An important consideration for Instructors

[glenb]

Im not a subject matter expert on this and I am hoping someone with more knowledge may jump in and clarify the facts.

Any instructors delivering under an RTO are required to have a Cert 4 in TAE.

Currently this course can be completed for anywhere between about $1200 to $3000. In October this year the course is being superseded by a new Super Course which requires 600 hours of contact time. By my estimates that's probably a 4 to 6 month course. No doubt hideously expensive for an Instructor starting out.

Therefore it would be prudent to obtain the more cost effective option prior to October, and therefore significantly increase your employment prospects. Particularly in light of the fact that post October Instructors most likely wont have the qualification.

As I stated im no expert, but believe I have the general facts correct. Hoping someone can put a bit more meat on my post to assist the new Instructors coming through.

Cheers. Glen.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Well...

...that'll stuff a few business models. This whole VET thing is the most incredible gravy train and self-licking ice cream isn't it?

What notification of industry consultation took place before this occurred?

[Xeptu]

Are we sure a Certificate IV requirement is a CASA imposed requirement and not just an industry direction or standard. I've been looking into doing a Cert IV myself but realised that holding an Instructor Rating particularly a Grade One Instructor Rating is really the same thing.
It makes sense that those that have never held an Instructor Rating and deliver training and assessments (delegations) to ours or any industry, should have some sort of formal qualification to deliver that training over and above just knowledge of the subject material.
In days past a company appoints its training and checking pilots who may have no experience or knowledge of teaching and subsequently weren't very good at it. The Cert IV I understood was to address that issue.

No doubt it will come to pass that the Cert IV will become a requirement whether one held an instructor rating or not.

[Horatio Leafblower]

No doubt it will come to pass that the Cert IV will become a requirement whether one held an instructor rating or not.

The CertIV is a requirement of the Vocational Educational standards for anyone delivering training in a Registered Training Organisation. It has nothing to do with Aviation legislation of CASA.

If your school has VetFee HELP or Vet Loan approvals, it must be a RTO and the trainers must hold a CertIV.

In this context, an Instructor rating is not the same thing although I got my CertIV mostly through a Recognition of Prior Learning process.

Glen's point is that effective October, the CertIV is history and the new 6-month qualification comes in.

CertIV is not required for Check & Training under CASA Regs but an Instructor rating became mandatory in Sept 2014 under Part 61/141/142

[Progressive]

Im not a subject matter expert on this and I am hoping someone with more knowledge may jump in and clarify the facts.

Any instructors delivering under an RTO are required to have a Cert 4 in TAE.

Currently this course can be completed for anywhere between about $1200 to $3000. In October this year the course is being superseded by a new Super Course which requires 600 hours of contact time. By my estimates that's probably a 4 to 6 month course. No doubt hideously expensive for an Instructor starting out.

Therefore it would be prudent to obtain the more cost effective option prior to October, and therefore significantly increase your employment prospects. Particularly in light of the fact that post October Instructors most likely wont have the qualification.

As I stated im no expert, but believe I have the general facts correct. Hoping someone can put a bit more meat on my post to assist the new Instructors coming through.

Cheers. Glen.

Can you conirm the replacement of the CERT IV TAE? it does not appear to be slated for major review until 2019 and the addition of LLN untits in 2015 was the last major change. You may be confusing this with the requirement to hold a higher qualificattion (diploma in TAE or above) in order to deliver the Cert IV TAE itself. This is unlikely to affect flight instructors but may affect some who deliver the TAE as part of an instructor rating.

I suggest you contact PwC's skills for australia to get clarification on this.
https://www.skillsforaustralia.com/training-packages/

[KRviator]

From the horses mouth (https://www.asqa.gov.au/news-publications/news/requirement-upgrade-tae-qualification):

Requirement to upgrade TAE qualification

18 April 2016
The Australian Skills Quality Authority (ASQA) has been made aware that some registered training organisations (RTOs) are distributing marketing information by e-mail indicating that all trainers and assessors must ‘upgrade’ their qualifications in order to comply with the Standards for RTOs 2015 as a result of revised qualifications in the TAE Training and Assessment Training Package, including the Certificate IV in Training and Assessment. This information is not correct.

While the Australian Industry and Skills Committee (AISC) has recently made a recommendation to the COAG Industry and Skills Council that the changes to the TAE training package be applied to the existing VET workforce, no decision has been made on this matter and such a decision would require changes to the Standards for RTOs 2015.

Should such a change be made, RTOs would be advised well in advance of any implementation and afforded ample time to meet the new requirements.

For an RTO to market the revised Certificate IV in Training and Assessment (TAE40116), it must first be registered to deliver this qualification.

As at the date of this advice, there are no RTOs registered for this qualification, so no RTO is able to offer to provide the qualification.

[Sunfish]

i can't even keep up with the acronyms of all these quangos.

[Horatio Leafblower]

i can't even keep up with the acronyms of all these quangos.

I suspect that's not an accident.

[Icarus2001]

In October this year the course is being superseded by a new Super Course which requires 600 hours of contact time.

Glen, where did you get this information from?

[Clare Prop]

If this were true, and it doesn't look like it is - after all this has been a rumour going aroud for many years- perhaps it could be a good thing? Weed out all the wannabee hour builders who work for peanuts and keep the wages down and get a more professional workforce that is actually dedicated to a career in flying training?

While on the soapbox it I think the same should apply to anyone providing driving instruction...

I know...I'll go back to dreamland.

[peterc005]

Always thought there was a lot of overlap between the FIR course and Cert IV in TAE and wondered why no flying school thought to combine the two courses?

[Clare Prop]

Because most just want to do the instructor rating as quickly and cheaply as possible, so that is what sells

[glenb]

A bit more info. As Peter suggested, my own school had been combining the two courses, i.e. the Instructor Rating with a very cost effective Cert 4 add on. For the Cert 4 component I was using an appropriately qualified person to deliver the course, but delivering it under my own RTO.

We were advised of the new course requirement from October. Our attempt to upgrade our course was not successful and it was obvious that was the intention. I believe that there are only 5 approved providers across the country from October. I contacted ASQA and they are obviously trying to significantly bolster up the quality of the course. As they explained it does underpin every other course that anyone delivers. It is the "signature" course.

It doesn't affect me in any way, as I already have the qualification. It could be a great bit of intel for any Instructor trying to get a foot in the door and give themselves a strong competitive edge, but you would need to get cracking I suggest as the option ceases in October.

Its fairly good advice in that I am experiencing it in my own RTO.

[The name is Porter]

This whole VET thing is the most incredible gravy train and self-licking ice cream isn't it?

Jealous mate?

Hoping to hop on that gravy train? ;)

[peterc005]

The Cert IV TAE is such a popular and practical qualification it's a pity it's been changed in a way that makes it less accessible.

My son did the Crt IV TAE and it seemed a lot of work, but also useful and relevant.

My daughter just completed a Masters of Teaching and has complained non-stop for 18 months about how irrelevant and bloated the course was. Endless essays on topics such as "the role of today's teachers". Six months of worthwhile education stretched out to 18 months, an unintended consequence of deregulated post-grad fees.

[Progressive]

A bit more info. As Peter suggested, my own school had been combining the two courses, i.e. the Instructor Rating with a very cost effective Cert 4 add on. For the Cert 4 component I was using an appropriately qualified person to deliver the course, but delivering it under my own RTO.

We were advised of the new course requirement from October. Our attempt to upgrade our course was not successful and it was obvious that was the intention. I believe that there are only 5 approved providers across the country from October. I contacted ASQA and they are obviously trying to significantly bolster up the quality of the course. As they explained it does underpin every other course that anyone delivers. It is the "signature" course.


Hi Glen,
It is more likley you got nocked back because the paperwork did not meet the new VET course/VET provider registration standards (probably regarding "volume of delivery"). Also the new standards mean that those who were previously qualified to deliver the Cert IV (anyone who held the CERT IV) may not be able to deliver it until they upgrade to a Diploma in TAE themselves. Therefore your previous TAE instructor may not be valid anymore.
I have extensive VET and aviation experience and would be happy to assist you more directly if you drop me a PM.

Cheers

[compressor stall]

So...

Would it be worth getting a Cert IV that would then get RPL for the new super course so as to avoid a six month course at some stage in the future should it be mandated in a C&T environemnt?

If so, what RPL for the Cert IV would I get as an ex flying school instructor?


As an aside, Peter005 I would have thought that, at Masters level, an essay on the role of a teacher in today's society was actually relevant course content. As your progeny has or will experience, teachers of today are faced with different challenges than what yours or mine had. Different social makeup, social media, expectations of accountability etc. I think that any teacher at advanced level of teacher education should be across all that.