Mayday call from a military aircraft

[haihio]

how do you do a standard military mayday call? Do you transmit three times mayday followed by three times the aircraft call sign and other info?
I think there is a slight difference from the civilian way of transmitting a mayday call - that is that aircraft call sign is only transmitted once.
Can you please confirm this ?

[Bob Viking]

It doesn't really matter what you say as long as you sound cool when the time comes.

Joking aside I've called it twice. Once for me and once for a wingman who was unable to transmit. I called Mayday three times followed by the call sign in full once. That probably isn't the official answer but as long as it is said clearly with any amplifying information (position, aircraft type etc as required) then you've done your job.

BV

[SASless]

I suppose how long one has to make the call has a lot to do with it.

We used the format of three Maydays followed by Aircraft Call Sign, location, nature of emergency, and actions or intended actions.

Sometimes it was a simple "Chalk 3...going down!".

Of course every formation in reception Range would be looking at their Chalk 3 aircraft wondering what the idiot was talking about....except for the one formation which had an aircraft in distress.

[just another jocky]

I was taught "Mayday, Mayday, callsign, Mayday", followed by pertinent details, though I don't think that is iaw the good yellow book.

[Molemot]

The first time I was in a Mayday situation, in a Tiger Moth, we didn't have a radio....(!)

[Pontius Navigator]

We were taught PATHASNIE IIRC the only essential being sufficient height and slow descent rate, especially if sending by morse.

With modern comms and the modern flash to bang time I suspect just a mayday will suffice with your position being deduced between waypoints and time.

[jayteeto]

Ditto,

"Is this a practice mayday or a real one?"

[haihio]

Thanks for the replies

[Lonewolf_50]

A current formal military training manual (https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/local/docs/pat-pubs/P-764.pdf)provides the following instructions (on page 7-19 of the link, USN primary flight training): Emergency voice reports will be made in the IDENTIFICATION, SITUATION, POSITION, AND INTENTION (ISPI) format. This parses into "MAYDAY! MAYDAY! MAYDAY! [Call sign], {what's wrong}, {location} {alt} {intentions} I find it of interest that they don't emphasize "time permitting" as the USN teaches "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate" but I do recall (all those years ago) teaching the "time permitting" bit for Mayday Calls when things are going wrong quickly rather than slowly. " In a non-radar environment (VFR, squawking 1200 ...) emergency reports of an immediate or serious nature are preceded by the word "MAYDAY." Repeating MAYDAY three times is the widely accepted method of clearing the frequency for an emergency voice report.
The example is obviously taken from the northern Florida training area ... An example of an emergency voice report in a non-radar environment is as follows:
"MAYDAY! MAYDAY! MAYDAY! [Call sign], engine failure, approximately 8 miles southeast of Evergreen at 2,500 feet, executing a controlled ejection between Castleberry and five lakes area."
Not sure if other military organizations use a different format.

[KPax]

Was taught on JATCC many moons ago, 'MAYDAYx3 callsign' our reply, Mayday callsign Squawk emergency your steer for location is, pass details when ready.

[SASless]

A US Army Huey Cobra was observed spinning wildly as it skidded down the runway in a most uncontrolled manner....to be asked by Tower....."Army 509 do you wish to declare an emergency?".

The reply in true US Army Warrant Officer Helicopter Pilot tone, wording and inflection was...."How in the Hell would I know....we ain't done crashing yet!".

Exact wording cleaned up quite a bit....but you get my point!

[FantomZorbin]

I once dealt with a "Practice Mayday, Practice Mayday, Practice Mayday, Yeovil Flag 01" ... handed over to Yeovilton who accepted it with great glee!!!

[Mogwi]

Had a few in years past and concur with the previous replies. Obviously it depends on the time available; my shortest was "Red 2 has been hit, might have to eject!"

Nice one was from a formation of Buccs(?) running in to break at Brawdy when the earth was cooling: - Sound of panting followed by: "Red 3 has just hit Red 2!!!" Followed by a slightly frustrated transmission from Red Ldr - " Oh Red 3, stop hitting Red 2!"

[PingDit]

As I remember, the RAF use (as has been mentioned): Position and Time, Heading, Speed, Altitude, Nature of emergency and Endurance. Keep passing that info until successfully acknowledged.
Civvies use NIPLE: Nature of emergency, Intentions, Position, Level/heading, Endurance/POB. Additional info should include callsign and type of aircraft.
Being ex-Kipper fleet, I've passed a few Maydays and ended up on S&R as a result!

[Pontius Navigator]

PingDit, I intentions IIRC, the whole when out of fuel or engines or icing and en route to somewhere very wet and cold.

And your's being Mayday Relay

[MPN11]

MAYDAY will usually get attention, everything else is beneficial.

My first 'MAYDAY' came over 243.0 when I was doing Approach at RAF Strubby in 1965/66, a few months out of Shawbury. It was a simple call, from a TF-100 pilot who had ejected somewhere east of Linconshire over the wet stuff. What he actually said, on his PLB on 243.0 in a deep Southern US drawl as he drifted down in his parachute, was "This is Wiggins, is anybody there?" Those words were engraved on my brain to this day!

I had just had a Dominie depart up the east-bound climbing lane, so I just vectored him down the CADF trace I had received from 'Wiggins', liaised with D&D, and let the experts get on with it. Wiggins was saved by a helicopter, sadly his colleague wasn't.*

But I did use his example as a lead-in to using proper Emergency calls, instead of saying "Err, Eastern, err, we have a problem, err, looking for recovery" when I was a visiting lecturer from Eastern Radar at their Instrument School. I spent a lot of time trying to explain there was no charge for emergency services, and Pan or Mayday (with details) makes things run much more smoothly and safely.

So, in essence, on either 121.5 or 243.0, just give ATC as much info as you can, ideally in the right format, but WTF ... we will sort it out! That's what we were paid for.


* Some years later, Capt. Wiggins was serving at Lakenheath on F-111s when I was at Eastern. Sadly I never got to meet him.

[pr00ne]

Eject, Eject, Eject!

Then gone.

Never flew single seaters...

[PingDit]

PN - Indeed they were Mayday Relays!

[ShyTorque]

I recall the Jet Provost had a radio system in that pressing either transmit switch resulted in both pilots' microphones being live.

An ATCO at Linton told me how he once heard what was obviously a JP student calling: "MAYDAY, MAYDAY....Practice MAYDAY!
Followed immediately by a QFI's voice on the same transmission saying "You f***ing idiot!"

[Pontius Navigator]

MPN, "er Houston, we have problem"

[MPN11]

MPN, "er Houston, we have problem"

"Err ... location, please, and nature of emergency?" :cool:

[SpazSinbad]

During my time onboard the reply from 'LittleF' (LCDR Flying) in FLYCO would have been:

"Roger - Standby" (brings a smile to me dial every time).

[just another jocky]

In the UK, there's little need to give position thanks to the excellent triangulation capability based down at Swanwick. Squawk 7700 and the lights & whistles will flash and there will a room full of folk concentrating solely on you.

[OvertHawk]

As I once found out when I accidentally set set 7700 instead of 7000 when changing frequencies and then left it a couple of minutes before calling the next frequency!!! :O

They were very nice about it actually.

[MPN11]

ATC tends to understand, and sympathise, with a case of 'fat finger'.

It's only when the Driver starts getting stroppy, and deying it was his fault, that we get a bit grumpy ;)

Most of us, on both sides of the fence, are human.

[orgASMic]

how do you do a standard military mayday call? Do you transmit three times mayday followed by three times the aircraft call sign and other info?
I think there is a slight difference from the civilian way of transmitting a mayday call - that is that aircraft call sign is only transmitted once.
Can you please confirm this ?


It has been RAF policy to use CAP 413 phraseology for a few years now:

From CAP 413:

Emergency Message
8.13 The emergency message shall contain the following information (time
and circumstance permitting) and, whenever possible, should be passed
in the order given:
1. ‘MAYDAY/MAYDAY/MAYDAY’ (or ‘PAN PAN/PAN PAN/PAN PAN’);
2. Name of the station addressed (when appropriate and time and
circumstances permitting);
3. Callsign;
4. Type of aircraft;
5. Nature of the emergency;
6. Intention of the person-in-command;
7. Present or last known position, flight level/altitude and heading;
8. Pilot qualifications (See Note 1), viz:
a) Student pilots (see Notes 2 and 3);
b) No Instrument Qualification;
c) IMC Rating;
d) Full Instrument Rating.
9. Any other useful information e.g. endurance remaining, number of
people on board (POB), aircraft colour/markings, any survival aids.

Notes:
5 Emergency messages by military pilots are different and are detailed
in ATM 3000 Manual of Military Air Traffic Management.


However, neither ATM 3000 nor MMATM give specific phraseology:

From MMATM, Chapter 4:

73. Action by the Pilot. The pilot is required to carry out the following actions:
a. Make a distress call as soon as possible and squawk emergency. The
call will include Air System type, altitude/height and position.
b. Advise ATC of initial intentions and request any assistance immediately
required such as determining position, heading to location of nearest suitable
Aerodrome or heading to reach nearest land.
c. Generally advise ATC of the progress of the recovery.
d. Advise ATC of any change in intentions.


AP 3456 CFS Manual of Flying says:

Emergency Transmissions
3. A transmission to be made in an emergency consists of two parts: the emergency call and the emergency message.
a. Emergency Call. Table 1 sets out the content of the radio telephony (R/T) Urgency and Distress calls.
Table 1 Emergency Calls
Degree of Emergency
Proword (R/T)
Distress
Urgency
"Mayday – Mayday – Mayday" Aircraft callsign (3 times)
"Pan Pan – Pan Pan – Pan Pan " Aircraft callsign (once)
b. Emergency Message. The emergency message should include as much of the following information as is relevant and as time permits:
(1) Callsign.
(2) Type of aircraft.
(3) Nature of emergency.
(4) Captain’s intentions and assistance required.
(5) Present or last known position, flight level/altitude and heading.
(6) Pilot qualifications (if relevant e.g. Student Pilot/Instrument Rating etc).
(7) Any other useful information (e.g. persons on board/endurance/aircraft colour etc).

In practice, I have received as an ATCO (and was taught as baby pilot) "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday, callsign, Mayday" (pause for acknowledgement) "PATHASATNI (position and time, heading and speed, aircraft type, nature of emergency, captain's intentions)."

[MPN11]

Time can, of course, be pressing when transimittin a MAYDAY.

"MAYDAy, Delta 42, ejecting 20 mikes south of ... ****, Nav, where are we?" may well be sufficient many cases! :)

The full message, as specified, is unlikely to be transmitted for real ... or am I wrong? ;)

[Pontius Navigator]

MPN, sadly you are correct as many recent cases have proven that with bombs, missiles, one in which they failed to even Aviate, and no doubt others unknown causes.

[MPN11]

yup, when Aviating ceases to be an option, and Navigating isn't part of the game any more, just Communicate while you have a few seconds left ... or indeed after, as Lt (then ?) Wiggins demonstrated.

Give the emergency services a clue! Stuff the full script ... in a MAYDAY scenario there isn't time for all that, usually.

[ShyTorque]

A distress call made by a certain helicopter crewman went along the lines of:

"HELP, HELP, we're crashing, HELP!"

But it worked.

[unclenelli]

Finningley was handling the downing of a Bulldog ivo Markham Moor in 1994/1995.
I took a call on switchboard from some muppet wanting to speak to the Supervisor - he was promptly (but politely) told to poke off and call back later. He then elevated his call to a FLASH, so I put him through.
If he'd have made this clear in the first instance, it would have saved him so much bollocks and fobbing off!!!

[unclenelli]

When I workied in D&D Prestwick, a small 4 seater called Scottish Civil with a Mayday.
They had set off from Wick to Varga (Faeroes- METAR RED & TAFing RED!!!) with 2:30 duration, 4:30 endurance and a Tailwind! (You can see where this is going!)

Before the 61N border they declared a PAN, but continued to head on to Varga!
At H/O to Rejkavik, they decided to head for Iceland (another 3hrs flight! - Maths!!!!)

I suggested to D&D Controller (as is the right of anybody in D&D to suggest a COA to the controller, but it is his right to choose the COA to follow), that they headed East (Crosswind, but No headwind) to Fair Isle (strip long enough to take a landing, but not long enough to Depart (NOT OUR PROBLEM!!!)

We could have had Sumburgh CG out to shadow them in and a quick pick-up if they fell short.

Crew elected for Iceland and swam the last mile!!!!!!!



You just can't tell some poeple!!!!

[unclenelli]

MPN11

As you stated, FIH is purely a guideline if you don't have enough time!
Get out as much as you can while you can, f**k protocol, just get it out there!

At Bastion, Sep 2006, I was one of the first to see the mIRC of XV230 report from the Harrier. Straight onto CCIS/RASDA to see the callsign/type/dep/dest/AAR. Once Minimise kicked in, so-called "Aviation Experts" on Sky News (our only remaining link to the outside world) started spouting Bollocks which upset ODI crews. Not to mention KIN families who at that stage probably thought they weren't involved. "The only aircraft to carry that many people is a C130 or a CH47"

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

As a student observer in the late 80's we used PATCASATNE (or something similar, memory is old and dull now). C for Course instead of H for Heading. Anyway...

We were at the "emergency declaration" phase of training and I do remember hearing on the radio. "Culdrose approach, err... Juliet 67 ...err...(and then in an excited voice) PATCASATNE, PATCASATNE, PATCASATNE". Followed shortly by what sounded like a thwack and the immortal words, still on transmit " I'm doing the best I can". :-)

Having dealt with a few from the other end as an ATCO, usually the first "MAYDAY" is enough to get everyone awake and searching for the transmitting aircraft. That one word alone certainly focuses the mind.

[Pure Pursuit]

MPN11

As you stated, FIH is purely a guideline if you don't have enough time!
Get out as much as you can while you can, f**k protocol, just get it out there!

At Bastion, Sep 2006, I was one of the first to see the mIRC of XV230 report from the Harrier. Straight onto CCIS/RASDA to see the callsign/type/dep/dest/AAR. Once Minimise kicked in, so-called "Aviation Experts" on Sky News (our only remaining link to the outside world) started spouting Bollocks which upset ODI crews. Not to mention KIN families who at that stage probably thought they weren't involved. "The only aircraft to carry that many people is a C130 or a CH47"

Not entirely sure what your second paragraph has to do with this thread...

I've heard a few PAN/Mayday/IFE calls in my time and they've never followed the prescribed format, especially in theatre.

I always told any students to just acknowledge an emergency straight away and then shut up. Your acknowledgement might be the last thing the crew hear before pulling the handle...

The format is just a guide.

[Pontius]

My favourite story is still that of an RN Sea King in the dip who suffered a double engine failure. With, basically, no time before they sploshed into the oggin the call was, allegedly, "Mayfukpanday". They were found :ok:

[D-IFF_ident]

Depends where the pilot is trained basically.

ICAO procedures require the subject aircraft to relay its callsign a minimum of once.

UK procedures require the callsign only once.

Australian procedures require the callsign 3 times.

USA seems happy with "Reach XXX declaring an emergency".

[SARF]

M.I.R.P. D.A.N.I.O. In the RNLI

Everything 3 times.
Mayday
Identification
Repeat !
Position

Distress. Well that's a given
Assistance required
Number on board. Remembering to count oneself
Intentions
Over, let's not forget radio discipline.

I appreciate the difference between 30 knots and 300 but I,d be going for
,mayday.. I.d. and position before anything else goes wrong

[ORAC]

Do they still teach Speechless procedure and the HEFOE code?

[Rick777]

Guess it's simpler in the states. Military or civil it's just call sign declaring an emergency. I've never done or heard of anyone declare a practice emergency.

[BEagle]

Military or civil it's just call sign declaring an emergency.

Why not just use the correct ICAO terminology? This American "Err, Center, err Sir, this is err, Cessna November Whatever, err, as of this time Sir, declaring we have, err, an emergency" is verbose and unnecessary.

Pilots 'trained' at Florida PPL puppy farms often have great difficulty in adopting simple CAP413 terminology when they return to the UK.

[ORAC]

I've never done or heard of anyone declare a practice emergency. Practice makes perfect, and engraining when not under pressure is a lot easier than doing it right for the fist time when the world is falling apart about you.

Does anyone else have the equivalent of the D&D Cell?

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

ATC tends to understand, and sympathise, with a case of 'fat finger'.

Just as well.

Heard many decades ago on Approach from a flamed-out MB326H (which had both the transmit and relight buttons on the throttle): "Light, ya f#%>er! Light, ya f#%>er! Light, ya f#%>er!"

[whowhenwhy]

Nope, the UK's D&D Cell is unique in the world. Proud to have been able to control there in some quite 'interesting' scenarios...

[FantomZorbin]

www
some quite 'interesting' scenarios...
Isn't that the case, we could have our own thread with all the curve-balls we were thrown!

[SpazSinbad]

Just as well.

Heard many decades ago on Approach from a flamed-out MB326H (which had both the transmit and relight buttons on the throttle): "Light, ya f#%>er! Light, ya f#%>er! Light, ya f#%>er!"
Was it this lad in 1970?

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/AndersonMacchiFlameOutPearce1970navyNewsFORUM.jpg~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/AndersonMacchiFlameOutPearce1970navyNewsFORUM.jpg.html)

[Fareastdriver]

I was blessed by the Gnome engine in my Whirlwind deciding to dismantle itself whilst I was low level in Shropshire. With my left hand pulling levers, switches and pressing fire buttons and my right hand on the transmit button whilst I pushed out a Mayday and searching for a convenient field to dead stick into air traffic at Tern Hill replied with 'Your steer is 305 degrees."

[H Peacock]

Do they still teach Speechless procedure and the HEFOE code?

Yep to both, but HEFOE now = HEFOM (Motor!)

[D-IFF_ident]

AAR Tanker crews still learn the HEFOE/M code, radio silent and accompanied letdown procedures in case they are ever used or needed by receiver aircraft.

[FAStoat]

I recall back in early 80s,we were taking a party of high fliers to the inaugural opening of the new Nigerian AirForce base at Makurdi.Having discussions enroute as to exactly where this was and a possible bearing off the "LG" VOR.Finding the correct viaduct on the River Bennue(From a faded memory) we duly arrived some hours before the Ceremony,and settled down to our KP Peanuts and brewed Lyons Tea,and awaited the MIG 21 Flypast.In front of us was a Private HS125(Ex Green Shield Stamps 600 Series,that normally only flew to Port Harcourt and back) run by an Ex Sqn Ldr Bob Blxxxxxxxxh.During the course of the Same Day Same Direction MIG 21 Four Ship,a voice on the RT was heard to call"Tiger 4 Tiger4 Tiger 4 You are on Fire:EEject Eject Eject GO!!!!!
No Kidding, this actually happened and another Mig 21 Tail ended up in the bush.In the ensuing confusion we were able to call ATC for start and taxi a bit quick,and duly launched successfully,after our "Big Oggas" emabarked just as quickly.Bob B also managed to leave, and later back in Lagos in the GRA Crew Room,much discussion was had as to "Who" and "What accent" had called the Emergency.Many stories were related later regarding this,but no one ever admitted any one responsible or whether said Jet did have a problem.,apochraphal or otherwise!!

[ORAC]

There was the occasion back in the 60/70s when, allegedly, the call was made on Guard, "Red 4 you're on fire, eject!"; followed by the ejection of the burning Red 4 - along with the pilot on another perfectly serviceable Red 4 elsewhere.

Allegedly it was this that led to the AP detailing the specified callsigns that were to be used per squadron.

[TEEEJ]

Haihio,

Sea Harrier shot down over Bosnia during 1994. Mayday at 1:36. Sounds like the wingman relaying the Mayday.

kFClZyF5TW4&feature=related

F-117 shot down over Yugoslavia during 1999. Mayday at 2:50.

XmqLyn4Q15U&feature=related

[ShyTorque]

There was the occasion back in the 60/70s when, allegedly, the call was made on Guard, "Red 4 you're on fire, eject!"; followed by the ejection of the burning Red 4 - along with the pilot on another perfectly serviceable Red 4 elsewhere.

Allegedly it was this that led to the AP detailing the specified callsigns that were to be used per squadron.

The Red Arrows had a double ejection a good few years ago (iirc, actually quadruple, two bangs per aircraft) when someone called that one Gnat was on fire but got the formation numbering wrong.

[taxydual]

Many years ago, in a Control Tower in North Yorkshire (very familiar to Danny42C), the oldest Pilot Officer in the ATC Branch was sat on Zone. He was bored, very bored. No traffic to speak to, a very quiet day.

The ATC Supervisor, a gentleman of mature years (and zero sense of humour), was sat at the Supervisors 2ft square desk, with his fountain pen in hand and bottle of Quink ink at the ready, writing the days lies into the Approach Room Log Book.

Our hero, still bored on Zone, with a twinkle in his eye, starts chatting to imaginary aircraft. In the middle of his chatter, he, in a very authoritative tone, orders "MAYDAY, WAIT".

Everything flew that day, the Supervisors table. the chair, the Logbook, the pen and the bottle of Quink.

It was the first time I saw a Pilot Officer being led out of an Approach Room, by his ear, being held by an inky hand.

Oh, how we laughed.

[FantomZorbin]

Brilliant! :D:D:D

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

I thought the line was: "Aircraft calling Mayday, wait - MATZ crosser go ahead with your details....." :}

[Herod]

I thought the line was: "Aircraft calling Mayday, wait - MATZ crosser go ahead with your details.

In my civilian career, I had occasion to put out three "mayday" calls. Two of them were while descending into Paris. Both of those calls resulted in French ATC giving out several normal instructions to other aircraft, followed eventually with "XXX123, say again"

[ShyTorque]

At the location of the school of military ATC Excellence in Shropshire, I was flying my first night circuit in a Wessex and for a change had been briefed that there would be no practice emergencies (a bit of a novelty on the Wessex course). However, as I turned downwind, the amber flashers and a hydraulics caption came on. The pressure dropped to zero. My instructor immediately confirmed it was a real failure. I carried out the immediate actions then put out a "PAN" call, stating I had hydraulics failure and required a running landing on the main runway (rather than using the "T" on the grass alongside. The tower controller told me to wait because he already had another aircraft returning to the circuit with a simulated single engine failure!

My instructor then transmitted "We didn't say it was a practice hydraulics failure!"

ATC: "Ooer....cleared to land on the runway!"

[MPN11]

That's what you get when the ATC School Instructors also do Live Tower :)

Although possibly not at night ... that would have been the genuine Tower Team, covering the MEDA aspect as well.

[SpazSinbad]

My favourite not me PanPanPan was a fellow student getting frazzled in the Pearce very crowded circuit one day, during our early Vampire solos in same. He left circuit to rejoin via break (recommended procedure) he sent out his PAN call because of severe aircraft vibrations as he continued inbound from initial. Advice was to slow the aircraft - raise the gear. All good. :}

[ShyTorque]

I know of a similar episode at Church Fenton, with a Jet Provost who had cleared the circuit for a rejoin via a run and break.

The radio call went along the lines of "PAN, PAN, PAN, severe engine vibration.....pip pip pip"!

The "pip, pip, pip" suffix was transmitted automatically by the aircraft's r/t system which indicated that the gear was down and locked....and so were the flaps.

He later went helicopters.... Gear down and welded.

[chevvron]

Civil aircraft have their 'funnies as well.
Farnborough LARS West sector.
Aircraft: Farnborough, G-LY engine failure north of Basingstoke.
Me: G-LY confirm this is a practice?
Aircraft: negative,Mayday mayday mayday.

[MFC_Fly]

Some years ago I was asked to put out a Practice PAN on 121.5 for controller training at some point along my route through the Highlands. Just after making a turn I put out the call with an 'unsure of position' situation. When asked when I last knew where I was I replied "just turned at Aviemore 2 minutes ago". "And you are unsure of your position?" came the reply... "Negative, this is for your training, not mine", "Roger, your position is..." :E

[MPN11]

I love it!! It's a 2-way street, and we all need to be kept on the ball.

[JMP6]

It doesn't really matter what you say as long as you sound cool when the time comes.

BV

Bravo Bob ☺