NZ and the 779

[moutere101]

In another forum there is a posting claiming "a strong rumor" that NZ has ordered 10 779's and that the announcement may be at the Paris show.
This would not entirely surprise me given their intent to fly deeper into the USA. The present 77w/789 fleet is good for between 16 and 17hrs which will not cut it in my view. Anybody with in sights on this?

[The Cassidy Kid]

Air New Zealand to go shopping for new ultra-long range planes - NZ Herald (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11870587)

[wheels_down]

The 772s will need to start to disappear about then so sounds about right. Well something has to replace them, they are a growing airline unlike QF who just hangs on to old birds, retires them then handballs the flying to J*.

[maui]

I despair. When o when are they going to realise that they are an "end of line" operator, servicing a small population.

Someone obviously needs to spend some time in a mail room or on the blunt side of an accountants pencil, to learn how it all really happens.

Tongue out of cheek. Go you good thing.

[ElZilcho]

The 772's are up for replacement, that much is certain and has been publicly announced in the above linked article.

The 787-10 seems the most likely to me in terms of lead time and commonality. The 777x is an option on the table, but I suspect it's too far away. Lastly, the A350 has also been mentioned, but I suspect the cost of adding another fleet will be prohibitive compared to a 787-9/10 mixed fleet.

[RubberDogPoop]

The 772's are up for replacement, that much is certain and has been publicly announced in the above linked article.

That being said, I'd be surprised if it were more 789's replacing them. The 787-10 seems the most likely to me in terms of lead time and commonality. The 777x is another option on the table, but I suspect it's too far away. Lastly, the A350 has also been mentioned, but I suspect the cost of adding another fleet will be prohibitive compared to a 787-9/10 mixed fleet.

The 789 has been servicing us well, but on some of the freight heavy 772 routes (i.e. HKG) it wouldn't be ideal.

I think he said 779 zilcho...

[ElZilcho]

I think he said 779 zilcho...
So they did... my bad. Edited my original post. I'd be surprised if we've already placed an order. Perhaps all this recent talk of evaluating the 3 options is all smoke and mirrors, but depending on who you talk to, we need a replacement sooner than we could get 779's.

Wait and see I suppose.

[Goat Whisperer]

the 787-10, like the first 777-200and the (non ER) 777-300 doesn't have the range that NZ needs.

The 779, well, that's a big bird, only a couple of routes could justify it. More 789s I reckon.

[underfire]

I despair. When o when are they going to realise that they are an "end of line" operator, servicing a small population.

I believe they are trying to create a hub, I see the EK flights that used to stop in Brisbane, continue on to Auckland. The flight from Dubai to Brisbane used to be great to take, as it was never full, adding that leg to Auckland filled the ac quite a bit. Then the Dubai/Sydney/Auckland flight.
QATAR has a non-stop from Doha to Auckland...

Making it too expensive or simply not enough room to park the aircraft in AUS doesnt help.

Here is an article: http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/273115/auckland-ready-to-become-global-hub-for-asia-and-south-america/

[moutere101]

Don't overlook the fact that 3 77W are returnable to the leasor in FY2019-2021. If NZ elect to return I can't see them replacing with an aircraft with less capability. Boeing have a production plan that will have slots available early in the production cycle. With the ME3 appearing to be spreading deliveries out this has to open up additional slots.

[RubberDogPoop]

?...Boeing have a production plan that will have slots available early in the production cycle. With the ME3 appearing to be spreading deliveries out this has to open up additional slots.

If we're talking about 77X here, I thought the time frame was nearer the mid 2020s, rather than early 20s? Is 2023/24 soon enough?

Qatar might not need all their aircraft slots soon....😈

[RubberDogPoop]

... I'd be surprised if we've already placed an order.

You put no stock in RW being Seattle a few weeks back? Coincidental timing...

[MelbourneFlyer]

Well-known NZ shill GT and his wife just flew PER-AKL-LAX-LHR as a guest of NZ and are heading to the Paris Air Show so I suspect there will be a significant new order announced.

[belowMDA]

My two cents is that the rumour is bs. They have issued an RFI and not yet at RFP stage. The 78-10 doesn't have the range, the 78-9 doesn't have the cargo capacity and the 77-9 is too large. Probably comes down to 77-8 or A350-900 or A350-1000.

[ElZilcho]

You put no stock in RW being Seattle a few weeks back? Coincidental timing...
I put a lot of stock on it, partly why I've discounted the recent talk of A350's... just not convinced an order was placed.

Call me cynical... or perhaps gullible... but I can't see why they'd be making media releases and internal memo's about 772 replacement options if they've already placed an order. Perhaps they're not ready to announce it, and it's all a ploy but I fail to see why.

Our 789's are now being delivered with a higher capacity Business cabin, which suggests they're going to be entering the North American market. With a similar range to the 779, the question on my mind is, assuming we start ULR flying, will it be on the 789 or a new type?

The 787-10 might not have the range we need for proposed new routes, but it would free up the 789 for ULR flying while giving us increased capacity to Asia.

All speculation of course, as I'm honestly not sure what time frame we could start receiving 779's or when we want to push further into North America. Either way, new Aircraft and routes is always encouraging.

I've also heard talk of CYYZ, which would require a 778 or 772LR

[moutere101]

You put no stock in RW being Seattle a few weeks back? Coincidental timing...
Are you referring to CEO Luxon being there in October. I think that event has relevance.

[moutere101]

My two cents is that the rumour is bs. They have issued an RFI and not yet at RFP stage. The 78-10 doesn't have the range, the 78-9 doesn't have the cargo capacity and the 77-9 is too large. Probably comes down to 77-8 or A350-900 or A350-1000.

I believe Luxon said in Sydney that this RFI relates to a replacement for the 77E

[RubberDogPoop]

Are you referring to CEO Luxon being there in October. I think that event has relevance.

No mate, meant the fleet manager of said fleet, there just 3 weeks ago.
Of course we could all be suffering from group confirmation bias...

[belowMDA]

I believe Luxon said in Sydney that this RFI relates to a replacement for the 77E
Yeah, that's what I was referring to. They aren't replacing anything else right at the moment. That's another reason why I don't put any stock in this story.
But then again I have been wrong. Once.

[RubberDogPoop]

What the hell is a 77E?

[ElZilcho]

Believe 77E is just another name for the 777-200ER

[Enos]

Believe 77E is just another name for the 777-200ER

777-200, 200ER are flight planned as B772, 777-300ER as B77W

It was said earlier on this thread that NZ is the end of the line and caters only to NZ, kind of true, NZ has a big tourism industry and so should bring as many visitors to NZ as possible, Air New Zealand had been a great airline for years, lived out of NZ unfortunately for along time but when you get step of the jetway onto the aircraft it does feel like you've stepped into NZ, it's a great product!!

[ElZilcho]

Yea don't think 77E is a flight planning code, but (according to google)

772: 777-200
77E: 777-200ER
77L: 777-200LR
77F: 777-F (Freighter)
773: 777-300
77W: 777-300ER

[ka_pai]

RW was in Seattle for a legitimate reason unrelated to aircraft orders. Is he part of the purchasing team?
That said, it would be a convenient time and place for any such discussions should he be the person to do so.

[kev2002]

I would imagine that fleet decisions are left for those a lot higher up the company hierarchy than where RW sits

[moutere101]

What the hell is a 77E?

Sorry, should read 777-200ER

[belowMDA]

So Paris has come and gone...
What happened to the oracle?

[RubberDogPoop]

They look a bit faster, obviously lighter but it was an error not to go tack for tack with them once we hit the lead...

[empacher48]

They look a bit faster, obviously lighter but it was an error not to go tack for tack with them once we hit the lead...

Well done, very well done! :D

[belowMDA]

I just knew there'd be a smart arse that would crack that one out...:}