?

Or you go around.

The anti-skid on our jets got way better during the early 70's and were not the pulse mode doofers I flew with in the Deuce and VooDoo. You simply pressed hard and the brakes would gradually increase pressure as you slowed and stopped the "rolling skid". As with this dude, I once went out on the overrun after landing my VooDoo on an ice-coated runway after landing long. Anti-skid cycled the whole way and I had my hand on the "hook" as nose gear crossed the barrier cable, all the while debating with my RSO whether to drop the hook!!! We were at a walking speed and the asphalt had more traction than the concrete runway, so we turned and cleared the runway for the next guy. A Cannuck transport guy on the taxiway watched the whole thing and after I reported to tower ( they could not see see me due to the heavy snow), he said, "nice going, mate" or something like that.

Gums sends...

[Two's in]

I'm surprised there's no real mention of the obvious "press-on-itis" that took place here. The weather was dog****e (how useful a ground crew famil in those conditions is another question) and the pilot was confronted by an aerodynamic visibility/precipitation condition he had not previously encountered. So that generates 2 questions:

1. Why not divert to somewhere that wasn't enjoying torrential rain and thunderstorms?

2. If the weather was widespread enough to preclude a meaningful diversion, why even get airborne in the first place?

The reports hits all the technical and technique issues, but there was some basic airmanship and command decision making at fault here around the entire sortie.

[F-16GUY]

When the F-16 got the bird slicers (AIFF) antennas in front of the canopy, it changed the airflow and got us a phenomenon called water pooling. Our jets did not have bird slicers originally and water pooling was never a problem even though we get lots of rain in northern europe. Once we got the MLU upgrade and the bird slicers were mounted in front of the canopy, we started noticing this problem. The solution for now is to treat the canopy with a product that repels the water, but it does not work good enough if the rain is really heavy.

From my own experience, if water pooling conditions are present, the water will start to pool once slowing below 170-160 knots (9-10 AOA ish). In some cases it will spread all the way back to the sides of the HUD. If that happens you can not lean to one side and look past the HUD and land. With water pooling present you will have to accelerate to at least 30-40 knots over the speed where the water pooling started, to get it to disappear.

Water pooling sucks!

Agree that less then 150 hours on the Viper is very few for a T-bird. With a bit more experience on the F-16 the MP would have known that best way to reduce landing roll is to apply aerobreak down to 80 knots, lower the NLG to the RWY, pull full aft stick, speed brake fully out and max wheel braking. It is very difficult to resist the urge to bring the nose down early and hit the brakes if the RWY end is charging at you, but its not as effective as the above. Especially on wet and slippery surfaces. If in doubt, full A/B, speed brake in and go around.

Last but not least, I dont get the diversion fuel 1900 lb part. My take is that if you have not landed safely by 1900 lb remaining, you divert. The MP commenced the approach at 1900 lb and touched down with 1600 lb, thereby committing him to land at KDAY since he is now below divert fuel. Or am I missing something?

[nipva]

It surprises me that a pilot, of such quality as to be a member of the Thunderbirds team, deliberately landed so fast

....and so far in. Its always been a military truism that there is nothing so useless as runway behind you

[gums]

Salute!

Thanks for the updates, you guys. Haven't talked with a current Viper driver for many moons.

I can't believe ACC or USAF approved the mod unless they never tested the configuration in weather with "glued on" bumps. As I departed the fix, they were placing RHAW antennas on the LEF's because we were getting inaccurate azimuth for tgts on the the nose. They figured out a way later to get rid of those doofers. Could be where those bumps came from.

Not taking into account the water puddling on the canopy with no "blast air" as the Sluf and Phantom had is another example of the influence of the "Edwards mafia". With a few tests here at Eglin the issue would have been well known. But running the majority of your airframe and weapon tests in the dry desert is not a good test of all the new stuff, IMHO. We have seen test responsibility "creep" here at Eglin for 40 years!! Oh well, I'll stop whining.

I join others about the decision-making, concerning at least one other great divert base with the barriers and such ( don't think Dayton has departure end cables or he would have used the hook). Also agree about technique. Viper antiskid is awesome, but you need weight on the tires to exploit the coefficient of friction and break thru hydrofoiling.

Gums opines...

[OK465]

Water pooling sucks!

That's a dilemma....if you go fast enough to see, you can't stop....if you go slow enough to stop, you can't see. :eek:

Never flew one with AIFF, but even without it there were times in the Oklahoma rain that I wished I had some kind of windshield exterior air ala the F-4.

Dayton would probably have had the disorienting ALSF sequenced flasher lights up full bright in these conditions. I recall asking to have the sequenced flashers turned off a couple of rainy nights. (I believe they lost one at Shaw due to disorientation on short final.) Would that also mitigate some of the AIFF water pooling visual effects or was it a lost cause?

[Aerials]

I remember reading Air Clues in the 60's or 70's of an accident to an RAF aircraft and the explanation concluded something about lots of water on the windscreen and it causing an apparent error in what the pilot saw due to refraction in the different substances, water and glass. Perhaps the Thunderbird accident had a similar root cause but not identified?

[Tengah Type]

I have not read to the report, but is the speed quoted IAS or groundspeed?
Perhaps a Microburst from a thunderstorm causing a large tailwind during the landing was the cause of the problem.

Thunderstorms and wet runways have always been a source of problems. One such was when 8 RAAF Sabres came down to Tengah from Butterworth in the early 60s to reinforce the Singapore air defence. They arrived on a Saturday morning in a heavy tropical thunderstorm. The first landed and slid off the end into the Safeland barrier, his No2 diverted to Changi. The leader of the second pair slid off the side of the runway near to the end. No2 to Changi again. The third pair, the same except the leader was off the other side of the runway. The fourth pair also tried to land with the result that ATC tannoyed " Crash Crash Crash Another Sabre in the Barrier". No serious damage was done to the aircraft, and when the pilots came into the Mess we were all "very sympathetic":E:E:E

[RetiredBA/BY]

I remember reading Air Clues in the 60's or 70's of an accident to an RAF aircraft and the explanation concluded something about lots of water on the windscreen and it causing an apparent error in what the pilot saw due to refraction in the different substances, water and glass. Perhaps the Thunderbird accident had a similar root cause but not identified?
IT was known in my day, 60s and 70s as "prismatic wedge" which caused the outside view, runway etc., to appear higher than it was leading to a lower approach with risk of undershoot.

[F-16GUY]

I remember reading Air Clues in the 60's or 70's of an accident to an RAF aircraft and the explanation concluded something about lots of water on the windscreen and it causing an apparent error in what the pilot saw due to refraction in the different substances, water and glass. Perhaps the Thunderbird accident had a similar root cause but not identified?

On the F-16 water pooling in front of the HUD does not really cause refraction in the way you describe. what it does is totally restrict forward visibility i.e. everything gets blurred to the point that you can not distinguish the runway from the surroundings.

I have not read to the report, but is the speed quoted IAS or groundspeed?

The speed was IAS.

[haltonapp]

I think it was at a party for participants at Dayton Air Show in the 80’s that a Thunderbird pilot introduced himself to a group of 101 Sqn aircrew as “hi I’m Thunderbird 6” to which a Scottish Flt Lt pilot replied “hi I’m obnoxious 2”! You just had to be there!

[OK465]

what it does is totally restrict forward visibility

like a backseat landing in the F-100 :}

[BEagle]

haltonapp wrote: I think it was at a party for participants at Dayton Air Show in the 80’s that a Thunderbird pilot introduced himself to a group of 101 Sqn aircrew as “hi I’m Thunderbird 6” to which a Scottish Flt Lt pilot replied “hi I’m obnoxious 2”!

Wasn't it actually a polite Blue Angels pilot at a room party? But it was indeed rather a well-oiled Scottish Flt Lt VC10K pilot, who replied "An' I'm obnoxious two, so f**k o*f!". To his credit, the Blue Angel laughed it off and they had another drink together, to bury the hatchet.

Anyway, notwithstanding water pooling on the windscreen obscuring the HUD (which reportedly suffers from vibration effects in such conditions), how much HUD-out instrument flying do regular F-16 pilots practice, let alone the rather more specialised Thunderbirds pilots?

Heavy Welsh rain and the flat windscreen of the Hunter FGA9 didn't make manual GCAs much fun at Brawdy, as I recall. Absolutely NO forward visibility, but at least there was enough peripheral vision to let you know when you were over RW rather than grass.

The mishap report is somewhat harsh, in my opinion.

[gums]

Salute!

@Beagle and maybe others........

There is no "windshield" panel on the F-16. You are looking thru a "bubble" and the HUD is in the way, heh heh.

So the aero effects of RHAW gear "improvements" seem to have made for the problem that we early drivers did not see.

++++++

I cannot find the whole accident report, and would like to see if the "board" recommended a re-design and testing of new antennas that would eliminate the water puddling. But what do I know?

Hell, maybe a strip of duct tape just behind those antennas and in front of the canopy seal might solve the problem!!!

Gums sends...

[OK465]

AIFF is not RHAW, it's the interrogator....like the old APX.

I'd rather have that equipment with less forward viz in the rain, than not....maybe if necessary with duct tape. :)

And some 'bubble' exterior air....

The old rule of thumb for an F-100 IP, was that if you couldn't see the runway out the side, then it had to be in front of you. :}

[F-16GUY]

haltonapp wrote:
Anyway, notwithstanding water pooling on the windscreen obscuring the HUD (which reportedly suffers from vibration effects in such conditions), how much HUD-out instrument flying do regular F-16 pilots practice, let alone the rather more specialised Thunderbirds pilots?

The HUD is not obscured and the symbology is perfectly sharp. Its just that you can not see anything ahead of the aircraft.

What is the vibration effect you are referring to?

Here you go Gums:

http://www.airforcemag.com/AircraftAccidentReports/Documents/2017/062317_F16D_Dayton.pdf

I thinks flying fast on approach by that much is not the way to fly the Viper. Water pooling or not, 40 knots over the recommended speed crossing the numbers is not gonna help you land safely.

Worst I've tried was landing in 28knots gusting to 57knots with a slight crosswind component. Just added 20 knots to the final speed to avoid getting the horn (15 AOA). Landed slightly long and maybe slightly fast, but with plenty of headwind slowing down before the end was easy. With 40 knots over, I bet the jet is going to be convinced that its required to fly, not to land.

The Viper is a great handling aircraft on the ground and in the air. However, its a bit tricky in the transition between the two phases. We teach the students to fly the final approach with 3 degree angle, flight path marker on the piano keys, 11AOA until the start of the roundout, then cut the picture in half (FPM at 1,5 degrees), smoothly retard the go handle to idle while raising the FPM to half a degree below the horizon, and touch down at 13 AOA. If slightly hot, we teach them to delay raising the nose to 13 AOA during the aerobrake or the jet is gone go flying again.

Pushing the stick forward during rollout is a big no no. I wonder if its some technic carried over by the MP from the A-10, but it sounds strange.


AIFF is not RHAW, it's the interrogator....like the old APX.

I'd rather have that equipment with less forward viz in the rain, than not....maybe if necessary with duct tape.

Agree with OK465. The Interrogator is a pretty useful piece of kit.

[BEagle]

F-16GUY, sorry that I used the word 'vibration' - according to the accident report http://www.airforcemag.com/AircraftAccidentReports/Documents/2017/062317_F16D_Dayton.pdf 'blurring' would have been a better description.

[gums]

Salute!

Great updates, F16Guy.

For some reason I thot those antennas were more realted to RHAW than to IFF. Last I dealt with that "spectrum" of electronic stuff we were more interested in non-coperative tgt recognition using the RHAW, IFF and the radar we had.

Only time I flew more than 20 knots above basic speed was with the LEF failure, and I held that until touchdown. Almost lost it, but thank God I did not flare but simply pull back throttle at the touch. The drag was immense and I made the mid-field turnoff easily after a 160 knot touch.

No doubt that sucker does not want to land! And ditto on fwd stick pressure. I personally did not like the 11 deg AoA and then flare , having come from the Sluf. When solo, I flew the 13 deg bracket and then added a touch of back stick as I pulled power off. I taught the studs both, but most folks liked the two-stage flare.

Great stuff from the "new" generation. I miss it sorely.

Gums sends...

[PAXboy]

As an amateur onlooker: might the published report have had to have found a technical fault - rather than publicly accusing a US airman of bad airmanship? After all, the full truth about the loss of HMS Sheffield has only just come out.

[gums]

Salute!

No doubt the "board" threw this pilot under the bus.

I do not know if there were prior incidents with this pilot, but we had one guy at Hill in the early days that eventually lost a jet and was cashiered. He had at least one previous incident in which he actually came home with particles of trees in the pylons.

Having served on a few boards, I can attest that we all tried our best to absolve the pilot of errors and mistakes and bad judgement. We looked like hell for mechanical problems or whatever. The loss of the Thunder bird in June 2016 was a good example. Pulling back the throttle hard and not having ghe "detent" working correctly must have been a shock. Not enuf time for a restart so punch. I had the same mal myself back in 1983 or so.

The Dayton incident had enuf to blame weather, but not enuf to justify the approach speed and brake technique. Then the killer was a decision not to divert.

We saw a simllar finding in the Blue Angel crash last year and the T-bird crash at Mountain Home. Basic pilot error.

Gums opines...

[tdracer]

IGh, you do realize that the NTSB is an independent agency to PREVENT (or at least minimize) political interference and help insure objectivity?
Nothing like having a career politician oversee your findings to insure objectivity of your work....NOT :ugh: