Biggin Hill

[noneya]

Any of you frequent Londoners care to give your view on Biggin Hill?

Specifically..
1. Personal accounts of the FBO and staff... How is the new facility?
2. Customs. is their procedure on the aircraft or in the terminal?
3. Is Tax Free items able to be processed with the Customs on departure?

I know it is not 24 hours...
and I have been in and out of there but it was years ago in our GIV. Now with our G650, Luton seems to think that the parking is made of Gold. I see no reason to spend and extra 7K pounds more to stay in Luton v's Biggin Hill, if the drive time is the same to the principles hotel..

Please looking for anyone with recent experiences to shed some light on the operations at Biggin before we give it another shot.

Thanks
J

[500 above]

For what it's worth...

Our operation finds Biggin to be the best London area airport for ease of use, not just cost. Luton has got very busy, the service from the 'new' Signature FBO at Luton is shambolic. The only benefit of Luton for us (and you guys) is that Gulfstream are there. If you can plan some maintenance whilst visiting, and are on Gulfstream's apron or in the hangar you will not pay parking fees. Harrods Aviation are now our preferred handler at Luton.

When Rizon Jet had an FBO at Biggin Hill, it was second to none. Signature have since taken it over, and ruined it. The service really slipped.

The choice at Biggin Hill nowadays is Signature or Biggin Hill airport handling. In the past, immigration have visited the aircraft when we have used Signature. I'm not too sure whether they will visit the aircraft if you use Biggin handling (the airports own handling). I seem to remember that customs/immigration had a desk as you enter the terminal.

The airport is planning to add an RNAV approach soon, in addition to the ILS on the other end. Operating hours have recently been extended.

There are many options for crew hotac nearby. Signature (and Rizon Jet in the day) seem to prefer the Croydon Park hotel, it's a bit run down but fine for a night or two to be honest. The hotel is a five minute walk in to town. There is a Hilton and a Ramada nearby also. London is easy on the train from a station five minutes away from Biggin Hill.

I'm not 100% sure about the tax free item's, but certainly in the past this was possible.

[Old Age Pilot]

London is easy on the train from a station five minutes away from Biggin Hill.

Which station would that be? The nearest station I know is Orpington, which is definitely not five minutes away, unless you intend to get a helicopter shuttle! Fifteen minutes at the very least by the time you've negotiated through Farnborough...on a GOOD day :)

[The Matron]

Which station would that be? The nearest station I know is Orpington, which is definitely not five minutes away, unless you intend to get a helicopter shuttle! Fifteen minutes at the very least by the time you've negotiated through Farnborough...on a GOOD day :)

The nearest station is 4 miles away:

"Station name
Hayes (Kent);
Distance from station
4.00 milesApprox. time by bus
0.00 minutesStation name
Chelsfield;
Distance from station
4.20 milesApprox. time by bus
0.00 minutesStation name
Woldingham;
Distance from station
4.30 milesApprox. time by bus
0.00 minutesStation name
Bromley South;
Distance from station
6.00 milesApprox. time by bus
20.00 minutes"

The above courtesy of National Rail.

[chevvron]

Try Farnborough Airport (Hampshire not Kent) instead.
NB: The Farnborough mentioned above is a town in Kent with the same name.
5 min from Farnborough main station for Waterloo; 10 min from North Camp or Farnborough North stations for Guildford or Reading; 5 min from M3 motorway to London or Basingstoke.

[Sepp]

I thought Biggin was the subject of the discussion, not Farnborough? Hayes station is pretty close to Biggin, ditto Warlingham etc.

[500 above]

Farnborough is expensive by comparison. Very expensive. Plus, it's easier to get in to London from Biggin.

Old Age Pilot, Bromley South station. 17 minutes to London Victoria.

[Art E. Fischler-Reisen]

There are many options for crew hotac nearby. Signature (and Rizon Jet in the day) seem to prefer the Croydon Park hotel, it's a bit run down but fine for a night or two to be honest. The hotel is a five minute walk in to town. There is a Hilton and a Ramada nearby also. London is easy on the train from a station five minutes away from Biggin Hill.

The Croydon Park Hotel is just three minutes walk from the East Croydon railway station. It's about 15 minutes (£20) by taxi from Biggin Hill.

[noneya]

Thank you for your write up 500 Above.

I 100% agree about the Gulfstream MX. That is nice, but we also are a Harrods customer, and GAC loves to charge a road team fee to us to come across the ramp!:ugh: Harrods is good about towing us over if they can.

We are going to give it another shot next week. Hopefully the service is good and principle will like it, because the ramp fees are awesome.

J

[sycamore]

Or you could try North Weald....

[chevvron]

Farnborough is expensive by comparison. Very expensive. Plus, it's easier to get in to London from Biggin.

Large hotels on airfield and the old RAE site and other smaller ones within 5 min.

[rightbank]

Or you could try North Weald....

Unlicensed airfield with no instrument approach facilities or runway lights

[OXF ATC]

Just for fair balance, we're biased (obviously), but try Oxford (OXF/EGTK), often ignored in these threads but just won 'Best Business Aviation Airport' last week in European Biz Av awards, has 06:00 to midnight capability, seven days and has several daily G650 users already. An hour from London by fast M40 road or for crew 55 mins to center via Oxford Parkway station in Kidlington (new station). However, local HOTAC options excellent with many high-end hotels in just 5 mins drive from airport (Woodstock) or in Oxford (15 mins) at prices well below typical London-region costs. Helicopter shuttles offered at 22 min run to co-owned and operated London Heliport with 50% off fees if taken up as option.

On the costs front, OXF significantly less costly than most 'London' options and hassle-free, IS-BAH certified FBO (one of the very first), EASA-certificated airport, Gulfstream-OEM-trained handlers on ramp. Touch-down to leaving airport can easily be done in under five mins. MX support available too.

[EatMyShorts!]

But what about departing OXF direct longhaul for the States, the is not long enough to cater for the weight/performance, is it? Fuel price? ;)

[500 above]

at prices well below typical London-region costs.Because it's not London, regardless of the renaming it 'London Oxford Airport'! I'd put that in the same boat as the management at Lydd airport renaming it 'London Ashford/Lydd Airport'.

As nice as Kidlington (as it always will be to me) is, it's not close to London by comparison to Biggin or many other airports. However, it is nice to see an airport try to attract more GA visitors - well done on the growth. The airport obviously works for some, as the numbers prove.

An hour from London by fast M40 road or for crew 55 mins to center via Oxford Parkway station in KidlingtonAn hour by road is quite a long way for the boss to be sitting in a car/limo. That's without any motorway congestion. Even 55 minutes for the crew to get to the centre of Oxford is quite a trek should you need to get back to the aircraft at short notice. Horses for courses, I guess.

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/567612-london-oxford-airport.html

http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc/386502-london-oxford-airport.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/galleries/Ive-landed-where-Misleading-airport-names/airport-oxford/

[noneya]

Guys,

The reason for Biggin Hill.... Is the convince for the owner.. Specifically the drive time to his hotel. If it takes longer to get to his hotel than it does from Luton, we are absolutely not interested.

We are just drivers, it really matters none what nice things are around the airport, even though it is nice. As the manager of the plane, my job is to: #1 get him to his destination safely! #2 to the most convenient airport to his ultimate destination, #3 to negotiate the best price to fulfill #1 and #2.

We could continue to Luton and it would be no problem, but then I feel I would be negligent in my duties. Luton and Biggin Hill are both @50 mins drive time to his hotel via car service. Biggin Hill is 17 Pounds per hour to park, Luton is over 100. Biggin can accommodate our plane and we can arrive and leave from there to anyplace we want to go with no issues. We have reviewed all other airports with the same drive criteria, and Biggin Hill is the best option for all in operational issues and pricing.

So my original post was to find out if the service is worth the price. If we had only heard horror stories then I would not make the change from Luton. But thanks to a few posters, we will give Biggin Hill another try and see if it fits our operation and if the owner is happy with the service he receives.

I will revet when we have this trip in the books.

Thanks for all who posted.
J

[OXF ATC]

...An hour by road is quite a long way for the boss to be sitting in a car/limo. That's without any motorway congestion. Even 55 minutes for the crew to get to the centre of Oxford is quite a trek should you need to get back to the aircraft at short notice. Horses for courses, I guess.

It's 15 mins drive into Oxford city centre and 55 mins on a train from OXF to Marylebone station in central London, not into Oxford! Just 5 mins to 10+decent hotels in Woodstock from terminal/FBO for crew.

As a point of note, all depends on where in London the passengers are heading for - it's 30 miles across, east to west and over 20 miles top to bottom - big city! Even London City Airport to London's west end rather than the 'City', can take routinely an hour. If you are an ultra-high-net-worth with a home in Kensington, Notting Hill, Holland Park for example (where an awful lot of London jet owners/users are living), there is nothing in the drive times - 80+ mph all the way to Oxford, or typically under 10 mph to Biggin Hill through urban sprawl and past 30-40 speed or red-light/junction cameras. An hour and a bit at steady motorway speeds is preferred by many to an hour and bit with constant start-stop, congestion, generally unpredictable traffic. M40 fastest motorway in the country and least congested London arterial route.

Add to that rapid turnaround times, minimal ground taxing, minimal processing and swift and easy direct access on/off the airways (at Oxford), no holding, no slots etc. and there's nothing in the overall journey times, front door to front door, compared with most London alternative airports.

[BizJetJock]

But what about departing OXF direct longhaul for the States, the is not long enough to cater for the weight/performance, is it?
For a Global or a Falcon it certainly is. Not for a Challenger, but then neither is Biggin. I don't know re the Gulfstreams

[Hawker 800]

It's 15 mins drive into Oxford city centre and 55 mins on a train from OXF to Marylebone station in central London, not into Oxford! Just 5 mins to 10+decent hotels in Woodstock from terminal/FBO for crew.

Remind me (as an Oxfordshire (not London) born chap but now Biggin based) what Woodstock has to offer crew? A few good pubs and no shops? It's still nearly 10 miles in a cab to Oxford, with no mainstream shops to walk to. Crews don't only want a good hotel. We also want some facilities nearby, not a per diem busting ride away. 10 MPH to/from Biggin? You must have used the wrong cabs.

80+ MPH? Have the limits changed? ��

[dsc810]

They won't be doing 80...or 70 or 60

First they will be in a queue to the Headington hill roundabout off the A40/M40 route.
Next comes the Oxford northern bypass which is invariably queued at the Banbury and Woodstock road roundabouts: so bad is this area that it can be better to go round the entire ring road in the opposite direction to the south and up the west side - which becomes the A34 so has the almost daily crash on it. Much of the ring road has a 50 mph limit on it.
Finally there is the dual carriageway route (A44) from the Oxford ring road to the airport - also with a 50mph limit.

[Tray Surfer]

Guys,

The reason for Biggin Hill.... Is the convince for the owner.. Specifically the drive time to his hotel. If it takes longer to get to his hotel than it does from Luton, we are absolutely not interested.

We are just drivers, it really matters none what nice things are around the airport, even though it is nice. As the manager of the plane, my job is to: #1 get him to his destination safely! #2 to the most convenient airport to his ultimate destination, #3 to negotiate the best price to fulfill #1 and #2.

We could continue to Luton and it would be no problem, but then I feel I would be negligent in my duties. Luton and Biggin Hill are both @50 mins drive time to his hotel via car service. Biggin Hill is 17 Pounds per hour to park, Luton is over 100. Biggin can accommodate our plane and we can arrive and leave from there to anyplace we want to go with no issues. We have reviewed all other airports with the same drive criteria, and Biggin Hill is the best option for all in operational issues and pricing.

So my original post was to find out if the service is worth the price. If we had only heard horror stories then I would not make the change from Luton. But thanks to a few posters, we will give Biggin Hill another try and see if it fits our operation and if the owner is happy with the service he receives.

I will revet when we have this trip in the books.

Thanks for all who posted.
J

Very well put.

I have landed in Biggin once, but it was just a drop off before positioning the aircraft back to base. Signature were OK for what we wanted, polite and friendly, took a bag of trash and we closed up and went. So I can't really offer any more than that.

I don't know what sort of catering options you are looking at, but if you have an FA onboard, all London caterers will of course deliver to Biggin, but if he/she is more of a DIY/shopper, Bromley has everything needed and is not too far away.

If you need any catering info for Biggin, drop me a message. (I am just an FA, I don't work for a caterer or anything.)

[JetPark]

Agree with Tray Surfer. I use Biggin from time to time and have no issues with the Signature Team. They are polite and friendly and can't fault the service. Nice facility too. Don't be drawn in by some of the negative comments - simply not true that service has slipped. Quite the opposite in my experience to be honest. :ok:

[500 above]

Don't be drawn in by some of the negative comments - simply not true that service has slippedI can only speak as I find. In my opinion, the service has slipped. Both of the long serving girls that used to be the 'front' of Signature Biggin have left, and that's a shame. They were both nice efficient and friendly people who had a can do attitude. That attitude/work ethic seems to no longer be there in this particular FBO anymore - maybe they are simply adjusting to Luton's service standards.

Each to their own though. I see you are a great advocate of the company, judging by your posting history.

Looking forward to the OP's feedback on who he used and what he thought of the service.

[noneya]

Well Boys and Girls,

The Biggin Hill trip is now in the books and I am happy to report we had a very successful trip. I was not able to do the trip this time but I did get a report back from the other crew.

1. The staff was very nice, very helpful, and actually took a great interest in seeing to the passenger's and crew's needs both on arrival and departure. - The our crew could not say enough great things about the service, "Best they have ever received in London" The FBO was very inviting and nicely appointed.

2. The boss was happy because customs was very fast, and the hotel ride did not take any additional time.

3. We had a Gulfstream FAST team come to take care of a few minor issues we were having and they also had no issues accessing the plane or receiving any equipment they needed.

Only negatives this trip were know prior to arrival...

1. Coming from the west (KTEB) you have to over fly the airport before being vectored back for the approach. Nothing new here, and it is not normal for us, as we normally come to London from places far to the East :)

2. Parking might be an issue someday as the ramp is small. But was not an issue for us this trip.

3. The drive to the city, as everyone is aware, is not on a motorway but through residential area. Again not unknown, and not an issue time wise, just a fact.

All in all, our passengers and crew loved the experience it will be our new airport of choice while visiting London.

Thanks to everyone who shared their experiences in this tread.

Kind regards,
J