Simulations - The Definitive Package?

[The Greener Grass]

Well, it has been a long time since I last posted, but as I have remembered my password :D , I am pleased to confirm I am still alive and well!

Anyway, my question is simple. Can anybody offer a definitive software package to recommend as the best tution and practice for improving the instrument scan e.t.c? I do currently have FS2000 as a leisure based piece of kit.

I imagine most of them on the market are cost effective if they save even 1 hours worth of aircraft time in training for the IR test.

I would really like to know about the most professional and realistic simulation in pursuit of this goal, so that I can start practicing. I am not currently in training for the CPL/IR but would appreciate any helpful advice in this area.

[5150]

Not sure what a/c are on FS2000, but I found the Baron on FS2002 more than adequate as an aid for the multi IR. I was also fortunate here as the Baron was laid out in a similar fashion to the a/c I did the IR on (HSI, RMI etc), so scanning practice certainly benefited from this.

2002 version is very handy as you can play back SIDs, Approaches and Holds just to see how accurately they were "flown".

I wouldn't say it helped when it came to flying the real thing, but certainly good practice for getting an idea of what to expect from instrumentation during the different phases of flight.

As for other packages such as RANT, Elite etc, I can't advise, but FS will certainly not hinder you in this area..........

Good luck

[David Balchin]

Can say you can't do much better than FS2002,
*most nav aids work on proper frqu.
*You can get your PROCEDURE of flying together (but not handleing.)
*More accurate X.Wind drift treatment.
*You can get better add-on software to put in correct: outer markers, rwy position and elevation. for Garry Simmons 's
UK2000 scenary webby.
*Proper 3D virtual cockpits.
*Tons of free add-on a/c available from www.fsfreeware.com
to suit your real trainer.

It really helped me get thro my IMC in minimum time!
Well worth the money, Just don't tell the lads!:D

[MJR]

As far as I know most of these packages do not incorporate ADF dip which, when doing your IR is one of biggest pain in the arse. The only package which seems to incorporate ADF dip is Elite which costs over £300, for extra dosh you can have a Seneca aircraft model which is likely to be beneficial.

Peronally I used Jeppersen Flite Pro £90 which is OK, but no dip and quite poor weather generation. It did help me learn routes and procedures though.

cheers

MJR

[Kapooley]

I heard that RANT simulates ADF dip. Does anyone know where good FS2002 scenery can be gained for the UK?

[MikeSamuel]

I haven't played with sims for a while, but I remember that Fly! was fairly good for cockpit realism and instrumentation. Plus, it's only £10 now so you can't go far wrong even if you buy it to have a change from Microsoft's offerings. There is also a sequel version, but I've not "played" it yet...

[QNH 1013]

MS Who is selling "FLY" for £10 and does it have the UK navaids for instrument practice?

[STOL 28]

kapooley, A new product is due out soon that is a photographic 3d Geo-referenced scenery pack for FS2002, it will be called Getreal, should be late August/September release.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

MS FS has pointless graphics (learning IMC remember!) and you spend too much time flying the aircraft.

My money is on RANT for teaching you procedures such as hold joins, procedure turns etc.

Not that MS FS does not have merit, its just that were you to only buy one then I would go for RANT IF your focus is on learning IMC / IR test procedures.

Good luck,

WWW

[SpinSpinSugar]

I've found FS2000/02 pretty useful with regards to instrument flying.

As an aside, not really keeping with the rest of this thread I confess, has anyone ever seen a sim flight model that realistically portrays a spin in a light aircraft?

It's always the first thing I try and I'm always disappointed. Has anyone tried X-plane?

[MikeSamuel]

QNH 1013, Fly is available at any of the high street game stores for £10, in fact, you also get an airport managing simulation, Airport Inc. (highly boring) bundled with it! As for the sequel, that also is available on its own for £10!!!!! Cheap and cheerful, but I have no idea if UK navaids are included...sorry!

Regards,
MS :cool:

[redsnail]

I must praise Elite. Superb IFR realism. Even has that pesky dip! Can programme all sorts of annoying failures/turbulence and other things. I didn't buy it, I just bought some time on it from a nearby flying school. Well worth every pound I spent. A lot cheaper than the aeroplane!

[QNH 1013]

MS Thanks for the info. I did look in PC World without success but will try to find some game shops in town.

Redsnail, Is the nearby flying school near to me (in the north midlands) or is it near to someone in the Southern Hemisphere (I hear rumours that is where you are from)? I have heard a lot about Elite and would like to have a session. My current practice is on Flitepro and On-Top V7.

[TeeS]

I used FS2000 to practice procedures out of Cranfield for my fixed wing IR. I found the main benefit of it was for me to learn the individual routes - when to turn, when to think etc. For practising basic instrument flying I found it too complex ie it wanted to teach me how to fly - so because you were working hard to fly it I could not concentrate on what the needles were doing (in the end I did it all on the autopilot). Back in the days of the sinclair QL I wrote a little program for myself which basically gave me a helicopter which flew at 100kts, would start and stop a left or right rate one turn, set a rate of climb or descent at 50fpm increments. It gave all the required instrument displays VOR ADF ILS and markers. This allowed me to practice procedures over and over again with the correct speed and rate of turn every time (sadly the keyboard died about two months later so I never made my fortune!) Any how, what I think I am trying to say is, the more simple the simulator is to fly, the more time you will have to think about what the needles are doing, flying skills can only be honed on the aircraft or a 'real' simulator.
Cheers
TeeS

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Hence RANT.

WWW

[Desk-pilot]

I am a keen sim pilot - had to be - couldn't afford the real thing until recently!

There's loads of detailed UK scenery available for FS2000/2 but especially try:
Gary Summonds work (internet download or CD)
Barry Perfect GB Airports (internet download or CD)
Great Britain and Ireland (boxed product by Justflight)
Search Flightsim.com and avsim.com for aircraft, panels and scenery

The most stunning part of all though is when you start flying online using VATSIM the Virtual Air Traffic Control network. Only then can you really experience the true cockpit workload of flying an ILS approach and having to speak with ATC in a very busy airspace. A good way of participating in such fly-in's is to join virtual airlines such as BAVirtual (www.BAVirtual.co.uk.)

Hope this is helpful.

[redsnail]

QNH1013,
The airfield is in East Herts. It's called Panshanger. I don't know how close that is to the midlands.
I was paying 20 quid an hour. It was worth every penny.

[David Balchin]

One thing about FS2k2 is it is in some respects trickier to
fly than a real plane. this is particularly true in the case of pitch
control, with many people finding it difficult to maintain level.
meaning your are working harder. If you can stick with it and master the procedures as well as handle well I would suggest this
IS A GOOD BRAIN EXERCISE and will set you up for the real deal,
I found flying Biggin Hills DME procedure a doddle after simming it.
You can if you wish adjust the pitch moment by bringing up the a/c 'airfile' in word and also adjusting 'joystick sensitivity'

SPIN SPIN SUGAR;
You are unlikely to find an acc. spin physics in the currant FS2k2
But I was asked by Alpha Simulations to help create and test fly a detailed Tiger Moth add-on which can be 'made' to spin, go to www.alphasim.co.uk It still isn’t perfect because of FS limitations, but has many of the handling traits of the ones I've flown for real.
You can also reprogram the 'airfile' to adjust fight handling / flight physics by opening it in Word.

[QNH 1013]

Redsnail, Thanks for the info. Its close enough, and much cheaper than a Frasca.

[The Greener Grass]

Well thanks everybody.

I conclude that either Rant or FS2002 would be useful in different ways.

[Tinker]

You could do alot worse than any MS FS simulation package as an IR student or keen amature. Fs98/2000 helped me enourmously to pass my FAA IR, and RANT helped me pass my CAA IR, but for two specific reasons. 1 being the simulated dip and 2 being the simplicity of simulating local IR routes.

As a critic of RANT i'm not sugesting any kind of 'external' visuals would improve it, I just think that a simulation of the basic cockpit/'flightdeck' no matter how simplified and the ability to make a turn greater or smaller than standard rate would make a trainning package worthy of it's price tag.

If I had to pick between the two, I have to say WWW, (in my opinion) you are wrong. You get a package which is far more flexable with MS FS and alot cheaper.

[goates]

Hello everyone,

Another simulation package to look at is X-Plane, which you can get at X-Plane (http://www.x-plane.com) .It uses a far more accurate flight model than any of the MS flight sims. In fact there are a few aircraft companies using it for testing, and the FAA has approved it for use in full motion simulators. The computer requirements aren't as high as MSFS either.

As a bonus it also includes the physics models for flying on Mars. Not that that will help anyone pass their flight test. :)

Gary

[Splat]

I'm a big fan of X-Plane. The graphics are glitch free on my P600, and the geopmetry is spot on.

I've invested in a CH Yoke, the most expensive part of this, but worth every penny. The only down side is that it's not possible to configure the engines to go - L-throtle, R-mixture, but rumour has it this has been fixed in the later versions.

Also nice to have the plates in V & H to check how well (or not) you've done.

S

[Wheelon-Wheeloff.]

I've got to put my vote in for RANT.

It has none of the graphical aids of the likes of FS2002 et al but I feel is offering something far more specific and relevant to actual IR flying. The version I used a few years ago leading upto my IR helped a huge amount just in doing the included lessons and getting my head straight with things such as dip, gate positions in the hold, hold entry, procedural approaches etc. Getting these things straight gives you just those few moments extra capacity whilst actually flying, which I know I needed!!!

Gotta say I didn't have FS at the time so don't know how much that would have helped.

As an aside how much do they charge for RANT now? We were given it gratis as part of the course.

[Matt Black]

It has to be Elite for my money. It's worth the extra bit of cash, and is more of a "serious" sim than the others.