Integrated flight school help.

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

So i'm in a position now where i have been offered an interview for two separate flight school sponsorship/tagged schemes; Airways Aviation's £35k scholarship and CTC's EZY MPL. I want to assume a best case scenario where I am offered both and see what people think about the options. I want to be in a position where I can make an informed decision should this situation come to fruition.

Here are the facts:

CTC EZY MPL:

£109000 + living expenses
A320 TR
Starting salary circa £38k on CTC FlexiCrew, then after 12-36 months a permanent EZY contract.
The big one for me is it is a relativly secure job with a clear career path ahead.
CTC produces a good cadet pilot to a standard that EZY are happy to take on with low hours. For a very high price.


Airways Aviation Scholarship:

£54950 (after £35000 deduction) + Living expenses + Potential TR expense once employed.
CPL ME IR MCC/JOC (fATPL)
From my research Airways aviation's presence in the UK is very new. They are however an established flight school with locations in Aus, the Gold Coast, Spain and the middle east. Their school in Oxford was impressive; nice new shiny facilities. Obviously no where near the size of CTC in Southampton, but it did look professional. I understand that the UK operation was previously Atlantic Flight Training, based at Coventry. My biggest concern is the transition from flight school to airline, especially considering Brexit uncertainty. The EZY MPL does have that crucial link between finishing training and securing employment, but is that worth the large price difference?.


My funding is a combination of personal savings/family/bank loans.

I'd love to hear people's opinions, as currently I'm only working off my own judgements.

[Speedbird148]

BVB,

I'm in a similar situation, as are many I'm sure.

For me it would boil down to financing the course. If you are confident you can fund the EZY MPL then there is a lot less uncertainty surrounding that route.

[gbotley]

Out of interest, does Airways incorporate accomodation in to their costs?

At this point I'd also look at it more from the standpoint of job security. You refer to this yourself and at this time, with the recent announcement, easyJet do seem to be rather secure given the current situation in Europe. I for one can't see them placing orders for A321 if they weren't overly confident. I guess it then comes down to financing for it you can finance the former and secure the offer then it would make more sense from that standpoint alone. Re: Flexicrew, from multiple crew members I know of, it's likely to be long gone before you'd join the line. Salaries inferred by Pilot Career News are more typical.

Back to Airways... what sort of links do they have with the airlines? I don't know much about them really so don't know if they're just another school or do in fact have close ties to European airlines?

All the best.

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

Thanks Speedbird and gbotley.

Airways doesn't include accommodation in the UK but it does for the basic flight training in Spain.

My leaning was towards CTC but I am trying to square the cost difference. If i did take the Airways route then there is also the final salary to consider. For example I could end up at RYR with a comparable salary but with a TR to fund, or at Flybe with less salary and a bonded TR, or a smaller operation. I know i wouldn't be able to pick and choose once trained as I would need to start working to service a loan. In general, I don't think a salary of £38 is likely for most new fATPL holders with 200hrs, unless you go through a tagged scheme/big expensive school.

I'm in no doubt that the quality of training offered will be identical at both schools. However CTC seems like an investment in a career, whereas Airways is more of a gamble with a smaller (but still significant) initial investment.

Or am i totally blinkered to the real world?

[Officer Kite]

My most sincere advice is not to train unless on a cadet programme. They are opening a lot now, there is absolutely no need to rush in and take the massive gamble that is training on your own with no one's backing. I understand the urge to get training, I have been there. I am also beyond thankful that I never did it. Good things come to those who wait!

[gbotley]

I am not shunning smaller schools or modular in this comment as i've never attended them, but from my experience at CTC it seems to be incredibly geared to the commercial operation from the get go. In fact, a few PPL guys have said how they're essentially having to relearn techniques and/or new things given they'd not necessarily covered it before -- and that's in the PPL equivilant stages. I think you'd be right in your statement and I'd agree with Officer Kite that if you get the opportunity for a tagged scheme i'd go with it. You'd be crazy not to in this industry.

If i'm totally honest, i think you've answered your own question have you not?

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

My most sincere advice is not to train unless on a cadet programme. They are opening a lot now, there is absolutely no need to rush in and take the massive gamble that is training on your own with no one's backing. I understand the urge to get training, I have been there. I am also beyond thankful that I never did it. Good things come to those who wait!

I've only ever applied to tagged cadet schemes, I've been to the final stages of Virgin and BA. I have had enough rejections to last me a lifetime!

However I applied to Airways Aviation as £35k cant be sniffed at. Then again for £55k I could take a modular route and be no better/worse off. I'm starting to wonder if it is a bit of a marketing stunt to get people through the door.

Thanks

[Reverserbucket]

BVB, You've answered the question yourself; which option gives you the chance of a a permanent EZY contractI appreciate your question is largely about cost but frankly, anyone offered a place on a mentored scheme that doesn't take it in favour of either of the alternatives you mention must be naïve. CTC is a machine geared towards filling right-hand seats - they market a recognised and reasonably mature product and are as close to a guarantee of achieving your goals as you will currently find. Don't hang around, the market is showing signs of slowing down and recruitment will tail off sharply; watch BA for indicators.

[Officer Kite]

I have had enough rejections to last me a lifetime!

CTC Qatar - final stage (rejected twice)
Aer Lingus - final stage (rejected twice)
CityJet - Final stage rejected
easyJet (rejected once at final interview, initially accepted second time but then rejected again with the personality test fiasco at OAA)

Accepted on my 8th attempt, got my airline backing and paying a lot less than every one of the above schemes (Bar Aer Lingus)

As I said, keep going!

[BAe 146-100]

Don't hang around, the market is showing signs of slowing down and recruitment will tail off sharply; watch BA for indicators.

Very true, the last few years have seen unprecedented hiring of low hour pilots something which hadn't happened for over a decade. There will always be a demand for rated and experienced guys but the guys who are just looking to get qualified need to snap up a tagged scheme if you can get it. Because you only have to do a search on here not too long ago and you will see plenty of guys un tagged who never found a job or resorted to expensive p2f schemes (which are not nearly as available as they once was). Hiring goes in cycles, and who knows if this cycle is coming to the end or not.

Bottom line, if you can afford the financing and pass tagged is the fastest and secure way to a jet.

[Reverserbucket]

not too long ago and you will see plenty of guys un tagged who never found a job or resorted to expensive p2f schemes Recency is key to finding that first job - as demand decreases and entry standards increase, those who have not secured type rated employment will need to renew their Class 1's, ME IR and try to maintain some level of currency.
The need to spend some time in a sim to practice interview profiles should also be considered. This is a costly process and in my experience, many that don't find a job in the first two years, give up. I know many integrated graduates who, despite the hardship endured and cost of training etc. have never been employed in a flying role; I spoke to a couple of guys recently who have given up looking because they can't see themselves ever meeting application recency requirements after two years of trying. Those who could afford it tried the path of P2F and interestingly, I also know two former P2F customers who are no longer employed as flightcrew after their initial 500 hrs. As said, and for the UK at least, BA is a good predictor of pilot recruitment - their demand generates significant movement within the industry. Ask yourself what they are doing this year then look at the history of BA recruitment over the past forty years and compare it with the rest of the market?

[WASALOADIE]

"You get what you pay for", go cheap, get cheap initially and maybe costs you more later. Look beyond the paint and carpet it could be all smoke and mirrors.

[byrondaf]

easyJet MPL is one of the best schemes around in my humble opinion. Job at the end of it, decent salary prospects, flexicrew is disappearing this year so £41k salary, command within 5/6 years, potentially a base near home...go for it. Yes there's cheaper options but like you say, by the time you've added a 30k type rating that most a320/b737 ratings are charged at...the security is surely worth it?

If i was offered MPL when i went through I'd have jumped at it. I went through untagged and got a job quickly, but it's not the same for everyone i know.

Good luck in whatever route you choose!

[byrondaf]

And Officer Kite, congratulations! Your determination is commendable :ok:

[Officer Kite]

Thank you Byrondaf!

The aim of my post is to make those who think they have failed more than a few times to realise that if they genuinely feel they have what it takes then they should keep going! :)