BA lying to their long serving customers.

[ExXB]

According o the BBC passengers whose flights were cancelled with the IT debacle are entitled to a full refund or a rerouting before November 2017.

Of course Regulation 261 provides (c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger's convenience, subject to availability of seats.

There is no mention in the regulation of a re-route before date. The regulation intentionally doesn't mention a specific period as passenger's convenience will differ from person to person.

Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes perceived as the truth.

[edi_local]

November would normally be the start of the winter timetable. Perhaps it's down to that "availability of seats"? They can only guarantee similar flight times/routes up until the end of summer ops and don't want to further muddy the waters?

Does the regulation also state that the airline cannot place a time limit on future dates?

Personally, I think it reasonable to expect most people to have made new plans to travel within the November cut off date and that it's not really that constructive to criticise them for offering a perfectly reasonable time frame to rebook what for most was a weekend getaway gone wrong. I can't imagine BA turning away the relatively few people who try to change to beyond November anyway, but for ease they need to put some kind of restriction on it. Yes it was BAs fault, but they are going to deal with it and pay heavily for it.

[Hotel Tango]

what for most was a weekend getaway gone wrong

Hmm, I don't think many of the long and medium haul customers were on weekend getaways. Many might have been planning a week away and, with only being able to travel out on what would have been Day 4 of that week, may well have opted out. The question is: with work and other commitments, are they able to re-plan a similar trip within the next 5 months?

[RAT 5]

Personally, I think it reasonable to expect most people to have made new plans to travel within the November cut off date

Some people have a 'family &/or friends' annual reunion for birthdays or whatever. It is the same time every year. They missed this year's get together in May/June; travelling before November is of no use to them at all. Equally there are some destinations where the weather, the wonders of nature, the festivals, the 'whatever it was you were going for' is only applicable in May/June. That is what you wanted and paid for and that is what you missed. You will be doing the same next year and deserve a free ticket for what you missed this year. That is a perfectly reasonable expectation.

The more unreasonable;e BA make this the more hurt they will do themselves. I suspect the aftermath of this will be very public in UK. They need very careful, delicate and utterly white as snow PR.

[PAXboy]

Agreed RAT 5. When VW got caught out, they started to fire people and the top people resigned. We should expect to see that for, it does not matter what caused the problem - the problem happened and cannot be excused away.

Look at what Samsung did when their new phone was a disaster? Recalled, stopped production and made significant apologies. Thus far - BA has done nothing and it is well reported in the UK media that the group CEO (Walsh) was absent and that the BA man (Cruz) just emphasised that he would not resign. As I have said before in this thread, the first to be booted should be the IAG Group IT Director.

[RAT 5]

One wonders what mayhem will occur when the AGM comes round to voting on fat cat bonuses, and the same said FC's have award themselves megabucks, as always.

[PAXboy]

Not long to wait!! :}

IAG - International Airlines Group - Shareholder Meeting (http://www.iairgroup.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=240949&p=irol-meeting)
The 2017 Shareholders' Meeting is called to be held on 14 June 2017 at 1200 (CET) on first call, and on the following day, 15 June, at the same time, on second call. Since it is foreseeable that the necessary quorum will not be met on first call, the Shareholders' Meeting will be held on 15 June.

The meeting will take place in Madrid at Edificio Mutua Madrileña, Paseo de la Castellana, nº 33. It will be held in Spanish but we will provide simultaneous translation in English. The meeting will also be webcast live and available to watch through this website (including simultaneous translation into English or Spanish as required).

[Piltdown Man]

I do hope the webcast doesn't rely on BA infrastructure to work.

[ExXB]

IIRC BA's inventory is available 360 days out. Meaning you can buy a ticket for June 1, 2018. So it isn't that seats are not available. W17/18 season will start 29 October in 2018.

Also I recall that it was the airlines that asked for the availability of seats clause, as they didn't want a situation where they would be asked to bump other passengers. It is also written to ensure passenger access if seats are available in that cabin, even if seats no longer available against that booking class.

[ukcdmx]

This is more related to the title than the content....BA are absolute liars at all stages from booking to actually taking the flight. My experience is a saga but briefly here it is...

Long haul Business class flight booked (3 months ahead of the flight). 24 hours before the flight could not check-in online, tried several times with no success so called BA. Informed that the aircraft was 'under airport authority', hence why I could not check-in.
Arrived Heathrow T5 following day, 4 hours before departure and could not check-in using the machine which issued a 'go to desk A' ticket. Queued at desk A and informed that due to broken seats, I was downgraded to Prem economy. Super unhappy, I am directed to the duty manager - another queue. Informed that the aircraft had landed 45 minutes previously from NY, please proceed to the gate asap, it will be sorted there and in all likelihood, I will fly business. At the gate, sympathy from staff but no commitment regarding seat. Aircraft boarded apart from me and two others. Flustered manager turns up and asks us to sign paperwork accepting the downgrade. No explanation, no apology (have never been so angry in my life at this point). Last to board and blatantly told by crew at the door "you have made us late".

Prem economy was worse than economy, broken seat, broken tray table, broken tv screen, only one drink offered. miserable crew.

No communication, rudeness and lying throughout. To add insult to the matter, I had to apply for a refund of the difference in fare (over £1,000) and I found that out by accident.

Subsequently I have had another incident with BA and will not ever fly with them again unless there is no option.

I travel extensively (last years my spend was nearly £50k ) and approve over 1/2 mill ££'s of travel expenses annually. BA do not care - I clearly don't spend enough but my company now has a BA ban in place - no-one will have expenses reimbursed if they travel with them and I urge everyone to do the similar until such time as they behave like the flag carrier. It is a race to the bottom for BA, cuts at every level (food, drink, seats, aircraft, check-in, customer service etc,) whilst generally charging more than others for their 'services'. Frankly there are other significantly better operators out there, many of whom value your business so why torture yourself using BA.

[ExXB]

Er, apologies. I got auto-corrected, but didn't notice until after I could edit it. It should have read:

BA lying to their long suffering customers

[Hotel Tango]

ukcdmx,, I appreciate that you may have had time constraints but I would have never signed acceptance of the downgrade!

[ExXB]

ukcdmx

Regulation 261/2004 Article 15:

Exclusion of waiver

1. Obligations vis-à-vis passengers pursuant to this Regulation may not be limited or waived, notably by a derogation or restrictive clause in the contract of carriage.

2. If, nevertheless, such a derogation or restrictive clause is applied in respect of a passenger, or if the passenger is not correctly informed of his rights and for that reason has accepted compensation which is inferior to that provided for in this Regulation, the passenger shall still be entitled to take the necessary proceedings before the competent courts or bodies in order to obtain additional compensation.

Regulation 261 provides compensation of 75% of the fare for downgrading. I doubt you would have to go to the courts to have them pay up, they know they will lose.

[Ancient Observer]

What is unnerving about BA now is that they will put their lies in to writing. (I have kept copies). The culture has become so corruptly anti-customer that lying in writing is now completely acceptable to the BA Lords and Masters.
As long as the lie increases their bonus, I guess.

[eal401]

BA are an utter joke of an airline, the short-haul economy offering is the same standard as low-cost carriers, but not at low cost. We flew easyJet in February, the whole experience compared to BA short haul was ten times better.

As for Club World - the less said the better. The worst business class around.

[mftx7jrn]

As long as BA have 'the LHR franchise', then people will have no real choice but to fly with them. The alternative is going to a different airport outside of London to fly to similar destinations. It all comes down to price essentially, and time/convenience of course. I used to be BA all the way, but now things have changed due to their budget approach whilst still charging a premium price. Its a real shame and I hope they return to their former service sometime in the future- can't see it happening anytime soon though.

[ViscountFan]

Couldn't agree more!

[HamishMcBush]

Actually the typo in the thread title is quite good - don't forget the slogan "To fly, to serve"... it's now become "To fly, to screw as much money out of the customer as possible".
If your flight is cancelled but you are away, waiting to return toi the UK, which is what happened to me in PHL......... I heard of the failure which was entirely of BA's own making, whilst having breakfast in my hotel. Flight was in the evening so I went early expecting issues. Arrivals/departures boards showed the incoming flight had landed on time and my flight was due on time but these were lies as the outbound plane never left "but the information had been supplied to the airport by BA".

I was pushed onto a later AA flight, nothing available earlier (6 hours earlier and no seats on any alternative flights?) and downgraded. I also had find out myself how to claim back the diference in fares which took about 3 weeks to be paid.
Last month a colleague and I had to fly economy to CDG, our agent used BA and it was worse than a low-cost airline with no choice of seats, no food or drink on board plus an hour's delay at security at CDG when we arrived and nobody from airline or airport to explain why

[ExXB]

French airports and border crossings are on heightened alert. It's not just Paris.

[Heathrow Harry]

CDG security has been bad for at least 12 months.......... not surprising really.....

[5711N0205W]

Heading to Brazil in a few weeks, offered BA as an option and politely declined. Booked with KLM and seats selected already.

[Bidule]

CDG security has been bad for at least 12 months.......... not surprising really.....

Months or years? :rolleyes:

[TCU]

Flown BA LHR-CPT and back x 7 in last twelve months and, save the odd MX issue, has been just fine..indeed a couple of times, rather good.

Reckon most of the moaners here have a biz jet aspiration on a Y budget.

[ExXB]

TCU, this thread started on the subject of BA's piss-poor customer service. Specifically lying about reroute options available tp passengers whose flights were cancelled in the IT debacle.

This moaner is still is of the view that BA's customer service is crap. In this regard the locos look like Angels, in comparison.

[KelvinD]

At this time (07:18 BST), we have Willie Walsh on Radio 4 telling us just how well they are doing and how passengers are still flocking to the airline.