Interrogation awareness or resistance training

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Learned contributors,
I am interested to learn what training or information was made available to aircrew on the "V" Force or R.A.F.G. during the Cold War, with regard to interrogation techniques likely to be faced in the event of capture and what if any training was provided to enable a crew member to resist or deflect any interrogation?
Thanks for your time and trouble.
Be lucky
David
"The Avgasdinosaur "

[Sloppy Link]

Say nothing Baldrick!

[kintyred]

Learned contributors,
I am interested to learn what training or information was made available to aircrew on the "V" Force or R.A.F.G. during the Cold War, with regard to interrogation techniques likely to be faced in the event of capture and what if any training was provided to enable a crew member to resist or deflect any interrogation?
Thanks for your time and trouble.
Be lucky
David
"The Avgasdinosaur "

I cannot answer that question......well someone had to say it!

[c52]

"Don't tell him, Pike!"

[salad-dodger]

just sit them in front of a PC and tell them they're on PPRuNe, some of them'll spill their guts.....:eek:

S-D

[chevvron]

Ask Merv Astles about his 'combat survival' course.

[walter kennedy]

TQ as part of training or selection, rightly, was not made public.

[Tankertrashnav]

Never underwent any training of this nature during my period of aircrew service (1969-77) but I think it was standard practice in RAFG at the time. I understand it wasn't pleasant, but as I said, that's only what I heard, no personal info to impart.

[Pontius Navigator]

All aircrew underwent rigorous sea survival drills before starting their tour. Thereafter deterrent crews were too precious to risk losing any due to illness or injury.

Very occasionally a very small number took part in realistic survival training where they

The rest of the crews were given regular briefing on conduct after capture and a day time only practice in setting up for land survival. As this was more akin to a picnic I am forbidden of saying any more.

I remember one briefing in 1972 where the CSRO was given some stick, sorry Robin.

[Pontius Navigator]

S-D, curiously, in 12 years on the lecture circuit this question has never arisen. Now it has been asked in different ways twice in a !month not counting the double post here.

[KenV]

I can't speak for the RAF guys, but most USN/USAF guys had to complete SERE training (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape). I went thru twice. World wide media seems to condemn such training today as literally "torture". It was certainly very unpleasant but I would not begin to describe/label it as torture.

[Pom Pax]

One must assume that this form of training did not cease at the end of WWII but was on going long before the formation of the V force and enhanced by lessons learnt in Korea and Vietnam.
All I know is that the Lincoln crews were given maps for walking home as most of their targets were beyond their point of no return.

[Herod]

I presume from these posts that Mountbatten no longer does it? I can't say any more.

[Pontius Navigator]

PP, we were certainly shown a Korean war film which included many well known faces. There was also a USAAC film set in Italy I think with two main threads. The enemy would try and divide the crew and suggest the officers were cooperating and getting better treatment. The second was accept any benefits offered - cigarettes, food, drink etc.

As far as the Cold War I don't recall any similar films and minimal training for perhaps obvious reasons.

[ShyTorque]

I presume from these posts that Mountbatten no longer does it? I can't say any more.

Mountbatten was sold some years ago and converted to a civilian housing development.

[RAFEngO74to09]

Defence Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Extraction (SERE) Training Organisation (DSTO) has been at RAF St Mawgan for many years now.

It combined the RAF Survival School (relocated from Mountbatten in 2008), the RN Survival School and the Resistance Training Wing.

https://www.raf.mod.uk/rafstmawgan/aboutus/defenceseretraining.cfm

[gijoe]

Email Andy McNab or his agent - he will tell you.

[NRU74]

[QUOTE=Pontius Navigator;9765731]All aircrew underwent rigorous sea survival drills before starting their tour.

No we didn't, we got pissed the night before, went out on a launch with a hangover, jumped in the sea, struggled to get in an MS 5 or 9 or whatever, got hit by the swell of the boaty thing and went back to Mountbatten for more beer before going to learn how to breathe at RAF Norrh Luffenham.
They did give us a cerificate for our logbooks saying that we had 'with fortitude' or something survived the course !

[AnglianAV8R]

I recall my father describing a briefing he was given about being required to say nowt if he were to be captured by the Russkies...
"Sir, I will talk so much that they won't believe me"

[Basil]

They wouldn't have believed the performance of my operational type! :E

[MACH2NUMBER]

Most RAF Germany aircrew attended the winter survival course at Bad Kohlgrub.in Bavaria. This included 5 days skiing training, 3 days of survival in the very cold woods. Each evening there were lectures on survival, resistance to interrogation etc. The final piece was 24 hours of escape and evasion, pursued by German special forces. If you escaped successfully a helicopter took you back for a hot springs bath. If you failed you got put in a cage to see if you had absorbed the resistance to interrogation lectures!!

[Herod]

When I did the Kholgrub course I was on Wessex, a nice twin-engined helicopter. When winching, the aircraft would descend, so that in the event of a cable-cut the survivor only fell a few feet. At that time the Germans were using the Sycamore, a single-engine machine, and winched from a considerable height. When I told the staff I wasn't going, and explained why, I was allowed to go back with the ground party. Chicken maybe, but my blood-pressure thanked me for it. It's one thing to be hunted all night, quite another to put life and limb in the hands of a helicopter that the RAF had withdrawn some years earlier owing to its propensity to roll over when on the ground.

[charliegolf]

TTN

but I think it was standard practice in RAFG at the time. I understand it wasn't pleasant,

The stuff they taught was the same at Bad K and Mountbatten. At the end of the day, the R to I bit and the conditioning that went with it was certainly uncomfortable, but it did not and could not get near what might be the real thing. What might happen to captured aircrew was skipped over really- there's no point in confirming that they'll stick yer balls in a vice. Rather, they concentrated on not being, 'played' by the interrogators, by sticking to the big four and, "I cannot answer that question".

At Mountbatten, everyone went in the bag, whether they were caught or not. Evaders were given a hot drink and went in the bag at 6 pm.

CG

(Present in the room at Bad K when Pyro Pete shot a Herc loadie with a miniflare!)

[sittingstress]

I have absolutely no idea your Honour :ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

NRU 74, quite, what did I say that you disagreed with? In the real thing you hopefully wouldn't have the hang over, leaky wet suit or none.

And of the latter course, with the mess full of mysterious Russian emigre (well that's what they looked out) it was necessary to pre-load with Riddles as an aid to clearing the gut before the next day.

[Basil]

Main thing I remember about Bad Kohlgrub was a colleague getting off with one of the finishing school girls at our party in the Gasthaus zur Post, maid noticing and reporting followed by commander, chaperone and said maid dashing upstairs in damage limitation attempt. Unfortunately for colleague, they succeeded :E

[BEagle]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/AR_1_zps292f6094.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/nw969/media/AR_1_zps292f6094.jpg.html)

"You don't seem very comfortable. Just answer a few little kvestions and ve can make things much better for you....."

[Rossian]

.....a chap of my acquaintance who did the escape and evasion course was questioned by an interrogator who he assumed was either a CS or an Auxiliary. After the questions which he said were the ones they'd been briefed on and could have come from his service records they suddenly changed tack and were deeply personal stuff not likely to be in records.
He said he then lost the plot and began to believe it was no longer an exercise.
Finally it stopped and he was told the ex was over but he then refused to believe them and stuck with the number rank name bit. It was a day and a half before he "came down". Eventually they brought in the interrogator, who had been one of his school teachers which was where all the really personal stuff had come from. He never really forgave them.

The Ancient Mariner

[Pontius Navigator]

TAM, similar story, they had information about his family and a cold or such which had occurred after startex. This was in the days when the KGB records were believed to be better than PMC.

What price Persec today with Linkln, Facebook and even Pprune. Many wannabes and not a few Ppruners can be identified from what they say here.

[Herod]

There was a sneaky little trick on the Mountbatten course. The idea was that after a couple of days evading, when you are tired and hungry, a "partisan" was to guide you to safety. Needless to say, he was a double agent, and led you into a trap. Supposedly, at the weekend a selected Army unit was told they were going to have a long weekend, starting from lunch on Friday. Mid-morning it was cancelled because the RAF wanted people to act as "enemy" for a course, and the weekend wouldn't start until lunch Saturday. Of course, when they captured us, their mood was far from warm, cuddly and welcoming.

[Lonewolf_50]

I am interested to learn what training or information was made available to aircrew on the "V" Force or R.A.F.G. during the Cold War, with regard to interrogation techniques likely to be faced in the event of capture and what if any training was provided to enable a crew member to resist or deflect any interrogation? "The Avgasdinosaur " Why are you asking?

[Pontius Navigator]

Good question. That said, there is yards of relevant books.

[ShyTorque]

I was once in a room with a "Warsaw Pact" lady who was supposed to be an agent.

Unfortunately for her, I recognised her from many years before when she was on a language course and simply said "Hi, C*****!" (her real Christian name). Game over, one up to the evaders :E

[Melchett01]

TAM, similar story, they had information about his family and a cold or such which had occurred after startex. This was in the days when the KGB records were believed to be better than PMC.

What price Persec today with Linkln, Facebook and even Pprune. Many wannabes and not a few Ppruners can be identified from what they say here.

Yep, I know of a fair few baby pilots who ignored advice about social media and came back from SERE wondering what had happened and metaphorically 'walking funny'. All we could say was 'we did try to warn you but you didn't listen'. Thing is, they got off lightly in comparison to what would have happened in the real world. Social media just makes the Interrogator's job easier if they're professional or more fun if they are toying with you on Ex

[Tiger_mate]

I have stood on both sides of the table and taught E&E at basic flying training. As RAFG Aircrew I did Bad K and got caught by German Alpine troops who were very well prepared for the 'exercise'. I subsequently did the CSRO Course and all that it entailed. To teach the subject with integrity; I worked with the 'enemy' frequently over a three year period. So you could say I have been there, seen it, etc.

Much is not for discussion with anonymous ears on a public forum. Amongst many reasons why is that things may have changed, and my information is now 22 years down the road. On the assumption that points of administration have not changed; I can tell you that all the bad guys know in advance of a prisoner being presented is how many prisoners there are, and the number written on a tag attached to their clothing. Thereafter everything they learn is an own goal. Air Force/Army/Navy lists where the traditional source of information, especially the Army list that included nicknames or known as names, that permitted a personal interaction. The advent of Facebook and LinkedIn were a Godsend for Interrogators, and if you Google 'London Gazette' and your service number, you may be surprised what you find.

The Israeli R2I doctrine was to speak freely and place the deduction of 'truth' with the interrogator. The US embraced a policy of limited release over a set timeline. The disadvantage of the British stiff upper lip is that a UK prisoner talking is almost certainly telling the truth. Gulf War I showed that Tornado wreckage with ejection seats adorned with RAF station names, and two walking aviators didn't actually have to say too much to work out who they were. This issue was prevelent throughout the Cold War.

Ever wondered why the junior rank of RAF Aircrew is a Sgt? Read the Geneve Convention for there lies the answer. Do contemporary enemies abide by said convention? The Jordanian F16 pilot burned alive answered that one.

[Pontius Navigator]

As V-Force we had an unabadged flying suit for Ops. Flying Clothing section regularly tried to compromise us labelling flying suits with COT 96 and the like. They were annoyed when we cut the compromising labels out. They painted the COT number on the bone dome, it look crap and we scraped it off.

An uphill struggle maintaining anonymity.

[charliegolf]

Ever wondered why the junior rank of RAF Aircrew is a Sgt?

No, but as a former lowly Sgt, I'd love to know TM. I have gurgled, to no avail...

CG

[Treble one]

An acquaintance of mine was attatched to a unit who was very much 'prone to capture' during his service. He underwent 'waterboarding' during his E and E training.

[Tiger_mate]

CG - It was accepted during WWII that aircrew, particulary bomber crews, were highly likely to end up dead or a POW. The Geneve Convention clearly states the treatment that is legal for Officers, SNCO, and other ranks. Work of a dangerous or objectionable nature is not permitted for any POW, but junior ranks can be made to work and SNCOs supervise only. Officers were too busy digging tunnels to supervise. It was felt by Govt that as bomber crews would probably be a POW through no fault of their own that they should be protected from subsequent employment shovelling **** in fields. This is why the minimum aircrew rank was Sgt as the war progressed. There was a time early in WWII that air gunners were junior ranks. The rank structure for none-commissioned aircrew was very different then than it is today.

Ref: Waterboarding. I saw a lot of things in SF training and Waterboarding was not one of them. The exercise administration with regarding to holding, questioning techniques, and exercise duration was controlled to the point of paranoia. That is not to say that in times gone by things may not have been different. PM Edward Heath publicly stated that the UK would not employ hoods as blindfolds......

There is truth in the fact that Iraqi officers void of rank were identified by their shoes, and by being invited to dine first. ... and that taking overt notice of your surroundings will get you unwanted attention; whereas head down deflated appearance = grey man.

[MacSheikh]

I recall the general "buzz" for RN ASW was that the most likely scenario was you'd be lined up, the pilot would be shot and the observer, who had knowledge of the "plot", would be invited to enlighten the others in the room!

[Pontius Navigator]

And no doubt why maritime crews were armed with 9mm so we could force a show down when facing a Sverdlov cruiser.

[A_Van]

Sorry for intervening, but IMHO much depends on a kind of a mission. Recall U2 Francis Gary Powers: though he was shot down (being on a spy mission) during a very tense period (psychopathic Khruschev, and also KGB were very spiteful at that time), the end of the story was rather happy for him. It seemed he even did not suffer physically too much because shortly after his return to US he became a test pilot for Lockheed. So, he was right not use a poison he was supplied with.
I assume however that if it were a bomber mission, he would better swallow this medicine in the air.

[charliegolf]

CG - It was accepted during WWII that aircrew, particulary bomber crews, were highly likely to end up dead or a POW. The Geneve Convention clearly states the treatment that is legal for Officers, SNCO, and other ranks. Work of a dangerous or objectionable nature is not permitted for any POW, but junior ranks can be made to work and SNCOs supervise only. Officers were too busy digging tunnels to supervise. It was felt by Govt that as bomber crews would probably be a POW through no fault of their own that they should be protected from subsequent employment shovelling **** in fields. This is why the minimum aircrew rank was Sgt as the war progressed. There was a time early in WWII that air gunners were junior ranks. The rank structure for none-commissioned aircrew was very different then than it is today.

Ref: Waterboarding. I saw a lot of things in SF training and Waterboarding was not one of them. The exercise administration with regarding to holding, questioning techniques, and exercise duration was controlled to the point of paranoia. That is not to say that in times gone by things may not have been different. PM Edward Heath publicly stated that the UK would not employ hoods as blindfolds......

There is truth in the fact that Iraqi officers void of rank were identified by their shoes, and by being invited to dine first. ... and that taking overt notice of your surroundings will get you unwanted attention; whereas head down deflated appearance = grey man.

Thanks for that:ok:

[Motleycallsign]

On the evasion exercise on my CSRO cse I had found a piece of paper with an emblem of four feathers on it. Thinking it might be useful for lighting a fire I kept it. I was 'picked up' before I could use it. All of my interrogaters spent a lot of time asking what it was etc, I could honestly answer 'I can't answer that question' as I did not have a clue as to what it represented. It turned out it was headed paper for a rambling club that had wandered over Dartmoor. Evaders another one up.

[Herod]

PM Edward Heath publicly stated that the UK would not employ hoods as blindfolds.....

They were certainly using them at Mountbatten in 1968. I think the general rule was that they were allowed to use mental techniques within reason, and physical stress, but not physical harm. It defeats the object if an aircrew member does the course and then can't fly for a few months due to a broken limb.

[Tiger_mate]

The trick cyclists believe that the worst thing you can rob someone of is a sense of time - hence one of the first questions in debrief post ex is "What time do you think it is". Dislocation of expectation beforehand being manipulated by the aroma of fried bacon and a natural assumption to associate this with breakfast.

For myself: If I have no control over the events of my life, I do not give a flying **** what time it is.

For others: I have debriefed 'runners' who have pretty much calculated through various means the exact time.
_________________________________________________________
As a victim; an interrogator tried to exploit me having left my poor family without their husband/father. I often wonder if the smug grin in response was indicative of the b*tch having recently left me!!
_________________________________________________________

The problem with such training in the past is that the world has got a lot more ugly since the Cold War; and the assumption of some level of fair play is no longer extant. The Geneve Convention is no longer worth the paper upon which it is written - and in many of the worlds conflicts, the mantra has got to be: 'Do not get caught under any circumstances' - regardless of what action is required to avoid capture.

[Herod]

Tiger_Mate. Spot on with the time. I was in solitary when a clock began chiming. "Ah" thinks I, "a time check". I was OK until the clock struck eleven, twelve, thirteen!

[Lonewolf_50]

The Geneve Convention is no longer worth the paper upon which it is written - Amen, Deacon. That became apparent during the Korean War, and was obvious to all of the guests in the Hanoi Hilton.

[Yellow Sun]

The trick cyclists believe that the worst thing you can rob someone of is a sense of time - hence one of the first questions in debrief post ex is "What time do you think it is". Dislocation of expectation beforehand being manipulated by the aroma of fried bacon and a natural assumption to associate this with breakfast.

An interesting one about time. We do tend to try and keep track and can be misled but just now and again you could quietly "win" a point. On one occasion, quite well into the interrogation phase, I found myself in front of an interrogator who had kept his watch on. I was able to read the time and it accorded with my estimate; a "win". Now you may say that his watch might have been deliberately miss set but the mere fact that I had surreptitiously gleaned some information from the interrogator was a little boost.

the mantra has got to be: 'Do not get caught under any circumstances' - regardless of what action is required to avoid capture.

To which I would add, your chances of escape diminish the longer you leave it after capture.

The only successful escape I am aware of on the CSRO course was a member of the one I was on. After capture we were taken to a collection point, bagged and not very well trussed. One member deduced he was beside a 3 tonner, took the risk and rolled under it. He then very quickly freed himself and dived over a dry stone wall on the other side and made like a very fast snake away from the action. When he judged he was far enough way he hid in the middle of a large bush. After a while the convoy of vehicles departed and on reaching a junction turned left. At that point he made off in the opposite direction.

The point about tagging and counting is a valid one as no one noticed his absence until the handover at the interrogation centre.

YS

[Dan Winterland]

Security is not a dirty word Blackadder!

[thunderbird7]

...bring out the cocker spaniel...

[Just This Once...]

"So JTO, what 3 things will help you during interrogations?" [Hot lecture room at Mountbatten, still feeling the beer from the night before...]

"First has to be my detailed knowledge of tactics, systems and weapons with my fluent Russian as a close second. Third is hard to pick, but hoping for a glass of water as I will be talking a lot."

I found the bag over the head to be quite soothing. Must be the chicken in me.

[ShyTorque]

I'm glad to say that having been an escapee during quite a number of E&E exercises, I never got caught once so never got to experience R to I.

("War story" warning). The closest I got to being caught was on a night E&E when two of us were "bounced" from behind by a party of searchers. We ran, vaulted a wire fence around the farmer's meadow field ahead of us only to see more search force running towards us on the other side. In the melee I quietly lay face down in the grass, just over the fence where we'd crossed. One of the search force came bounding over the fence behind me, trod squarely on my back without realising it was me, then ran off across the field, capturing my crew partner, who had tried to outrun them but hadn't got far. All this commotion attracted the large herd of cows in the field, who came right up to the fence near me and one started sniffing me. From the comments heard from some of the search force they weren't at all used to dealing with cattle and moved back. I lay still for a few minutes, carefully and quietly got to my feet and crouched, which set the cows trotting back across the field. I trotted off in the middle of the herd then just kept going. A while later I sussed out the RV, waited until I knew the exercise was coming to a close then walked quietly in.

I never saw my crewman again until we returned to base. I heard later they had taken him away and tortured him by making him drink NAAFI tea without sugar. But I got hot chocolate!

[Basil]

ShyTorque, Absolute result! Bet the hunter was heifer than you expected but pity about the udder guy; thinking whether to rescue him must have put you on the horns of a dilemma :}

[Wwyvern]

A long time ago, I was in the Wessex crew supporting a TA SAS escape and evasion exercise in Denmark.
We were told that the interrogators were all bank managers, as they were best placed to recognise false info being given by the suspect.
PS None of the SAS was captured. We had to collect “volunteers” from the runners to be guinea pigs.

[Basil]

Could tell more funnies but why instruct a possible enemy?
Don't forget that many of our present potential enemies are not as well experienced or informed as major powers.

[Nigerian Expat Outlaw]

As pilots in N.I. we were issued with a Browning 9mm and two full mags plus a piece of french chalk. We were told that in the event of a forced landing or other unscheduled event we should use the chalk to draw a line around the aircraft. If anyone threatened us we were to inform them that if they crossed the chalk line we would shoot. Not a good idea !

The ultimate Escape/Evasion/Resistance to interrogation training by UK military entities is undergone by the Special Forces. I supported one of their exercises in the 80s and it was truly barbaric.

Could say what I saw but then..........

NEO

[charliegolf]

As pilots in N.I. we were issued with a Browning 9mm and two full mags plus a piece of french chalk. We were told that in the event of a forced landing or other unscheduled event we should use the chalk to draw a line around the aircraft. If anyone threatened us we were to inform them that if they crossed the chalk line we would shoot. Not a good idea !



In amongst all the stuff there, all I can see is trying to draw acircle around a helicopter with chalk. On grass!

CG

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Thanks everybody for your time and trouble. Your discretion is understood and appreciated. Just one last point please, where is or was Mountbatten?
Be lucky
David

[Dundiggin']

Mountbatten was at Plymouth.

[Pontius Navigator]

Mountbatten was at Plymouth.
Overlooking Plymouth Sound on the eastern side. A superb mess standard design but modified as the grounds didn't permit wings. It had 3 stories the top floor in its day housed AOC 19 Gp who was also SOUMAR and COMAIRCHAN IIRC.

V-bomber crews crew up before the OCU. An F4 once woke up in the mess flower bed, I can't remember if it was from the first floor or the second after 19 Gp disbanded. Physically there was no injury but the trick cyclists wanted to find out why he had no recall of the high dive.

[ricardian]

Overlooking Plymouth Sound on the eastern side.

My last posting before demob in 1973 was as an instructor at 3 Maritime HQ Unit RAuxAF. When my posting to that unit arrived my boss (Hunter pilot, QFI) thought it was somebody's idea of a joke as the RAuxAF had been disbanded in the 1950s. In fact there were still 3 such units comprising telegraphists, wireless operators, teleprinter operators, operations clerks and sundry other trades. Lovely place to work, my bunk on the 2nd floor had double sash windows and a view overlooking Plymouth Sound and Staddon Heights.

Two airmen's blocks at the back of the photo, airmen's mess & WRAF block to their left.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/09/22/article-0-1829A56400000578-899_634x346.jpg

[Dundiggin']

I remember years' ago, a restored Catalina landed in the Plymouth Sound and snotted one of the buoys. This put a hole in the Catalina which unfortunately started to sink! Luckily, quick thinking by everyone there, the Catalina was saved from sinking when it was moved to the ramp at Mountbatten and pulled up the ramp to be accommodated in the hanger. The effort sustained in pulling it up the sloping ramp burnt out two landrover clutches, apparently. The Cat was repaired eventually and sent on its' way. Before it departed I was allowed to have a look inside and was well impressed with the beautifully fitted interior. Kid leather - most impressive!

[safetypee]

A related article in New Scientist. This is a valuable source for instructors and those interested in surprise and startle management - preparing for the unknown, which is relevant to many situation is flying.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23431250-400-ready-for-anything-the-best-strategy-to-survive-a-disaster/
Subscription required for full article, but some selected quotes:
... unknown prejudices can dictate your actions.
... a checklist for the mind.
“No one gets smarter under stress. The question really is who gets dumb faster.”

[Haraka]

"I know nothing" about interrogation awareness being taught at Mounbatten.
However better situational awareness might have avoided an incident c.1952 when the pilot of a Sea Otter, part occupied by Haraka Senior, elected one misty morning to take off up the River Plym to return to St.Eval.
Unfortunately they all never got further than the Laira Railway bridge, which appeared as he was comfortably on the step, and which he succeeded in then flying into. Luckily the only personal injury was to the pilot's ego (post the shocked utterance of " What a f*cking stupid place to put a bridge!")

[charliegolf]

A related article in New Scientist. This is a valuable source for instructors and those interested in surprise and startle management - preparing for the unknown, which is relevant to many situation is flying.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23431250-400-ready-for-anything-the-best-strategy-to-survive-a-disaster/
Subscription required for full article, but some selected quotes:
... unknown prejudices can dictate your actions.
... a checklist for the mind.
“No one gets smarter under stress. The question really is who gets dumb faster.”

A sort of parallel from the 80s... The instructor at Mountbatten used a quote which he said originated east of the iron curtain, alluding to the interrogator's short window after an ejection or a crash landing.

"An unusual experience engenders in a man the need to talk".

Not being an habitual, 'balls in the vice', person, I'd have thought interrogation qualifies as unusual too! :ok:

Can't recall the origin though- TM maybe?

CG

[Pontius Navigator]

CG, 10 years earlier, standing in the bar, growing puddle of water around this blanket wrapped figure holding a pint of beer.

Talk about talk, he couldn't stop. The medics were not best pleased.

[Pontius Navigator]

up [/B]the River Plym to return to St.Eval.

Doing the maths one can see you almost lost your father . . .

And 'which part was he occupying?'

[Haraka]

P.N.There were two on board apart from the pilot IIRC . Both , simultaneously, got out through the top fuselage hatch . Neither was exactly thin and they couldn't repeat the exercise later! The pilot had tried to fly between two of the bridge supports, removing the outer wings and float off of one side. The aircraft came eventually to rest on a mud bank the other side of the bridge. It was towed back to Mountbatten later in the morning with the passengers sitting on the "good" lower wing.
Senior had another incident with a Sea Otter when he slid on oil forward into the prop off the top of the fuselage whilst checking,though the prop disc, for oil leaks during an engine run. His right arm hit each blade of the three once and one twice as he was thrown up and off to once side , landing on the tarmac just beyond the wing tip. His arm was going to be amputated but a young Australian doc decided to "have a go at" saving it. Luckily he was successful and Snr. retained it (and with good movement) despite having an interesting double elbow! Sorry for the thread drift .

[Pontius Navigator]

Haraka, ooooo

[reynoldsno1]

I did a 3 day E&E in Germany in the early 70's as an officer cadet. Was captured and interrogated (KOSB's I think) - sack over the head, water poured over me, stripped to underwear and paraded through the local town (not sure where...). Can't remember how long I 'resisted', but I didn't regard it as particularly harsh - not as bad as the 'tear gas' experience.

[West Coast]

This is why you listen to your mother and wear clean underwear.

[thunderbird7]

"An unusual experience engenders in a man the need to talk".

I seem to remember it being a Pavlov quote, much beloved of R2I/CAACI instructors at Ashford. Can't find it on the internet though ;)

[reynoldsno1]

This is why you listen to your mother and wear clean underwear.
The oatmeal blocks in those 24hr ration packs ensured clean underwear as well ... it shall not come to pass.

[Pontius Navigator]

The oatmeal blocks in those 24hr ration packs ensured clean underwear as well ... it shall not come to pass.

High up in the Brecons, cold and wet, best porridge I have ever had.