Low flying Hercules

[pettinger93]

About 60 mins ago an apparently un-marked Hercules flew very low from the north over my house on the borders of east and west Sussex. Just short of reaching the scarp of the South Downs, it banked very steeply to the right and flew west at low level just north of the line of the Downs. From my vantage point, less than half a mile north of the Downs, and at an elevation of about 50m, I could see the crest of the Downs (which is at most 200 m) above and much higher than the Hercules. I leave someone else to do the trigonometry, but my guess it could not have been higher than 75 metres above ground level.

2 questions: how would such a machine avoid light aircraft, which are very common in this area, as we are on the approach to Shoreham airport, and also many microlights and hang gliders which operate from the crest of the Downs.? One flew over within 3 or minutes of the departures of the Hercules.

Secondly: what and why would a Hercules be doing these manoeuvres here? Its very rare to see any military activity at all in this area, (outside airshow dates), and even then its usually only an occasional Chinook.

[GipsyMagpie]

About 60 mins ago an apparently un-marked Hercules flew very low from the north over my house on the borders of east and west Sussex. Just short of reaching the scarp of the South Downs, it banked very steeply to the right and flew west at low level just north of the line of the Downs. From my vantage point, less than half a mile north of the Downs, and at an elevation of about 50m, I could see the crest of the Downs (which is at most 200 m) above and much higher than the Hercules. I leave someone else to do the trigonometry, but my guess it could not have been higher than 75 metres above ground level.

2 questions: how would such a machine avoid light aircraft, which are very common in this area, as we are on the approach to Shoreham airport, and also many microlights and hang gliders which operate from the crest of the Downs.? One flew over within 3 or minutes of the departures of the Hercules.

Secondly: what and why would a Hercules be doing these manoeuvres here? Its very rare to see any military activity at all in this area, (outside airshow dates), and even then its usually only an occasional Chinook.

Many of the answers you need are here - old but probably still valid:

UK low flying (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-military-low-flying-presentation).

You'll note that the area you are talking about is close to but not in one of the purple "no low flying" areas over Shoreham. Doubtless they were manoeuvring round that. As for the altitude your estimate is probably quite accurate. The minimum height in the above presentation is 250 ft for Hercules - near enough to your 75m. And as for activity levels, the SE appears to be quite difficult to get to from the rest of the low flying system due to the low flying restrictions over London. But of course not impossible - I'm sure flying over somewhere new is more useful than yet another run up the valleys in Wales.

And with respect to Shoreham, there is a low flying exclusion area round the airfield on that presentation I think. I believe the civil rules prohibit low flying below 500 ft unless landing or taking off. I'm sure Hercules will have some form of traffic warning system too. All of these measures together aren't going to be perfect but the Hercules crew are definitely going to have "avoid hitting a light aircraft" as a big priority.

So necessary, legal and planned in detail. If you are annoyed with it then please paint a sign on your roof pointing them to my house - they're welcome here.

[Brian W May]

Having done a mess of low level in another life, yep 250' MSD is the limit and the flight planning is such that areas of avoidance are taken into consideration.

The nav kit in the later iterations of the Herc are also more sophisticated and it's unlikely they're lost.

Lookout was paramount and they've even got a HUD these days.

No markings may just mean LowViz markings not really observable over greater distances.

Not aware ACAS is used at low level, if I recall it's inhibited below 1000' but there again I'm out-of-date with later developments.

[pettinger93]

Thank you, gentlemen. Was not annoyed by the Hercules, just surprised, as such large low flying (and fast) aircraft are very unusual around here. In fact, it seemed to be rather quieter than most of the aircraft that overfly en route to / from Shoreham. These light aircraft are usually flying higher than the Hercules was, which is consistent with the minimum of 500ft you mention. However, hang gliders , though usually flying to the south of the downs, in the recent northerly winds have been coming over to my side of the hills, and sometimes descending to just where the Hercules was flying. Presumably, they would not be expected to keep to the min 500 feet rule, so the pilots of the Hercules would need to keep a very sharp look out. Would hang gliders show up on the kit that the Hercules would have?

But the sharp banking turn and the flying looked very impressive!

[pasta]

Would hang gliders show up on the kit that the Hercules would have?
Not just hang gliders, but paragliders too. Ridge-soaring paragliders, in particular, could be moving very slowly indeed and at times very close to the terrain. If a Hercules has equipment that can pull those out of the ground clutter, it's definitely not suitable for discussion on a public forum!

[pettinger93]

Indeed, the paragliders are very small and hard to see, even if you know where they are. A case for some very highly trained mark 1 eyeballs. And my experience locally is that not all light aircraft are quite as observant of the 500ft minimum as they perhaps should be. Often low enough for me to see the pilots and read the registration. A close encounter with a low Hercules might encourage better compliance with the rules?

[chevvron]

Could be on the route which takes them overhead Dunsfold on a NWerly track; when I worked in the tower there providing A/G (early 2012) I had one or two call me up doing that.

[BATCO]

No markings may just mean LowViz markings not really observable over greater distances.

Or its from the air corps of the IDF.;)

Shabat shalom
Batco

[Mav5r1k]

Ref rule 5, mentioned above about civilian aircraft not being below 500' it is actually no closer than 500' to any person, vehicle, vessel etc etc not a provision against flying below that ht, obviously in the example given about being able to see the pilot a person was present. But in & of its self bimbling around below 500' in a civil aircraft isn't illegal.