RAF WSOp application advice

[tl202]

Hi all, I'm currently very conflicted on whether the time is right for me to apply for a WSOp position with the RAF and am wondering whether anyone on here could give their thoughts.

Essentially, I am 26 years old, torn between whether to apply now with the RAF or take 2 years working abroad. Up until recently, I had always planned to go to Canada on a temporary work visa for 2 years, return when I was 29, and apply with the RAF. Recently however, I have heard from several people that you are less likely to pass selection if you are closer to the maximum age restriction. If anyone on here had any insight on this I would be incredibly grateful? In an ideal world I would be able to do both but with age deadlines on both options I recognise this might not be possible.

One more query, I recall reading somewhere that if you pass stages of selection then your results stand for a year if you do not accept a position immediately. My reason for asking is that if I go through the selection process now, after applying for the visa I am interested in (which there is no guarantee of receiving), I can then make a more informed decision end of the year when I know for certain which paths are open to me.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[Door Slider]

Tl202,

It's a difficult question as you have to do what you feel is right for you. However, WSOp recruitment is at at a historic high at the moment due to older platforms being extended and new platforms coming into service. I would imagine that this will be the case for at least a few years.

26 is a good age to join as NCA leaving it until 29 as a direct entrant is leaving it a bit late but that's only my opinion. Applying at 29 will not be detrimental to your chances of being selected, you will still be able to serve a minimum of 12 years which is all the RAF are looking for initially.

I believe that your aptitude scores are valid for one year according to friends who have been through the system recently.

I don't know what your plan is in Canada but as a WSOp you will travel the world anyway, I would reel off a list off places I have visited in the last 12 months but that would just be showing off.

You only live once do what feels right, good luck.

[chinook240]

Unless you are confident you'll pass the aptitude and medical tests first time, I wouldn't delay. My son started applying in his mid 20's and has taken years to get thro the medical system run by Capita.

[Avtur]

If you are really that interested and want to be a WSOp, you should do it now for many reasons.

[Door Slider]

I'd give it a miss if I were you. It's a non job.

Considering the roles and variety of aircraft open to NCA that's quite a sweeping statement. Given that this chap is looking for advice from people doing the job, may I ask what your NCA role is or what involvement you have had with NCA?

[camelspyyder]

I'd give it a miss if I were you. It's a non job.

Yeah, I was told that as well at Biggin Hill in 1980 by a bitter knocker going for his ground commission. Luckily I ignored him, and am just about to retire after 30+ years as NCA.

[Pontius Navigator]

You don't say what your two years in Canada will involve. It could increase your experience and employability if it was seen to develop leadership skills. I know of a wg cdr engineer who worked in Antarctica and the oil exploration in Arabia before joining.

[betty swallox]

Please don't listen to heli-wings.

The WSOp job is immensely satisfying, challenging and fulfilling. And it's bloody interesting.

I'd recommend it extremely highly. I'm not a WSOp but fly daily with these utterly professional aviators.

Do it!

[PingDit]

Apply now. It's a brilliant job with some of the best in the world (Although after 39 years as NCA I'm a bit biased). Bearing in mind that they want the best, how will you feel competing against 18 year olds in physical fitness? Sure you want to leave it another couple of years?

[Adam Nams]

how will you feel competing against 18 year olds in physical fitness?
A few cries of 'keep up at the back' will help out, I'm sure. :ok:


I was NCA for 24 years, am still in rotary and enjoying the job. My advice would be to go for it now. You will still have time to travel later. Best of luck.

[Seedin]

I am in the application process for WSOp right now and it's fair to say it has been going quite quickly for me (in comparison to others). Provided I pass everything I am likely to start training by October/November.

I was NCA for 24 years, am still in rotary and enjoying the job. My advice would be to go for it now. You will still have time to travel later. Best of luck.

Rotary WSOp sounds like a fantastic job however I am trying to lean more towards the SO side of things and hopefully work on the new P-8 aircraft.

[Bladdered]

Chinook240 - don't you mean C(R)apita :mad: . RPP a complete disaster and the MoD PMs should get grip quickly else people like tl202 will quickly become disenchanted during the application process.

[Bugs to forty]

You don't say what your two years in Canada will involve. It could increase your experience and employability if it was seen to develop leadership skills. I know of a wg cdr engineer who worked in Antarctica and the oil exploration in Arabia before joining.

But if you apply now, you'll do CBAT and know if it's actually an option. If you fail, try again in 12 months. I'd say do your expeditions when you have a realistic plan.

[5aday]

If you manage to get this job, just use it as a stepping stone. There are much better careers leading to a much improved way of life. Get a decent pension scheme and never take your eyes off that ball.
5aday.

[tl202]

Crumbs, take one evening away from the PC and plenty of reading material to come back to! Thanks for all the responses.

In answer to the question of what I would plan to do in Canada, I would be looking at a combination of archaeology (my current profession), and volunteer work. Whilst obviously I don't want to make any assumptions about passing/failing any one part of selection, I would think that my logical weak link is a lack of leadership experience and I would be looking to gain experience here abroad.

Just going over my thoughts, my primary concern RE the visa is that you are only eligible until your 30th birthday. With the WSOp limit being 32 my natural inclination has always been to go for the visa first. I don't see my fitness being an issue at all in late 20s but am concerned about getting caught up in the system or failing at the interview stage after returning and having to really cut it fine to reapply. I believe I will take the approach of going for CBAT and seeing how I do, then taking some time to assess the situation. Would it count against me at interview stage if I had held off progression after CBAT?

Thanks again.

[ancientaviator62]

The advice I would give you is simply to just apply. It was the advice I gave all my 'troops'. There are far too many people who later in life utter the words 'if only'. I did 35 years as an ALM and have no regrets at all about my decision, retiring 20 years ago as a Spec Aircrew S/L.
Good luck.

[Lima Juliet]

Good advice AA62. I wish I had applied and joined earlier at 18 rather than 22.

For tl202 - I would advise going for it as early as possible. You can always dig when you leave and I know some guys have done a bit of digging at old aircraft crash sites and also when stationed at Akrotiri - so you could carry on as an amateur digger after you join. If you fail your selection then you have a further chance to go away and come back - leave it too long and you'll only get one shot.

Good luck

LJ :ok:

[ancientaviator62]

One more thing to consider. Recruitment is not static (they only take what the need at any given time) it can and does fluctuate as to educational requirements and especially age . If you wait too long you may find the goal posts are out of sight.

[muppetofthenorth]

Hate to burst your bubble, but have you checked the residency requirement for WSOp?

From the RAF careers site:
"To meet RAF residency requirements, you should have been a UK Resident for a minimum of five years immediately preceding application, and have spent no more than 28 days per year outside the UK within those five years."

[downsizer]

Residency can be waived. Unless you've been to some "exotic" places it isn't a show stopper. However onus is on the applicant to produce police records, itineraries, addresses etc for their time abroad.

FWIW, I think the OP should apply now. They might totally bomb CBAT anyway making it a moot point.

[muppetofthenorth]

Residency can be waived. Unless you've been to some "exotic" places it isn't a show stopper. However onus is on the applicant to produce police records, itineraries, addresses etc for their time abroad

I know, but it adds significant time to an already not-exactly-rapid application stream. If he does go away and then gets caught up in that when he returns he might time out before getting a chance to start training.

[Tiger_mate]

I did a tour teaching AAITC as a secondary job. Those students over the age of 25 struggled mentally and physically compared to the young thrusters. That there is any debate with regards to application timings with the OP demonstrates a lack of commitment. To succeed as NCA requires focused commitment with no distractions. Those students that got themselves recoursed or chopped invariably had a conflict of interest that prevented 100% focus on their brevet. Furthermore; it does not matter how fit you are: You are not fit enough to cruise AAITC.

[Seedin]

I did a tour teaching AAITC as a secondary job. Those students over the age of 25 struggled mentally and physically compared to the young thrusters. That there is any debate with regards to application timings with the OP demonstrates a lack of commitment. To succeed as NCA requires focused commitment with no distractions. Those students that got themselves recoursed or chopped invariably had a conflict of interest that prevented 100% focus on their brevet. Furthermore; it does not matter how fit you are: You are not fit enough to cruise AAITC.

I assume you mean NCAITC? Yes I have heard horror stories about the fitness that is contained in that training course. I only hope I can be fit enough to keep up with the rest of the pack!

[ancientaviator62]

Tiger mate makes a good point. When I did the PSO course I learned that there was a distinct correlation between age and success in any of the aircrew branches. The younger you are at the start the better. Of course there will always be exceptions to this rule.

[Top Bunk Tester]

TM I partially agree with what you say, I was 30 when I went through AAITC (Now NCAITC) in 1990 and had already served 12 years, I wished I had applied earlier but was realistic enough to realise I wasn't ready mentally until then. Never having been a gym bunny, I trained for 6 months before the course start, just running (read jogging a mile then throwing up in the early days) with and without webbing kit. Yes, I struggled badly physically but was encouraged, dragged, pushed by my fellow coursemates, for which I will always be grateful, plus I think we were the only course upto that point that never got a weekend off during the period, mainly due to the facist flight cdr, the only voice of reason being the AAITC DI FS (he knows who he is and we are still in touch). I reciprocated for the help given to me physcally, by assisting those younger members that were struggling mentally with the course. Don't get me wrong, they all had the apptitude, but some found the regime and the mental pressure very tough. With maturity, I found this aspect a breeze, and entered the course knowing that it was all scripted even down to the various bollockings we recieved, so could react with an appropriate sense of humour (OK, and sometimes an innapropriate level of sarcasm, but that was down to me sussing that the Flt Cdr was a w*nker very early on in the course, since born out by all those who knew him). So bottom line, the best course I've ever taken, it is most definately not an attendance course, and I made friends there for life. Everyone will find some aspect of the course very challenging, but play to your strengths, and remember 'nil carborundum illigitimae'

[t7a]

I've read this thread with some interest. I left the service some 27 years ago and I have to confess that I haven't got a clue WTF people are talking about. NCA - non commissioned aircrew?? AAITC - not a Scooby, likewise NCAITC (unless it's non- commissioned AAITC), PSO course - used to be Personal Staff Officer. AAITC DI FS - is that something to do with Flight Sergeant Drill Instructors?


Come on guys - give us oldies a chance to keep up!!

[t7a]

P.S. - WSOPS were still navigators when I left!!

[Herod]

Come on guys - give us oldies a chance to keep up!!

It's been suggested before that there should be a glossary sticky at the top of this forum. Come on mods, open one up. Everybody will be an oldie one day.

[ancientaviator62]

Mea culpa.
PSO in this context is Personnel Selection Officer or it was in my day !
ALM is airloadmaster as it was in my day. S/L is Squadron Leader and Spec Aircrew is Specialist Aircrew.
It is all too easy for some of us to assume everyone else is au fait with some of the abbreviations.

[Top Bunk Tester]

AAITC Airmen Aircrew Initial Training Course which became
NCAITC Non-Commissioned Aircrew Initial Training Course
DI Is and always has been Drill Instructor
DS Directing Staff
FS Is and always has been Flight Sgt
Flt Cdr Flight Commander
ALM Air LoadMaster
AEOp Air Electronics Operator
Eng Air Engineer
WSOP Some new fangled title that devalues the original trades, they now wear a badge not a brevet :)

[tarantonight]

Hi all, I'm currently very conflicted on whether the time is right for me to apply for a WSOp position with the RAF and am wondering whether anyone on here could give their thoughts.

Essentially, I am 26 years old, torn between whether to apply now with the RAF or take 2 years working abroad. Up until recently, I had always planned to go to Canada on a temporary work visa for 2 years, return when I was 29, and apply with the RAF. Recently however, I have heard from several people that you are less likely to pass selection if you are closer to the maximum age restriction. If anyone on here had any insight on this I would be incredibly grateful? In an ideal world I would be able to do both but with age deadlines on both options I recognise this might not be possible.

One more query, I recall reading somewhere that if you pass stages of selection then your results stand for a year if you do not accept a position immediately. My reason for asking is that if I go through the selection process now, after applying for the visa I am interested in (which there is no guarantee of receiving), I can then make a more informed decision end of the year when I know for certain which paths are open to me.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Mate,

As one who turned left, rather than right, many years ago - take note. If you have the ability, you will probably get there. If you take the Canada option, you may find the WSOp may have been pulled when you get back. Be assured HMG will do what they want.
If you try WSOp first and it doesn't work out, Canada will still be there (providing Trump is controlled😁).

If I were you, I would put Canada into second place - 100mph. Believe me, I have been there - in more ways than one. Good luck with whatever choice you make - life normally works out, but as has been alluded to above - what if could come into play here in 25 years time.

All The Best,

TN.

[muppetofthenorth]

AAITC Airmen Aircrew Initial Training Course which became
NCAITC Non-Commissioned Aircrew Initial Training Course


Hasn't it changed to NCOITC to reflect that air traffic Sgts are there too?

[Seedin]

Hasn't it changed to NCOITC to reflect that air traffic Sgts are there too?

Not as far I am aware. The RAF are still officially calling it "NCAITC" according to their website.

[Seedin]

P.S. - WSOPS were still navigators when I left!!

The need for navigators is no longer required! All the navigation is done by computers now. At least on the more modern aircraft.

[Tiger_mate]

P.S. - WSOPS were still navigators when I left!!

No they were not - they were WSO or Weapons System Officer.

WSOp is Weapons System Operator = MACr/SNCO.

[charliegolf]

I am NOT looking to open a can of worms here, but do air trafficers who fly go via OASC?

[Top Bunk Tester]

Hasn't it changed to NCOITC to reflect that air traffic Sgts are there too?

Don't tell me they're going to get a 'badge' too :(

[camelspyyder]

Some "non-aircrew" trades get a badge and more money than NCA.
e.g.
IA 's who are on flying duty, say on 5 Sqn, get supplement 3 wages and RRP.

[muppetofthenorth]

Don't tell me they're going to get a 'badge' too :(

I don't believe so, it was simply recognition that as they too were going to become SNCOs despite only being out of Halton 5 minutes they ought to have a bit more training.
Nothing wrong with that.

[Unchecked]

I haven't bothered reading all the replies but I was the same age as you when I decided to join. It's not too late. Applied at 26, initial app rejected, told to wait a year and do some stuff to make me "more rounded", which I did. Re-applied, great success, started at Halton 2 weeks before my 27th birthday. Had a ball since - 2 tours on rotary and now on my second fixed wing tour. Just go for it and enjoy it, leave the cynical bollocks for later. The flying will be awesome and the mates of all ages you will meet and share experiences are true mates for life.

[Door Slider]

IA 's who are on flying duty, say on 5 Sqn, get supplement 3 wages and RRP.

Do they get RRP(F) or RRP(FC)?

[mr brown]

Since when did Air Traffic start flying?

[thunderbird7]

Don't forget, you need to be able to do this (https://www.facebook.com/groups/172761752848588/) to qualify.

[Tiger_mate]

Mr Brown

My understanding is that ATC have a fast track to substantial Sgt upon passing the ATC Course and NCAITC. In summary; they followed the same training pipeline as NCA to a ground trade.

[mr brown]

I am NOT looking to open a can of worms here, but do air trafficers who fly go via OASC?

Thanks Tiger Mate, I'm aware of that, it was this comment that mentioned ATC fg that was new to me?

[tl202]

Thanks again for responses, decided that I have nothing to lose by applying now. Going to give it my best and if I get told to go and get 'more rounded' experience as happened to Unchecked, then that'll be a good opportunity for the traveling/volunteering.

Hadn't considered the residency issue that muppetofthenorth mentioned so thank's for highlighting that. Even if there are ways to circumvent that barrier, it's definitely worth considering.

[The Old Fat One]

I'd give it a miss if I were you. It's a non job.

Gibraltar, Iceland, Norway, Denmark, Holland, Germany, Spain, France, Italy (mainland and Sicily), Greece (mainland), Malta, Cyprus, Oman, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Canary Islands, Azores, Ascension, USA (all of the Eastern Seaboard border to border and Hawaii), Canada (Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, Vancouver Island), Indonesia, Fiji & Australia.

Many of me muckers will have a shedload more, but I confess I was I a bit of a slacker when it comes to collecting the old jolly ticks.

Pensions nae bad for a non job either.

[NDW]

Thanks again for responses, decided that I have nothing to lose by applying now. Going to give it my best and if I get told to go and get 'more rounded' experience as happened to Unchecked, then that'll be a good opportunity for the traveling/volunteering.

Hadn't considered the residency issue that muppetofthenorth mentioned so thank's for highlighting that. Even if there are ways to circumvent that barrier, it's definitely worth considering.



Would be great to hear as to how his application is progressing. Hope it's going well, OP.

[Jayand]

Gibraltar, Iceland, Norway, Denmark, Holland, Germany, Spain, France, Italy (mainland and Sicily), Greece (mainland), Malta, Cyprus, Oman, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Canary Islands, Azores, Ascension, USA (all of the Eastern Seaboard border to border and Hawaii), Canada (Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, Vancouver Island), Indonesia, Fiji & Australia.

Many of me muckers will have a shedload more, but I confess I was I a bit of a slacker when it comes to collecting the old jolly ticks.

Pensions nae bad for a non job either.

Travel is of course an essential part of the job and a big draw for many, visiting the above list makes it look very glamorous, and sometimes it is but many times visits to these places will be fleeting and unglamorous.
I could add a similar list but with the addition of a many great crap holes that I couldn't get out of quick enough, lots of visits to dry, sandy parts and other places not seen in any holiday locations.

[The Old Fat One]

I think you might have overthought my point old chap :)

I could of course bold all the ones where I found "glamour" (admittedly, frequently somewhat "fleeting")...but that might come over a tad immodest ;)